17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[EvonRose]

I said I want him ARRESTED.
The odds that Zimmerman is convicted by a jury of his peers in FLA, ( i.e., predominantly WHITE) are low.

It's unreal that ANYONE could blow a hole through an unarmed teenager's chest whom YOU were following in the first place, and you the shooter admit to police you murdered him and still NOT BE ARRESTED.

If Zimmerman wasn't racially profiling Trayvon, why the fuck was that asshole following him?? Why was he threatening?? What was so 'menacing' about a teenager walking back home on a candy run from the convenience store??

OMK, this is a murder case, not some black kid arrested under sketchy circumstances.

What this case is about and the reason why people are pissed off is the constant, un-ending racial profiling against minorities, in most cases unjustified, institutional racism, since no BLACK MAN could murder a 'suspicious' looking white teen and claim self-defense and not be arrested on the spot, and the most idiotic law in the country courtesy of the NRA, the SYG law.

The reason I don't care too much that NBC doctored a portion of ZImmerman's 911 call is because it was replayed UNEDITED on CBS/ABC/CNN/MSNBC.
If NBC Network News fucked it up, it doesn't change the facts of that tape. Besides there are other recordings of Zimmerman calling 911 prior where he volunteers the race of the person he's watching.
Zimmerman said it looked like Trayvon was on drugs and implied he had a weapon tucked in his waistband. WTF??

The dude should be locked up for being a delusional psychopath.

THe only people who think the pro Trayvon activists want Zimmerman to be CONVICTED are the talking heads on FAUX News.
At every rally and protest, the only demand has been for justice and Zimmerman's arrest.


Why is it that conservatives have latched on to the murder of an innocent Black teen and tried to make it something political??

That's sick.

i have been with you since your first post, I agree 100 %

You stating he is a psychopath has been an argument by many, saying because he suffered post traumatic stress disorder he created this delusional world Where he is suppose to be this mighty protector and treyvon was this suspicious thug.

Zimmerman's defenses sucks, he said he thought treyvon was suspicious because he says this loon with a hood looks suspicious?

Bu then didn't he say it was raining? and cold? So why is it bad for a kid to be walking with a sweater to keep himself warm and a hood to keep him dry?

You can't look at someone with a hood, and a person of race and just assume they're bad, that's wrong!

On my knees, zimmerman never saw treyvon do anything bad, He pursued and created the situation because he is a bit mentally unstable, Treyvon never hit him, never even for self defense. This to me seems like he easily went to treyvon since there is no evidence of treyvon fighting or hitting Zimmerman.

I am a minority too, however so is Zimmerman, he's not white. I don't think he's a white man being racist, i think he was a latino who was mentally unstable who racially profiled a 17 year old minority.

Everyone is going to have a view on this differently, But you have to look at it in the view of the minority involved int his case, and it's understandable to all degrees, No one wants that uncertain feeling of walking down a steet getting shot and having no justice.

[robertlouis]

The US was founded by the gun. US foreign policy is conducted from behind the gun (you may recall the term gunboat diplomacy was created to describe the US approach to Japan in the late 19th century and based on an actual incident). Americans are accustomed to leading with the gun. Rather than mandate against guns I'd be inclined to force every American to carry a gun - eventually they'll figure it out. Remember the Spartans? How long did their martial society last?

I'm not sure what the Canadian stance is - likely one closer to English or should I say Scottish sensibilities. We have a conservative government who at one point had a racist (Stockwell Day) as Minister of Public Safety. The majority in this country will suffer any kind of injustice as long as the social order remains in tact.....isn't that the Scottish thing!?

It will be interesting to read what happens when our US friends re-enter this debate!

You're absolutely spot on in your analysis, although forcing people to caary a gun would be interesting..... as long as you could watch from a safe distance. Spartan society imploded because of their hideous treatment of their slave class, the healots, and their overwhelming emphasis of maleness to the exclusion of all else. Despite all the admiration for their undoubted courage and military prowess their society operated pretty much in a proto-fascist way - check Mussolini's inspirations.

As to the English/Scottish thing, we should probably take that off-line. I suspect that what you describe as that instinct for preservation of the social order is largely true, but the reassertion of a distinctive Scottish political sensibility in the wake of the Thatcher years indicates that Scots' adherence to that aim is fiercer and can indeed only be achieved by ultimate separation from England. The union of the parliaments and the resultant formation of the United Kingdom in the early 18th century was very much a matter of economic necessity for Scotland, brought about by highly protective, not to say vindictive, English economic policy. It all sounds horribly familiar!

[EvonRose]

The US was founded by the gun. US foreign policy is conducted from behind the gun (you may recall the term gunboat diplomacy was created to describe the US approach to Japan in the late 19th century and based on an actual incident). Americans are accustomed to leading with the gun. Rather than mandate against guns I'd be inclined to force every American to carry a gun - eventually they'll figure it out. Remember the Spartans? How long did their martial society last?

I'm not sure what the Canadian stance is - likely one closer to English or should I say Scottish sensibilities. We have a conservative government who at one point had a racist (Stockwell Day) as Minister of Public Safety. The majority in this country will suffer any kind of injustice as long as the social order remains in tact.....isn't that the Scottish thing!?

I would rather face a man with a knife, or a fight a person physically than to face a lunatic with a gun to my head.... Just saying.

[runningdownthatdream]

Core US practices aren't far removed from what the Spartans. The specifics may be different but on a macro level it's a similar mentality. And if you've read the stats about the US accounting for 25% of the worlds prison population I think you'll understand they are not far removed from being a fascist society. Law after law created to restrict the liberties of people and resulting in more and more people imprisoned. Of course some like the resident 1%er here supports that approach.

I understand the Scots....I think. They are practical people and will do what needs to be done at all costs even at suppressing others. I come from a former British colony....the mark of the Scots were everywhere. They built the roads and the docks and the buildings that housed the colonizers. Once they accepted their role within the UK they did a damn good job of enforcing English rule around the world!

[runningdownthatdream]

I would rather face a man with a knife, or a fight a person physically than to face a lunatic with a gun to my head.... Just saying.

That's why you should get your own gun...........

I see you point to a certain extent but I believe that we must deal with the root cause of violence not with semantics such as what weapon is used to commit the violence. I know - I've been accused of being violent

[EvonRose]

That's why you should get your own gun...........

I see you point to a certain extent but I believe that we must deal with the root cause of violence not with semantics such as what weapon is used to commit the violence. I know - I've been accused of being violent

Okay What if one day I go crazy and start shooting in a school or a mall and one or several of this people happen to be either one or several people in your family unarmed? What then? I go to jail but how is that bringing anyone to life?

[robertlouis]

Core US practices aren't far removed from what the Spartans. The specifics may be different but on a macro level it's a similar mentality. And if you've read the stats about the US accounting for 25% of the worlds prison population I think you'll understand they are not far removed from being a fascist society. Law after law created to restrict the liberties of people and resulting in more and more people imprisoned. Of course some like the resident 1%er here supports that approach.

I understand the Scots....I think. They are practical people and will do what needs to be done at all costs even at suppressing others. I come from a former British colony....the mark of the Scots were everywhere. They built the roads and the docks and the buildings that housed the colonizers. Once they accepted their role within the UK they did a damn good job of enforcing English rule around the world!

Stand by for incoming from the usual suspect(s) lol!

Canada is (I stand to be corrected) largely the product of two exploring and colonising people, the French and the Scots, with a significant sprinkling of empire loyalists after the American revolution. The French arrived first and created a pragmatic trading empire, until they were ethnically cleansed by the British after the Seven Years War. The Scots came largely by default, Highlanders expelled by rapacious landlords during the Clearances in the wake of Culloden, but between them they created a unique society with a unique set of values which continue to make Canada one of the most admired countries in the world.

However, many Scots, myself among them, recognise Scotland as very much England's last colony. Their rule has been largely benign, but we don't want to risk another tidal wave of unnecessary and inappropriate Thatcherism, hence the renewed drive towards independence. As Renton memorably said in Trainspotting, we were colonised by wankers, so what does that make us?

[runningdownthatdream]

Okay What if one day I go crazy and start shooting in a school or a mall and one or several of this people happen to be either one or several people in your family unarmed? What then? I go to jail but how is that bringing anyone to life?

Shit happens. If I got my hands on you after you did that then you'd never do it again.

You could also just as likely run around the mall with a butcher knife stabbing people to death. You could be the Chinese guy on the Greyhound bus in Alberta who stabbed a man to death and ate parts of him while the cowards fled and watched from outside. You could be the guy in Toronto who pulled a knife on a streetcar and started several people or the other one who pushed a girl onto the subway tracks. We can't protect us from ourselves by restricting access to weapons. There are deviants everywhere and they will always find a way to realize their deviant behaviour.

[robertlouis]

Shit happens. If I got my hands on you after you did that then you'd never do it again.

You could also just as likely run around the mall with a butcher knife stabbing people to death. You could be the Chinese guy on the Greyhound bus in Alberta who stabbed a man to death and ate parts of him while the cowards fled and watched from outside. You could be the guy in Toronto who pulled a knife on a streetcar and started several people or the other one who pushed a girl onto the subway tracks. We can't protect us from ourselves by restricting access to weapons. There are deviants everywhere and they will always find a way to realize their deviant behaviour.

Don't disagree, but surely adding relatively easy access to firearms just makes the situation worse? What you said below in terms of the macro realities of the situation in the US is true, but at a practical and personal level, something needs to be done to curtail the circumstances which allow this kind of thing to happen all too often.

[runningdownthatdream]

Stand by for incoming from the usual suspect(s) lol!

Canada is (I stand to be corrected) largely the product of two exploring and colonising people, the French and the Scots, with a significant sprinkling of empire loyalists after the American revolution. The French arrived first and created a pragmatic trading empire, until they were ethnically cleansed by the British after the Seven Years War. The Scots came largely by default, Highlanders expelled by rapacious landlords during the Clearances in the wake of Culloden, but between them they created a unique society with a unique set of values which continue to make Canada one of the most admired countries in the world.

However, many Scots, myself among them, recognise Scotland as very much England's last colony. Their rule has been largely benign, but we don't want to risk another tidal wave of unnecessary and inappropriate Thatcherism, hence the renewed drive towards independence. As Renton memorably said in Trainspotting, we were colonised by wankers, so what does that make us?

I see you've drunk the Koolaid on Canada...incidentally I came from the country that is responsible for that phrase 'drinking the Koolaid' although it was an American that was responsible for that crime.

Canada was founded mainly by the French who were content to exploit their relations with the native people in what is generally called Eastern Canada (Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island and some might include eastern Manitoba too) to supply the European rage for beaver fur. The French monarchy took a mostly laissez faire attitude to the region until the Napoleonic Wars. The Scots came after the fall of New France (you must go to Quebec some day and stand on the Plains of Abraham as that battle was arguably the one with the most profound long term impact on North America) and helped define and build Canada. The first PM was a Scotsman!

I wouldn't say the French experienced ethnic cleansing here - that's a lie that's been repeated for too long. In fact the English allowed far far greater freedoms to the French here than they did to other conquered lands - compare to what happened to Africa or India or even later the Boers - and you'll see. The French were allowed to continue practicing most of their way of life including language, religion, etc. Anyways we've hijacked the thread so I'll quit now!