17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[onmyknees]

I'm not really getting the hate on Gio, or even on his remarks. Some of you have made the argument that there's a rush to judgment going on here, and that's fine. But let's not be blind to the fact that we live in a culture that encourages us to rush to judgment. I'm not even going to begin to list any examples, but all one has to do is think for 10 seconds and examples will come flooding into your mind. This is a porn/TS forum that people come onto to have fun, discuss shit, etc. It's not some legal theory forum for serious individuals. Hung Angels is part of pop culture, and I would say is representative of pop culture in many ways. When you accuse "the media" for this firestorm around the Trayvon killing, your target is far too narrow. It's our entire culture that brings these things about... not just various reporting outfits that you happen not to like.

You're confusing hate with disagreement....if you were referring to me. I know you didn't mean "hate" in the literal sense, but I'm reactionary to that word since it's used many times as a political tool. I don't hate GH....the dude's fine. Probably a stand up guy IRL. I can absolutely understand his and others anger, and pain, and the fact this has gone on for weeks with no signs of a resolution. That's all fair...we all see things from a different prism. But it may have more to do with a bungled investigation, and an incompetent local PD rather than looking out for a white/Peruvian dude. I personally don't think the omni present race hustlers help the situation, but rather enflame it even more, but that's something we're never going to agree on. Far be it for me to appoint "spokesman" for the black community, but you want to pour 93 octane on smoldering embers....call in the crew and you'll get your wish.

My point from the beginning is these things almost NEVER are quite what they seem initially, and take time so sort out. Now that the dividing lines have been clearly drawn...what happens now if the investigation finds neither man knew the intent of the other.....as young Mr. Martin was being followed by Zimmerman, he may have had no idea why....and why should he? He was doing nothing wrong talking to his girlfriend on the phone. Zimmerman had no idea Martin had no illegal intent. Suppose we learn that at some point Mr. Martin out or a sense of self protection,understandably turns and physically confronts Zimmerman pushing him to the ground and begins to beat him. Zimmerman's state of mind in an instant now becomes what Martin's was just several minutes previous.....self protection. Tragic, profoundly sad, probably avoidable,..............but criminal? We'll see. But at that point it becomes irrelevant because some have invested so much in the outcome before all the facts are known, that they can't walk it back from their entrenched position......thus another sad incident in race relations.

And now I'm out.....because you're right...this is a porn forum.

[trish]

You're right Martin, that racism is an issue here, but I see the "stand your ground" laws as main issue. Gun crime tripled in Florida since the inception of their "stand your ground" law. Of course it's generally blacks dudes getting shot, 'cause they're so fucking fearsome.

In a parallel universe Zimmerman accosts Trayvon, Trayvon turns to run but Zimmerman catches him by the arm; a struggle ensues...Zimmerman's gun goes off and Zimmerman dies. Trayvon, a young black man in a hoodie, is found by the police standing over the dead body; the street light dancing in the expanding pool of blood. What happens next? The reader can fill in the details. Does Trayvon go to jail? Is he brow-beating into confessing to second degree murder? Or does Trayvon get to invoke the "I thought my life was in danger" law? Was the law even meant for someone like Trayvon? Did the law even have any real meaning other than just another NRA lobbying effort for politicians to endorse to prove their second amendment bona fides and get themselves re-elected?

[trish]

In another alternate universe, it's Trayvon who is carrying a concealed semi-automatic. He always takes it with him when he visits his friends in gated-communities. There's a lot for a young black man to fear in such places, given the current binge of "stand you ground laws." In this universe Trayvon is accosted by Zimmerman, the self-appointed community watch guardian, and Trayvon turns to avoid a confrontation. But Zimmerman insists on confronting the young man. In this world Zimmerman dies by Trayvon's gun; Zimmerman doesn't have any...he has a pack of skittles. Trayvon truthfully confesses he was afraid for his life. He would like to invoke the "stand you ground" law. In this universe are the bigots so circumspect and unsure about what really happened?

[Silcc69]

here is another article i found, makes you wonder


http://www.examiner.com/charleston-c...trayvon-martin

Last weekend in the city of Chicago alone, gangbangers slaughtered ten people and wounded another forty. The youngest fatality is only six years old. The youngest person wounded is only one-year-old. Many of the victim were pedestrians sprayed with bullets in drive by shootings. The national news has said nothing about this.

So why does one shooting in Florida warrant weeks of national news? Why has there been thousands of articles a day, for the last four days, about one single shooting?

Almost all of the news items about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin contains a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and a complete absence of some of the most relevant details. Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda.


Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read "George ZImmerman, a white man," or "shoot by a white man." Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to artificially create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is "mostly white." This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.

All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.

The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after, thought this was important.

In fact the Miami Herald goes on to interview neighbor, Ibrahim Rashada, who is black. Rashada ​confirms that there has been a lot of crime in the neighborhood and indicates to the reporter that the perpetrators are usually black.

The media also characterizes Trayvon as a "model student." In fact, he under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night. A laywer for Trayvon's family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.

Now that you know the suppressed facts of the case, you can for form a better more balanced opinion. Maybe you still think Zimmerman was wrong to pull the trigger. However, I think you will come to the conclusion that the "mainstream" clearly is pushing an agenda. Even when they have to grossly alter and adjust a story to fit that agenda.

LOL that writer is so full of shit.

Very few include that he was a towering 6'2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda.

Love how this guy fails to mention that he was 140lbs too. IDK of any towering football player that is 140lbs.

[martin48]

You're right Martin, that racism is an issue here, but I see the "stand your ground" laws as main issue. Gun crime tripled in Florida since the inception of their "stand your ground" law. Of course it's generally blacks dudes getting shot, 'cause they're so fucking fearsome.

In a parallel universe Zimmerman accosts Trayvon, Trayvon turns to run but Zimmerman catches him by the arm; a struggle ensues...Zimmerman's gun goes off and Zimmerman dies. Trayvon, a young black man in a hoodie, is found by the police standing over the dead body; the street light dancing in the expanding pool of blood. What happens next? The reader can fill in the details. Does Trayvon go to jail? Is he brow-beating into confessing to second degree murder? Or does Trayvon get to invoke the "I thought my life was in danger" law? Was the law even meant for someone like Trayvon? Did the law even have any real meaning other than just another NRA lobbying effort for politicians to endorse to prove their second amendment bona fides and get themselves re-elected?

Well, if you weren't so keen to carry weapons, make it so damn easy to obtain them, make a legal system so punitive ("three strikes and you're out") that as a petty criminal I don't care a shit what happens, etc, etc - then these situations wouldn't occur. But such thinking regards at least two steps, a bit of logic and acceptance of facts! Let's find the parallel universe.

[mildcigar_2001]

Well, if you weren't so keen to carry weapons, make it so damn easy to obtain them, make a legal system so punitive ("three strikes and you're out") that as a petty criminal I don't care a shit what happens, etc, etc - then these situations wouldn't occur. But such thinking regards at least two steps, a bit of logic and acceptance of facts! Let's find the parallel universe.

Well, you should move to Chicago which has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the country. I guess Chicago must be the safest city in America. In reality we know that Chicago has one of the highest homicide rates in the U.S., as opposed to any number of cities that allow thier citizens to defend themselves. Just because someone believes in second ammendment rights does not mean they go around and kill blacks. However, black criminals as well as white criminals should be wary.

[trish]

Just because someone believes in second ammendment rights does not mean they go around and kill blacks.

No one is making that claim. I endorse the second amendment. But it doesn't follow that I should endorse "stand your ground" laws.

Nor am I claiming a direct cause and effect between gun regulation and gun crime. There are hundreds of factors that impinge on any given city's rate of gun related crime, including the poverty rate, amount of corruption in the legal system, willingness to enforce and to support the enforcement of the laws that are on the books etc. etc. There is however a direct relationship between what crimes you can hope to prosecute a criminal for and the crimes that are on the books. Al Capone was jailed for tax evasion and not the murders that he ordered. If it's too expensive and impossible to convict a murderer, then put him in jail for carrying a concealed weapon...oh can't do that...because too many little boys want to carry their toys with them where ever they go and not suffer of embarrassment of carrying them out in the open.

[south ov da border]

if the second goes, so goes any semblance of freedomin this country.

I live in the area, and Sanford is a corrupt city, officials and police. The fact that this happened there is making it more of an issue because it is an environment ripe for something like this.

But I do think Obama and crew since they personalized this situation are going to aim for more gun restrictions.

BTW that shoot first law is strictly subjective. I know people who defended themselves and got hit with manslaughter or 2nd degree charges. It's not as cut and dry as people think...

[robertlouis]

I know it's not possible to turn the clock back and that gun ownership sadly remains central to many American lives, but surely when a guy like Zimmerman has open access to firearms and is then bolstered by the "stand your ground" laws and a tragedy like this ensues there needs to be at the very least a long hard look at the concept of SYG?

Speaking from the UK perspective, and yes, we do have the strongest gun control laws in the world, I find it simply unbelievable that the man who fired the gun wasn't arrested. Speculation over what happened and the rush to premature judgement in the absence of agreed facts is one thing, but surely the failure of the local police to take appropriate action in the immediate aftermath is what requires the greatest scrutiny at this juncture?

[Silcc69]

I know it's not possible to turn the clock back and that gun ownership sadly remains central to many American lives, but surely when a guy like Zimmerman has open access to firearms and is then bolstered by the "stand your ground" laws and a tragedy like this ensues there needs to be at the very least a long hard look at the concept of SYG?

Speaking from the UK perspective, and yes, we do have the strongest gun control laws in the world, I find it simply unbelievable that the man who fired the gun wasn't arrested. Speculation over what happened and the rush to premature judgement in the absence of agreed facts is one thing, but surely the failure of the local police to take appropriate action in the immediate aftermath is what requires the greatest scrutiny at this juncture?

Even Jeb Bush the governor who implemented the SYG law said that it didn't apply to Zimmerman.