Shemales are just men... don't take my word for it

[dafame]

Though we have fundamentally distinct approaches, I think both of our perspectives are humane and respectful. Thank you for your considered responses to my interrogatives.

What still puzzles me is...



It is of course possible to distinguish you from every other male on the planet. So, for example, there is a difference between you and Steven Colbert, and that difference doesn’t come down to Y’s and X’s...indeed it can’t come down to Y’s and X’s because you’re both genetically male. Now if there’s a difference between you and Chaz Bono that doesn’t come down to Y’s and X’s isn’t it the same sort of difference that you have with Steven Colbert? I mean in that neither difference has anything to do with Y’s and X’s. Symmetrically, if I have a difference with Beyonce that doesn’t depend on Y’s and X’s, then isn’t that the same sort of difference that you have with Steven Colbert? How does such a difference make me something other than a women. Does your difference with Steven Colbert make you something other than a man?

Again, let me say that you generally strike me as someone who is being thoughtful and respectful. The language of “self-delusion” therefore seem incongruous. Are you sure that what you call “self-delusion” isn’t just a different use of language? Don’t many people, especially on these boards, use the term “woman” in such a way that it readily accommodates transgender women? Don’t we use the pronoun “she” to refer to a transgender woman? Why wouldn’t we hope that in the near future the general usage of “woman” and “she” extends the usage that we've adopted here? Why would you want to adopt a usage that accentuates the difference between me and any other woman? Are the distinctions you see which don’t depend on those Y’s and X’s all that important? Can I never be introduced as a woman? Must I always be introduced as a transgender woman? Am I delusional to include myself in the category woman? Or am I just adopting a simple way of speaking? The human race is a continuum of genders. We all recognize that. Yet we divide ourselves into men and women. Why am I not allowed to chose a side and have others respect my choice? Choosing to call myself a woman is not self-delusion. It's simply a choice. Albeit, a choice that may have been compelled by deep and only partly understood motivations, some of them perhaps physiological and some of them not.

Thanks Trish. I'm thanking you for thoughtfully approaching this conversation as well and looking at is for what it is open dialog between two people sharing there views. Wish I could say the same about some of the other people that have posted in response but there somewhat juvinille approach tells me that much of how they were coming at me had more to do with them being kiss asses to the girls on this forum and feeling the need to "defend their honor' then it did them actually being offended. That's not to say that they don't actually believe what their saying.

With that said I'm not sure if you read my last post in its entirety. Only reason I say that is because I think it answers some of the questions you just posed.

First let me say that I only used the term "self-delusional" because someone else used it and at the time it seemed fitting in describing a particular feeling. There probably is a better term and I meant no harm.

You make many valid points. Of course "I" use the pronoun "she" when describing a transsexual. Of course "I" refer to you as women because that's how you see yourselves, that's the way you carry yourselves, and consequently I wouldn't treat you any other way. Of course you have the right to choose a side and no calling yourself a woman does not make you "self-delusional".

But to think that there is absolutely nothing that seperates you from a genetic born woman is to me not facing and accepting the reality of the situation. You are a woman but with an asterisk so to speak. This asterisk only signifies the fact that although you are a woman "through and through" you're not "female", you're transgendered.

Only reason I point this out Trish is because it seems to be so many people that want to live a fantasy in order to do this, and I'm talking on both the side of the girls and the guys. It's not necessary because to me transsexuality is something to be proud of and celebrated. Being a transsexual woman as apposed to a genetic born "female" women makes you no less woman.

[trish]

We're almost there, I think...except for that damn asterisk. Here's why. An asterisk doesn't conjure up the image of a subclass, but rather a parallel class. Let's just agree to call us all woman. Agree that there are wide variations within the category. That one subcategory is women who have transitioned.

BTW I deleted a paragraph from the last post, because my argument was based on a misunderstanding of what you said.

Thanks for the conversation. I gonna go now and relax for while.

[Odelay]

I worry about Ellery sometimes, just saying.

She self medicates a lot..hasn't really been to a gender identity specialist.

So as beautiful as she is, she hasn't exactly taken time to understand whats going on inside of her.

Well, she has one thing going for her... she stays away from this board. I wouldn't wish for any confused transsexual to wander into this morass.

[dafame]

We're almost there, I think...except for that damn asterisk.

Ok good point on the asterisk..lol.. Again not the best choice of a word but I think you understand the general premise behind what I'm saying.

Hey I appreciate this conversation we've had and I have new found insight as a result of the exchanges I've had with you. I consider you an ally. Talk to you later.

[Erika1487]

It has been claimed there’s nothing wrong with being what we were meant to be. But who meant me to be what I am? God? That’s a defunct idea. The Universe? Like the universe designed the things within it to serve a function and have a meaning. Biology? Chance? At conception my mother contributed an X chromosome and my father a Y. Did Chance “want” me to be a male, or was it just chance that I’m genetically male? Did Nature mean me to be a man in addition to being male? Does society? Is there really nothing at all wrong with being what society means you to be? So because I'm genetically male, does society mean[] me to be, want[] me to be a man? To function within the norms and customs as a man? I know there’s a very vocal segment of narrow minded bigots who do? Fuck them. And fuck their self-appointed spokespersons on this board. Can we not be self-determined and take responsibility for ourselves? Can we not be what we mean ourselves to be? Can we not please expect the respect that self-determination requires?

^ 100%

[Paladin]

That is one confused t-girl, but a real pretty one at the same time...

[KittyPride]

That is one confused t-girl, but a real pretty one at the same time...

She kind of reminds me of myself...

Lol yes well... sex change is a fake vagina... its a fact lol...
I dont agree that she is a man...

She is underweight through..

And she is right...
We are a mixture of both... It does not make us men...

It makes us TS

She does not seem confused... she is just dealing with the fact that
she never will be a real woman...

nice girl... she at least is not bullshitting herself like most TS do
this will give her the strength to go on...

Despite the facts... she is happy transitioning...
And she will be extremely easy on her envirement...

She must only be aware lol.... that not all people are going to agree
with her, that she is a man LOL

She'll get used to that when time goes on...

I actually instantly love a Tgirl like this....could be one of my friends...

unlike many! lol


maybe the europian climate makes us icecold realists

This is the kind of girl that is able to live in reality and still transition and being happy with what she is...
But she will get a lot of bad comments from other TS, coz it takes some guts to do what she does...

To be able to self reflect as she does...
It also makes her very feminine on the inside...

So Nicole and Evonrose...
Learn something from this girl

You might just upgrade yourself from fulltime CD to woman lol

[KittyPride]

Why do people insist on being so deep in their defense of this shit..lol.. Male vs Female is what we're talking about bruh. No need to be so technical because again you're reinforcing this false belief in these girls which is by far the worse part about them. I wish people would stop doing that but I realize also that just as many of them need that false sense of identity, so do many of us men in dealing with them.

Either end you're on its a complicated situation but it would be a lot simpler if people learned to love themselves for who they are rather than what they've managed to convince themselves they are or convinced themselves that the person they love or find an attraction to is.

Hi Dafame!!

In a way..I can see where you are coming from and I agree... I would love to date someone like you lol. Its because you are not fooling yourself... which is important. Only thing is: the assumption you make that a Tgirl is confusing herself when she identifies as a woman, thats where you go wrong.

Its also pretty obvious that when you feel like a woman, think like a woman (like this girl obviously does), that most likely, she is just that.
Might be a bit of a dissapointment though, to find out she isn't a man, if thats what you are after lol.

A lot of Tlovers are very dissapointed to find femininity in Tgirls...I think they either want their best friend who watches sports and drinks beer to have breasts and blond hair and the same sex drive as they do lol....
Or they are into the role reversal thing...

A true feminine TS does not really fit that picture unfortunately lol

[dafame]

Hi Dafame!!

In a way..I can see where you are coming from and I agree... I would love to date someone like you lol. Its because you are not fooling yourself... which is important. Only thing is: the assumption you make that a Tgirl is confusing herself when she identifies as a woman, thats where you go wrong.

Its also pretty obvious that when you feel like a woman, think like a woman (like this girl obviously does), that most likely, she is just that.
Might be a bit of a dissapointment though, to find out she isn't a man, if thats what you are after lol.

A lot of Tlovers are very dissapointed to find femininity in Tgirls...I think they either want their best friend who watches sports and drinks beer to have breasts and blond hair and the same sex drive as they do lol....
Or they are into the role reversal thing...

A true feminine TS does not really fit that picture unfortunately lol

KittyPride, although the general premise of what I'm saying remains in tact, I have evolved a bit on the subject just from some of the conversations I've had here and with a friend of mine outside of this forum. Self-delusional was a term that I ran with from someone else here and that was a mistake because it's not truly representive of how I feel and is a rather harsh expression of that. I recant that.

I think some of my word were misplaced and it didn't reflect truly what I was trying to say and if you go back and read some of the more recent exchanges with Trish you'll have a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

Thanks for your reply.

[yosi]

Choosing to call myself a woman is not self-delusion. It's simply a choice.
.

it's also a simple choice to choose to ignore those who try to tell you that they know better than you who you are, inspite the fact that they never met you.

trying to tag poeple whom they never met IS self-delusion.