Climate change could mean the extinction of our species

[trish]

... as everyone else, they only look out for their own self interests of greed and money.

Seems to me you overstate your case. Sure everybody looks after their own interests sometimes, but often taking care not to tread on another person's interests doesn't require an extraordinary diversion from your own. People are very often happy to be accommodating (unless their philosophy and political ideology predisposes them against it). Indeed, I find people generally can be very self-sacrificing when the call arises.

[Faldur]

Copenhagen's Climate Summit recorded 140 private planes, and 1,200 limousines, (42 had to be driven in from 150 miles away). How many hybrid or electric vehicles? 5, yup just 5.

Looks like some serious self-sacrificing going on. Do as I say, not as I do.

[trish]

As any Faldur can see, Yvonne's remarks weren't specific to hippies or attendees of the Copenhagen Climate Summit. So why would you assume mine were?

So you think you're going to have a major world wide conference and people are going to swim, walk or bicycle to it from all corners of the world? Suppose you had attended and managed to get a motel reservation 15 miles from the conference center, would you be walking in the Copenhagen weather (it wasn't pleasant that week) to the talks or would you being taking the motel "limo" (as they are often called)?

But that's an aside. My point remains, namely

Sure everybody looks after their own interests sometimes, but often taking care not to tread on another person's interests doesn't require an extraordinary diversion from your own. People are very often happy to be accommodating (unless their philosophy and political ideology predisposes them against it). Indeed, I find people generally can be very self-sacrificing when the call arises.

[Stavros]

I have to sympathise with your point Faldur, and that was a major summit, the costs involved in the Conference of the Parties (aka COPS), the second-level meetings which are charged by the Summits with 'hammering out the details of policy' must also be hiugely wasteful of precious resources.

One of the by-products of international policy making is an addiction to conferences and Summits; it may even be called bread and circuses for all I know. Climate Change since Rio has taken the place that HIV/AIDS used to take, even though real decision-making is not done at Summits but in the less publicised talks that take place elsewhere. It starts with an issue with a major impact on policy which means a policy involving a LOT of money- HIV/AIDs; Climate Change to take the two obvious recent examples; then you have the academic journals which are promoted from within a university (to boost its academic ratings), you have the seminars and and the colloquia, but its when the politicians get involved that big bucks kick in because none of these people stay in 4-star hotels, and business class is for the secretaries. Usually, govt and corporations have a rule -if you have to spend more than 4 hours in the air, you go business class (and BA, Virgin, et al will give you a 50% discount if you block book or book say 100 seats a month).

Thus
A) it makes me laugh when I see advertisements for policy analysts where it says -'May involve foreign travel' -as if this were some kind of punishment;
B) I almost got my leg over at two conferences in the 1990s, sex is part of the unwritten deal (as is the all-expenses-paid 'meal' -ie order the Burgundy), the only reason it never got to the bedroom in my case was that on both occasions they turned out to be flirts who were married (and had been to conferences before and saw me coming a mile away. 'Excuse me' she purred, 'I have to call my husband, he broke his leg last week...'...ouch!).
C) Think of it as a form of international economic Keynesiaism, generating profits and business for lots of people, while giving policy wonks the opportunity to see foreign places and maybe get their legs over and who knows, returning to DC and London and Paris with an exotic bride -?

NONE of which detracts from the gravity of the issue.

Its a case of it being a racket, but watch the ball -and yet, for some reason, video conferencing just doesn't have the same appeal. I wonder why.

[trish]

I gotta say, conferences for the American Physical Society (even when they're held jointly overseas) never include sex or all-expenses-paid meals. Of course we're only interested in science...not policy. What kind of people do you hang with?

[Stavros]

And that's the American Physical Society??? Well of course its not on the agenda, and after all in my case there never was a George Clooney moment, but I tend to think of conferences as being similar to weddings where a lot of the people aren't really that interested in the bride and groom, if you take my meaning. Probably time for you to stop gazing at the heavens and make the cross-over to the social sciences, you have the brains for it and I daresay you would be most welcome in that neck of the woods...

[trish]

Yeah, we actually exist in the physical world, and I am a material girl It's been the American Physical Society since 1899. There has been some recent talk of switching to a more grammatical name but I don't believe any name change has yet been made official.
In the sciences people do pay a lot of attention to the talks, but more importantly conferences provide the opportunity to meet colleagues in small group settings (between talks or in the evening) to discuss developing techniques and approaches to problems. A lot of collaborative efforts get their start at conferences and are continued on Skype. Alas most mathematicians and physicists never really take the time to see the city they're visiting , unless they take an extended stay on their own money.

Speaking of money, most of the expense comes out of the attendee's pocket anyway. If you keep all your receipts, the University or the Grant organization may kick in a hundred dollars or so (or provide a small per diem) provided you delivered a paper at the conference. It's advisable not to submit receipts for prostitutes or expensive bottles of wine.

Probably time for you to stop gazing at the heavens and make the cross-over to the social sciences, you have the brains for it and I daresay you would be most welcome in that neck of the woods...

Gazing at the heavens with a geometer's eye is in my blood. Don't see myself stopping anytime soon. But I appreciate the invitation to stray into dark and dangerous woods. My, what shiny white teeth you have!

[Faldur]

So you think you're going to have a major world wide conference and people are going to swim, walk or bicycle to it from all corners of the world? Suppose you had attended and managed to get a motel reservation 15 miles from the conference center, would you be walking in the Copenhagen weather (it wasn't pleasant that week) to the talks or would you being taking the motel "limo" (as they are often called)?

I don't expect them to swim but I do expect them to live as if they honestly believe what they are trying to sell the rest of the world. Fly domestic, show you care about the environment. For Gods sake its a climate conference, make a asserted effort to ensure that all green transportation avenues are utilized. Bring in hybrid or electrics to replace the 60' stretch limo's.

The leadership of this movement displays a "elitism" like no other. They want the world to take them seriously but they live like drunken rock stars. So to a simple Faldur they obviously don't believe in climate change.

I do a lot of work with Google. We have built many of there local buildings. They have a green building policy that is strict. Common sense approach to actually making a difference in products and technics used in there projects. They pay the additional costs to know the building meets the standards of there beliefs. These are people to look up to. Do as I do, not as I say.

[trish]

Your assumption is that the attendees are there to sell the world what they believe. That they should be the people to look up to. Most the attendees at a Summit are policy makers from government and industry. Many of those attendees are there to drag their feet, and educating the world on climate science or setting good examples is the furthest thing from their minds. For people to look up to try the actual climatologists.

[Stavros]

Speaking of money, most of the expense comes out of the attendee's pocket anyway. If you keep all your receipts, the University or the Grant organization may kick in a hundred dollars or so (or provide a small per diem) provided you delivered a paper at the conference. It's advisable not to submit receipts for prostitutes or expensive bottles of wine.

On a more serious note I think its the political arena which is problematic, where expenses are routinely paid for by taxpayers and which revolves around the major summits but where there are also the less publicised, annual, sometimes bi-annual meetings of the various Conferences of the Parties, on Climate Change, Biological Diversity and so on. These involve government officials, UN officials, corporate representatives, and lobbyists and are never held in the same place but moved around the world, at what expense? I guess the difficult of linking government officials from around the world at the same time through video-conferencing is impractical because of time-zones and so on, but the cost must be astronomical.