Occupy Wall Street protest

[BigDF]

I think we're in violent agreement on the point of government's role, Dave. Yes, they were complicit, and the blame lies with both Clinton and Bush, Obama's only fault in this regard has been his failure of courage in not tackling the systemic abuses of the banks and the financial system in general (and a similar failing in too many other things to mention....)

However, my point is that while those in government facilitated the whole scandalous mess by their dismantling of the checks and balances that had governed financial business since the 30s, the banks took the opportunity to leap into the void that action created and to turn the whole environment utterly toxic.

Government was complicit, but the banks were culpable. Whether individuals within governments actively connived at what was going on is another matter, but I don't think that there has ever been a suggestion that it constituted overt government policy.

And a couple of glimpses/pointers from the UK. At the Tory conference yesterday the prime minister finally admitted for the very first time that the current debt crisis may actually have had something to do with worldwide factors and wasn't solely down to the previous Labour administration.

He also through his weight and commitment quite unequivocally behind full legalisation of gay marriage in the UK. He may be truly conservative in many things, but I totally applaud and support his social liberalism, it's a very significant shift within his party (probably hated by the right) but it took personal courage and it's a wonderful development. Now, can you imagine the US parallel of a sitting Republican president making the same open commitment? You guys have a long way to go.

You are right on point with this, Robertlouis. While our government occupied itself with the war on terror and finding ways to grow government by using the fear caused by 9/11 they let off on the oversight of our financial institutions that would have picked up on the coming crisis in 2008. The Occupy Wall Street protest is reflective of what people are starting to realize about our government and who is actually running our country.

Back in the early 1980's I was in a corporate training course at one of the leading firms in the world. My instructor in economics then predicted that the US would transform from an industrial based economy to one based on the service industry in the new millennium. Since this seems to be exactly what is going on right now, as our manufacturing base erodes, the fact that he made this prediction nearly 30 years ago makes me wonder if this isn't someone's grand plan.

And as our manufacturing base disappears, so does our middle class start to shrink. The threat of that seems to have come home as I've heard this morning that unions are starting to join the protest. I am not sure how to stop this trend or even if it is possible, but this next shift in our economic system threatens to be very painful for many of us. I myself am dependent right now on my Social Security disability which is now termed an entitlement and perhaps subject to cuts, although as a member of the boomer generation, politicians seeking my vote constantly reassure me that my income is safe.

Once again the conduct of humans baffles me, as the fact that we are all stuck on this rock together seems to escape so many of us. That and the fact that when we die and we all will someday, we die with exactly what we started out with: nothing.

[Prospero]

Somone said the working classes are not with what they dismissed as these "rich kids." Well that's changing now. Unions and ordinary working people are out there as well.

A genuine protest as opposed to tstagedmanaged ludic games of the tea party.

[Yvonne183]

If this was taking place in a middle eastern capital against the tyranny of some tinpot dictator we would all be cheering the protestors on. This time it's happening at the very heart of western capitalism and against the tyranny of the banks and their supine cronies in government of either hue, they're all equally culpable.

The students in Cairo got the same shit from their establishment and their lackeys in the media when the protests began in February, and yet they managed within a matter of weeks to overthrow what had become in effect 50 years of stifling and corrupt dictatorship, if you include both the Sadat and Mubarak regimes.

OK, so it would stretch the parallels to breaking point and beyond to take this much further, but the events in New York and elsewhere are in some respects not wildly different - it's a powerless and frustrated populace organising to take on what is to all intents and purposes a series of institutions which have done them and the entire population (of the world, not just the US) great wrong, and over the same period have not only further drained the nation's resources, but have carried on unscathed, with total impunity and the same unbridled arrogance. Believe me, those guys would do the same again tomorrow without turning a hair if they thought they could cut a profit from it. It's capitalism, it's about profit first, second, third and last, and fuck anyone who gets in the way.

These guys have settled on the right target, the people and businesses which created this mess. Yes, government was asleep at the wheel in terms of regulation and helped to facilitate what happened. But it wasn't government that created the whole sub-prime disaster or the financial products that they knew were worthless as they sold them. It was the banks.

What's happening here goes right to the core of America's belief system, that capitalism is ultimately beneficial for all and the only game in town. Well, it isn't, it fucks ordinary people over again and again and will continue to do so until governments worldwide have the courage, acting in concert, to take the bastards in the banks on and call their bluff.

Yep, I'm what you would call another candy-ass liberal wimp from the UK, but I'm calling this as I see it. I don't know if it will succeed, I don't care how many trust-fund kids are involved, but it's new and strange and it's scaring the shit out of the vested interests. It does my radical heart good to see people taking on the biggest and nastiest beasts in the forest. As Wordsworth said in 1802 in the context of the French Revolution, "Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive, but to be young was very heaven."

It's intoxicating to see the establishment on the run. All power to those involved.

The difference between these protesters and the middle eastern peoples are that the middle eastern people fought against whimpy armies. While these people in Wall st are going up against NYC police,, the Wall street protesters don't stand a chance in hell.

I keep hearing how the protesters are complaining about wall street influence in the gov't. Then wouldn't the common sense place to protest would be at the doorsteps of the gov'ts? You can't change a gov't policy when protesting at the wrong place. It's similar to protesting about the mobs influence in the gov't by protesting at the mobs hangouts. You don't do that, you protest at the gov't if one wants change but we will have to wait another year before that happens. No one in that crowd is going to protest against Obama.

Also,, be very careful what one wishes for,, if one wants a revolution,, they just might get one. And I can bet if a real revolution was to happen here, those protesters at wall street will probably either run away or become slaves to the new regime. Don't forget,, right wing people can make a revolution as well, and o lot of them are armed to the teeth.


My personal opinion,, these protesters are kinda like babies,, according to the videos I see of the protest, they seem to cry and complain when the police push them around,, very unlike the middle eastern protesters. Whatever their cause is,, they don't have the bottle to fight. When the cold weather comes to NYC I expect most will go back home.

[Silcc69]

“How can I tell my daughter with a straight face that Capitalism is a better system than Communism when we borrowin’ money from the Chinese, the biggest communist country on the planet??”

as quoted by one Felonius Monk

[soul4real]

It's literally going on just a few blocks away from me.. Here's the latest:

Here is a live feed of the protests via livestream:

http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

I guess these people don't have jobs or any other form of life?
Ridiculous!

Sorry. I call bullshit. I paid tuition by working McDonald's, landscaping, and painting. Plenty of this kind of work available if these people would get off their lazy asses.

No because i have to actually work for a living.....I'm not a trust fund kid living off my family's wealth (while at the same time complaining about it)...or a student living with Mommie and daddy...or an old radical living off a gov't check my whole life...you want to bitch and complain about nothing in general?...go do it in Washington.

If this was taking place in a middle eastern capital against the tyranny of some tinpot dictator we would all be cheering the protestors on. This time it's happening at the very heart of western capitalism and against the tyranny of the banks and their supine cronies in government of either hue, they're all equally culpable.

The students in Cairo got the same shit from their establishment and their lackeys in the media when the protests began in February, and yet they managed within a matter of weeks to overthrow what had become in effect 50 years of stifling and corrupt dictatorship, if you include both the Sadat and Mubarak regimes.

OK, so it would stretch the parallels to breaking point and beyond to take this much further, but the events in New York and elsewhere are in some respects not wildly different - it's a powerless and frustrated populace organising to take on what is to all intents and purposes a series of institutions which have done them and the entire population (of the world, not just the US) great wrong, and over the same period have not only further drained the nation's resources, but have carried on unscathed, with total impunity and the same unbridled arrogance. Believe me, those guys would do the same again tomorrow without turning a hair if they thought they could cut a profit from it. It's capitalism, it's about profit first, second, third and last, and fuck anyone who gets in the way.

These guys have settled on the right target, the people and businesses which created this mess. Yes, government was asleep at the wheel in terms of regulation and helped to facilitate what happened. But it wasn't government that created the whole sub-prime disaster or the financial products that they knew were worthless as they sold them. It was the banks.

What's happening here goes right to the core of America's belief system, that capitalism is ultimately beneficial for all and the only game in town. Well, it isn't, it fucks ordinary people over again and again and will continue to do so until governments worldwide have the courage, acting in concert, to take the bastards in the banks on and call their bluff.

Yep, I'm what you would call another candy-ass liberal wimp from the UK, but I'm calling this as I see it. I don't know if it will succeed, I don't care how many trust-fund kids are involved, but it's new and strange and it's scaring the shit out of the vested interests. It does my radical heart good to see people taking on the biggest and nastiest beasts in the forest. As Wordsworth said in 1802 in the context of the French Revolution, "Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive, but to be young was very heaven."

It's intoxicating to see the establishment on the run. All power to those involved.

The difference between these protesters and the middle eastern peoples are that the middle eastern people fought against whimpy armies. While these people in Wall st are going up against NYC police,, the Wall street protesters don't stand a chance in hell.

I keep hearing how the protesters are complaining about wall street influence in the gov't. Then wouldn't the common sense place to protest would be at the doorsteps of the gov'ts? You can't change a gov't policy when protesting at the wrong place. It's similar to protesting about the mobs influence in the gov't by protesting at the mobs hangouts. You don't do that, you protest at the gov't if one wants change but we will have to wait another year before that happens. No one in that crowd is going to protest against Obama.

Also,, be very careful what one wishes for,, if one wants a revolution,, they just might get one. And I can bet if a real revolution was to happen here, those protesters at wall street will probably either run away or become slaves to the new regime. Don't forget,, right wing people can make a revolution as well, and o lot of them are armed to the teeth.


My personal opinion,, these protesters are kinda like babies,, according to the videos I see of the protest, they seem to cry and complain when the police push them around,, very unlike the middle eastern protesters. Whatever their cause is,, they don't have the bottle to fight. When the cold weather comes to NYC I expect most will go back home.

See I disagree.. For one the people in the middle east were hardly fighting "whimpy" armies they were fighting regimes who have used violent force, torture just plain make you disappear for voicing dissent. So in this regard we have lot more freedom to assemble, hell its in our constitution. So these police are obstructing our Constitutional right to be able to protest things we find unjust.
As far as being in the wrong place, I think for the first time people's anger is in the right place. Turn to the media and its owned by a large corporation, 4 or 5 to be exact.. So of course they don't want any negative light shed upon the banking systems.. It will cost a $billion dollars to run for president in this upcoming election.. Is that democracy? is the most capable person of running the country really going to be elected if you need that kind of money? They only place that kind of money can come from is wall street. and they expect to get paid back..
1% of our population controls the majority of the wealth... its backwards for us to debate amongst ourselves of what the best course of ACTION is to fix a problem every one knows is there, ACTION creates RE-ACTION. its time that people learn the truth about our country..

What i dont get is why people are hating us protesters? Why do you feel its a dumb cause? Injustice of poverty is at its worst level.. The rich are richers and the poor are sliding into levels of great depression.. And our Government is bankrupt.. our global crediting rating has dropped for teh first time in american history.. The whole world knows where broke.. But americans to busy watching bad girls club, and reality tv..

[soul4real]

Also,, be very careful what one wishes for,, if one wants a revolution,, they just might get one. And I can bet if a real revolution was to happen here, those protesters at wall street will probably either run away or become slaves to the new regime. Don't forget,, right wing people can make a revolution as well, and o lot of them are armed to the teeth.


My personal opinion,, these protesters are kinda like babies,, according to the videos I see of the protest, they seem to cry and complain when the police push them around,, very unlike the middle eastern protesters. Whatever their cause is,, they don't have the bottle to fight. When the cold weather comes to NYC I expect most will go back home.

Iyvone.. did i speell that wrong my bad... lol But yo your absolutely right, people arent ready for revolution.. When african americans were the goverment swooped in and killed and imprisoned damn near every one in the movements.. The right wing nuts are armed to the teeth and having backing of their party (GOP), because they are organized. Again the right wings only get heard not because the republican party is in line with their values, but they can organize and cause a ruckus.. Combine that with close minded racisits views.. and yeah a revolution could get scary.. Lets not forget this country fought a civil war.. and it was a lot of people who would much rather prefer blacks in chains.. shits real

[soul4real]

so besides myself and ole girl who lives down the street, no one has gone out??? or supported in their own city? Before people jump to conclusions or stigmatize protesters, ask yourself where are you getting your information from?

[Yvonne183]

Iyvone.. did i speell that wrong my bad... lol But yo your absolutely right, people arent ready for revolution.. When african americans were the goverment swooped in and killed and imprisoned damn near every one in the movements.. The right wing nuts are armed to the teeth and having backing of their party (GOP), because they are organized. Again the right wings only get heard not because the republican party is in line with their values, but they can organize and cause a ruckus.. Combine that with close minded racisits views.. and yeah a revolution could get scary.. Lets not forget this country fought a civil war.. and it was a lot of people who would much rather prefer blacks in chains.. shits real

Sool for reel,, did I spell that wrong,, my bad.

Give me a fuckin break, i said nothing about black people,,, what is going on has nothing to do with race.

The protesters are protesting the wrong people. If there is corruption on Wallstreet then the corruption is there because the feds allow it or are part of the corruption. Change can only come if the protest is directed at the right people, which I believe is the feds, right now that would be Obama cause he is the President. And Obama has taken quite a lot of money from Wall street. I know republicans do the same, then we should direct our anger towards all gov't. But I don't see that happening cause most protesters are on the same side as Obama and they won't protest against Obama. Just like you Sool for reel brought up the race card, so would Obama and the lefty wing looney protesters fear being called a racist, i am not afraid of what people call me.


Also, this protest lost a lot of validity when labor unions joined the march. labor unions give millions to politicians who keep these corrupt policies alive, the unions are just the same as big business, corrupt as hell. Also, if the labor unions are so against Wall street, why do they invest money into wall street. If the economy is so very bad with people starving and all, then isn't it just wrong that labor unions give millions to politicians and to invest their monies on wall street. Wouldn't that money be better pent giving it to the staving masses?


Still. my opinion is the protesters are just spoiled brats, the cold weather should scare the babies back home. Just listen to some of the protesters talk on videos, they sound like lunatics, not knowing what they are saying.

[soul4real]

Yvone first off I didn't play any race card. I stated facts about mass movements in the united states.. the Civil Rights movement was a mass movement, it just happened to be African americans. How is that me playing the race card? And i hate that people use the "race card" as if its just something mythical, like the descendants of slaves who built this country, every really assimilated into the country as a whole with equality lol Yeah right.

Thats fine if thats your opinion of protesters being spoiled brats.. Your mis informed I cant be upset at you for that.. Have you been to the protest? Have you seen the people? I'm down there, i'm far from being a rich kid.. So what does that say about your generalization?

Wall Street is pimping our government, so there is no sense in going there, we want our government to know that WE KNOW the games rigged.. Sorry you will be on the wrong side of people boo

[soul4real]

Oh and I for one could care less if people protest obama.. He is just as fault as anyone else.. I agree that having to tip toe the line of race with regards to critiques of the President, are a pain.. But guess what,,, thats because Racism is still alive.. its easier to try to ignore it when you safely can forget it.


He took money from wall street that tipped his campaign with enough to win, and he paid back wall street. So yeah he is in this as well