North Carolina House Bill 2

I'm into trans-women, CDs, and think all people regardless of sex or color should NOT be discriminated upon. However I struggle with blindly approving issues like this. I don't believe just because someone who calls themselves trans should just be allowed to use their preferred bathroom. There should be some process to change their birth certificate, be in some treatment, hormones, etc before this should be allowed. I don't know if that's the answer but there needs to be more to it than the gender you self identify with. This is especially troubling with the youth since the issue is not yet known on how adults should handle this. I don't know what it's like growing up having to transition so I can't speak on what's its like.

Another topic related to this is religion. I'm not religious at all but if someone owns a Christian family business then they should be able to hire someone who fits the values based on their religion. I am for pro-trans rights but I also don't think this bill should be labeled as discriminatory. At this time I really don't see any other answers than a unisex bathroom.

I understand this is a sensitive subject and want to know thoughts with people more closely related to the issue. Just looking to start a respectful conversation to debate the issue.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/paypal-ax...200622429.html


http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2...e/PDF/H2v1.pdf

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Originally Posted by livepersona

I don't believe just because someone who calls themselves trans should just be allowed to use their preferred bathroom. There should be some process to change their birth certificate, .....

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....here we go again w/ the birth certificate shit. A person should not have to carry around a birth certificate in order to take a leak or have a bowel movement in a public bathroom. North Carolina can go Fuck themselves....and Kansas, Mississippi and Alabama too along with em. There's a list of about a dozen major corporations that are boycotting NC because of this reprehensibly stupid bill including B of A, Microsoft, and the NBA. I hope it buries them in the poorhouse for letting this thing pass.

"Life is short" you say? ....yes it is
"Just enjoy it" ? ....by all means....unless ,of course, some twisted bigot or religious nutbag jaggoff tells you you shouldn't be allowed to

I'm not saying that someone should carry around a birth certificate to use the bathroom. What I'm trying to articulate is that someone should actually be transitioning before they are allowed to use a specific bathroom and I don't know how to regulate or enforce that. I would say the honor system but that just doesn't exist in this world.

There have been more Congresspeople arrested for misconduct in bathrooms than there have been transgendered people.

OMG!!! Unisex toilets will destroy the world!!!

Oh wait... I think I have one of those at home.

Never mind.

I don't give a damn what bathroom any person goes in regardless of whether they are trans or not. I've gone in male bathrooms and saw women in there, I handle my business and leave because idgaf.

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Originally Posted by livepersona

I'm not saying that someone should carry around a birth certificate to use the bathroom.

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...OK....what you said was..."There should be some process to change their birth certificate," ....WTF is the point of that and how are you going to know it's been changed if you don't have someone at the restroom door checking everyone before allowing them entrance, which would in turn require you to have it on you at all times....sorry, it's a Bullshit concept

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Originally Posted by livepersona

What I'm trying to articulate is that someone should actually be transitioning before they are allowed to use a specific bathroom

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...and WTF is the point of THAT? Look, 2 people are dining at separate tables in a restaurant and are dressed in a skirt, nylon stockings and high heels. Under the skirt, one person has a vagina, the other a penis. They both get up and walk into the women's restroom to use the facilities. They walk in, they enter adjoining stalls, close their respective stall doors and do their business. One stands up and one sits down. None of the other people in the restroom knows who did what, and guess what....NOBODY GIVES A SHIT. The sky doesn't fall...it's not the end of the world as we know it because somebody with a dick took a piss in a stall in the women's restroom no matter what kind of surgery they've had or what hormones they may or may not be taking. ....again, it's a Bullshit concept

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Originally Posted by livepersona

I am for pro-trans rights but I also don't think this bill should be labeled as discriminatory.

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....well, I guess that explains it...anyone who claims to be in favor of trans rights and yet cannot see this stupidity as discrimination obviously does not have his tray table secured and his seat back in the full upright position

So let's breakdown a few issues:

1) A large number of states do not allow for birth certificates to be changed for transsexuals and most that do require SRS before making the change. My birth state is one such state. I go through life with only the folks closest to me (or who have seen my porn) knowing I'm transsexual. If I go into a men's room it's not only unsafe for me, it's also outting me as a transsexual. Should the state have a right to invade my privacy? What's the compelling community health & welfare issue which should allow them that right?

2) There are ZERO documented cases of a transsexual molesting or assaulting anyone in the bathroom. So the problem doesn't exist. Even if it did, our existing laws would punish that person quite severely. These laws have nothing to do with public safety. No need for the law exists so the only reason to explain creating them is to legalize discrimination.

3) You say you are pro-trans rights, but are you willing to publicly acknowledge your legal identity AND the fact that you are into transsexuals in a public forum? I don't know you, but I suspect that you wouldn't. The challenges you will face being exposed as liking transsexuals are only a fraction of the challenges we face as a result of these types of laws. Did you know that 47% of black transwomen have been incarcerated? That rate is significantly higher than any other population. Having laws like this just give another excuse to folks to throw transpeople in jail for no reason.

I'm beginning to think transwomen everywhere should stop having sex with men, lysistrata style, until these dumbass bathroom laws go away. Maybe then admirers like you would actually support us rather not having the balls to join our fight for equal rights.

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Originally Posted by Wendy Summers

....There are ZERO documented cases of a transsexual molesting or assaulting anyone in the bathroom. So the problem doesn't exist. .

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....there ya go....it could not be put more fundamentally than that
...unfortunately, such logic and cold hard facts are lost on these jesus freak reactionary inbred redneck GOP mofos
....it's the same argument they use for the if-ya-can't-beatem-cheatem photo ID voting regulations where there's something like 4 out of a billion cases of actual fraud
...I caught the tail end of a piece the other day about how in Kansas there is ( or will be if it passes) a bounty of $2500 offered for turning in a high school that allows a transgender to use the "wrong" restroom. Just boggles the mind in this day and age
.....what's a po boy to do? For one thing....stay the Fuck out of Kansas for starters.....and NC, MS, AL, TX, the list goes on
....also heard that there's a bunch of states that have told their staff people that unless they have official business to attend to, they should refrain from travel to NC. Maybe that's a possible solution...hit em in their pocketbooks....maybe that will knock some sense into them
....I have my doubts, but it's worth a try

Not to mention it would be far more dangerous for a transwoman going into a men's room, rather than just discretely using the ladies. Lesbians can use the ladies room. Are they perving on the other occupants?

https://twitter.com/JayShef/status/7...494144/photo/1

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Originally Posted by EZWind

....well, I guess that explains it...anyone who claims to be in favor of trans rights and yet cannot see this stupidity as discrimination obviously does not have his tray table secured and his seat back in the full upright position

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Just because I support one thing doesn't mean I'm automatically against it's opposition.

1. I think these laws are coming about because of schools and children and not sure it would even be brought up otherwise. I personally could care less about most places as we are all adults. Then again I'm not a women so unsure how they feel about the issue. Police have the ability now to stop and ask for ID. I'm not saying it's right but they do. And I don't think people should be asked of the gender before using the bathroom. Forcing you to use the male bathroom would cause more issues than these laws and is dangerous. I totally agree with that!

2. I totally agree with you here except I find it difficult to be labeled as discrimination.

3. I'm not saying that I'm 100% for this law to pass or to enforce it not by any means. Personally for me I need more discussion with people on this board because I only hear what I hear from opponents in the news.

lysistrata style- I had to look this up! hahahah! You would probably be right:)

Thank you - I do appreciate the open and honest dialog.

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Originally Posted by Wendy Summers

So let's breakdown a few issues:

1) A large number of states do not allow for birth certificates to be changed for transsexuals and most that do require SRS before making the change. My birth state is one such state. I go through life with only the folks closest to me (or who have seen my porn) knowing I'm transsexual. If I go into a men's room it's not only unsafe for me, it's also outting me as a transsexual. Should the state have a right to invade my privacy? What's the compelling community health & welfare issue which should allow them that right?

2) There are ZERO documented cases of a transsexual molesting or assaulting anyone in the bathroom. So the problem doesn't exist. Even if it did, our existing laws would punish that person quite severely. These laws have nothing to do with public safety. No need for the law exists so the only reason to explain creating them is to legalize discrimination.

3) You say you are pro-trans rights, but are you willing to publicly acknowledge your legal identity AND the fact that you are into transsexuals in a public forum? I don't know you, but I suspect that you wouldn't. The challenges you will face being exposed as liking transsexuals are only a fraction of the challenges we face as a result of these types of laws. Did you know that 47% of black transwomen have been incarcerated? That rate is significantly higher than any other population. Having laws like this just give another excuse to folks to throw transpeople in jail for no reason.

I'm beginning to think transwomen everywhere should stop having sex with men, lysistrata style, until these dumbass bathroom laws go away. Maybe then admirers like you would actually support us rather not having the balls to join our fight for equal rights.

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1. I think these laws are coming about because of schools and children and not sure it would even be brought up otherwise. I personally could care less about most places as we are all adults. Then again I'm not a women so unsure how they feel about the issue. Police have the ability now to stop and ask for ID. I'm not saying it's right but they do. And I don't think people should be asked of the gender before using the bathroom. Forcing you to use the male bathroom would cause more issues than these laws and is dangerous. I totally agree with that!

2. I totally agree with you here except I find it difficult to be labeled as discrimination.

3. I'm not saying that I'm 100% for this law to pass or to enforce it not by any means. Personally for me I need more discussion with people on this board because I only hear what I hear from opponents in the news.

lysistrata style- I had to look this up! hahahah! You would probably be right

Thank you - I do appreciate the open and honest dialog.

This "reprehensibly stupid" legislation was in response to Charlotte's ridiculous outside of their jurisdiction legislation to say people should be able to use whatever bathroom they identify with. That is asinine! Our bathrooms are not separated by gender, the are separated by sex. This is done mostly to protect women. Trans people (shock) are not the only people who use bathrooms! Just because they may not feel comfortable using a certain bathroom we need a law??? GTFO! How selfish! Maybe some people aren't comfortable the other way around. This is a case of activist not knowing when to stop! This is not something that can be regulated nor should it be! No one is going to hire an attendant for every bathroom and check someones birth certificate before they piss, nor are they going to hire shrinks to check if you are REALLY trans or just some pervert who wants to get into the women's bathroom. Trans people use bathrooms now--- legislation can't change that. If you get your ass beat now you're gonna get your ass beat after the stupid laws too. This is an unnecessary superfluous topic, but one typical of our insane, seems-like-a-good-idea-but-isnt, pc culture!

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Originally Posted by livepersona

Just because I support one thing doesn't mean I'm automatically against it's opposition.

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...and I'll miss you most of all Scarecrow
....sorry, but this just seems like a brainless statement to me. Please explain how one can be in favor of the opposition to a thing while claiming to be in support of that thing.
...that's like saying well I support a woman's right to drive a car but it's OK by me if my state passes a law banning women from getting a driver's license.

Bruce Springsteen canceled his upcoming concert in opposition of the bill. That's how you combat bills like this. Put economic pressure on the state(s) in question until they come to their senses.

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Originally Posted by EZWind

...and I'll miss you most of all Scarecrow
....sorry, but this just seems like a brainless statement to me. Please explain how one can be in favor of the opposition to a thing while claiming to be in support of that thing.
...that's like saying well I support a woman's right to drive a car but it's OK by me if my state passes a law banning women from getting a driver's license.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/13py6c5BSnBkic/giphy.gif

So Wendy:
Only a few hundred thousand of your closest friends know your secret, huh? How long ya think you can keep it under wraps? We'll throw a cumming out party when you finally climb out of your shell.

Sucka4chix:
Charlotte "legislation"? I could easily be wrong, but I thought all this crazy was a reactionary response to a court decision. Maybe I missed something.
Anyway; this can no longer be consiered a superfluous topic since discriminatory & spiteful laws are being passed. They probably won't hold up, but it takes time, & damage will be done to some folks just because of who they are. I consider these attainders, & blatently illegal to start with, but I'm not a lawyer. (Thank the PTBs)

Livepersona:
This isn't about schools. That's a constant bugaboo whenever fanatics try to protect their comfort levels from those who aren't in lockstep with their views of the perfect society. It's always "they-them-those" who are trying to destroy the "moral fibre". Whatever that means. Outside of the bullies, this isn't anissue with kids in school. Just supposed adults who want to control.the thoughts of children, mostly not their own.

The universal moral code, irrespective of religious belief, is the ethic of resiprosity, also known as "the golden rule". That's where one needs to start when considering these kind of legal attacks on anyone. There's no more heinous act of immorality than to dehumanize another.

One more thing:
This is the USA. No one is required to carry any ID at all, let alone a birth certificate. The only way to really tell who's who in the rest room is to have a guard feeling up every crotch coming through the door. Methinks it would be quite entertaining to watch the self-righteous justify that one.

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Originally Posted by EZWind

...and I'll miss you most of all Scarecrow
....sorry, but this just seems like a brainless statement to me. Please explain how one can be in favor of the opposition to a thing while claiming to be in support of that thing.
...that's like saying well I support a woman's right to drive a car but it's OK by me if my state passes a law banning women from getting a driver's license.

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The difference being pro-trans rights like marriage, healthcare, employment, etc. Even to use the bathroom if one has taken or undergoing active steps for a transition. This does not necessarily mean some legal piece of paper, but some formidable action towards transitioning. Make sense?

Stop voting for the conservatives that make these insane laws, or if you do not vote, start.
Easy way to stop these stupid laws is to NOT vote for the people that pass them. Trying to defend this after its pass is a waste of your time, all you have posted here is correct, but will not change the law nor their mind. Voting,on the other hand will and voting for the people that do not believe in this kind of crap will stop it.
Go vote and pay attention to who you vote for.

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Originally Posted by ohiodick

Stop voting for the conservatives that make these insane laws, or if you do not vote, start.
Easy way to stop these stupid laws is to NOT vote for the people that pass them. Trying to defend this after its pass is a waste of your time, all you have posted here is correct, but will not change the law nor their mind. Voting,on the other hand will and voting for the people that do not believe in this kind of crap will stop it.
Go vote and pay attention to who you vote for.

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I agree with the voting of course...but with gerrymandering, voter ID laws, the closing of polling places, and other obstructions, voting those assholes out isn't that easy anymore.

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Originally Posted by hippifried

Sucka4chix:
Charlotte "legislation"? I could easily be wrong, but I thought all this crazy was a reactionary response to a court decision. Maybe I missed something.
Anyway; this can no longer be consiered a superfluous topic since discriminatory & spiteful laws are being passed. They probably won't hold up, but it takes time, & damage will be done to some folks just because of who they are. I consider these attainders, & blatently illegal to start with, but I'm not a lawyer. (Thank the PTBs)

The universal moral code, irrespective of religious belief, is the ethic of resiprosity, also known as "the golden rule". That's where one needs to start when considering these kind of legal attacks on anyone. There's no more heinous act of immorality than to dehumanize another.

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Charlotte city council decided to pass anti-discrimination laws, among which was a law saying people can choose the bathroom of the sex they identify with.
Yes the state law is reactionary, but getting mad at the state is like getting mad at the sore on your penis instead of the bitch who burned you! You can't have male & female bathrooms but say "use whichever one you feel like". That's called common sense. If you don't agree with that then we're done here. It is not discrimination to ask a male to use the male bathroom simply because they don't fell like a male. The system is made for male and female. If you want to go unisex--- fine, but that's not the discussion. The discussion is with the system we have, male & female bathrooms, how do we decide who's male & female. And the answer is. YOU CAN'T unless you go by sex organs. I said this was superfluous because this is not a topic that should have even been broached. Trams people use the bathroom everyday. Maybe there is inherent risk-- but if you look like Bill Laimbeer in a wig you knew that when you walked outside. You chose a challenging lifestyle, but according to the golden rule you shouldn't want to burden others just so you can feel comfortable

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Originally Posted by EZWind

...OK....what you said was..."There should be some process to change their birth certificate," ....WTF is the point of that and how are you going to know it's been changed if you don't have someone at the restroom door checking everyone before allowing them entrance, which would in turn require you to have it on you at all times....sorry, it's a Bullshit concept




...and WTF is the point of THAT? Look, 2 people are dining at separate tables in a restaurant and are dressed in a skirt, nylon stockings and high heels. Under the skirt, one person has a vagina, the other a penis. They both get up and walk into the women's restroom to use the facilities. They walk in, they enter adjoining stalls, close their respective stall doors and do their business. One stands up and one sits down. None of the other people in the restroom knows who did what, and guess what....NOBODY GIVES A SHIT. The sky doesn't fall...it's not the end of the world as we know it because somebody with a dick took a piss in a stall in the women's restroom no matter what kind of surgery they've had or what hormones they may or may not be taking. ....again, it's a Bullshit concept



....well, I guess that explains it...anyone who claims to be in favor of trans rights and yet cannot see this stupidity as discrimination obviously does not have his tray table secured and his seat back in the full upright position

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THANK YOU for your common-sense, pragmatic answer. One of Humanity's most significant feature (aside from the opposable thumb!) is adaptability. Yet a segment of the population (those often labelling themselves conservative) persists in opposing change and prefer to cower in fear at the prospect of change rather than adapting as needed. I bet the conservative types can trace their roots back to that one ape up in the tree who remained long after the others had discovered legs were useful for more than scurrying up and down tree trunks.

Public restrooms are for a) pissing b) washing your hands c) taking a shit none of which are gender-specific activities.

Im trans. and I blame Caitlyn Jenner. discuss..

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Originally Posted by runningdownthatdream

Public restrooms are for a) pissing b) washing your hands c) taking a shit none of which are gender-specific activities.

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And yet we've had legally mandated separate bathrooms that no one was complaining about until now

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Originally Posted by sucka4chix

And yet we've had legally mandated separate bathrooms that no one was complaining about until now

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indeed.......'we' also had apartheid in South Africa, segregation ( a more polite term for apartheid) in America, persecution of Jews in Europe, untouchables in India, genocide of native peoples around the world, etc etc etc.......those were also 'moral' ideals - and legal too - upheld for decades.

At some point within the last few hundred years some societies deemed it prudent to use separate facilities for our base needs. Many things have changed since including perceptions about gender.

Embrace the change. Stop cowering in fear when faced by the unknown.

I did not know what this was until I looked it up, and cannot really comment on the details other than to offer a link below to a list-based survey of HB2 which covers more than just the LGBTQIAP provisions, and I also throw in the Fox news related website which offers a literal reading which results in this:

6. Does this bill mean transgender people will always have to use the restroom of the sex of their birth, even if they have undergone a sex change?
Answer: No. This law simply says people must use the bathroom of the sex listed on their birth certificate. Anyone who has undergone a sex change can change their sex on their birth certificate.
http://myfox8.com/2016/03/29/myths-v...crorys-office/

How disingenuous can one get? And as has been pointed out in other posts nobody is obliged to walk around with their Birth Certificate at all times. Not yet, anyway.

It seems to me that the issue here is the way in which individual states have the ability to chip away at liberal laws many of which date from or are related to Civil Rights legislation passed in the 1960s and 1970s. Voter registration is one obvious law which states have a lot of power to influence, as is also true of boundary demarcations in electoral districts, but I don't see how the Federal govt can over-ride some of these issues without eroding state's rights, and that has been a contentious issue in the US since the Civil War if not before.

For what it's worth, my experience of rest-rooms on both sides of the Atlantic is that the businesses or services providing them need lessons in basic hygiene and rest-room management. I have been ashamed to use so many I often make provision before I leave home so that I will only need to use a public rest room in an emergency. I know that in many cases it is 'other people' who turn these facilities into disease pools of disgusting liquids and suspicious trails of 'stuff' on the walls, on the floor and on the seat, and I have lost count of the number of times I have seen a man walk straight from the urinal to the door to leave without washing his hands, leaving minute traces of his urine on the handle, something which ought to be illegal.

Clubs with LGBTQIAP nights will strictly demarcate use the Male and Female toilets with attendants inside to monitor activity and keep the place clean, not to discriminate against LGBTQIAP but because in the past sexual activity (sometimes in exchange for money) used to take place in the Male toilets, the old WayOut in London c2003 used to be notorious for this (I think they changed their policy around 2004-05 and not just for legal reasons)-I don't know if this happens or happened in the US.
The toilets on the ground floor of Diva's in San Francisco last time I was there were a disgrace, the Lounge in Las Vegas not much better. I don't have a toilet phobia as such, but I am wary of using public rest-rooms for various reasons related mostly to hygiene and the absence of basic facilities -water, soap, paper etc. It must be a nightmare for so many LGBTQIAP as well as the rest of us, yet in our most modern cities and towns we can't seem to find a way to provide decent provisions for the bare necessities of life, and that must change, along with attitudes.

Another survey of HB2 is here:
http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2016/...-house-bill-2/

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Originally Posted by runningdownthatdream

indeed.......'we' also had apartheid in South Africa, segregation ( a more polite term for apartheid) in America, persecution of Jews in Europe, untouchables in India, genocide of native peoples around the world, etc etc etc.......those were also 'moral' ideals - and legal too - upheld for decades.

At some point within the last few hundred years some societies deemed it prudent to use separate facilities for our base needs. Many things have changed since including perceptions about gender.

Embrace the change. Stop cowering in fear when faced by the unknown.

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Really dude? See that's why activism sucks-- people take little insignificant crap and compare it to monumentally important things. I guess the new catch word will be CHANGEOPHOBIC. Don't exaggerate your importance. No one is afraid. That's rhetoric for people who need to feel important. The change suggested by Charlotte is a bad change and unwarranted. My point was that no one was trying to champion men because the are "discriminated" against because they can't use the ladies room, but since it's trans we have to care??? When was the last time you went into a bathroom fuming "Dammit! These gender specific bathrooms!!"? (Btw, there not gender specific, they're Sex specific).Never gave it 2nd thought, did you? But now, conveniently you do.Your unilateral rights are unbecoming.

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Originally Posted by sucka4chix

Really dude? See that's why activism sucks-- people take little insignificant crap and compare it to monumentally important things. I guess the new catch word will be CHANGEOPHOBIC. Don't exaggerate your importance. No one is afraid. That's rhetoric for people who need to feel important. The change suggested by Charlotte is a bad change and unwarranted. My point was that no one was trying to champion men because the are "discriminated" against because they can't use the ladies room, but since it's trans we have to care??? When was the last time you went into a bathroom fuming "Dammit! These gender specific bathrooms!!"? (Btw, there not gender specific, they're Sex specific).Never gave it 2nd thought, did you? But now, conveniently you do.Your unilateral rights are unbecoming.

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Little insignificant crap' to you is monumentally important to some. a proliferation of 'little insignificant crap' taken together becomes a program of discrimination. Usually the people who benefit the most from discrimination can't see how their actions affect others. They're too taken up with proclaiming that 'nobody' is complaining. Ironic really since the 'Nobody' they're referring to is made up of the majority. It's always the so-called minority that recognizes and acts because they most acutely feel the pain inflicted by 'nobody'.

I didn't say anything about gender-specific bathrooms. Read it again.

I'm not clear on what you're saying about championing men to use the ladies room: are you inferring that no-one ever championed men to use ladies rooms but suddenly we care if the man claims to be transgender? If that's your point I really don't have anything else to say to you.

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Originally Posted by sucka4chix

And yet we've had legally mandated separate bathrooms that no one was complaining about until now

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Really? Where? Is this just another tidbit from the book of makinshitup? Sorry bud, but sexually segregated restrooms are & have been a courtesy by the providers. If there were already legal mandates, these new laws would never have been written.

So how is this a burdon on anybody? Hmmm... Maybe some woman has to wait an extra 2 minutes? Not an issue so much with men because of urinals. I've seen quite a few women use the stalls in the men's rooms at ballgames & other large crowded venues, just because nobody's invented a mass urinal system for women, & the lines can be ridiculous. Seen some sideways glances silly grins, but never heard a complaint. There's more & more unisex toilets nowadays too. Especially around the medical industry. All you have to do is lock the door for privacy. Knock before entry. It's just basic social politic. No need for laws if we'd all stop this nonsense of how much better it is to be rude rather than "politically correct". I just wish women would put the seat back up where it belongs.

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Originally Posted by hippifried

I've seen quite a few women use the stalls in the men's rooms at ballgames & other large crowded venues,

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....as have I...on many occasions...and like you said...never a word of complaint
...and how about outdoor concerts and large festivals? There's a row of Port-O-Johns that men and women alike line up at and when one becomes vacant you go in, TCB and go on your way.....no problems at all, except maybe when they don't set them up in the shade....by late afternoon after they've been cooking in the sun all day, things can get a bit ripe, but still ...it doesn't bring on the Apocalypse

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Originally Posted by hippifried

..... I just wish women would put the seat back up where it belongs.

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..heh heh....good one
....that whole seat up/down controversy is one sticking point in the battle of the sexes thing that I'll never understand. Whenever a woman bitches about men over this and I ask them what's the problem, they always say well, have you ever sat down on the bowl w/ the seat up? The answer, of course, is no, never once....men have to do it sitting down half the time too....if you're standing and the seat is down, you put it up. If you need to sit and the seat is up...you put it down, it ain't rocket science. Whenever you're about to drop trou and set your bare ass down on something, it's just common sense to take a look first to see what you're sitting on....sorry ladies, I just don't get it

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Originally Posted by livepersona

The difference being pro-trans rights like marriage, healthcare, employment, etc. Even to use the bathroom if one has taken or undergoing active steps for a transition. This does not necessarily mean some legal piece of paper, but some formidable action towards transitioning. Make sense?

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....not really, but OK....I give up

Even the NBA is getting in on the subject. North Carolina has thirty days.

http://abcnews.com.co/nba-cancels-al...lina-lgbt-hb2/

Ok, time to repeal this legislation--no more stolen porn in NC as Xhamster boycotts!

[QUOTE=Ben in LA;1683495]Even the NBA is getting in on the subject. North Carolina has thirty days.

http://abcnews.com.co/nba-cancels-al...lina-lgbt-hb2/[/QUOTE

Oh, that was one of the first shoes to drop!

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Originally Posted by runningdownthatdream

Little insignificant crap' to you is monumentally important to some. a proliferation of 'little insignificant crap' taken together becomes a program of discrimination. Usually the people who benefit the most from discrimination can't see how their actions affect others. They're too taken up with proclaiming that 'nobody' is complaining. Ironic really since the 'Nobody' they're referring to is made up of the majority. It's always the so-called minority that recognizes and acts because they most acutely feel the pain inflicted by 'nobody'.

I didn't say anything about gender-specific bathrooms. Read it again.

I'm not clear on what you're saying about championing men to use the ladies room: are you inferring that no-one ever championed men to use ladies rooms but suddenly we care if the man claims to be transgender? If that's your point I really don't have anything else to say to you.

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"Public restrooms are for a) pissing b) washing your hands c) taking a shit none of which are gender-specific activities." -- that's the comment I was referring to. It's not gender specific. It's sex-specific. Women and men do different things in bathrooms and they do more than those 3 things above. Women have this thing called a period. People use restrooms to get naked for some reason because they can't do it in public (change clothes, check a pimple on their back, give themselves an enema before that hot date).
I can't understand why "Little insignificant crap' to you is monumentally important to some" is such a unilateral concept to so many. For one second, apply what you said to the people on the other side. You think having a guy who identifies as female in a bathroom is cool. It's insignificant. Maybe it's monumental to someone else. Your thoughts are not the only ones that matter. What if there's a woman who was sexually assaulted by a guy and now you make her uncomfortable because she (irrationally) thinks guys are coming into the bathroom? Are her feelings less significant because she's not transgender? I don't know numbers but I can guarantee there are more sexually assaulted women in NC than there are transgenders. You are being as close minded as you accuse the other side of being. This issue enforces itself. Go use the bathroom and shut up about it. No law is needed. Period. No one can beat your ass for using the bathroom- it's illegal! You know when you're using a bathroom that you have no business in. There are bad people everywhere, sometimes bad shit happens-just drive through the hood and see what legislation will do for you! All this crying that the activist have done has only made (using the bathroom) an issue and is hence more dangerous than it was before.

xhamster is blocking North Carolina viewers from accessing their site lol

That will likely achieve the most pressure on the state, if porn companies block citizens. No way citizens will be happy with being block from viewing porn lol. You should totally do it too Grooby!

Tried to post a photo but it didn't work.