Fuck the Police State

Fuck this shit Im sick of it - every day I turn around there is another abuse of power by the jackboot Police State abusing their power to protect and serve themselves...

and dont even get me started about the department of homeland security - the last time we saw someone "protecting" the population in the name of the "Homeland" their uniforms were different colors and they had a heavy German accent.


from http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/h...ndeered-homes/

http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-con...swat-boots.jpg (Source: Getty Images)

HENDERSON, NV — Police forcibly commandeered homes from two innocent families because they wanted to use the properties to surveil a neighbor. After their plan was denied by phone request, police conspired and executed a plan to break into the homes and arrest the innocent homeowners, a lawsuit reveals.


The incident took place on July 10th, 2011. The Henderson Police Department (HPD) was issued a complaint about suspected domestic violence. Police decided that they wanted use two neighboring houses to observe the suspect. In conjunction with the North Las Vegas Police Department (NLVPD), officers devised a plan to commandeer the home of Anthony Mitchell, as well as the home of his parents, Michael and Linda Mitchell — both living adjacent to the suspect. Each of them were innocent and uninvolved in the suspected crime.


A lawsuit states: “At 10:45 a.m. defendant Officer Christopher Worley (HPD) contacted plaintiff Anthony Mitchell via his telephone. Worley told plaintiff that police needed to occupy his home in order to gain a ‘tactical advantage’ against the occupant of the neighboring house. Anthony Mitchell told the officer that he did not want to become involved and that he did not want police to enter his residence. Although Worley continued to insist that plaintiff should leave his residence, plaintiff clearly explained that he did not intend to leave his home or to allow police to occupy his home. Worley then ended the phone call.”


Without permission, officers Christopher Worley (HPD), David Cawthorn (NLVPD), and Sgt. Michael Waller (NLVPD) allegedly plotted to take over the homes by force.


Officer Cawthorn’s official report described the plan: “It was determined to move to 367 Evening Side and attempt to contact Mitchell. If Mitchell answered the door he would be asked to leave. If he refused to leave he would be arrested for Obstructing a Police Officer. If Mitchell refused to answer the door, force entry would be made and Mitchell would be arrested.”


Police proceeded with their plan, breaching Anthony Mitchell’s front door with a battering ram. “The officers aimed their weapons at Anthony Mitchell and shouted obscenities at him and ordered him to lie down on the floor,” the complaint stated. Mitchell’s account stated that NLVPD Officer Snyder gave him conflicting orders to both shut off his phone and to “crawl,” and that Snyder called him an “asshole.”



“Although plaintiff Anthony Mitchell was lying motionless on the ground and posed no threat, officers, including Officer David Cawthorn, then fired multiple ‘pepperball’ rounds at plaintiff as he lay defenseless on the floor of his living room. Anthony Mitchell was struck at least three times by shots fired from close range, injuring him and causing him severe pain.”
Officers then arrested him for obstructing a police officer, searched the house and moved furniture without his permission and set up a place in his home for a lookout, Mitchell says in the complaint.


Anthony Mitchell alleged that police also hurt his pet dog for no reason whatsoever: “Plaintiff Anthony Mitchell’s pet, a female dog named ‘Sam,’ was cowering in the corner when officers smashed through the front door. Although the terrified animal posed no threat to officers, they gratuitously shot it with one or more pepperball rounds. The panicked animal howled in fear and pain and fled from the residence. Sam was subsequently left trapped outside in a fenced alcove without access to water, food, or shelter from the sun for much of the day, while temperatures outside soared to over 100 degrees Fahrenheit.”


Then the police turned their attention to the second home, owned by Anthony Mitchell’s parents on the same street. Police lied and lured out Michael Mitchell, the father, requesting his help to negotiate the surrender of his neighbor. In actuality he was taken to a HPD command center and not permitted to leave. When he tried to walk off, he was arrested and charged with Obstructing a Police Officer.
With Anthony and Michael Mitchell detained, police commandeered the second home, still occupied by Linda Mitchell. When she told officers that they could not enter her home without a warrant, the officers detained her, dragging her off through the desert heat to a “command post”, despite her frail condition and pleas to stop. Police then rummaged through her home, her belongings, her purse, even leaving the refrigerator ajar.


Anthony and Michael Mitchell were booked and locked in jail for obstructing an officer. They were jailed for at least nine hours before they bailed out, they stated in the complaint. They claim the police filed the baseless criminal charges “to provide cover for defendants’ wrongful actions, to frustrate and impede plaintiffs’ ability to seek relief for those actions, and to further intimidate and retaliate against plaintiffs.”


None of the officers were fired, subjected to official discipline, or even inquiry, the complaint states.

I cannot agree more. I served a number of years serving in and out of a uniform out of sense of patriotism. I am ashamed of what the police are doing and what some people allow them to do.

the problem here in America, is people put up with it.

where's the 20,000 strong public protest in Henderson, demanding justice for this guy?

they're all on the internet calling them "pigs" and quoting the 3rd Amendment.

truth be told. If this were my house they were "commandeering" , at least the first fucker would've been met with gunfire and hopefully I'd shoot the second cop and third and so on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by my my my!

the problem here in America, is people put up with it.

where's the 20,000 strong public protest in Henderson, demanding justice for this guy?

they're all on the internet calling them "pigs" and quoting the 3rd Amendment.

truth be told. If this were my house they were "commandeering" , at least the first fucker would've been met with gunfire and hopefully I'd shoot the second cop and third and so on.

---

have you seen the abuse of power lately - its not the 60's anymore - the police state is as heavily armed as the military and largely given free reign to lock anyone up who speaks out - for most the internet is the only safe place left to speak out. They have the guns and they have instilled a culture of fear where people are afraid to speak out or rise up.

But that all only goes so far before a population rises up - history proves that and the despots fear the truth in the numbers. I hope Im there the day the turn in power finally happens.

Im not a big gun advocate but the reason we have the right to arm ourselves is against a corrupt and oppressive state - which is exactly what we are becoming - the change was slow at first but now the government and police state act with impunity and recklessly flaunt their power.... thousands of cops to stop a few hundred McDonald's employees from protesting unfair wages... citizens in wheel chairs arrested for using the side of the road to go to the grocery store to get food. Teens beaten and pepper-sprayed for using their photos to video the actions of the cops.

If the actions of those who are to enforce the laws break the very same laws they should be stripped of the right to act as our protectors by whatever means necessary. - if your not already on a government or NSA watch list you are either doing something wrong or your a sheep.

Fuck the police

Some of these states like New York are even passing laws where you could be locked up just for even looking at a cop wrong. I usually try to avoid driving through Upstate NY anymore because the state police like to sit in every rest area through that place pulling trucks in just for "safety" inspections, and use a very intimidating attitude like they suspect everyone of being a criminal. Worse yet is if they gain any knowledge of you being a member of the GLBT community....then they turn into complete Nazis. There's also a video on YouTube somewhere (assuming the state hasn't had it taken down) of NY state troopers storming an Indian reservation when tribe members where having a peaceful protest over NY's violation of Indian treaties, and the Troopers start beating beating people (including women and kids) with their night sticks for no reason. That was back in the late 90's , and that situation has gotten worse after 9/11.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bimale69

Some of these states like New York are even passing laws where you could be locked up just for even looking at a cop wrong. I usually try to avoid driving through Upstate NY anymore because the state police like to sit in every rest area through that place pulling trucks in just for "safety" inspections, and use a very intimidating attitude like they suspect everyone of being a criminal. Worse yet is if they gain any knowledge of you being a member of the GLBT community....then they turn into complete Nazis. There's also a video on YouTube somewhere (assuming the state hasn't had it taken down) of NY state troopers storming an Indian reservation when tribe members where having a peaceful protest over NY's violation of Indian treaties, and the Troopers start beating beating people (including women and kids) with their night sticks for no reason. That was back in the late 90's , and that situation has gotten worse after 9/11.

---

Very interesting especially given that a Native American Reservation is technically a sovereign nation -

You have 2 options ....

1) Learn to live with it and keep your head down (you can mitigate a lot of trouble by being more wealthy and influential).

2) Leave the country.


Things aren't going to improve :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by my my my!

truth be told. If this were my house they were "commandeering" , at least the first fucker would've been met with gunfire and hopefully I'd shoot the second cop and third and so on.

---

Actually you'd be dead as soon as you fired one shot. Police are armed with Military grade equipment....some even have APC's and tanks these days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rabbiteyes

You have 2 options ....

1) Learn to live with it and keep your head down (you can mitigate a lot of trouble by being more wealthy and influential).

2) Leave the country.


Things aren't going to improve :P

---

'

No!

I would Never make it that convenient for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chaos

Actually you'd be dead as soon as you fired one shot. Police are armed with Military grade equipment....some even have APC's and tanks these days.

---

Thats because the only thing they have is fear and guns - we have the numbers and that's where the true power lies -

Look at a cop at a protest - every bit of armor the put on - every big APC they drive up in and and every gun and grenade the strap on to themselves is a sign of exactly how terrified they are of the rest of the population - we could throw them all out of power in a heartbeat if we really wanted to.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

Lots of words + No Pictures = On to the LadyBoys

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimmy W

Lots of words + No Pictures = On to the LadyBoys

---

You do realize that the police state isnt a big fan of GLBT rights - you do want us around to be in those photos right ?

Photos - Yes.....Rants - Not really....

I will trump this old story with news from the last 48 hours -- A 17-year-old boy in Manassas, VA trades sexting pics with his 15-year-old girlfriend, resulting in charges filed for child porn possession and production (of himself; which may, you know, lead to lifelong listing in a sex offender registry). To bolster the case, police gain a search warrant to forcibly strip him naked, inject his penis with a chemical to force an erection, and then take pictures to document what he looks like. After some public shaming, the police now say they will not carry out the warrant, but the prosecutor still plans to carry through with the child porn charges.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...r-lawyers-say/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimmy W

Photos - Yes.....Rants - Not really....

---

then why are you reading this?

the obvious irony of that is probably wasted as well

You know, there is a very simple solution to all of this! Very simple! Dramatically simple. STOP VOTING FOR THE REPUBLICANS!! STOP ELECTING REPUBLICANS IN THE TWO CHAMBERS!!!!!!!!
It shouldn't take a genius. This all started during the Reagan era and is part of the hard right agenda.
Secondly, stop giving in to pop vogue and declaring yourself a "Libertarian"! The American political system is a bi-partisan one. Whatever you do or think will favor either one or the other. If you really want no State, no government, you side up and tremendously help the hard right, which hope is precisely the disapearance of any type of regulation (see Tea party).
It already has reached such fantastic proportions its totally mind boggling. There is something like 900 hard, swat team police bust every day in US private homes. Police forces today are all equiped with military supplies and all have tactical units. 1 person out of 4 who's in jail on planet earth is in jail in the US. America jails more of its citizens than all the supposedly "bad guys" it looks upon as evil: more than Iran, more than China, more than Russia, etc. America indeed counts 24% of the entire world carceral population!
And this has started only 35 years ago, with the Republican great push and Karl Roves strategy. It simply keeps on going like the energizer rabbit, despite the presidency of some good, competent Democrats, because people keep voting Republican in both houses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by danthepoetman

You know, there is a very simple solution to all of this! Very simple! Dramatically simple. STOP VOTING FOR THE REPUBLICANS!! STOP ELECTING REPUBLICANS IN THE TWO CHAMBERS!!!!!!!!
It shouldn't take a genius. This all started during the Reagan era and is part of the hard right agenda.
Secondly, stop giving in to pop vogue and declaring yourself a "Libertarian"! The American political system is a bi-partisan one. Whatever you do or think will favor either one or the other. If you really want no State, no government, you side up and tremendously help the hard right, which hope is precisely the disapearance of any type of regulation (see Tea party).
It already has reached such fantastic proportions its totally mind boggling. There is something like 900 hard, swat team police bust every day in US private homes. Police forces today are all equiped with military supplies and all have tactical units. 1 person out of 4 who's in jail on planet earth is in jail in the US. America jails more of its citizens than all the supposedly "bad guys" it looks upon as evil: more than Iran, more than China, more than Russia, etc. America indeed counts 24% of the entire world carceral population!
And this has started only 35 years ago, with the Republican great push and Karl Roves strategy. It simply keeps on going like the energizer rabbit, despite the presidency of some good, competent Democrats, because people keep voting Republican in both houses.

---

Im starting to realize that there is very little difference between republicans and democrats beyond the color of tie they wear. They all answer to a shadow government made up of corporations and banks. There is no real power in politics.

The national defense authorization act conducted its first joint Military and Civil Police training exercise a while back - guess where they used as their training ground - the US bank building in LA.... now what would they be training to protect? I wonder....

As Jim Morrison said - ?Five to One Baby, One in Five"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TempestTS

Im starting to realize that there is very little difference between republicans and democrats beyond the color of tie they wear. They all answer to a shadow government made up of corporations and banks. There is no real power in politics.

The national defense authorization act conducted its first joint Military and Civil Police training exercise a while back - guess where they used as their training ground - the US bank building in LA.... now what would they be training to protect? I wonder....

As Jim Morrison said - ?Five to One Baby, One in Five"

---

I have to disagree, Tempest. And in my opinion, this type of confusion is part of the problem. Yes, political parties in a bi-partisan system will necessarely defend money interrests. But that doesn't mean both are alike and defends the same values. If you put both in the same bag, you abandon all hope, which is what intelligent people (like you) do when they give in to the "Libertarian" vogue (with the bulk of other libertarians being cuckoos, conspirationists, little green men abductees, people who think 9-11 was a ste-up, etc.). You have to be able to make the difference between people who will favor money powers for the embetterment of the national economy from people who couldn't care less about the population. Let me give you a very good example of how this all started with reaganism:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by danthepoetman

I have to disagree, Tempest. And in my opinion, this type of confusion is part of the problem. Yes, political parties in a bi-partisan system will necessarely defend money interrests. But that doesn't mean both are alike and defends the same values. If you put both in the same bag, you abandon all hope, which is what intelligent people (like you) do when they give in to the "Libertarian" vogue (with the bulk of other libertarians being cuckoos, conspirationists, little green men abductees, people who think 9-11 was a ste-up, etc.). You have to be able to make the difference between people who will favor money powers for the embetterment of the national economy from people who couldn't care less about the population. Let me give you a very good example of how this all started with reaganism:

---

Two words (well 3 if you get rid of the hyphen)

"For-Profit Prisons"

it was in the works long before Regan

Follow the money - thats who put it into play - the person sitting in office is just a puppet - just look at Obama and what he's let the NSA run wild with - do you know what their budget is - do you know who is making fortunes off of the state paranoia

All wars have been bankers wars - many funded both sides at the same time. They didnt care who won just who spent. Now who do you think is making a fortune off the spending of the police state - and who does the police state protect?

:) ...

The NSA, DHS, the militarization of local police forces the suspension of posse comitatus. For Christ sakes the Department of Agricultural has a freaking S.W.A.T team, the DHS alone has purchased 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition and for what?

The erosion of individual rights is the scariest thing of all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelheckitt

The NSA, DHS, the militarization of local police forces the suspension of posse comitatus. For Christ sakes the Department of Agricultural has a freaking S.W.A.T team, the DHS alone has purchased 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition and for what?

The erosion of individual rights is the scariest thing of all.

---

Exactly, they took a long time slowly removing rights and safe guards but the slope has gotten much steeper lately and things are speeding up exponentially

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TempestTS

Very interesting especially given that a Native American Reservation is technically a sovereign nation -

---

Unfortunately the NYS government conveniently ignores that fact. I saw a news story a few years back that the state DHS was actually fearing a reprisal by the Indian tribes, and even planning para-military measures just in case. its basically at a hair trigger now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bimale69

Unfortunately the NYS government conveniently ignores that fact. I saw a news story a few years back that the state DHS was actually fearing a reprisal by the Indian tribes, and even planning para-military measures just in case. its basically at a hair trigger now.

---

Im part Cherokee - the us government has been ignoring its words for over two centuries now - apparently the police state today is an indication its just ran out of other races to persecute so now its turned on its own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scroller

I will trump this old story with news from the last 48 hours -- A 17-year-old boy in Manassas, VA trades sexting pics with his 15-year-old girlfriend, resulting in charges filed for child porn possession and production (of himself; which may, you know, lead to lifelong listing in a sex offender registry). To bolster the case, police gain a search warrant to forcibly strip him naked, inject his penis with a chemical to force an erection, and then take pictures to document what he looks like. After some public shaming, the police now say they will not carry out the warrant, but the prosecutor still plans to carry through with the child porn charges.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...r-lawyers-say/

---

That is disturbing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wearboots4me

That is disturbing.

---

Quite disturbing indeed - Ive followed that story - they were going to chemically induce an erection in the teen so they could photograph his penis for evidence.

The mere threat of that should be held at a minimum of harassment and child abuse - the prosecuter, police and judge who signed the warrant should face charges !

and in the news where I live

- a 'No knock' warrant harasses a family - destroys property and kills two pets in front of kids to seize a glass bong and a grinder containing marijuana residue.

Violent SWAT raid leaves St. Paul family traumatized, two pets shot dead

"I really thought I was being murdered," said the father-of-two.

Posted on July 11, 2014 by Site Staff in News
http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-con...rry-raid-3.png Mello and Laylo, both killed by the St. Paul SWAT. (Source: KMSP)

ST. PAUL, MN — A SWAT team left a family traumatized and mourning the loss of two beloved family pets that were abruptly gunned down in their living room during a surprise morning raid. In the wake of their devastation, police walked away with enough evidence to issue a $200 ticket.
At approximately 7:00 a.m. on Wednesday, July 9th, the home of Camille Perry and Larry Lee Arman was breached with a battering ram, and strange men charged in with rifles and opened fire on their pets.
Mr. Arman, owner of a towing business, says he was laying asleep when he heard the front door breached and then the gunfire.
“The first thing I heard was ‘boom,’” he recalled to KMSP. “Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. Right in front of us.”
http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-con...-1-300x151.png Larry Lee Arman demonstrates where he was during the violent raid. (Source: KMSP)

“I was laying right here, and I really thought I was being murdered,” Mr. Arman recalled.
Arman’s girlfriend Camille, who is 8-months pregnant, ran frantically to protect their two sons, ages 4 and 7. She contends that the sleeping children were directly in line with the attacks from police, as they shot her dog as it retreated.
“The gunshots scared the living daylights out of me, and knowing that they were in such close range of the dog and where we were laying with my kids made it worse,” Perry said to the Pioneer Press. “Our oldest dog actually ran back to protect us in front of the bed and they kept shooting her, even though we were laying right there.”
When the gun smoke cleared, it was evident that the invaders were members of the St. Paul SWAT team.
The hail of bullets unleashed into their two pet dogs, Mellow and Laylo, had killed them both. Blood was splattered all over the living room, staining the carpet and a pair of shoes.
“One was running for her life, and they murdered her right here,” Mr. Arman said to KMSP.
http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-con...-2-300x151.png Larry Lee Arman’s broken door after experiencing a battering ram. (Source: KMSP)

Officers proceeded to tear the house apart for hours. Besides the two dead dogs, the extensive damages included multiple broken doors, broken door frames, and walls with the insulation and vents ripped out. All damages were left to the homeowner to cover.
The 4-year-old son was quoted as innocently asking, “Did you see all the soldiers?”
Arman and Perry were left scratching their heads as to why they were targeted. Mr. Arman admits that he uses marijuana recreationally, but there was no need to breach his door and shoot up his home.
The warrant stated that police were to seize drugs and weapons. The officer responsible for providing the supporting affidavit to acquire the search warrant was Officer Matthew Severance.
The police recovered a water pipe and some marijuana residue. According to Minnesota law, small amounts of marijuana are considered petty misdemeanors, and are punished with at $200 fine. Cops also made off with some of Arman’s clothes and some of his cash.
The community was wholly shocked at the SWAT teams actions, appalled at the deaths of dogs that were “full of love,” according to neighbors, and then dumped on the side of the road like “pieces of meat.”
Police claimed their lives were in danger from the pets, who were “an immediate threat to officers” performing official government business. There has been no indication that the department sees anything wrong with the raid or that anyone involved might be fired or disciplined in any way. This was by the book.
See an interview conducted with the family by KMSP-TV:

KMSP-TV Accountability Checkhttp://www.policestateusa.com/wp-con...ndBlinking.gif
St. Paul Police Department (Minnesota)
Facebook: Link

Who is responsible for the War on Drugs?
The War on Terrorism?
The War on Illegal Immigration?
The Escalation of Arms in America?

It’s all Obama’s fault.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trish

Who is responsible for the War on Drugs?
The War on Terrorism?
The War on Illegal Immigration?
The Escalation of Arms in America?

It’s all Obama’s fault.

---

Exactly. There is one turning point which is absolutely obvious. Once again...

Who is responsible for the War on Crime? The privatization of prison?
The electorate. You ARE the government. We govern ourselves through elected representatives. If you don't want for profit prisons don't elect representatives who support them. If you don't want homeland security arming ordinary city police with state of the art armor and arms, don't vote for the people who put that shit in place to begin with. We are the government. Those who are too lazy, or too distracted, or would just rather not participate in meaningful self government, will be governed by those who do participate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rabbiteyes

You have 2 options ....

1) Learn to live with it and keep your head down (you can mitigate a lot of trouble by being more wealthy and influential).

2) Leave the country.


Things aren't going to improve :P

---

Well, actually there is a third option that is guaranteed by the first and second amendments. I don't like it. I hope it never comes to it, but sooner or later it probably will.

The so-called War on Drugs in particular has dramatic effects. They now bust into homes with tactical units regularly for simple possession. A bag of a few grams of pot is often sufficent to do so! The militaro-industrial complex has penetrated the police forces. Policing is now engaged, because of this "war", in the same kind of vicious circle the military is traped in. And the solution is simple. So simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trish

Who is responsible for the War on Crime? The privatization of prison?
The electorate. You ARE the government. We govern ourselves through elected representatives. If you don't want for profit prisons don't elect representatives who support them. If you don't want homeland security arming ordinary city police with state of the art armor and arms, don't vote for the people who put that shit in place to begin with. We are the government. Those who are too lazy, or too distracted, or would just rather not participate in meaningful self government, will be governed by those who do participate.

---

The greatest trick that our government ever pulled off was making you think your vote counted.


The system is hopelessly fucked - Iceland threw out its government and locked up its bankers and is now the first country in the world to run completely off of renewable energy. And they didnt do it with voting - Im more than willing to participate - but its probably not in the way that your thinking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by danthepoetman

Exactly. There is one turning point which is absolutely obvious. Once again...

---

Did you know that according to the FBI the amount of violent crime in this country as decreased by an amazing 50% in the past twenty years? When I look at the graphs you supplied, I can't help seeing the correlation.

Quote:

---

The greatest trick that our government ever pulled off was making you think your vote counted.

---

Bullshit! The greatest tricked being pulled on Americans everyday is the promulgation of the lie that their vote doesn't count. Why do you think the GOP is so concerned with voter ID when there is no significant record of voter fraud? It's all about voter suppression. Why do the parties, interest groups and candidates spend billions on ad campaigns? It's because VOTES MEAN EVERYTHING. We elect the government. You don't have to collect an arsenal and take up arms. You just need to read, listen, learn, discuss, participate and vote.

I couldnt agree more - Silence means Death - stand on your feet.

- twenty years ago they were talking about china and Brazil - today this scene looks very familiar right here in what's left of America

Sepultura - Refuse/Resist [OFFICIAL VIDEO] - YouTube

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnlinzer

Originally Posted by Rabbiteyes http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/ima...s/viewpost.gif You have 2 options ....

1) Learn to live with it and keep your head down (you can mitigate a lot of trouble by being more wealthy and influential).

2) Leave the country.


Things aren't going to improve :P
-----
Well, actually there is a third option that is guaranteed by the first and second amendments. I don't like it. I hope it never comes to it, but sooner or later it probably will.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnlinzer

Did you know that according to the FBI the amount of violent crime in this country as decreased by an amazing 50% in the past twenty years? When I look at the graphs you supplied, I can't help seeing the correlation.

---

So, you're saying the ends justify the means?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnlinzer

Well, actually there is a third option that is guaranteed by the first and second amendments. I don't like it. I hope it never comes to it, but sooner or later it probably will.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trish

Bullshit! The greatest tricked being pulled on Americans everyday is the promulgation of the lie that their vote doesn't count. Why do you think the GOP is so concerned with voter ID when there is no significant record of voter fraud? It's all about voter suppression. Why do the parties, interest groups and candidates spend billions on ad campaigns? It's because VOTES MEAN EVERYTHING. We elect the government. You don't have to collect an arsenal and take arms. You just need to read, listen, learn, discuss, participate and vote.

---

Bullshit on your bullshit call - you seem to think the billions spent on candidates goes to only one party ??? Seriously ??? - you think that police state spending has decreased under democratic leadership ??? You think the NSA has had powers reduced in any meaningful way under the current leaderhsip ??? our leaders - ALL OF THEM - were bought and paid for long before the election was even held.

Read something besides what the mainstream "B" side media feed you - its much deeper than the two party system or liberal vs conservative

I applaud your faith in the system - I just find it woefully misplaced - it hasnt changed anything substantial in over 50 years, possibly more than 100.

Quote:

---

you seem to think the billions spent on candidates goes to only one party ???

---

Did I say that? Let's check. I asked, "Why do parties(notice the plural)...spend billions..." The answer is because we're a democratic-republic with an elected government that is replaced piecemeal on an ongoing basis. VOTES ARE EVERYTHING.

My faith in the system extends only as far as my faith in the electorate, which is depressingly small and all too often willfully ignorant.