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The Jared Leto Question
Today's Independent produces a round-up of mostly hostile comment on Jared Leto acting the role of Rayon in Dallas Buyer's Club, for which he won the Best Supporting Actor Oscar. The simple argument raised is whether or not transgendered roles ought to be played by transgendered actors -who do exist- or whether or not it matters at all. In addition there is criticism of the character as reinforcing stereotypes of transgendered people as being prostitutes, involved with drugs, etc, and that in Rayon's case Jared Leto is little more than a transvestite anyway. One also thinks it was mean of Leto not to mention the transgender 'community' in his acceptance speech.
The argument is weak on one level because any number of actors play roles they could not possibly be in real life, be it Adolf Hitler, serial killers, alcoholics, or happy people. Alec Guinness, one of the UK's most distinguished actors, performed as a man, a woman, an Indian, an Arab, a soldier, a spy -and did it all well. In Leto's case, it seems to me, the issue is, was he a reasonable example of the Dallas transgendered people whom the original Ron Woodroof would have known, and is it so far fetched to believe they made a living in the sex trade? I thought his performance was outstanding, it was not hysterical, the climax happened off-screen and I was moved by it. And in his speech -censored in Russia because of his remark about the Ukraine -did mention people who have died from AIDS or been the victims of discrimination. So, below is his acceptance speech, followed by the Independent article.
Jared Leto Oscars Speech 2014 HQ - YouTube
Jared Leto’s Best Supporting Actor Oscars win sparks backlash from transgender community
The actor's award credentials came under fire from some groups who criticised his portrayal of Rayon in Dallas Buyers Club
Jenn Selby Tuesday 04 March 2014
The actor, who was honoured with the Academy Award for his portrayal as Rayon – an HIV-positive transgender woman living in Texas in the 1980s – in Dallas Buyers Club, faced a backlash from some members of the transgender community.
Outraged groups questioned why a straight, male actor had been chosen for the role and why he had neglected to thank the transgender community during his acceptance speech.
“I have no interest in watching a cis [non-transgender] man in drag play a trans woman ever again,” Jos Truitt of Feministing wrote.
“No matter what Dallas Buyers Club does as a film, the narrative around this movie, the fact that a man in drag is playing a trans woman, perpetuates the stereotype that we are men in drag.”
Some pointed out that the media coverage of the role had been far from informed:
Others protested his stereotypical treatment of the character which, Time writer Steve Friess claims, marks “another moment when liberals in Hollywood, both in the industry and in the media, showed how little they understood or empathized with the lives of a minority they imagine they and Leto are honoring[sic].”
“Not long from now — it surely won’t take decades, given the brisk pace of progress on matters of identity and sexuality these days — Leto’s award-winning performance as the sassy, tragic-yet-silly Rayon will belong in the dishonorable pantheon along with McDaniel’s Mammy,” he wrote, referencing Hattie McDaniel’s 1940 Best Supporting Actress win for her portrayal as Mammy in Gone with the Wind. Her award marked the first honour the Academy had ever given a black person.
Katie Glover, the founder of The Gender Society and the editor of Frock, the most widely read transgender and drag magazine in the world, explained the key points of the debate to The Independent:
"When we first heard about Dallas Buyer's Club, we were quite pleased because the character Rayon, could be one of the first transgender protagonists. Transgender people need more visibility so this is a good move. The more we are seen, the more normal we appear and the easier it will be for transgender people to fit into the world.
"However, within the transgender community there is also much controversy surrounding that character. Firstly there's the fact that she seems to reinforce the stereotypical idea that all trans people must be gay and/or sex workers and/or drug users. That has angered many trans people who have seen this movie.
"Okay, some are gay but apparently, no more than within the wider population and maybe some trans people use drugs but being transgender does not make you want to take drugs or make you gay. Don't get me wrong here - there's nothing wrong with being gay - it's just that most transgender people are not gay.
"Most non-TG people think being transgender is about sexuality but we know it's about gender identity, which is a completely different thing.
"As well as that there is some anger about the casting of Jared Leto in a transgender role. Why couldn't they have cast a real transgender actor? Some say it's akin to casting a white actor in a black role and asking him to black up for it. If that happened today, it would be deeply offensive to the black community and likewise, the use of Jared Leto as Rayon is viewed by many in much the same way.
"Having said that, I also know of many other transgender people who are very happy with Jared Leto's portrayal of Rayon, so not everybody is cross about this."
Similarly, Mara Keisling, the executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality, told the Huffington Post USA: “Leto’s portrayal was of a particular fictional transgender person at a particular time. But we can’t forget that transgender people like Rayon did exist and do exist.
“To the film's credit, I think it accurately showed what the life of this brave person must have been and how she was treated. Our job is to make life better for transgender people like Rayon in the real world, and it really helps to have these lives told by Hollywood.”
And, as Rolling Stone reminded, he wasn’t the first actor to win an award for portraying a transgender individual:
The first was actually Hilary Swank, who won the Oscar for Best Actress in a Leading Role in 1999 for her portrayal as transman Brandon Teena in Boys Don’t Cry.
Of course, this isn’t the first time his role as Rayon has come under criticism.
The actor was heckled by two women at a Q&A session with Fandango's Dave Karger during the Santa Barbara International Film Festival’s Virtuosos Awards.
“Trans-misogyny does not deserve an award,” one of the women shouted from the audience.
Leto asked the woman what she meant by her comment. She answered: “You don't deserve to play a trans-woman.”
“Because I'm a man, I don't deserve to play that part?” he said. “So you want to hold a role against someone who happened to be gay or lesbian – they can't play a straight part?”
The woman went on to complain that “historically straight-gender people always play transgender people, and all of them received awards and credit for it.”
“Then you make sure that people that are gay, people that aren’t straight, people like the Rayons of the world, would never have the opportunity to turn the tables and explore parts of that art,” he responded.
Leto apparently met the two women backstage to continue the discussion.
The news comes after reports emerged that Leto’s acceptance speech had been censored in Russia because he mentioned the Ukraine.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/jared-letos-best-supporting-actor-oscars-win-sparks-backlash-from-transgender-community-9168770.html
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Consider what it would have meant to the trans community / society had a trans woman won the oscar.
It would have meant a trans actresses career would be pushed forward like none other. Appearing in bigger movies, roles specifically created for that actress, and more and more trans visibility (not just in every interview she has for the movie...but every time she is seen, mentioned, constantly fighting for trans rights in the public eye).
Instead....
We have a cis straight white guy who won an oscar (given because he played a rather harmful stereotype of "poor trannies").
During interviews, he tends to ignore trans issues....even in the acceptance of the award, he ignores trans issues (the very reason he got the award).
What was the end result of the movie? A step backwards for trans acceptance and rights with the perpetuation of many harmful stereotypes. And yet, Hollywood is celebrating it...as if they have achieved something great.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
I think Stavros' points are valid. It is quite reasonable to regard the character in the context of her times, when transwomen were not nearly as accepted or as well developed physically as they are today.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
He's an actor. He's playing a part.
Best person for the job? Possibly - possibly not, I've yet to see it but as long as trans-women were able to audition and Jared played the role more convincingly, then it's a non-issue. This "outrage" is getting kinda boring.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
No. Transgender should ONLY do porn!
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rabbiteyes
Consider what it would have meant to the trans community / society had a trans woman won the oscar.
It would have meant a trans actresses career would be pushed forward like none other. Appearing in bigger movies, roles specifically created for that actress, and more and more trans visibility (not just in every interview she has for the movie...but every time she is seen, mentioned, constantly fighting for trans rights in the public eye).
Instead....
We have a cis straight white guy who won an oscar (given because he played a rather harmful stereotype of "poor trannies").
During interviews, he tends to ignore trans issues....even in the acceptance of the award, he ignores trans issues (the very reason he got the award).
What was the end result of the movie? A step backwards for trans acceptance and rights with the perpetuation of many harmful stereotypes. And yet, Hollywood is celebrating it...as if they have achieved something great.
don't you think for these kind of issues you should expect people who are not actors to push them forward?
i mean- you're putting so much emphasis on someone who is simply an actor to do interviews and make comments about a community which he is not a part of and push their issues? would that even be right? can he honestly be the spokesperson for the trans-community?
also, i'm one of those people who doesn't believe you have to be gay to play a gay character, or straight to play one. just be a good actor because that's what it's all about: acting. if this was a documentary, then we'd have a valid topic
btw: jared leto's mom is super hot. she can be in my movie anyday :D
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rabbiteyes
Consider what it would have meant to the trans community / society had a trans woman won the oscar.
It would have meant a trans actresses career would be pushed forward like none other. Appearing in bigger movies, roles specifically created for that actress, and more and more trans visibility (not just in every interview she has for the movie...but every time she is seen, mentioned, constantly fighting for trans rights in the public eye).
Instead....
We have a cis straight white guy who won an oscar (given because he played a rather harmful stereotype of "poor trannies").
During interviews, he tends to ignore trans issues....even in the acceptance of the award, he ignores trans issues (the very reason he got the award).
What was the end result of the movie? A step backwards for trans acceptance and rights with the perpetuation of many harmful stereotypes. And yet, Hollywood is celebrating it...as if they have achieved something great.
I find myself agreeing with some of the sentiments of your post because I am sure there are some talented transgendered actors out there (Harmony Santana would be one example), but I disagree with your argument that Dallas Buyer's Club is a 'step backwards' for trans acceptance'. The core issue has more to do with acting in a film rather than being transgendered.
I find it hard to believe that as a result of a transexual appearing in a film as a transexual, this would 'break the mould' and that more and more films would feature transexual characters. That is probably a challenge too far for Hollywood. And surely, the mark of success for a transexual actor (using the word as gender neutral) would be that they play a role not because of their gender, but because of their ability to act, rather than "bigger movies, roles specifically created for that actress, and more and more trans visibility". This sounds to me like a ghetto in the making. Acceptance, surely, dissolves the boundaries of gender, as acceptance of black actors dissolves the boundaries of colour -?
It is now counter-factual, but in what way would a transgendered actor have played the role differently from Jared Leto? To begin with, there was a script, so I am assuming that a transgendered actor who did not want to depict Rayon as a 'stereotypical poor trannie' would have asked for changes to the script -to show what? Rayon in the film is not actually depicted as a prostitute, as I recall, we never see her hustling or disappearing in a cab with a john. She is not shown taking drugs outside the anti-viral medicines the members of the Club are buying, yet I would surmise 50% or more of 18-35 year old transexuals in Dallas in the 1980s would be at least casual consumers of recreational drugs -Texas might be conservative by reputation, but we all know strange things happen after dark.
On the other hand, by playing a direct role in the Dallas Club, Rayon is shown as a socially responsible person who is doing something that is mutually beneficial for her and the local community -hardly a negative stereotype.
I wonder if it is a case of transexuals being critical in this sense: I don't talk like that; I don't dress like that during the day. I wouldn't do that, I wouldn't wave my hands around like that. I don't know if Jared Leto did any research, my guess is that if he is into bands, LA, clubs, and so on, he has encountered transexuals; if he did not want to acknowledge the fact that is his choice.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
I agree with most of the comments. It would have been very meaningful for a trans woman to win the Oscar but winning it was not a foregone conclusion for anyone. I also don't understand the argument that if someone plays a character who has some stereotypical features, they are then the mere embodiment of those stereotypes. Sometimes certain character traits are derived from actual biographical data where the character is based on a real person, and sometimes stereotypes are touched upon incidentally without an implied message that these characteristics are typical of a member of that class.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mrtrebus
No. Transgender should ONLY do porn!
Hmmmm, not sure if serious.
We've had a couple of transgender women at work, thats a fairly normal working environment (central southern UK).
People, regardless of gender, should be allowed to perform any job that they want as long as they can do the job.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
At issue is whether or not there is a transgender woman who could have played the role better. The oscar was awarded for Leto's ability to embody the role well. I contest that if a cis gender woman had played the role of a transwoman, it would not have been as well received as Leto's portrayal. Moreover, I contest that had a transwoman played the role in DBC, more attention would have been paid to her gender and the fact that she had or was transitioning than her ability on screen to portray a character well.
the fact is that most of society is not well educated on the transgender community to be ready to respect a transgender actor in this or any role so the answer is, in a movie such as this where you have A-list talent, i don't think a transgender actor would have been appropriate because the masses would have reacted errantly. Moreover, because the role was of a poor hooker, it would have put an undue spectacle on the transgender community.
Trans actors need to break into film and tv as regular characters where the fact that they are trans is only part of their personal life, not their character's life. That's equality and acceptance. Anything short of that still segregates transpeople as something other than normal.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
broncofan
I agree with most of the comments. It would have been very meaningful for a trans woman to win the Oscar but winning it was not a foregone conclusion for anyone. I also don't understand the argument that if someone plays a character who has some stereotypical features, they are then the mere embodiment of those stereotypes. Sometimes certain character traits are derived from actual biographical data where the character is based on a real person, and sometimes stereotypes are touched upon incidentally without an implied message that these characteristics are typical of a member of that class.
The Rayon character wasn't based on a real person...
The main character of the movie WAS based on a real person...and that person was bisexual (and no indications of him being bigoted). But the writers made him straight instead (since, well, straight guy saving gays seems like a better story, right?).
They still needed a gay character in the film then.
So they invented Rayon.... as a crossdresser.
Yup, the character was a crossdresser originally. Actually, they just swapped out the word "Crossdresser" for "tranny" at some point (but left the script as it was).
Anyhow, who was Rayon? The gay pity porn wet dream character of the directors.
Someone who audiences could really feel the deepest form of pity for...the very bottom of society.
Drug addict....aids infected....prostitute....who dies....AND is trans.
I mean really, does it get any more sad? I guess she could have been black?
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RallyCola
Trans actors need to break into film and tv as regular characters where the fact that they are trans is only part of their personal life, not their character's life. That's equality and acceptance. Anything short of that still segregates transpeople as something other than normal.
Ideally....sure....
But we all know that isn't happening or going to happen.
Trans actresses getting trans roles is one of the few things they actually CAN do.... but still manage to miss out on those roles in favor of a man ready to throw on a dress.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rabbiteyes
Ideally....sure....
But we all know that isn't happening or going to happen.
Trans actresses getting trans roles is one of the few things they actually CAN do.... but still manage to miss out on those roles in favor of a man ready to throw on a dress.
that is a very defeatest statement and it would almost seem to pigeonhole trans actors. to simplify the issue, it really will come down to whether a casting director is hiring an actor because he or she is a transgender person or hiring an actor who just happens to be a transgender person.
it is quite clear to me that major film and tv roles will only come after success in independent films or plays. i would not be surprised at all if an off-broadway, or for that matter, a broadway show is where someone will get a big mainstream break.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
"I found my answer when I listened with jaw dropped to what director Jean-Marc Vallee had to say on CBC Radio about casting a trans person as the role of Rayon in Dallas Buyers Club. “Never,” he said. “Is there any transgender actor? To my knowledge — I don’t know one. I didn’t even think about it”. When the interviewer interjected with, “Of course there are transgender actors,” Vallee answered with, “Which ones? There’s like five, or three, or what — two? I never thought of that. I never thought of hiring a real rodeo guy to play the rodeo Ron Woodruff. And just like in every film — we’re actors, we’re directors. I’m not aiming for the real thing. I’m aiming for an experienced actor who wants to portray the thing.”
They didn't even look for a trans person...or think about it.
But, yea, random cis straight guy who talked to a tranny once or twice seems legit. Not like the role would turn into an ugly walking stereotype or something (oh wait, crap, that is what happened).
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rabbiteyes
The Rayon character wasn't based on a real person...
The main character of the movie WAS based on a real person...and that person was bisexual (and no indications of him being bigoted). But the writers made him straight instead (since, well, straight guy saving gays seems like a better story, right?).
They still needed a gay character in the film then.
So they invented Rayon.... as a crossdresser.
Yup, the character was a crossdresser originally. Actually, they just swapped out the word "Crossdresser" for "tranny" at some point (but left the script as it was).
Anyhow, who was Rayon? The gay pity porn wet dream character of the directors.
Someone who audiences could really feel the deepest form of pity for...the very bottom of society.
Drug addict....aids infected....prostitute....who dies....AND is trans.
I mean really, does it get any more sad? I guess she could have been black?
I agree with you that the artistic choices weren't the bravest. I particularly understand your objection to the macho homophobic guy taking charge and gradually developing a sensitivity for the gay and transgender community. I thought it was a bit of a cop-out, as well as a weak plot device.
Maybe the director and screenwriter didn't trust the audience to be sympathetic to Rayon unless he was portrayed as coming from the most desperate circumstances. If that's the case, then the choices are a response to prejudice rather than a driver of it.
I don't think the portrayal of Rayon was a malicious one. It might reflect the filmmaker's belief that there would be trans-phobic and homophobic people in the audience.
But if you look at the history of message movies, they don't date very well. There was a movie decades ago called Gentleman's Agreement about anti-semitism, that if you watch now, comes across as a well-intentioned, albeit overwrought and absurd film. I bet you there were some people at the time who thought so simply because they had a familiarity with the issues.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rabbiteyes
They didn't even look for a trans person...or think about it.
did you miss my original post????
of course they did not look for a trans actor. they wanted a commercially viable movie so they cast someone with a name.
if they had cast a transwoman, the press would have focused on her transition more than her skill as an actress. the masses would have labeled it a gay aids movie. the producers were completely right NOT to seek a transwoman as their point was to make money.
that fact...that the movie was made to make money...is exactly the reason that a trans actor needs to be cast in a role that has nothing to do with transition because that is the best way to hedge against having the focus be on the actor's gender...it is the best way to hedge against the uneducated audience labeling it inappropriately.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RallyCola
of course they did not look for a trans actor. they wanted a commercially viable movie so they cast someone with a name.
Ok, if you want to talk about business...let's do that.
From a business stand point, Jared Leto hasn't done a movie for over 6 years. He really isn't a big name.
On the other hand, you are right...the media would have asked a trans actress about trans things for the trans role she is playing (WHICH IS A GOOD THING!).
In the same way Laverne Cox gets a HUGE amount of publicity and attention (for being a trans actress playing a trans character). Whatever actress had gotten the part for Buyers Club would have gotten huge press as well....
From a business stand point, a trans person would have brought a lot more attention. Instead, you had Leto going around to the talk shows talking about waxing his entire body and deciding to wear drag out once to "get connected with the role".
Basically, it was like having a straight guy play a woman and then asking him how he felt... and he focuses on "omg, did you know women shave their legs?!? with these special non man razors! omg!"
You seem to be trying to argue that a trans person SHOULDN'T play trans roles....which is kind of insane?
You seem fine with the results of cis straight guys playing trans characters (in that they bring nothing to the role but tired stereotypes).
The director gave an interview about how Leto first met him in character....and that leto was so into the character, that the first thing he did was try to seduce the director (because, of course a trans women wants to fuck any man that walks by). Even outside the movie these guys had their heads so far up their asses that they didn't realize they were just living out some weird stereotyped idea of women and trans people.
The entire thing is just pathetic.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rabbiteyes
You seem fine with the results of cis straight guys playing trans characters (in that they bring nothing to the role but tired stereotypes).
the actor only brought to the role what was required of him. if the part demands he play a certain character he cannot change it and suddenly be an activist for a cause he most likely doesn't understand.
also, didn't domino presley dare "us" to try and live in the opposite gender for a week? how long did the shooting of this film last, because i think jared leto may have done it for us- especially, since as you put it, "he's going on all these talk shows talking about waxing his entire body and deciding to wear drag out once to "get connected with the role".
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
I haven't seen the movie yet...so I can't judge his acting. Normally I say let actors act.
My question would be."If you didn't know Jared Leto and never saw him out of character...would you know he wasn't a transsexual?"..and if so, how?
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MrBest
its called acting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4h30ysR0lk
My guess is Buyers Club will be a short footnote in "the progression of the tranny" down the road.
And it will be the black face period...when cis straight men played trans women.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Once again the usual idiotic non-sympathetic comments from the same members of the peanut gallery when a trans-woman comments on something not porn related. Instead of chiming in on the side of the misinformed general public how about you two asshats show some understanding and try to relate to what she's saying?
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
I wonder if a trans person had played the role, would they have gotten an academy award? We are jumping through too many hoops. Jared performance as actor was good, he conveyed emotion extremely well giving more than one dimension to his character. Actors by definition act to portray a different person. I don't how many people say the buyers club, but I thought Matt and him did an excellent job at portraying complex characters. I still thought in my opinion the Oscar should have gone to some other people, but Academy tends to never agree with my opinion.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rabbiteyes
The Rayon character wasn't based on a real person...
The main character of the movie WAS based on a real person...and that person was bisexual (and no indications of him being bigoted). But the writers made him straight instead (since, well, straight guy saving gays seems like a better story, right?).
They still needed a gay character in the film then.
So they invented Rayon.... as a crossdresser.
Yup, the character was a crossdresser originally. Actually, they just swapped out the word "Crossdresser" for "tranny" at some point (but left the script as it was).
Anyhow, who was Rayon? The gay pity porn wet dream character of the directors.
Someone who audiences could really feel the deepest form of pity for...the very bottom of society.
Drug addict....aids infected....prostitute....who dies....AND is trans.
I mean really, does it get any more sad? I guess she could have been black?
I agree with a theme of your post, the ambiguity of a film where facts blur into fiction -yes, in real life Woodroof, according to his wife, was bi-sexual; also the Rayon character was derived from a mix of real transexuals in Dallas around at the time, rather than a specific individual, which does raise the question: how did the writer/director decide what a transexual looked like, acted like, thought like, and so on. In the post on the film I made in the What is the Last Movie You Watched? thread, I speculated on the possibility that Woodroof's 'bi-sexual' encounters were with transexuals, rather than men.
Films which are about historical subjects always manipulate the facts for the purposes of drama. In A Man for All Seasons (Fred Zinneman, 1966) the screenplay succeeds in presenting Thomas More as a man of principle, indeed, an heroic character -in real history, he was a politically motivated religious bigot who sent hundreds of people to the gallows without losing a night's sleep.
On the other hand, how many engaging and intelligent films have there been about the AIDS crisis of the 1980s, or more pertinently about the complacency shown by too many young people towards HIV/AIDS today? Very few.
How many films do have a transexual character who, in spite of an assumed lifestyle never made explicit in the film, is a positive role model, and someone with moral purpose? This is not some freak cross-dresser who slashes women to ribbons (Brian de Palma, Dressed to Kill, 1980), or a transexual who shears off the soft, supple flesh of young women in a desperate attempt to re-create himself as a woman (Jonathan Demme, Silence of the Lambs, 1991). For all the weaknesses of historical fact versus dramatic intention, the film is a powerful and moving study. I don't know if a transgendered actor would have done as good a job as Jared Leto, but it is done. It is satisfactory.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
I don't think the issue is whether Jared Leto gave a good performance or not - the issue is whether an effort - at the very least - should have been made to find a trans actress. If the effort was made and unsuccessful then by all means choose DeNiro to play a 20-something trans-woman. But an extremely masculine looking person wasn't chosen, right? Instead a man that the director thinks has feminine qualities is chosen. So if he was going for the 'look' of the person then why not at least audition a trans actress? Or how about really going for the gold - as Danny Boyle did with Slumdog Millionaire - and picking a trans-woman who isn't an established actress?
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rabbiteyes
And it will be the black face period...when cis straight men played trans women.
when white actors wore blackface, black people were not allowed to be actors. also, when white actors wore blackface, they did it to insult black people.
neither of these were the case in dallas buyers club
Quote:
Originally Posted by
runningdownthatdream
Danny Boyle did with Slumdog Millionaire - and picking a trans-woman who isn't an established actress?
the director for dallas buyers club is jean marc vallee so he has different intentions and makes different film choices (and casting) from danny boyle.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
runningdownthatdream
I don't think the issue is whether Jared Leto gave a good performance or not - the issue is whether an effort - at the very least - should have been made to find a trans actress. If the effort was made and unsuccessful then by all means choose DeNiro to play a 20-something trans-woman. But an extremely masculine looking person wasn't chosen, right? Instead a man that the director thinks has feminine qualities is chosen. So if he was going for the 'look' of the person then why not at least audition a trans actress? Or how about really going for the gold - as Danny Boyle did with Slumdog Millionaire - and picking a trans-woman who isn't an established actress?
Harmony Santana would be an obvious choice, in the sense that she has already won much acclaim for her role in Gun Hill Road (Rashaad Green, 2011).But I guess the problem in Hollywood revolves around other things -as an actor is your agent well connected, how many people auditioned for the role? Sometimes even well known actors fall out with the director, producer and get replaced. Theoretically they might have offered it to a transgendered actor and then decided he or she wasn't what they wanted, or any other issues. Did the Producers and Director think of using a transgendered actor from the start? Hard to know.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stavros
Harmony Santana would be an obvious choice, in the sense that she has already won much acclaim for her role in Gun Hill Road (Rashaad Green, 2011).But I guess the problem in Hollywood revolves around other things -as an actor is your agent well connected, how many people auditioned for the role? Sometimes even well known actors fall out with the director, producer and get replaced. Theoretically they might have offered it to a transgendered actor and then decided he or she wasn't what they wanted, or any other issues. Did the Producers and Director think of using a transgendered actor from the start? Hard to know.
Read post 15 by Rabbiteyes for the answer..........
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
runningdownthatdream
Read post 15 by Rabbiteyes for the answer..........
"I found my answer when I listened with jaw dropped to what director Jean-Marc Vallee had to say on CBC Radio about casting a trans person as the role of Rayon in Dallas Buyers Club. “Never,” he said. “Is there any transgender actor? To my knowledge — I don’t know one. I didn’t even think about it”. When the interviewer interjected with, “Of course there are transgender actors,” Vallee answered with, “Which ones? There’s like five, or three, or what — two? I never thought of that. I never thought of hiring a real rodeo guy to play the rodeo Ron Woodruff. And just like in every film — we’re actors, we’re directors. I’m not aiming for the real thing. I’m aiming for an experienced actor who wants to portray the thing.”
Evasive at best, ignorant at worst. On the other hand, maybe there is the banal question: how does anyone get a part in a movie? Agents must play a role here.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Could've gone w/ Laverne Cox.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Yeah...she's in "Orange is the New Black"....a Netflix series.It's very good,and she very good in it....can't wait for next season.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Kind of a ,"Damned if you do and damned if you don't " ,situation.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
...And so, would this supposed trans actor hired to play this role adhere to the script as written and approved by the executive producers? (i.e., the shooting screenplay, as it was eventually shot)...Rabbiteyes, do you live in LA, have you had any interaction with 'industry types'?...well I have lived here my whole life, and I have never met a more intransigent bunch of pricks anywhere...
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
There are plenty of trans-women capable of holding their own on screen. It's all about the inclination and intent of the director.
In Captain Phillips starring Tom Hanks, the director actively sought out and cast real Somalis to play key roles. As an artist particularly a director you want to portray a realism, an authenticity on screen to move the narrative and draw the viewer into your artifice of reality.
Are there men who could play women's roles in movies?? And vice versa?? Of course.
But no matter the talent of the actor, you'd lose some of the authenticity of the character.
The director of DBC sounds like he believes personally that TS are all CD/DQ anyway, so what's the big deal about having Jared Leto starring in one of the primary roles??
Because he couldn't bother to seek out trans-actors, he blithely conjectures TS actors simply do not exist. Real winner there.
TS are actively involved in a modern civil rights struggle not for acceptance, but mere recognition as transgendered people. Not as cross-dressers. Not as drag-queens.
If the character is openly transgender, I think the director has due diligence to at least try to locate a TS to play the role.
At some point in the future I wholeheartedly agree with Rabbiteyes we'll look back at this period where everyone but transgenders were cast to play themselves in the same way we view past White actors in Blackface to play Othello, or wearing red face paint to play Native Americans.
For a trans-woman I understand why it's totally unacceptable for anyone except a TS to play a TS in film.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Its not uncommon for directors to work with certain cast. Christian Bale played a Jewish man in American Hustle. I think it depends on what the director is looking for, a lot times you have a movie that has to make back its profit and sometimes directors while stick with actors who have a track history of stellar performance. Now does that mean that there is no trans actor who could have done the role well, no. I can feel people thinking it should have casted a trans person. (Spoiler alert) I thought the character was trans mtf, but then at one scene when the character was meeting the father, I could see why the director went that direction. The director wanted Leto to be a tv not a ts. Makes a big difference in casting.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tina Francis
...And so, would this supposed trans actor hired to play this role adhere to the script as written and approved by the executive producers? (i.e., the shooting screenplay, as it was eventually shot)...Rabbiteyes, do you live in LA, have you had any interaction with 'industry types'?...well I have lived here my whole life, and I have never met a more intransigent bunch of pricks anywhere...
Actually...yea I do. I was living in hollywood for the last 4 - 5 years (now up in glendale).
I have friends that are writers, directors, actresses, and know tons of visual effects people. I've also been involved in a few films myself (not as an actor, but as more the development side of things...storyboarding, or character concepts / vfx).
Trans people being involved in the shoot could have DEFINITELY shifted the film away from some of the more problematic aspects.
Instead, they had some cis straight guy whos ideas of trans (or women) are rather questionable. Heck, even how he views prostitutes seems rather sketchy.
I still find it insane that so many are arguing that the idea of a trans woman playing a trans woman is unreasonable. Especially when the results of having no trans people (as we have just witnessed) was a rather damning portrayal.
"The other investment Leto made was to get into character as Rayon before he even got the role. Director Jean-Marc Vallée says he “never met Jared Leto. I met Rayon; I don’t know Leto. Jared never showed me Jared. During our first meeting he was Rayon, and he tried to seduce me. He was so into the character and had dressed as Rayon.”"
Are you kidding me? :|
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
this thread has proven to be no different than any other here...everyone so entrenched in their opinion with no actual debate.
rabbiteyes is making nonsensical posts because in one breath she would like trans actors to have fair shot at trans roles and in the other breath she pigeonholes trans actors into trans roles. its a ridiculous POV and contradictory when you read the sum of her posts.
moreover some of the statements about trans actors APPEAR unfounded...giovanni states that there are trans actors capable of holding their own. i know of none. if there are trans actors that have held their own with other big talent, please let me know where to find them. i contest that no trans actor has yet earned mainstream tv or movie success for their acting chops so that statement by giovanni is equally ridiculous.
runningdown is just an idiot who cannot read. i am not even going to bother because those of you who can read clearly see what my point is from my previous posts.
as far as DBC goes...the fact is that the producers did what served them best...hired an actor that would aid them in making the most money. i think they got what they were looking for. jared leto did a fine job with his role AND given his competition for this year's supporting actor award, deserved the trophy.
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Re: The Jared Leto Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rabbiteyes
I still find it insane that so many are arguing that the idea of a trans woman playing a trans woman is unreasonable. Especially when the results of having no trans people (as we have just witnessed) was a rather damning portrayal.
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i'm not saying it is unreasonable...i'm saying it is demeaning for a trans actor to be limited to that type of role because of their personal disposition. moreover, it moves nothing forward and would attract improper attention. the spectacle would be on that actor just because she or he is trans...not for their skill and that makes it far less meaningful than it should be.
that you don't understand that is pretty sad.
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Yes!
I would love to see t-girls in the movies and on the tube, but I suspect that the pool is small, but surely some are available, and like with GG, a good number of models turn into actresses(or at least try to).
