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To anybody who thinks this is the start, it's not - it started when states started banning people from smoking in bars and public places, it's a slippery slope from taking one freedom away and removing the rest.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/03/23...eut/index.html
seanchai
NOW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela
seanchai
wow...I'm a smoker myself and can kind of agree with the no smoking inside but this is just crazy. If they start doing this in Atlanta I'm fucked.
How appropriate...the former governor of the once great state of Texas, now our prez, has a DUI and a cocaine arrest hushed up...not to mention having two daughters with numerous citations for alcohol violations....is this a great country or what?
Looks more and more like 1984 !!!!
Big Brother is watching y.....
*snatched away from his PC by men in black*
Public Intoxication Statute of Texas
49.02 Public Intoxication
"Public Intoxication" means:
A person commits an offense if the person appears in a public place while intoxicated to the degree that the person may endanger the person or another.
"Intoxicated" is defined as:
not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
I thought the whole point of drinking in a bar was to get intoxicated in a SAFE environment. Maybe once you leave, you might be a danger to yourself or to others, but not before. But then, pre-emption, in any context, is never really a good plan, is it?
FK
I know, Angela. But the point is, they were in effect arresting them for drunk driving before they ever got behind the wheel. That's just wrong. I don't drink myself, am alway the designated driver, and am a big supporter of MADD and SADD, but you don't arrest someone because they might do something wrong later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela
FK
What is SADD?
I think MADD is ridiculous, I don't see why parents need money/charity to teach their kids not to drink and drive, the money would be better invested in better public transport and dare I say it, more road blocks and spot checks.
seanchai
This has been going on for... years. Nothing new.
When you give rights to some people, you take from others. It's as simple as that.
I don't understand your post?
What rights given to who? Police, government?
What has been going on for years? Getting arrested in bars for being drunk?
seanchai
FUCK YOU MEGABODY YOU TIT, I LEFT BECAUSE I WAS SICK OF THIS SHIT AND PINING FOR HOME - THEN I GET THERE AND THE ASSHOLES RUNNING THIS COUNTRY HAVE BANNED SMOKING HERE IN BARS (I DON'T SMOKE CIGARETTES BUT LIKE A CIGAR A FEW TIMES A WEEK BUT I AGREE WITH THE RIGHT TO SMOKE IN A PUB, AS I'M A MEMBER OF THE "PEOPLES JUDEAC PARTY OF RIGHTS TO THE FREEDOM OF JUDEA" RIGHT REG?).Quote:
Originally Posted by MegabodyNYC
COMPLACENY SHIT LIKE THIS IS WHAT KEEPS PEOPLE NOT ONLY IN THE USA BUT ELSEWHERE IN STUPID SITUATIONS AND ONLY MAKES IT WORSE - YOU ACTUALLY AGREE IT'S OK TO ARREST SOMEONE IN A PUB BECAUSE THEY'RE DRUNK.
MB, HAVE YOU EVER LIVED OUTSIDE THE USA OR EVEN TAKE A DAY TRIP TO ANOTHER COUNTRY? IT'S NOT THE BEST PLACE TO LIVE - THAT'S THE BIG CON, BUDDY AND YOU BOUGHT RIGHT INTO IT.
CONGRATULATIONS ANOTHER EMPLOYEE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
SEANCHAI
BTW - I WAS ABOUT TO SHOW YOU A TIGHT AND TINY BUT YOU'LL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL LATER IN THE WEEK BECAUSE I HAD TO WASTE MY TIME REFUTING YOUR BOLLOCKS :-)
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET NYC TO DRESS UP BUT I THINK ALLANAH HAS HIS CONTRACT TIGHTER THAN PENELOPE'S ASS.
I SAW THE TV SHOW ON USA BEFORE I LEFT. THANKS FOR MAKING MY GF SICK WHEN YOUR ARM FELL OFF. GOOD SHOW THOUGH.
SEANCHAI
YEAH I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE UP TO - YOU'RE MY ONLY CLAIM TO FAME KNOW THAT CLOONEY DOESN'T INVITE ME OVER FOR A GUINNESS AND FUCKING DANIEL CRAIG DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW ME SINCE HE GOT THE BOND GIG - IT WAS ALL BUDDIES A FEW YEARS AGO BUT YOU KNOW HOW IT GOES.
NYCE, I HEARD IT WAS HIM WHO WROTE THAT BIZARRE ARTICLE IN A COMPLETE MARKETING IDEA FOR ALLANAH ONLY HE SCREWED UP AND FORGOT TO MAKE IT OBVIOUS IT WAS A PARODY.
SEANCHAI
They're, technically, giving rights to people who don't want smoke around them. Even if you don't agree with banning smoking, it's, logically, (and still up for discussion) an equation as such. The right of smoking where ever one wants being stripped away and given to those who want the right to not have ones smoke around them. What "rights" are defined as, these days, is a moot topic, anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
And, yes; getting arrested in bars has been going on for years, as has other strange laws and enforcements. Prohibition. "The War on Drugs". It's all political paranoia. Stupid politics, that's for sure.
WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?!?!?!
Many people are under the assumption that bars in Texas are private establishments, but they're not. In Texas they're considered to be public establishments under the law and are applicable where the public intoxications laws are concerned. And, as many police officers will tell you, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
They're arresting them for public intoxication, not DWI before they enter the car. PI and DWI are both illegal in Texas, and I don't have a problem with that at all, and I drink, but don’t get wasted off my ass like some people do. Just watch the morning news and you'll see horrendous accidents caused by drunk drivers, or troll the streets in your vehicle when the bars and clubs close. You'll see a car here and there swerving off-center in its lane. Not long ago while returning home, I sat for a half hour in a traffic jam in the middle of the day, only to see two mangled cars on the freeway. The accident was caused by a drunken teenager racing another car. A pregnant woman was killed. There are always cases every year where drunken patrons leave a bar on foot to go home, cross the street, and get smacked by a car. In a hospital visitor’s area one night, I overheard doctors trying to explain to a woman that her husband had no face to repair. He left a bar drunk, stepped out onto the highway, and got mowed down by an eighteen wheeler.
Intoxicated pedestrians can also be a nuisance and even a danger to the public. I have a police scanner, and listen from time to time while I’m working. Yesterday there was a call put out on an intoxicated individual banging his fists on the windows of a small business. It was only 1:00 in the afternoon.
Contrary to what Seanchai may believe, this is not an infringement upon our civil liberties in this state. This is not ‘just the start’ as Seanchai would have it, as I’ve lived here my entire life. That has been the law here for as long as I can remember, and DWI’s have increased here in recent times. The state decided to use that law to perform stings to curb DWI’s and PI’s. They always do this temporarily and usually stop it after a while. Sometimes there is a need for ‘zero tolerance’ to make communities safer for everyone.
Now in Texas, you can be wasted in your home or yard, and there’s nothing the police can do about it, unless you’re causing a disturbance.
The law is simple, and is there for the good of the community at large. These are not Storm Troopers invading our private lives on the order of a government with totalitarian aspirations. Even the police who are arresting these individuals drink. You get arrested when you’ve gone too far with it. And all they do is lock you up for the night to sober up, and then release you in the morning. And for the most part, the police are still pretty reasonable and tolerant. Even if they know you’ve been drinking, as long as you have your wits about you, they’ll pretty much leave you alone.
It’s been that way for a long long time, and for good reason.
Mega, I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding at least part of your statement's intent. I've spent a good deal of time outside the United States, and I have to say that this is not – categorically speaking – the best nation to live in. If you want to talk about economic opportunity and upward mobility, then, yes, I would agree that this nation provides more opportunities than any other. However, so far as quality of life related issues go, the United States is definitely not the best country to live in. Canada and a host of European nations provide the same degree of freedoms we enjoy without some of our more pervasive social ills.Quote:
Originally Posted by MegabodyNYC
-Quinn
That really doe stake the piss. You know if they tried it here in the UK, there would probably be a revolt.
Only in America...
You're being arrested before the crime? If you proved you didn't have a car can you be arrested?
We all agree that drunk driving is a crime that's not in question but how about we arrest all women before getting into cars for reckless driving and operating an auto without due care and attention?
How about we arrest every tranny who steps out of her apartment dressed slutty for the possiblility that she's going to solicit to prostitute.
It is a liberty being taken away from you and it's ridiculous. The mind boggles what people will sit back and take next.
seanchai
well i used to bartend back in the day......when the cops were called , it usually ended up on them trying to calmly try to get them to get a ride or call a cab, where arresting would be last resort......but what is worse of a crime the police do is hang out cross the street from bars in their patrol cars profiling for dui arrests....
why i dont go out and drink in ct cause the BAC is so low in ct .....1 beer and u could end up in the back of a patrol car
One goes to a bar to get hammered, man. Hell, half os probably would not have been conceaved, had there not been people getting drunk at a bar.
Just watch, you'll get pigs comming into your home when you're drunk in your own house. :roll:
Anyone think we're gonna end up like the America in "Escape From L.A." soon?
Hell, I can se eit one day where you'll get federal agents knocking down your door and slamming you face down to the floor for eating baked potatos with sour cream, cause the sour cream is loaded with fat :P
and Megabody......onething you seem to forget about America is that anyone, you, me, seanchai, your grandma, anybody has the right to get up and say what's fucked up with the country. You see, I don't accept some concept blindly without questioning......I stop and actually think, "Hey, why are they doing this, and is it really needed or practical?"
Before you grab the torches, pitchfork and nooses, stop and think about why someone bitches about the country or its policies. Trust me, we'd actually have less problems and more progress for a change. :idea:
:smh :screwy
I am wavering about liking this or not. If you are drunk in a bar it is illegal. Even if you are not driving, you could start a fight or harm yourself or others. But, what if you are there with friends and one is a designated driver? I think a lot of the outrage is people think that because you are in a bar, you are not in "public". In Teaxs and I assume most other states you are.
in my state you can be arrested as long as you in a certain distance of your car with keys in your hand. Yes you aren't drunk driving YET, but they arrest people because the average person will simply lie and say they weren't going to drive (then usually wait til the officer leaves and then drive).
One of the MAJOR issues of smoking in bars from the employee perspective is the damage it does to the health of a bartender, bouncer, etc. Most clubs/ bars are usually pretty packed, the oxygen levels are extremely low period-then you add smoke to the equation. It is a nice recipe to destroy the shit out of a bartender's lungs. I love a great cigar every now and then, but I'm sure my bartender loves his life a little bit more
Every state's laws are different and this by no means it will ever be applied to every state. It would be nearly impossible for the Federal government to make every bar in the ENTIRE country a public place. It's pretty fuckin stupid also.
Public transportation may be a great thing in Europe, but it is a major failure in the states (as far as lightrail systems are concerned). There's always the bus I guess, but how many buses are going to the burbs after 10p.m.?
Again, it is not only illegal to drive while intoxicated (DWI), but is also illegal to be intoxicated in public (PI). Bars are considered to be public (not private) establishments in Texas, so when you're intoxicated in a bar, they can throw you in jail. DWI's are on the rise in Texas, so they're using the Public Intoxication law in and around bars as a 'zero tolerance' strategy to avert DWI's as well as PI's.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
I understand what you're saying, it's illegal to be drunk in a bar. I get that - and I get that you agree with it because it is a law.
Just because it's a law doesn't make it right? Doesn't make it part of the slippery slope?
I'm all for stopping DUI before they get in the car but going into a bar and arresting people for public intoxication is frankly, bollocks and frankly, only something that could happen in a country where the law supports that the religous right are able to assert their morals (not laws) onto the rest of us.
seanchai
I see your point, but these stings are in the interest of public safety, and don't stem from enforcement of a moral standard. I've lived here for a long time, and the stings will end soon enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
What a strange thing for the Texas Alcohol Commission to do. It's completely unenforcable to any real extent, so they must be caving to some special interest for whatever reasons they may have, or the commissioner is attempting to garner political clout for eventually obtaining some higher office.
I'd like to see them set up check points for people leaving country music festivals or concerts, and actually arrest all the drunks. How about those rodeos they have down there, or any sporting event? Hell, just go into a decent sized urban nightclub around closing time, try pulling all the people who are drunk, you would either need the national guard on hand, or be prepared for a riot. Weekend nights on any college campus, pretty much anywhere on St. Patricks day, 4th of July, on and on and on. . .
Ridiculous.
Inhouston, the whole point was, how is someone who is drunk in a bar a danger to himself or to others, when the whole point of having bars is to have a safe, legal place to get intoxicated? If the police were to set up outside a bar and arrest them as they fumbled for their car key, or stumbled off the sidewalk, that would be one thing. If the management called the police because they were a disturbance in the bar, that would be another thing. But they are arresting them in the bar, before they do anything other than become intoxicated. Thats a very different and wrong thing, entirely. Someone should have to do some overtly criminal act and being arrested should not be subject to the whim or arbitrary caprice of the officer.
FK
What about the dangers of second hand liquor? You could be in, I don't know, a karaoke bar. Hey! It happens. And maybe you're belting out some long note and some guy accidentally spills his drink in your mouth.
Or some girl mistakenly splashes your face with her drink (never happened to me). That's gotta sting the old peepers.
What if you're allergic to alcohol and the only reason you went into the bar (not in California) is so you could smoke? Some guy accdentally dumps 3 fingers of single malt into your coke and the next thing you know...
OK. These are all stupid in order to point out that the law is stupid. Isn't Texas the only state that still allows open containers in cars? I lived in NC when they outlawed that in 2001.
Still, it could be worse. No Smoking in Calabassas, CA if you're within 20 ft of a public space. You want to suck on a fag out on your balcony (that's Brittish slang, btw) and you happen to have an apartment that overlooks the pool or common area - not gonna happen.
How long before the Mormons outlaw drinking in Salt Lake? When will Marijuana become illegal? What? It already is? Why is that? Are they afraid people will smoke and drive and accidentally miss their exits on the freeway? Are they afraid pot heads will cause the traffic to go slower? In L.A. - I don't think that's possible. Yeah.. could someone actually explain why marijuana is illegal and alcohol isn't? I mean, I can see Crystal Meth being illegal - those guys are just nuts on that stuff. And Heroin - just watch trainspotting or that movie about the sex pistols. I've seen some nut jobs on coke, too. And Alcohol. Oh wait. There goes that line of thinking.
How about this. You can [drink smoke ingest consume partake] at home or a licensed [bar club establishment] or your friend's [ house apartment tent cardboard box steam grate overpriced-condo], but you can't leave those places until you can pass a substance test, or you are in the custody of a licensed sobrietor. I just made that up. A licensed sobrietor is someone who is always sober (like a permanently designated driver) and can see you safely from one location to another, securing you at the destination if necessary or staying on to watch you. These guys are going to be a little pricey, but if you can afford an 8-ball, you can afford a sobrietor.
Should you leave your intoxicarium without a sobrietor or without passing a substance test, you will face penalties like jail and hefty fines. The owner of the intoxicarium will similarly face penalties. The other guests at a non-licensed intoxicarium (your friend's party) are also susceptable to penalties. Now it becomes everybody's problem.
Hey - I'm not saying this is a solution, the solution, or even a good idea. I am saying the current situation isn't working. Big announcement yesterday on the War on Drugs. They identified 50 columbian narco-trafficer type people and arrested three of them. When was the last announcement? How's that war coming? How much have we spent? How much have we stopped? How close are we to being done? Have we really made a difference at all?
Don't go all nuts on me. My ideas on just about any political issue will probably give you pause. Might even lead to some real solutions.
The problem is not prohibition of alcohol or prevention of car accident. Alcohol is a drug, like cannabis, heroin, LSD, crack, ecstasy…. Some countries have prohibited the use of some of them and some others have chosen some others to be restricted.
The problem can be stated in this way: is human being able to live without any “drug” or, in a reverse way, do you accept all your life without “drug” and their ability to change your perception of the world. From historical standpoint, it has never been observed (when posting, I’m unable to remember the, how far I can remember, mushroom of the Indian-Europeans, "soma" or something like that). Human being seems to have a need for something “unreal” and cannot accept the crude reality, as is. They apparently need for an escape.
Note that animals are not different from human. Once they have tasted such product, they are addicted. It should point out that’s a universal need for a given level of consciousness.
What we all would like is to take benefit of these products without suffering the consequences on health and sanity. It’s not possible. So, do we accept that, in benefit of our hypothetic future mental and corporal health, any possibility is denied to all the good sensation that we need instantaneously, while aware or their consequences. Is it really a question for politicians and not for yourself? What politicians, police and others administrative officers have to do with your decision on your life?
I’m also quite well aware about the physiologist aspects of addiction and that the recuring question of protecting people from themselfes arises soon after. But I think it’s only a secondary point, the first point being our desire for another reality, what could be its form, alcohol fog ,just being able to sleep tonight, or hallucinogen dream. You can recuperate from one addiction, but dive in another one, obsession for sanity being one of the possibility, since, I told before, it doesn’t exist to be free from such tendencies, except in mental disorder.
I don't really understand it, since i live in Europe, but some ppl try to say that it is ok to arrest someone for the potentiality of being involved in crime while he is 'intoxicated'?
The 'Thought Police' was mentioned in Orwel's 1984, and everybody hoped it was just fiction.
Unfortunately not...
So what is the future in the states?
Getting arrested because u have an IQ of 155 which makes you a potential crime mind?
Getting arrested because you are very handsome which makes you a potential danger to teenage virgins?
Getting arrested because you THOUGHT of doing something?
Ok, what the hell....Ban alcohol, ban cigaretes, ban sex, ban alternative lifestyles....
And since some US citizens tolerate with this kind of facism, it is very OK with me.
Luckily, for the rest of us, there are many countries that are still democratic.
We're still, at least in theory, a democratic republic, or whatever we've morphed into.
The problem is the majority of people who vote are pretty dumb, at least lately.
Yea, you really think that the smart people actually voted for Dubya? I didn't :P Democracy works only with a majority agrees on something....I doubt Billybob and Jethro are of the majority :PQuote:
Originally Posted by hondarobot
That is a problem in every country, believe me....Quote:
Originally Posted by hondarobot
On the same note let's not forget our old friend the Patriot Act.
On the same note let's not forget our old friend the Patriot Act.