John Travolta- Male Double Standard

Most of the folks on this board have probably heard about John Travolta and his interest in gay sex with all the allegations that are being thrown at him. This got me thinking about why a male actor in Hollywood has to keep his sexuality a secret whereas many female actresses brag about being bisexual or having had lesbian sexual experiences. Why does society accept female homosexuality while attacking male homosexuality?

I ask the above question because I often hear transsexual women complain on this board that they cannot find a male who will be in a relationship with them. Many transsexual women do not seem to understand that if a man publicly states that he is in a relationship with a transsexual, he will lose many of his friends and family members because society believes that men should not be able to explore their sexuality like women. I remember reading about a man in the UK who married a transsexual women from Malaysia. After his marriage, he lost his job at a school because people were uncomfortable with the fact that he was with a transsexual. Being with a transsexual is not an easy choice for most men because of society's intolerance. I hope more transsexual women will cut some slack for us men.

I wish someone like John Travolta could just admit to society that he is gay or bisexual without society trying to harass him. Women are not harassed for their sexuality but unfortunately, men are.

Rather than telling his most intimate secrets to every masseuse and pool boy he meets, why doesn't he just write a book and make a mint?

Society is designed in favor of straight men, who are a lot less intimidated by lesbian and bisexual women than by tran-attracted but straight or gay, bisexual, pansexual and queer men.

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Originally Posted by Jackal

Society is designed in favor of straight men, who are a lot less intimidated by lesbian and bisexual women than by tran-attracted but straight or gay, bisexual, pansexual and queer men.

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Not so much "in favour of" as designed by straight men. I can to a certain extent understand the perceived but illusory threat straight men might feel from gay or bisexual men, but surely they should feel no threat from trans-attracted men?

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

Not so much "in favour of" as designed by straight men. I can to a certain extent understand the perceived but illusory threat straight men might feel from gay or bisexual men, but surely they should feel no threat from trans-attracted men?

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I should have said designed by and in favor of straight men, but
I've known straight guys who have denigrated other straight guys who are trans-attracted; many straight guys are transphobic and only view "csigender women as real women."

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Originally Posted by Jackal

I should have said designed by and in favor of straight men, but
I've known straight guys who have denigrated other straight guys who are trans-attracted; many straight guys are transphobic and only view "csigender women as real women."

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I'm aware that straight guys denigrate those who are trans-attracted, but why? There's no threat there.

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

but why? There's no threat there.

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"Us" vs "them/him".

Empowering themselves by denigrating others.

Travolta is catching hell because he's MARRIED and cheating on his wife.
If he were just in the closet like Kevin Spacey or Tom Selleck, there wouldn't be such an uproar.
It's only recently, probably the last 10 years, that the public and Hollywood has been tolerant of a known gay male or female actor. Most of the time it's a career killer, or at least it used to be.

Personally I prefer NOT knowing who an actor's sleeping with because if I know an actor is gay in his private life, it's hard to believe his character is romantically interested in a female co-star on screen.

To maintain the illusion it's best for all parties involved not to know all the specific details of an actor's private life.

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Travolta is catching hell because he's MARRIED and cheating on his wife.
If he were just in the closet like Kevin Spacey or Tom Selleck, there wouldn't be such an uproar.
It's only recently, probably the last 10 years, that the public and Hollywood has been tolerant of a known gay male or female actor. Most of the time it's a career killer, or at least it used to be.

Personally I prefer NOT knowing who an actor's sleeping with because if I know an actor is gay in his private life, it's hard to believe his character is romantically interested in a female co-star on screen.

To maintain the illusion it's best for all parties involved not to know all the specific details of an actor's private life.

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Actors and actresses are always pretending to be romantically interested in each other in their films. Their real life sexuality would actually have no impact on their acting in a film, after all, films are make believe.

I know that Travolta is cheating on his wife, but perhaps, he prefers being with men. Because of pressure from society, he may have married his wife to look "straight" like a lot of gay men have done in the past.

I'd be pretty upset if a gay guy pretended to be straight and married me. It's like spending years and years with someone who you think loves you but in reality isn't even attracted to you at all. It's sad for the girl who thinks her husband loves her, and the guy who's in the closet pretending to like girls. I think they should just stop pressuring him to admit something he obviously isn't comfortable admitting. I think lesbian women endure a lot of harassment too, and I think it's unfair to say they don't.

Question: Do we have any real evidence Travolta has cheated on his wife with men? The most recent allegations appeared to be total B.S. Not to mention that he and his wife have remained together for over twenty years. I doubt he's hidden whatever he's into from her for all these years.

And to answer the question, I think many men view homosexuality as a threat to their masculinity; hence men who engage in it are ridiculed and ostracized. Perhaps men sub-conciously worry that bisexual men may try to rape them, hence why gay and bisexual men are refused camaraderie. And also why those who engage in it often keep it a secret. Men generally have an inner revulsion to being dominated by other men, and being raped by another man is the ultimate form of domination and subordination (ever watched two puppies try to hump one another?). I'm pro-gay rights, but I'm sometimes slightly uncomfortable around gay men and gay couples. There is no sensible reason for it, but nevertheless it's there.

Lesbians pose no such threat to men--hence why men don't mind. Women also haven't historically raped one another with anywhere near the frequency as males have--so I don't think that they have that inner revulsion toward homosexuality that festers within men.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister

I know that Travolta is cheating on his wife, but perhaps, he prefers being with men. Because of pressure from society, he may have married his wife to look "straight" like a lot of gay men have done in the past.

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True, but at this point they've been married over twenty years. Even if Travolta wanted to keep the charade going--I think his wife would have figured it out and moved on by now. Kelly Preston doesn't need Travolta like the wife of a Senator would need her husband. She's arguably as big of a star as he is and doesn't need his support. Hugh Jackman, IMO, is in the closet. I don't know about Travolta.

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Travolta is catching hell because he's MARRIED and cheating on his wife.
If he were just in the closet like Kevin Spacey or Tom Selleck, there wouldn't be such an uproar.
It's only recently, probably the last 10 years, that the public and Hollywood has been tolerant of a known gay male or female actor. Most of the time it's a career killer, or at least it used to be.

Personally I prefer NOT knowing who an actor's sleeping with because if I know an actor is gay in his private life, it's hard to believe his character is romantically interested in a female co-star on screen.

To maintain the illusion it's best for all parties involved not to know all the specific details of an actor's private life.

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Even Barney Stinson? I think Hollywood's just starting to see it doesn't matter.

But, this isn't only Hollywood. I personally know a man who came out as "bi" and his wife left him and everyone doesn't believe he even likes women, at all. Forget what he says, everyone else knows better than he does about himself...

Honestly, I don't like pointing fingers, but most guys I know who have known friends in Travolta's scenario, get a little put-off by it, but they get over it soon enough. It's the GG's who can't handle it. There's just something that causes them to just sort of blow up with the concept of a man actually being bisexual. Maybe they're too weak to get it. Maybe they're listening to their gay friends who have too much "wishful thinking" that the man is completely gay.

I don't know why, but all I know is that few GGs I've ever met actually believe a man can be bisexual, and those who did were the most strong-minded women I've ever met. And, this affects straight men and the rest of the world, since most straight men fall in line with their female friends, most gay men wants most bi men to be with guys only (obviously) and most lesbians don't give a sh*t.

I am always surprised that people are still surprised to find out some man had sexual contact with another man. Its like being surprised some guy cheated on his wife.

It's never been a secret that he liked guys. Carrie Fisher kind of outed him on that in the 80's. I don't think it really matters that much, Will Smith, Tom Cruise, & Keanu Reeves, all had the "gay" rumors. It may be true and it may not be, but I don't think it's really hurt any of them at the box office. The trick, I think, as with everything else in life, is not to rock the boat with the public. If you are private about your private life, most people don't really care. Neil Patrick Harris is the prime example. He's out, but he's not, and I hate this term, in your face about it, the way someone like Elen DeGeneris was. Her coming out was in all kinds of magazines, there was a buildup to it on her sitcom, she gave plenty of interviews, etc. NPH Didn't, there were a couple stories, a couple interviews, and now he quickly moves on about it when he's asked. NPH's career keeps going strong and I still can believe he brands hookers with an NPH on their asses, Elen DeGeneris has a semi-popular talk show having been downgraded from actress and comedian.


Here's the one thing that will mess with your mind though. I guarantee you'll never watch Grease the same way again.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...-sleeping.html

Hmmm...

family guy - gay thoughts - YouTube

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Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister

I know that Travolta is cheating on his wife, but perhaps, he prefers being with men. Because of pressure from society, he may have married his wife to look "straight" like a lot of gay men have done in the past.

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Here's what I dont get. I dont understand why more people dont say he is, or may be bisexual. If a male has a girlfriend or wife, and then has sex with a man, most people say something he is really gay, and only was with women to hide, that he wa gay. But if it was reversed, they wouldn't automatically say the woman was really gay. Even a lot of t-girls fall into the same thinking mode. They think that men only like them because they are really gay, even if they have wives and girl friends. So men that like t-girls are often put in the same category. Even though a t-girl can be indistinguishable from a cisgendered woman, some will wrongly say that the man who would date a t-girl really is gay. Even here, many people need to open their minds about sexuality.

One post-op you posted here a few times, nearly drove me crazy. Even though she identified as bisexual herself, she insisted that a man who wanted to have an encounter with a pre-op with his girlriend, was in fact, gay.

Two issues intertwined here - the issues of Travolta specifically (which I cannot comment on) and the wider issue of male prejudice against the gay or bisexual.

I think insecurity has something to do with it. For some reason men feel their own "masculinity" is in some way threatened by men who are "effeminate" or whose sexual interests are directed towards other men (and for these insecure men - the transgendered are seen effectively as men.) They are less bothered by gay women (except if their wives or girlfriends "come out") to the same extent because many men fantasise about women with women or a threesome with two women who are bisexual. Few hetereosexual men fantasise abut a trio with a second man in the frame.

This insecurity makes the patriarchal society see homosexuality as a disease or an aberration. Something can be cured or confronted and by force or persuasion driven out.

Many men, in societies so prejudiced that homosexuality is illegal (until the 1960s the case in the UK) and, in some cases punished by death (some islamic countries) , either hide (in the closet ) or hide their sexuality from themselves and get into hetereosexual relationships when their true natures would seek a different expression. Some become priests - explaining the peculiarly high number of cases of sex abuse levelled against Roman Catholic clerics.

I still think Travolta is bi since he is sexually intimate with Kelly Preston. I agree there is a reflexive judgement in the media that if a married male celeb has an extramarital affair with another man, he's automatically gay when actually he's more likely bisexual.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister

Most of the folks on this board have probably heard about John Travolta and his interest in gay sex with all the allegations that are being thrown at him. This got me thinking about why a male actor in Hollywood has to keep his sexuality a secret whereas many female actresses brag about being bisexual or having had lesbian sexual experiences. Why does society accept female homosexuality while attacking male homosexuality?

I ask the above question because I often hear transsexual women complain on this board that they cannot find a male who will be in a relationship with them. Many transsexual women do not seem to understand that if a man publicly states that he is in a relationship with a transsexual, he will lose many of his friends and family members because society believes that men should not be able to explore their sexuality like women. I remember reading about a man in the UK who married a transsexual women from Malaysia. After his marriage, he lost his job at a school because people were uncomfortable with the fact that he was with a transsexual. Being with a transsexual is not an easy choice for most men because of society's intolerance. I hope more transsexual women will cut some slack for us men.

I wish someone like John Travolta could just admit to society that he is gay or bisexual without society trying to harass him. Women are not harassed for their sexuality but unfortunately, men are.

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Because Hollywood is a fantasy world, it ruins the fantasy if lead males are outright in their sexual orientation. I wish there were more John Barrowmans out there. Society is a shame...

So if you believe the accuser. Travolta told him, you can't get ahead in hollywood without sleeping with someone in power.

Picture John Wayne, on his knees giving some bald 5'3" jewish guy a bj......or vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister

Most of the folks on this board have probably heard about John Travolta and his interest in gay sex with all the allegations that are being thrown at him. This got me thinking about why a male actor in Hollywood has to keep his sexuality a secret whereas many female actresses brag about being bisexual or having had lesbian sexual experiences. Why does society accept female homosexuality while attacking male homosexuality?

I ask the above question because I often hear transsexual women complain on this board that they cannot find a male who will be in a relationship with them. Many transsexual women do not seem to understand that if a man publicly states that he is in a relationship with a transsexual, he will lose many of his friends and family members because society believes that men should not be able to explore their sexuality like women. I remember reading about a man in the UK who married a transsexual women from Malaysia. After his marriage, he lost his job at a school because people were uncomfortable with the fact that he was with a transsexual. Being with a transsexual is not an easy choice for most men because of society's intolerance. I hope more transsexual women will cut some slack for us men.

I wish someone like John Travolta could just admit to society that he is gay or bisexual without society trying to harass him. Women are not harassed for their sexuality but unfortunately, men are.

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I get that...I suppose, although I don't spend a lot of time lamenting about Travolta's trials and tribulations or anyone in Hollywood for that matter. I did have empathy for the situation with his son, but this is of his own doing. Just a guess, but if he was having a quiet affair with another dude, I don't think it would be all that shocking. The whole pool boy thing plays right into a stereotype. That don't play well outside of Sodom and Gomorra

I'm so sick of celebrity news, but the people who follow it piss me off even more.
It's not news. I don't need to know where Lady Gaga eats or who her love interest is. If John Travolta is bisexual or gay, it has absolutely no bearing on his acting skill. It's incredibly unfortunate that his sexual orientation could have a determinable bearing on his acting career, but it does. The stupid fact of the matter is that if he were to publicly come-out, half of his fans would refuse to watch any new movie he appeared in, and directors take that into consideration.

It's not surprising that celebrities feel the need to hide most everything they do. They aren't necessarily trying to keep their activities a secret, but with paparazzi following them everywhere, one little digression becomes a world news story. It's not that they don't want anyone knowing... it's that they don't want EVERYONE knowing.

That aside, I think most of the negative attention male bisexual and gay culture receive from society is due to the nature of man-on-man sex. People think it's dirty and disease-ridden. Nevermind that women have ass holes too and likely experiment with them as well, it's just not something society assumes when they think of woman-on-woman sex.
Men react differently to gay porn than women do. Even if a woman isn't necessarily into watching man-on-man, most of them aren't totally repulsed by it either. In fact, I know quite a few "straight" women who admit to liking and watching gay porn. Others just think it's comical, but most men react by leaving the room or badmouthing gay sex to protect their straight self-image.

Changing the way society sees male homosexuality or bisexuality is a two-part process, but it's nearly impossible. You'd have to prove to society that gay sex isn't dirty, then you'd have to virtually flood the market with gay porn to desensitize the brunt of straight men in the world. Even then, every guy has his own opinion and it'd be much harder to sway them individually. Likely won't happen.

Most straight guys figure gay men will treat them the way they themselves treat women- that is, like sex objects. And this freaks them the fuck out.” I copied that from someone else's post on another forum.


I knew Travolta was gay from "Saturday Night Fever",, very poof character indeed, all done up in a white suit.

[QUOTE=GrimFusion;1151766]
Nevermind that women have ass holes too and likely experiment with them as well, it's just not something society assumes when they think of woman-on-woman sex.


That's a funny line, Grim...I think I'll borrow it. I've never quite heard it put like that.

Well, you have to look at it as Hollywood views it. For Hollywood, it is all about the almighty dollar. Since most Americans think homosexuality is morally wrong and unnatural, subsequently fewer Americans are going to pay $12 to see him in a movie.

Back in the day, that would've had Hollywood strip him of his A-List status and force him into retirement or independent/small budget movies.

Thankfully in his case, he's not a draw anymore so I think his career / legacy is safe should he choose to come out or annouce his bisexuality.