Black Transgender Not Allowed to Claim Self-Defense ...

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/4/2...er_woman_faces

A transgender African-American woman is set to go on trial next week on charges of second-degree murder for an altercation after she was reportedly physically attacked and called racist and homophobic slurs outside a Minneapolis bar last year. Chrishaun "CeCe" McDonald received 11 stitches to her cheek and was reportedly interrogated without counsel and placed in solitary confinement following her arrest. There were reports that the dead victim, Dean Schmitz, had a swastika tattooed on his chest. McDonald’s supporters say the case is symptomatic of the bias against transgender people and African Americans in the criminal justice system. "People were very enraged about what had happened to her and the refusal of Hennepin County to recognize her right to self-defense," says Katie Burgess, executive director of Trans Youth Support Network, who has helped draw attention to the case and notes transgender people of color are twice as likely to experience discrimination as their white peers. We also speak with Rai’vyn Cross, one of McDonald’s best friends.

http://outfrontcolorado.com/ofcblog/...56_320_240.jpg
Schmitz’s brother said in a statement that Schmitz is prone to making racist remarks depending “on his mood.”

This is so disturbing and sad.. not to mention scary. She's been locked up almost a whole year already! I cant imagine what she must b going through, but her trial starts monday. Hopefully justice will be served and this horrible injustice committed against her will be rectified... I cant believe this is the reality in America...

This is a travesty of justice plain and simple. She was verbally and physically attacked and simply defended herself.

Sad to say I have no problem believing this happened in America.

What do they think she attacked some skinhead?

i am lost for words i watch her response video and she's been in jail for almost a year. three against one is for punks, no women or (WIMP) men should challenge a person or pick a fight with a person they have no knowledge of knowing what that person is capable of doing

Lets not forget she has no criminal record and was attend college

Self-defense is a claim that can be raised at trial not prior. She really needs a good attorney. She has the case and the attention in her favor. As Candy said, no criminal record and good opinion in the community with her educational career will really help.

She should be able to win with not much trouble. Sadly law comes down to affording good representation.

The main thing is Montana has no duty retreat, which was passed around 2009. That means a person doesn’t have a duty to retreat to a safe place before defending themselves. Once they retreated they can then use force equal to the force given (in most states) meets the exemptions.

Using a weapon, empty bottle raises the actions to the level of deadly force a person in most jurisdictions with no duty to retreat can retaliate with deadly force. Therefore excusing the second murder, which by the description is based on the heat of passion (part of the involuntary manslaughter).

If she can get a good lawyer she will win her case and probable sue under civil. Probable issues on her arrest if she had indicated for counsel after her Miranda rights, violation of 4 amendment rights.

Sorry for legal spat (a law degree does has it advantages). If you more on my thoughts you can pm me, I don't feel like posting long answer.

[QUOTE=seanchai;1132129] ...and placed in solitary confinement following her arrest. http://outfrontcolorado.com/ofcblog/...56_320_240.jpg

I have no idea as to the merits of this case, but it is silly to complain that a TS was placed in solitary confinement. If you are a jail administrator do you place her with the boys or the girls. Placing her with the boys will be promlematic for her, and placing her with the girls will be problematic for the girls. Also complaining that she has been in jail for one year doesn't work either. The accused can either post bail or if unable to post bail has the right to demand a speedy trial (if she has been sitting in jail her counsel has been putting in continuances).

Strange.
Minneapolis is a pretty progressive city, but if your looking for some reasonable explanation........don't. Justice is not always even handed. Having had several bouts with the legal system, I can atest to that. There's a case in NYC now...a white middle aged soccer Mom was arrested for running a high end call girl service. I have no idea if she was...or wasn't a madame, but I know the bail seems exessive at 2 million. She still can't post it.

The vid and the article are pretty light on facts, but if she was defending herself as her friends claim.....I hope she's aquited.

CeCe McDonald: Black, Transgender Woman Faces Murder Trial as Supporters Allege Self-Defense - YouTube

Awful story and in a way bothers me more than the Trayvon Martin murder.

Justice and the legal system aren't one in the same.
I wish someone like Rachel Maddow would give this story some coverage.

This is so wrong and crazy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Awful story and in a way bothers me more than the Trayvon Martin murder.

Justice and the legal system aren't one in the same.
I wish someone like Rachel Maddow would give this story some coverage.

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I can't find any other coverage apart from Democracy Now. Has the mainstream press covered it? And nothing from Rachel Maddow as far as I know.

CeCe McDonald: Black, Transgender Woman Faces Murder Trial as Supporters Allege Self-Defense - YouTube

Support grows for CeCe McDonald as trial date nears

By Imani Henry

Published Apr 11, 2012 9:35 PM


Tens of thousands of people across the U.S. and around the world have mobilized to demand the arrest of Trayvon Martin’s killer, George Zimmerman. Because Zimmerman maintains that he acted in self-defense, he has not been arrested by the Sanford, Fla., police department or charged by the prosecutor.
http://www.workers.org/2012/us/CeCe-McDonald_0301.jpg

CeCe McDonald

The legal justification of self-defense in the U.S has not worked in the same way for most people of color, women and lesbian/gay/bi/trans people, many of whom survive brutal bigoted attacks and then are arrested and convicted for defending themselves. John White, an African-American father living in Long Island, N.Y., was convicted of murder for protecting his son from an angry white mob in 2006. The New Jersey 7, young Black lesbians who defended themselves against a vicious anti-lesbian attack, were arrested and four of them sentenced to from three-and-a-half to 11 years in prison.
This holds true in the case of Chrishaun “CeCe” McDonald, a 23-year-old African-American trans woman who was attacked by patrons of a Minneapolis tavern on June 5 of last year. While McDonald and her friends were on their way to a nearby grocery store, the patrons assaulted them with racist and anti-LGBT slurs. Many of the vicious remarks were directed at McDonald, as a Black trans woman. All of McDonald’s friends were people of color and youths, while those who attacked them were all white and older.
Desperate for help and covered in blood from having a glass mug smashed in her face, it was McDonald who first approached police arriving on the scene. The police arrested her and to this day have made no arrests against her attackers. And while there is no physical evidence tying her to the stabbing of Dean Schmitz, one of the men who attacked her, McDonald now faces second-degree murder charges.
As McDonald’s April 30 trial date approaches, national outrage has strengthened the political campaign to have the charges dropped.
“Our goal is to deliver a petition with 10,000 signatures on April 24 to Michael Freeman, the Hennepin County attorney, demanding he drop the charges against CeCe,” Billy Navarro Jr., an organizer with the CeCe McDonald Support Committee based in Minneapols, told Workers World. On April 24, McDonald must appear in court for a pre-trial hearing. “Young people from the Trans Youth Support Network have planned a ‘dance party’ protest right in front of Freeman’s office on April 26. [McDonald] is a valued community member, and we want to show that there is support for her not only here but also around the country.”
CeCe ‘a leader and role model’
“CeCe in many ways is a leader and role model. Back when this happened, the newspapers called her a man and only used her birth name. We all know her as CeCe, so it took a few days before the community sprang into action. It has been hard on our community not having her with us,” said Navarro.
McDonald was born in Chicago in 1989 and came out as a trans person at the age of 14. After moving to Minneapolis, she became active in the community, often participating in panels against racism and trans oppression. Talented in fashion design, CeCe had been pursuing her associate’s degree in fashion at a local college for the last two years. She supported herself through a part-time job at a café.
One of McDonald’s most important contributions was taking care of younger LGBT youth. According to Navarro: “She was the one with stable housing and finances, so she took in people younger than her so they wouldn’t end up on the streets. She created a sense of family for them. … Some of those young people were forced to go back to living in hostile, anti-gay family situations or are now surfing from couch to couch.”
Another thing that has been hard for McDonald is that her birth family lives far away. “CeCe is a fighter and is generally so strong, but this is one thing she really gets emotional about,” said Navarro. “She misses her mother and siblings in Chicago so much, and they are really supportive of her. But it is so expensive for them to travel here for her court dates. We are trying to raise money or have miles donated to bring her family here for the trial on April 30.”
Growing national campaign
“Since this whole thing started, we have packed the courtroom, the hallway and rallied outside at every court date,” said Navarro. “The biggest one drew over 100 supporters. We want to have people from all over the Midwest come out for both the pre-trial hearing on April 24 and the first day of trial on April 30.”
The committee is seeking endorsements as well as letters of solidarity to be sent to Freeman from individuals, unions and political groups. Midwest groups such as OutFront Minnesota, the African-American and African Studies Department of the University of Minnesota, the Trans Youth Support Network, the Women’s, Gender and Sexuality Studies Department of Macalester College, the Women’s Prison Book Project and the Wisconsin Bail Out the People Movement have joined the effort.
Nationally, groups like the Transgender Gender Variance Intersex Justice Project, the Transgender Law Center in California and Queers for Economic Justice in New York have called for the charges to be dropped. Trans historian and author Leslie Feinberg has begun a call within the labor movement for labor union activists and unions to send solidarity statements. Support committees and activist groups are raising funds and holding events in Brooklyn and Buffalo, N.Y.; Bloomington, Ind.; Chicago; San Francisco and Oakland, Calif.; and Boston.
“We have gotten pictures from the International Women’s Day march on March 31 in New York City that carried signs about CeCe, and we have even been in touch with activists in Paris who are building support around CeCe’s case,” said Navarro. “Between now and April 30, we need events, fundraisers and to get CeCe’s name out all over the press. We not only want to free CeCe but we want to take a stand against racist transphobic attacks happening all over the country.”

Thank you for bringing this case to our attention...it shows that even though there is "some" increased enlightenment in the world, it is still an incredibly hostile world for anyone that is considered "different" from mainstream society. Unfortunately TGs will be always be there to receive the brunt of hateful attention from people like Dean Schmitz (though he is now out of the equation), but people like him will always find someone to hate on.

I can't find anything though, that says she's not allowed to claim self-defense. That's something that will be determined at trial.

I was going to post a whole thread on "facts and statistics" on transgenders. The numbers say it's no picnic being a TS.
It turned into a big mess, because some studies contradict others, and each country is different, and each city is different, the stats in San Francisco are WAY different than Boise.
All the studies in the US say the Justice System looks at transgenders as born troublemakers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Awful story and in a way bothers me more than the Trayvon Martin murder.

Justice and the legal system aren't one in the same.
I wish someone like Rachel Maddow would give this story some coverage.

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If she has a dick still attached, I don't envision Rachel Maddow going anyplace near the story.

Seriously Rachel Maddow and not Sgt. Schultz?? Come on.

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

I was going to post a whole thread on "facts and statistics" on transgenders. The numbers say it's no picnic being a TS.
It turned into a big mess, because some studies contradict others, and each country is different, and each city is different, the stats in San Francisco are WAY different than Boise.
All the studies in the US say the Justice System looks at transgenders as born troublemakers.

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What do you expect if you don't easily fit into a box, then you are a troublemaker. For example, God forbid if a Republican might comment on this forum.

This is not good, but typical. Strip away the top layer and you'll see that it is the victim that wags the judicial dog. That is why the killing of minorities does not generate as much interest as the killing of a caucasian. This will not go well.

Bullshit.

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

What do you expect if you don't easily fit into a box, then you are a troublemaker. For example, God forbid if a Republican might comment on this forum.

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There are plenty around and you don't have to look too far.

gAnd, just in passing, given the GOP's current stance on women's and gay rights, can you or anyone else explain what exactly a card-carrying Republican might be doing on a forum like this?

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

There are plenty around and you don't have to look too far.

gAnd, just in passing, given the GOP's current stance on women's and gay rights, can you or anyone else explain what exactly a card-carrying Republican might be doing on a forum like this?

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Wasn't Ericka a card-carrying Republican?

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Originally Posted by bte

Wasn't Ericka a card-carrying Republican?

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Yep, and they turned on her in a big way. Hardly surprising though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

There are plenty around and you don't have to look too far.

gAnd, just in passing, given the GOP's current stance on women's and gay rights, can you or anyone else explain what exactly a card-carrying Republican might be doing on a forum like this?

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Boom! It's a fair question. I'd love to see the answer.

I'm gonna guess they like transsexual pornography for masturbatory purposes

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Originally Posted by Helvis2012

Boom! It's a fair question. I'd love to see the answer.

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As far as I know the position of the Obama and the Republican Party on Gay marriage is the same. I'm from the libertarian wing of the party, and don't really care as long as it is not judicially imposed.

As far as woman's rights goes, I think the party (and myself) believes in equal rights for woman. The party's last VP nominee was a woman for God's sake. What we don't approve of is abortion (I think it is murder plain and simple). Also we believe that if someone wants to be on the pill they need to pay for it themelves (or don't engage in sex). It is interesting that Gov. Palin and Gov. Haley are both called sluts and worse by the left, but it is okay to attack these women because they are Republican. I don't know that it is pro-woman to attack Mitt Romney's wife because she stayed home and took care of the kids (six I think). It is amazing that people sit around and make this stuff up and then write an opinion piece in the Puffington Host and then it becomes fact.

I don't know others rational for becoming Republicans, but from the time I was going up and earlier (McGovern) the Democrats have always been soft on national defense, and seem to want to take away more and more of my hard earned money (and give it to people who don't work 60+ hours per week like I do). I'm not crazy about the Rick Santorum wing of the party, but they scare me a lot less than the Occupy WS crowd.

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Originally Posted by brickcitybrother

This is not good, but typical. Strip away the top layer and you'll see that it is the victim that wags the judicial dog. That is why the killing of minorities does not generate as much interest as the killing of a caucasian. This will not go well.

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That's bullshit........


You're doing the same thing here as dozens of other did in the last case. In situations like this, the prosecutor never shows their cards until discovery, so everyone is free to lay out the scenario to coincide with whatever their opinions and agendas are. Yours is obvious. After reading pages of wild hyperbole on the Trayvon Martin case, I'm convinced there are some people who've convinced themselves they know exactly what happened, and no matter what the evidence at trial, they'll never accept any outcome but the one THEY have imagined based on thier own bias.

Sure...on the surface this looks sketchy and suspicious, but I've yet to hear the whole story, and neither have you. You and the other folks can work yourself up into a racial frenzy if you're so inclined, but innocent folks are getting hurt because of that kind of shit.... or maybe you haven't heard, or don't care. Few facts are going to come out on this until trial. I hope the chic makes bail while awaiting trial but that's not a determination on her guilt or innocence....neither is her skin color or her gender, nor the fact the victim might have been a scum bag, nor the kind words from her friends.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

There are plenty around and you don't have to look too far.

gAnd, just in passing, given the GOP's current stance on women's and gay rights, can you or anyone else explain what exactly a card-carrying Republican might be doing on a forum like this?

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I'll tell you what were not doing......kissing everyone's ass in desperate hope of being accepted by the crowd. Really dude.....you're the most pathetic desperate individual on here....didn't you get the hint the last time you got run off? You're obviously a slow learner . What's your point...that only people who believe what you believe should be allowed to participate ? Is that the little monolith world you live in? Your own little fantasy where everybody sees things like you? Maybe you were cut out to live in a commune in the 60's, you got the guitar...lmao...but you're a little late. Are you intimidated by those who see things differently than you do? You must be because you're obsessed ......and in the same breath, you'll tell us about your infinite liberal capacity for tolerance and diversity. ......unless of course it's diversity of opinion. What a complete hypocritical asshole.


It's cool to believe what you believe, but stop misrepresenting what others believe. If you must inject your politics into every post...try telling us what you think and why....not your interpretation and misrepresentation of what others think. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, but that doesn't stop you from injecting your foolishness every chance you get. Your posts read like the headlines in those liberal British tabloids. Go out and make some real friends, and give this internet suck up thing a rest. This is after all the internet dude....these people really don't give a shit about you...they're not going to come listen to you play your guitar, they're not going to visit you if you get sick, in fact...they didn't even know you were gone last time....so stop trying so hard, it's embarrassing, and more importantly....stop misrepresenting what others believe. Got it?

OMK, in one case you're defending the shooter as potentially being justified for what he did.
In this case, you're defending law enforcement who've kept this woman jailed for almost a year for what appears to be justifiable homicide(self-defense).

Why the inconsistency??

BTW this is about her gender, not skin color.

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As far as woman's rights goes, I think the party (and myself) believes in equal rights for woman.

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That’s why republicans in several states seriously proposed raping women who sought abortions with transvaginal ultrasound probes (jamming an dildo up their cunts against their will and forcing them to watch it on an ultrasound monitor).

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The party's last VP nominee was a woman for God's sake.

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Technically yes. Intellectually, however, she was a female orangutan, but some guys will vote for any milf-bimbo if they can build a masturbation fantasy around her.

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What's your point...

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You fit right in here...as about as well a redneck in bib-overalls with his zipper down and crunching popcorn at Vienna State Opera during a performance of The Rigoletto.

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Your own little fantasy...

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That would be the fantasy where people don't get murdered for wearing hoodies and where transgender women don't have to fear for their lives whenever they're alone on the street.

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...unless of course it's diversity of opinion.

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Really? Who was claiming just days ago that some cultures are inferior to others and defining culture as including customs, beliefs, opinions....mmmmmm who was it.....starts with an mmmm ...ends with a cigar....that’s right...OMK’s best buddy...mildcigar. What a pair of misfit losers you guys are! LOL

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Originally Posted by onmyknees

I'll tell you what were not doing......kissing everyone's ass in desperate hope of being accepted by the crowd. Really dude.....you're the most pathetic desperate individual on here....didn't you get the hint the last time you got run off? You're obviously a slow learner . What's your point...that only people who believe what you believe should be allowed to participate ? Is that the little monolith world you live in? Your own little fantasy where everybody sees things like you? Maybe you were cut out to live in a commune in the 60's, you got the guitar...lmao...but you're a little late. Are you intimidated by those who see things differently than you do? You must be because you're obsessed ......and in the same breath, you'll tell us about your infinite liberal capacity for tolerance and diversity. ......unless of course it's diversity of opinion. What a complete hypocritical asshole.


It's cool to believe what you believe, but stop misrepresenting what others believe. If you must inject your politics into every post...try telling us what you think and why....not your interpretation and misrepresentation of what others think. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, but that doesn't stop you from injecting your foolishness every chance you get. Your posts read like the headlines in those liberal British tabloids. Go out and make some real friends, and give this internet suck up thing a rest. This is after all the internet dude....these people really don't give a shit about you...they're not going to come listen to you play your guitar, they're not going to visit you if you get sick, in fact...they didn't even know you were gone last time....so stop trying so hard, it's embarrassing, and more importantly....stop misrepresenting what others believe. Got it?

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Don't bother; he's not even an American (at least not living here in the US which takes away his right to pontificate on how we live our lives here).

Don't forget that is it was British self-serving arrogance that set up the current middle eastern boundaries after WW1 that cause the whole region to be permanently fucked up.

And WRT trish - don't even bother reading the drivel coming from that person.

I cannot believe the ignorance of posters like Paladin (I won't even begin to address the poison that is OMK). So the invasion of Iraq, spearheaded by Bush and the Neocons (and shamefully aided and abetted by the Blair administration here) had nothing to do with the mess that is the modern Middle East. Nor did the CIA and US inspired interventions and interference in many other parts of the region for the past 50 years. Nor does the US support for Saudi Arabia.Nor the presence of massive US bases in Bahrain and Qatar. Nor unswerving US support for Israel. And while we are at it - Paladin - (to borrow a leaf from your view of who is qualified to comment on things) let's not have YOU pontificate on the Middle East since I suspect you've not been there (please correct me if I'm wrong) and are not from there either.

PS...

Paladin rote: "he's not even an American (at least not living here in the US which takes away his right to pontificate on how we live our lives here)."

The last time I saw someone seriously advance that line of argument was from supporters of the Apartheid regime in South Africa. Not comparing the US with S Africa, merely the mindset of this poster and his swaggering fellow travelers. Now who wants to shut down debate, eh OMK? You gonna blast Paladin for what you accuse the liberals off?

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

Placing her with the boys will be promlematic for her, and placing her with the girls will be problematic for the girls.

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I have thought about this. And am not sure which place would be best... the men or the woman. Woman can be bullies to transwoman too you know.
Men might be glad to see a lady among them ;)

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Originally Posted by trish

That would be the fantasy where people don't get murdered for wearing hoodies and where transgender women don't have to fear for their lives whenever they're alone on the street.

Really? Who was claiming just days ago that some cultures are inferior to others and defining culture as including customs, beliefs, opinions....mmmmmm who was it.....starts with an mmmm ...ends with a cigar....that’s right...OMK’s best buddy...mildcigar. What a pair of misfit losers you guys are! LOL

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"Trish X" Two quick points and I would like an honest answer if you dare. My bet is that you are not self-reflective enough to answer something other than the party line.

1) Where do you think you would be safer walking down the street, in the heart of nice Republican Orange County or in the deep blue heart of South Central LA? You know and I know you have a lot more to fear from a fellow Obama sympathizer than myself or another Republican (that is unless you are peeping in windows and casing the neighborhood for a burglary, also I'm assuming that you would leave your hoodie at home if you visit Orange County).

2) Second point is on the belief that some cultures are inferior to other (I think my point is self-obvious) as the below link demonstrates:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/egypts-fare...065447484.html.

That is some serious fucked up shit (I can't even believe that a culture would attempt to sanction this kind of conduct). All cultures are not created equal. Attempt to walk down the streets of Mecca as a TS and see what happens to you (compare to walking in Vatican City, or even Salt Lake City).

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

"


2) Second point is on the belief that some cultures are inferior to other (I think my point is self-obvious) as the below link demonstrates:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/egypts-fare...065447484.html.

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Final warning on this sort of shit.

Mid Cigar - that spurious Post has already been shown to be bullshit - a lie. Check a post from Stavros on the subject a couple of days ago. You racists just keep on keeping on, don't you.

Was writing this as Seanchai posted his intervening post.

Hey cigar, would you feel safe escorting Trish to your local Redneck Bar???

I'm just currious before I receive the death penalty, which rule was broken by this post???

I should know better by this point in my life, but the thin skinnedness of "tolerent" leftists always surprises me.

It is your forum do as you see fit.

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

I'm just currious before I receive the death penalty, which rule was broken by this post???

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Same as the other ones you've received warnings about.
Clear cut racist remarks and the promotion of same in your ongoing "inferiority of other cultures" posts as well as just being irritating.