Bad things happening in London

London has had a terrible few days.

I would personally like to thank all of our clients who have been so understanding as obviously there have been problems with outcalls and a few clients delayed in getting to us.

There have been rumours on the news about Victoria being hit tonight but the news channels have not confiermed this.

Please be careful if you are in the city tonight :)

As always if we see any problems in an area we will reserve the right to suspend outcalls in that area and apologise to anyone that this effects.

Chloe x

To everyone in London, stay safe and hopefully it will pass soon.

a tragic situation indeed - hope order and sanity can be restored soon without further loss of life and or property

I heard a rumour that Wimbledon and Kingston were about to get it. Police were it seems telling shops to close early based on "information." Stay safe everyone.

As a Brit I find the whole fucking thing a complete and utter disgrace and feel embarrased to be known as a Brit.

This mindless bunch of fucking wankers need some serious treatment. The sad thing is though our policeforce are helpless to do anything and these rioters know this full well.

The police's only weapon it appears is the video camera and the threat that they will follow up with prosecution. Sorry guys but I want to see something much much stronger than that.

My suggestion (apart from an armalite) would be water cannons with indelible dye that can not wash off for at least a month. Hose the bloody lot of them and anyone in a hoodie getting involved (most of them) strip them naked and hose them with bright yellow dye. Let them try and explain that to their families or the person behind the desk the next time they try and sign on!

Sorry guys, got it off my chest now.

My suggestion (apart from an armalite)

Let me get this right: you disapprove of violence on the streets of London but don't disapprove of violence if you are using it on the streets of London...?

And if you are suggesting mass murder as a solution to social problems, you might want to explain what you do after you have begun something that has never been shown to work.

The alternative is to face up to the economic and social problems that modern life has created in a mega-city like London and find a practical solution, instead of just sitting at home and getting upset at genuinely distressing and horrible scenes. I have read some incredible drivel in the press, most of which merely exposes a latent bank of predjudice and lust for violence as bad as anything seen on the streets: but there are alternatives. I posted this in Politics & Religion but post it again here as an antidote to the 'scorched earth' crypto-fascists who can't see past the tip of their fantasy armalite -from Camila Batmanghelidjh who actuallly works with feral youth and tries to turn their lives around. She is on the battlefield, not off it. At least read what he has to say. The alternative is a form of collective despair where we all end up in bunkers or an early grave, or both.

Camila Batmanghelidjh: Caring costs – but so do riots

These rioters feel they don't actually belong to the community. For years, they’ve felt cut adrift from society
Tuesday, 9 August 2011


Shops looted, cars and buildings burnt out, young adults in hoods on the rampage.
London has woken up to street violence, and the usual narratives have emerged – punish those responsible for the violence because they are "opportunist criminals" and "disgusting thieves". The slightly more intellectually curious might blame the trouble on poor police relations or lack of policing.
My own view is that the police in this country do an impressive job and unjustly carry the consequences of a much wider social dysfunction. Before you take a breath of sarcasm thinking "here she goes, excusing the criminals with some sob story", I want to begin by stating two things. First, violence and looting can never be justified. Second, for those of us working at street level, we're not surprised by these events.
Twitter and Facebook have kept the perverse momentum going, transmitting invitations such as: "Bare shops are gonna get smashed up. So come, get some (free stuff!!!!) F... the feds we will send them back with OUR riot! Dead the ends and colour war for now. So If you see a brother... SALUTE! If you see a fed... SHOOT!"
If this is a war, the enemy, on the face of it, are the "lawless", the defenders are the law-abiding. An absence of morality can easily be found in the rioters and looters. How, we ask, could they attack their own community with such disregard? But the young people would reply "easily", because they feel they don't actually belong to the community. Community, they would say, has nothing to offer them. Instead, for years they have experienced themselves cut adrift from civil society's legitimate structures. Society relies on collaborative behaviour; individuals are held accountable because belonging brings personal benefit. Fear or shame of being alienated keeps most of us pro-social.
Working at street level in London, over a number of years, many of us have been concerned about large groups of young adults creating their own parallel antisocial communities with different rules. The individual is responsible for their own survival because the established community is perceived to provide nothing. Acquisition of goods through violence is justified in neighbourhoods where the notion of dog eat dog pervades and the top dog survives the best. The drug economy facilitates a parallel subculture with the drug dealer producing more fiscally efficient solutions than the social care agencies who are too under-resourced to compete.
The insidious flourishing of anti-establishment attitudes is paradoxically helped by the establishment. It grows when a child is dragged by their mother to social services screaming for help and security guards remove both; or in the shiny academies which, quietly, rid themselves of the most disturbed kids. Walk into the mental hospitals and there is nothing for the patients to do except peel the wallpaper. Go to the youth centre and you will find the staff have locked themselves up in the office because disturbed young men are dominating the space with their violent dogs. Walk on the estate stairwells with your baby in a buggy manoeuvring past the condoms, the needles, into the lift where the best outcome is that you will survive the urine stench and the worst is that you will be raped. The border police arrive at the neighbour's door to grab an "over-stayer" and his kids are screaming. British children with no legal papers have mothers surviving through prostitution and still there's not enough food on the table.
It's not one occasional attack on dignity, it's a repeated humiliation, being continuously dispossessed in a society rich with possession. Young, intelligent citizens of the ghetto seek an explanation for why they are at the receiving end of bleak Britain, condemned to a darkness where their humanity is not even valued enough to be helped. Savagery is a possibility within us all. Some of us have been lucky enough not to have to call upon it for survival; others, exhausted from failure, can justify resorting to it.
Our leaders still speak about how protecting the community is vital. The trouble is, the deal has gone sour. The community has selected who is worthy of help and who is not. In this false moral economy where the poor are described as dysfunctional, the community fails. One dimension of this failure is being acted out in the riots; the lawlessness is, suddenly, there for all to see. Less visible is the perverse insidious violence delivered through legitimate societal structures. Check out the price of failing to care.
I got a call yesterday morning. The kids gave me a run-down of what had happened in Brixton. A street party had been invaded by a group of young men out to grab. A few years ago, the kids who called me would have joined in, because they had nothing to lose. One had been permanently excluded from six schools. When he first arrived at Kids Company he cared so little that he would smash his head into a pane of glass and bite his own flesh off with rage. He'd think nothing of hurting others. After intensive social care and support he walked away when the riots began because he held more value in his membership of a community that has embraced him than a community that demanded his dark side.
It costs money to care. But it also costs money to clear up riots, savagery and antisocial behaviour. I leave it to you to do the financial and moral sums.
Camila Batmanghelidjh is founder of the charities The Place To Be and Kids Company
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...s-2333991.html

Maybe I have misread the situation wrong then, perhaps I should go out tonight, find a hoodie and give him a big hug and offer to give him half my life savings because I feel sorry for him and I clearly don't pay enough in my taxes to go towards his needs.

I agree that there are deep social problems and the armalite was of course not a real solution but name and shame with indelible dye is.

I'm sorry Stavros but I have heard so much of this namby pamby politician crap over the years and the labour government ploughing so much money into social affairs, schools, health service etc. and nothing has changed other than we have massive debts, high unemployment and social unrest. Our borders are bursting at the seams and still more come in and stretch the social services even further.

I have paid taxes all my life in every which way I have had to whether it be personal income, corporation, national insurance, council tax, road tax, fuel tax VAT, you name it.

To hear that people can even sympathise with these mindless rioters and make out that its because of this and that I find deeply offensive. What about the furniture store that has been family run for 150 years, torched to the ground. Poor families terroised and stranded in flats whilst they burn down around them, yeah did they deserve that too.

I'm sorry but standing back and watching these thugs with mindless violence on the streets can not be tollerated. The police do a great job but are powerless to dare touch anyone because someones human rights may be breached.

Great Britain, my arse, we are a laughing stock!

Sounds like some guys from Baltimore are vacationing in the UK this summer.

Ha,, welcome to your future. Too bad you gave your guns away.

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Originally Posted by Yvonne183

Sounds like some guys from Baltimore are vacationing in the UK this summer.

Ha,, welcome to your future. Too bad you gave your guns away.

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Wow - Harlem Riot of 1964 ring a bell? :roll:

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Originally Posted by Dave32111

Wow - Harlem Riot of 1964 ring a bell? :roll:

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Harlem riot of 64,, that's going a ways back,,,lol Yea we here in the US had loads and loads of riots, no doubt about that. Just about every major city had a riot. It looks like it's the UKs turn for some fun, good luck and be safe.

PS-I'm also from Baltimore. I know what life is like in Baltimore. Just drive down Fulton/Monroe Ave in west Baltimore or Madison St in east Baltimore for evidence of urban decay.

Go down to the "safe"area, the harbor when there's a special event like the Easter day parade and see the wild youths rampage. Baltimore continues to have it's mini riots, it just doesn't get in the news.

Not just London, Birmingham got it bad.

Basically, Police have had most of their powers taken away and can't crack skulls. If a copper went to hit some looting filth, he'd get a years worth of enquiry then prosecuted for hitting some innocent little lamb who is misguided.

I say bring the US police over to crack down and teach our police a few lessons in policing.

My town is filled with rumours tonight of trouble and I'm heading down to defend my town. Its about time somebody made a fucking stance, so my cricket bat comes with me if anyone goes near a shop.

I will smash these cunts into the next town if I have to.. I'm a big bloke and I pack a punch (no Kim.. I'm not talking fisting).

next week I have to go to hackney so I hope it pass soon :)

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Originally Posted by SpoogeMonkey

Not just London, Birmingham got it bad.

Basically, Police have had most of their powers taken away and can't crack skulls. If a copper went to hit some looting filth, he'd get a years worth of enquiry then prosecuted for hitting some innocent little lamb who is misguided.

I say bring the US police over to crack down and teach our police a few lessons in policing.

My town is filled with rumours tonight of trouble and I'm heading down to defend my town. Its about time somebody made a fucking stance, so my cricket bat comes with me if anyone goes near a shop.

I will smash these cunts into the next town if I have to.. I'm a big bloke and I pack a punch (no Kim.. I'm not talking fisting).

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The only way to protect body harm and property loss is if the decent people make a stand and fight against the thugs. The police are almost always unable to defend property. The LA riots, the Williamsburg NY riots, the police stood back to let the thugs blow off steam, to get it out of their system. While the police stood back, peoples property was destroyed.

I lived in the Bronx during the blackout of 77. Some shop owners sat on a chair outside their store with shotguns. Those stores were untouched by the thugs. In the LA riots it wasn't until the Korean store owners took up arms did the police finally decide to move in.

For the most part these thugs are cowards, if you met one on the street alone they would look to the ground with fear. If the people defend themselves the thugs would go away, they are cowards.

Anyways,, to me the riots in the UK just looks like a big football match.

Maybe I have misread the situation wrong then, perhaps I should go out tonight, find a hoodie and give him a big hug and offer to give him half my life savings because I feel sorry for him and I clearly don't pay enough in my taxes to go towards his needs.

I understand your frustration, its the difference between looking for long term solutions, and dealing with the present crisis. Also, there is evidence that a lot of this looting is organised, so it is debatable how much of it is now the work of 'feral youth'; I have seen reports where looters were in their 30s and 40s.

The point is not about being sympathetic or feeling sorry for deprived youth, but recognising that if society doesn't do something to try and divert their frustration away from violence, then this kind of event could happen again which is no good for anyone. I don't have any sympathy with them either, but again and again, there has to be a focus on solutions, not an easy task in a country with such high unemployment.

I like Edwoods idea although I did see loads of peoples doors being broken down and arrested on the news.

Looks like Manchester has it bad tonight. Miami SWAT thats what we should have. Give the police a bit more freedom and stop making them feel like they are working with their hands behind their backs.

Stay safe everybody

Chloe x

these youth's could go to Afghanistan for peace keeping duties and take out their aggression out on the locals

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Originally Posted by russtafa

these youth's could go to Afghanistan for peace keeping duties and take out their aggression out on the locals

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there's no windows to break, or flat screen TV's to be had there Russ !

yes but maybe they could steal or rob or bash one of the locals

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Originally Posted by russtafa

yes but maybe they could steal or rob or bash one of the locals

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I can understand not caring one way or the other about Afghanistan, but why go overboard? I mean, why would anyone in their right mind go there to do anything? Do you wanna go? You should join Black Water. lol

no im not breaking the law and being a tough guy on the streets of England ,robbing,bashing,burning,destroying the towns and city's.if these people want to be tough they should go to Afghanistan where they know how to deal with tough guys

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Originally Posted by russtafa

no im not breaking the law and being a tough guy on the streets of England ,robbing,bashing,burning,destroying the towns and city's.if these people want to be tough they should go to Afghanistan where they know how to deal with tough guys

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Ah. Ok. I see the point you were making.

thanks Nicole i think its so wrong what these poor people in London have to go thru with these young thugs

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Originally Posted by Prospero

I heard a rumour that Wimbledon and Kingston were about to get it. Police were it seems telling shops to close early based on "information." Stay safe everyone.

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No way, rich people are protected by the police

if it's good enough for Egypt and Libya...

rich or poor looting, rape or bashing is wrong

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Originally Posted by russtafa

rich or poor looting, rape or bashing is wrong

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Filthy rich is even worse, and London is a save haven for those... those russian oligarchs, indian slavedrivers, thai criminals...

Tuesday, Aug 9, 2011 11:38 ET The right's non-reaction to the London riots

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...s/md_horiz.jpg AP


A property is on fire near Reeves Corner in Croydon, south London Tuesday, Aug. 9, 2011.

By Mark Adomanis

London has been ablaze for the past three nights and has experienced what is clearly its worst civil unrest in decades. The rioting has now spread to other cities in England and no one really knows how much longer it will last. I spoke to some friends in London and they described an otherworldly atmosphere of panic and disorder: rumors are now swirling that the Police have been instructed to use rubber bullets to disperse the crowds, and riot control units from the length and breadth of the entire country are converging on London to bring the situation back into some sort of control.

Using a phenomenon as complex, unwieldy, and unpredictable as a riot to score political points is dangerous. As Paul Campos of the blog Lawyers Guns & Money said, "Urban riots are usually complex events, in which people participate for many reasons, ranging from simple boredom and criminal opportunism on one end, to conscious political protest on the other."
Judging from all available press reports, it seems that the rioters have no clear political grievances whatsoever besides, perhaps, a generalized hatred of the better off and "the system." Most of the violence, theft, and property destruction have been committed by people that seem to be taking advantage of the atmosphere of chaos to pocket clothing, electronics, and food that they might otherwise be unaffordable. In other words, while there are undoubtedly some "root causes" the violence in London, which has occurred overwhelmingly within immigrant communities themselves, seems to be almost entirely about opportunistic criminality and inchoate rage.
Notably absent from the London riots, and from any press reporting about them, is a religious angle. Almost all accounts, from left-wing and right-wing press outlets alike, agree that the disturbances are overwhelmingly about class tensions, and are not about race or religion -- one can peruse images of the rioters and quite easily see that the youth are a mixed collection of (to use British parlance) Asians, Afro-Caribbeans, and whites.
To say that the conservative press has been reticent to comment about the London rioting would be a pretty serious understatement. Ground zero for movement conservatives, National Review Online’s The Corner didn’t have its first post up about the London riots until almost 8 PM on August 8th, and that was a simple cut-and-paste from the Daily Telegraph. As of the writing of this article, roughly 9am on Tuesday August 9th, The Corner had one additional post by the same author that was also largely a cutting-and-pasting of another article from the Daily Telegraph. Noted civilization warriors such as Victor Davis Hanson, Mark Steyn, Theodore Dalrymple, and Daniel Pipes, who have in the past shouted themselves horse about the lethal danger that multiculturalism poses to "The West," haven’t said anything at all.
National Review writers, however, did manage to find the time to write posts about: the debt ceiling crisis, the administration’s treatment of S&P, the Iowa primary, Rick Perry, Margaret Thatcher, union busting in Wisconsin, the Tea Party (or to be more particular, the media’s horribly unfair treatment of it), the Eurozone, and the issue of "liberal media bias."
The Weekly Standard’s blog was little different -- the first post mentioning the London riots appeared at 7PM on August 8th and was simply the pasting of a link to an article in the Murdoch-owned tabloid The Sun. Weekly Standard writers did have enough time to cover Tibet’s new leader, union busting in Wisconsin, several aspects of Barack Obama’s wretchedness, Afghanistan, and the "national popular vote" effort to reform the electoral college.
Over at Commentary, meanwhile, there hasn’t been anything about the riots in London but, over the past three days, there have been articles about Mitt Romney, the US-Israel alliance, Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, allegations of Newsweek’s sexism, and several articles on the comprehensive wretchedness of Barack Obama.
Now it is always difficult, of course, to complain about something that hasn’t actually been written -- if you made a point of criticizing someone only for things that they hadn’t done, you would (justifiably) be considered crazy.
However, I very clearly remember the far more energetic, effusive, and borderline hysterical manner in which the conservative press reacted to a series of riots in Paris back in the fall of 2005. I remember because, back then, I myself was something of a lunatic neoconservative and even joined in with a thoroughly wretched contribution to the "Muslims are scary and evil!" chorus.
Rather than shout myself hoarse describing the hypocrisy and double standards of people who bravely label themselves defenders or moral absolutism, and who never tire of accusing liberals of "relativism," I’m simply going to paste some choice quotes that conservatives used to describe the Paris riots which were, in scale and intensity, broadly similar to those which are now taking place in London. You can decide for yourselves whether their rhetoric and outrage about rioting Muslim youth in Paris matches their near-total silence about rioting multi-ethnic and multi-religious youth in London:

• The Eurabian civil war appears to have started some years ahead of my optimistic schedule…the rioters aren't doing a bad impression of the Muslim armies of 13 centuries ago: They're seizing their opportunities, testing their foe, probing his weak spots. -- Mark Steyn
• That French officials show no sign, on the eighth day of the Paris riots, of recognizing that this clash of values is the heart of the problem only guarantees that before they will be able to say that their difficulties with their Muslim population are behind them, many more cars will be torched, many more buildings burned, and many more lives destroyed. -- Robert Spencer
• Geography, size, and number of Muslims all make France a pivotal element in what amounts to a cultural conflict of continental dimensions. Added to the Madrid bombings of 3/11/04 and the London bombings of 7/11/05, the riots in France force the old continent to realize that there is a "Muslim problem" related to, but not just to, the Islamist terrorist problem -- Michael Radu
• The rioting by Muslim youth that began October 27 in France to calls of "Allahu Akbar" may be a turning point in European history…The French can respond in three ways. They can feel guilty and appease the rioters with prerogatives and the "massive investment plan" some are demanding. Or they can heave a sigh of relief when it ends and, as they did after earlier crises, return to business as usual. Or they can understand this as the opening salvo in a would-be revolution and take the difficult steps to undo the negligence and indulgence of past decades. -- Daniel Pipes
• These scenes are not from the West Bank but from 20 French cities, mostly close to Paris, that have been plunged into a European version of the intifada… It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire. -- Amir Taheri

How can rioting by disaffected youth in one Western European capital city be evidence of a titanic civilizational struggle and of a all-out "civil war" while rioting by disaffected youth in another Western European capital city is evidence of nothing in particular? Surely it doesn’t reflect an undue focus on Islam as a religion, right?

UPDATE

After I finished writing this post, I went back to check NRO, and two of their writers had finally responded to the London rioting by doing more than cutting and pasting a newspaper article.
I’ll let you decide whether these rather tepid efforts, which seem to reflect a generalized dislike of the underclass as opposed to fear that "THE MUSLIMS ARE TAKING OVER THE WORLD," are in keeping with previous conservative hysteria on the topic of youth rioters.

Oh... So this is just rioting for the hell of it? Burn baby burn!

This thread is actually the best information I've seen on this situation.

looks like the old bover boys have to clean up the streets again.love to see the good old teds and skins kicking these kids around the town

I pray you guys put a stop to this shit soon. I've always been fond of your country and people and hate seeing this. If the police can't stop this the good English citizens will.

I hope all of our British friends on this board stay safe. According to the news here in the U.S. things might be starting to calm down.

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Originally Posted by Yvonne183

Sounds like some guys from Baltimore are vacationing in the UK this summer.

Ha,, welcome to your future. Too bad you gave your guns away.

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Sorry Yvonne - adding guns to the riots would have helped somehow? SMH.

As always, the sociological background to the situation is infinitely more complex. Yes, there's an adrenaline-fuelled mob mentality which spreads and unites, but the reasons for being out on the streets in the first place are many, and vary from individual to individual.

It's a mix of the disaffected, disenfranchised, poor and the frankly not very bright on the one hand, and the having fun, let's torch the high street on the other.

Could be we're witnessing unrest in the UK for the first time in which the primary motivation for many is to see what you can get for free - "consumer riots".

And as others here have hinted, it's far more widespread than the mainstream media would suggest. Many towns in the north west have been affected, not just the major conurbations, for example. I learned yesterday that a town, Wellingborough, which is not far away from my home village, had its own night of rioting. No reports anywhere so far.

Don't worry, guys. Soon the good Englishmen will defend their lives and property.

With Sporks and butterknives.

Stay safe, Robert.

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Originally Posted by Dino Velvet

Stay safe, Robert.

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Don't worry Dino. He'll be safe. You can tell he's watching the violence on TV because it's always the punks with nothing to lose who sympathize with the idiot thugs. We saw this in Orange County during the LA riots.

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Originally Posted by PomonaCA

Don't worry, guys. Soon the good Englishmen will defend their lives and property.

With Sporks and butterknives.

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Wrong. In Birmingham and London last night retailers banded together with assorted (non-artillery) weaponry to defend their property. You'll love this, of course, for many the weapon of choice was a cricket bat! Interestingly, they weren't accusing the police of holding back and allowing wanton destruction, rather they sympathised and recognised that the police were simply too thinly spread to be fully effective.

And piss off with your implication that the Brits are hopeless wimps just because we don't carry huge cannons everywhere like you do to compensate for your tiny dicks. Any guy who is useful with his fists is twice the man of any prick who carries a gun. SMH.

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Originally Posted by Dino Velvet

Stay safe, Robert.

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Thanks mate. No problems for me. I live in a rural village with a population of 1500 and an average age of 60+.

Any riot here would be about an increase in the price of Pinot Noir and they'd just parade limply down the High Street tutting mildly....:)

:praying:Teddy boys and Skins back on the streets

I like the water canon with dye. But as we know it here in England a bit of rain will soon dampen the spirits of these wankers. Only prob rain is forecasted for Thursday.