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Mama if it was 6 guys all u can do is mind ya business. I'd have felt bad too but there are too many places to go on saturday nights where YOU WILL be accepted to chance and go to places where you won't. I hate to say it but she brought it on herself. Not to mention she shouldn't have been alone.
You did the right thing of not jumping in it.
Mama I think subconciously u stood there to make sure they didn't kill her. It'll be iight mama. It's not ya fault.
Good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalaya
That's deep. Do you girls feel a little uncomfortable if and when you go to straight clubs, like someone will get loud on you and maybe even attack you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalaya
This is scary stuff. I had a TG friend that was genetic-male-born-female that used to get his ass kicked by gay guys at the queer clubs.
There's no safe place. :cry:
This might sound a bit harsh and possibly a bit brutal but keep in mind I'm saying it as a reality check............... Shayala you're PASSABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean really passable, and you know this!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course you didn't step in, you have the body of a girl, you have the face of a developing young woman, you get some implants and it's a wrap, very few will know........ What the fuck were you gonna do even if it was 2 guys??? Nothing.......... I'm sorry the man in revlon and a dress and heels got his ass whooped but he KNEW what might happened when his ass went. The real blame goes to no one but the BOUNCERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Security let him in and basically allowed that beatdown to happen. You did what SEVERAL other passable dames here in NY would do which is MIND YOUR BUSINESS!!!!!!!
Shalaya, it's always hard in a situation like that. There are times I wish I were 6'4" and 240 lbs so I could weigh in if I see something nasty like that going down, but at 5'8" 180 lbs I'd probably get beaten too. The best thing would be if you had a cell to call the cops and then move on.
Man, you had a rough day yesterday, didn't you?
Send flowers.........................
none of this is your fault
those bouncers let that shit happen
if you'd stepped in you would have been online with some bruises and broken bones a few days from now hoping the swelling goes down, it is what it is
Yeah if you read mine two posts up I was in same situation. I work at a club and that is TOTALLY the responsibility of the bounces. Even bartenders, cocktails, waitresses should not be involved in stopping fights. So there would have been no good for you to jump in and confuse things even more and possibly get beat down because security wasn't doing their job. The reason I fought in this situation is becaue I pretty much said something and security wasn't doing their job,
If the bouncers saw a "clocky" girl walking in they should have had someone keep an eye on that person the entire time because obviously some shit is gonna break out if you're in that kind of club.
agreed..................
you slip one of the bouncers an extra $20 and say "keep an eye on this situation"
Living here in ATL(the Gay Mecca)I dont think many girls have that problem..hell u see Trannys at Walmart..lol
Basically we go anywhere we want.
There was an icident I had in DC last year, a guy recognized me in a str8 club...he whispered in my ear..."wassup Sexy Jade"... I gaged.
That goes back to the discretion thread. If I saw you somewhere public and recognized you I'd just admire from afar unless you came over and said "Hi" to me (You don't know me, yet. :) ).Quote:
Originally Posted by SexxxyJade
If I saw someone try to mess with you I'd pull up a chair and watch you kick their ass. :)
What did you gag for? the guy probably wanted a lil action.Quote:
Originally Posted by SexxxyJade
Intresting story?Quote:
Originally Posted by aTsLiKeN0oThEr
I scanned the responses (and maybe I missed this) but I don't know why calling the authorities wasn't mentioned as a response. A beatdown is a very fluid situation. One moment someone could be get smacked around ... the next a life is gone. Now, I am not saying that the police are the end all and be all when people are in trouble... but when you see that you cannot step into a situation - call on the ones who can and will.
Perhaps you didn't have a cell phone. Perhaps your girls didn't have one either. I know that corner public phones are becoming a relic of the past. But I would plead with you, in the future, when faced with that type of situation - the police are a very acceptable option.
It is too bad you had to see the grimey side of life. But its out there, all we can do is try to be prepared.
ok i just have to play devil's advocate here.
what if one of us guys told this same story? wouldn't we have been expected to do somethng?
you know we would get hung out to dry. i can hear/read it now.
"you say you love tg's and you stood there! your'e disgusting!"
"all you guys are pigs! you don't care about us!"
so on and so forth.
i guess beyond the fact that it was a transgender person. what is our personal/moral responsibility as people?
i imagine quite a few people stood and watched. its really quite disgusting.
hey don't get me wrong those are very very scary sitiuations no matter who is involved and i don't blame you for not stepping i probably wouldn't have either.
Why do you find it inconceivable or why do they happen? If the former probably because you are a lovely sweet person who just can't tune into that wavelength. Here in Europe, go to a grudge football match to see what this is about. I don't know what in the States.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelaDeren
Why do these things happen? That's much tougher and you will need to do a lot of reading. IMHO I think in a society where men are forced to question their masculine role they become insecure, and an insecure animal is dangerous.
Men conflate authority with masculinity. I also believe that the relentless association of competitive success with male fulfilment is dangerous. Not everyone can be top male, and those who are not are likely to be resentful and angry.
And though we do not live in an equal society, most men today will at some time in their lives have a boss who is a woman, or be ticketed by a cop who is a woman, or for some reason be hacked off with women, and probably, if he's not a high-performer, quite regularly. This brings about misogyny, and a further build up of resentment. I think that subconsciously a lot of men do actually hate women, or are at least frustrated by them. And remember, the rules say you can't hit girls.
Now throw into this a person who rejects maleness so far as too transform into a woman, the very object of frustration. This person is just walking away from all that competitive angst and peer pressure to succeed that is so much a part of modern urban male life. Sure they're exchanging those for other problems, but the bozos don't see that. Add alcohol and peer pressure and when the penny drops that this person is not protected by the "can't hit girls rule" you get the potential for serious violence, sometimes lethal violence. It will be particularly bad because of the internalised resentment aimed at g-women that the hapless t-girl is catching it for. This is ugly stuff.
I am an artist and a writer. There is no such thing as a 100% straight artist. You can't be in fully touch with your creative side and be a straight jock. It's just not possible. And the training of an artist, which in my case involved spending at least 2 days a week for 3 years in close proximity with naked men and women whom I was not related to in any way, made me examine myself very closely, as a man. I had to examine, understand, interpret and realise the beauty not just of the female body but the male one too. We all did. I'm not into men sexually, but I can certainly appreciate what a gay man or a woman finds beautiful and attractive about a man's body. So I'm not really straight.
I met my first TG people at art school. They were not students, they just felt safe with us because a) there was just no chance of any of us turning violent on them and b) even though there were more women than men at my college, there were enough No1 size guys like me around that the TG's knew that if they were out in a group with us they'd be safe. I should add that my college was also in a pretty gay-friendly city. I just mention these things so you know where I'm coming from.
How to change things? I don't know. Other than what I can do in my own work I can teach my sons to be more relaxed about their sexuality, to be less competitive and to try to accept other people for whatever they are. To understand that not all achievement is competitive. To see fulfilment as doing their best and being proud of it, not winning at all costs. But as I have made clear in the previous 2 pars I'm not one of the relentlessly competitive, fucked-up-straight bozoid jock types, and I know I'm in a minority. So a lot of men are going to remain a threat to TG/TS.
I'm pretty sure every other man that contributes here, for whatever reason, is sufficiently "off the straight and narrow" to understand what I mean. But we are a minority.
All you can do is keep safe, and BE CAREFUL. Take self defence courses-- carrying weapons is not enough. Even a gun-- what happens if your assailants are also armed? Or you miss and hit a bystander? The first thing you will be taught in self-defence classes is not how to fight off an attacker, though that will come later, but how to identify a potentially dangerous situation and avoid it before the point comes when violence is inevitable. That's the most important bit. Avoiding the confrontation. It's not a cop-out. . was quite right earlier. And by the way, never, ever, drink unless you are in a known totally safe situation. Not only will alcohol make your own behaviour more conspicuous, but you will miss the early signs of danger. Don't do it.
I think people who beat up weaker people for whatever reason are despicable bullies, and I would like to see them locked up for as long as it takes for them to learn a new way of looking at life. But that won't help Gwen Araujo or many others, or the poor girl who got her head kicked in last night. Or the one it's going to happen to tonight. So be careful, please.
What do you do when there's some really cute guy at the club who you want to go home with?
I wasn’t there to see what happened, and I know I’m going to catch shit for saying this, but I am of the opinion that you should have attempted to do something. Standing by and watching someone so outnumbered take a beating makes you an enabler to the sort of cowardice displayed that night, both by the 6 attackers and by the onlookers. Had you stepped forward, others might have joined you. Even if they didn’t, which is probable, your involvement might have taken away from the degree of suffering endured by the targeted woman.
-Quinn
Response time kills the authority idea...A good beatdown happens in less then a minute, two at tops.
Nothing you could have done Shay, except get yourself trashed. You did the right thing in not interfering.
Carrying a weapon without knowing exactly how, and a will, to use it is the DUMBEST thing anyone can ever do..
One, you dont know any of the laws and how the interact about carrying or self-defence.
Two, its incredibly ineffectual.
Three, even though ive studied knife fighting for 20 years I STILL would NEVER want to fight someone with knives.....If they pull a knife or worse, escalate the confrontation, your BOTH getting fucked up....Trust me this isnt the situation you want to be in.
Four, even brandishing a knife can land you jail time...You need a licence to conceal any kind of weapon and some states you cant conceal at all. Even though I have both a concealed carry permit, and an automatic weapons licence, I still have never brandished a weapon in public, unless I used it immediatly thereafter. Act 227 saved my ass twice, and I was still investigated.
Avoidance and placation will always be the best weapons you could ever use....If you dont think thats enough, invest in some real training and do yourself a favor by being able to keep yourself alive if the shit really does hit the fan:)
Hell, I wouldnt even take on 6 dudes that have been drinking. Someone gets killed in that scenario and its all a bad ending.
Im sorry Arianna but i cant agree with you about the one part of your comment; in a perfect world we could all go around dressed however we want to wherever we want and act however we want when we get there......But in the really real world, putting yourself in jeopardy by going to a straight club where drunk stupid men are going to be is a very bad, bad idea if your 6'5" in heels and a wig and cant pass even in dim lighting..
People sometimes bring stuff down on there heads that could have been avoided with a little forethought. Hard lesson to learn, but I doubt that guy will go dressed again without thinking it through a bit. When you wish to lead a certain lifestyle, it does indeed require you to taylor your life a bit. Its not fair no, but it is what it is.
"I dont carry my blade to fight off people I actually use it to protect myslef from other girls and crazy people"
This is a contradiction.
If you slice someone with that toy, youd better be prepared to kill them, cause thats certainly whats going to be going through there mind if there enraged or really crazy.
If was in a scuffle and someone pulled a razor knife on me and sliced me with it, well guess what ladies and gentleman, weve just escalated the encounter to deadly force....and it gets real ugly after that.
Any girl or guy with 2 weeks of basic H2H is gonna take that little razor away from you, or never give you a chance to use it in the first place....your asking for nothing but trouble carrying it.
Pepper spray would serve you alot better if your unskilled and little.
A couple girls in here would scream.....................Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalaya
for a video camera.
I agree. I also think there are lots of girls who think they are "unclockable", but..Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianna
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel
I find it interesting that everyone has been blamed EXCEPT the guys doing the beating. The real blame goes to no one but the ATTACKERS!!!!!!!!
Yes, the bouncers might have watched the situation more carefully. Yes, the girl that was beaten might have used better judgement in going there. But when all is said and done, it is the attackers alone that deserve the blame, not to mention a special place to burn in hell.
Shalaya, I don't blame you for not jumping in. I don't think any girl could do much against 6 guys except get your own ass kicked and maybe even killed. Sometimes when something like that happens, you are so shocked to witness it, that you are stunned into immobility.
With hindsight being 20/20, I would think the best you could have done was to call 911, run back around the corner and tell the bouncers, yell for help in the club or do all three things. Even then, there is no telling what might have happened. Maybe no one would have done anything anyway.
But please, everyone else... don't blame the victim. I don't care if she looked like a football player in a wig, no one deserves to be beaten for how they dress. Don't blame Shalaya. It's hard to know what any of us would do in that horrible situation. Don't lay all the blame on the bouncers, they didn't do the beating.
Lay blame only on the people that it belongs.... the attackers.
I was wondering how many pages of posts would go by before someone blamed anyone BUT the victim. My count is five. HBO made a movie about a similar subject. Are you all saying that young man deserved to be attacked for going into a "straight" bar? Unwritten rules are not fair. Sure, I know most of the clubs in my town that are "gay/tg friendly", but only by word of mouth, and I wouldn't bet on it for sure. Yes, if she/he was trying to deceive someone, it was a dangerous game to play, but there is no excuse other than a Karate tournament/boxing match or millitary assignment that justifies attacking another person. Even the police have strict rules now. I also agree that doing anything other than getting professional bouncers or the police would have been the wrong move.
Now for the "why".
Why are men (I admit I certainly am one) so afraid of homosexuals or bi-sexuals?
Here's my track record:
1-Car stereo stolen in high-school. Culprit: Straight redneck.
2-Beaten up in my front yard when I was 12 by much older kid. Culprit: Straight redneck.
3-Pushed around high-school hallway for trying to stick up for pudgy friend with a big mouth that got himself in trouble. Culprit: Straight redneck.
See a pattern? The gay friends I've had in my life have been the least likely to make fun of me in public, damage my property, STEAL GIRLFRIENDS FROM ME, etc. What are we afraid of? Why would anyone have to go to physical violence even when not threatened?
This means no disrespect-
But if you are at a place were you need to carry a box cutter for defense- or patrons are attacking others- it does not seem like a very safe, or friendly environment.
Furthermore, dangerous- if you had a box cutter on you- god knows what else someone else could be carrying.
Regardless, it seems like a hate crime and hopefully will be prosecuted as such.
How disgusting and ignorant to say that someone deserves a beating because he or she isnt as possible as the next tranny.
PURE IGNORANCE................
I dont care if she wasnt passable or not she didnt deserve to be beat up because of poor judgement. This is why society is fucked up when we allow a bunch of close minded fools dictate where someone should go whether they are passable or not.
Poor judgement doesnt give ANYONE the escuse to be brutally attacked.
You did the right thing. I would have called 911 on my cell. I might have interfered as well, but I am 6'2", 220. Getting yourself hurt would not have helped the situation.
not sure why a guy in drag would be hanging out in a straight club, but who cares? Is being stupid a reason for getting beat up?
the guys who threw this person a beating are cowardly cocksuckers that should do some hard time. I'm sure they won't be such tough guys in jail.
Ahh okay Arianna, i might have misunderstood what you were saying. Np dear:)
Being plain old stupid unfortunetly is a reason to get yourself screwed in so many situations im not even going to list them.....Would I go walk down 51st and Cayuga in philadelphia after dark by myself??? Umm...No, just no. Ive carried some guns that were total overkill for self-defence(smgs), and I still wouldnt go putting myself in a situation where I KNOW theres going to be trouble, or even a good chance at it..Trouble avoidance is key to leading a healthy life lol...
No ones saying this guy deserved to get gang-banged on, unless Ive failed to read a post by Donko or somesuch, but most everyone agrees that you shouldnt put yourself in that kind of situation to begin with....Its not fair, but if you havent figured out the life isnt fair yet....oh boy....
I competely agree with this and said so. These violent men should face hard jail time. But the reality, unjust and unfair though it may be, is that they probably won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBeauty TS
Yes, let's lock 'em up-- but in the meantime be careful. Do NOT become a statistic. There are enough of those already.
Let this be a warning to all tgirls: "Don't go to club with Shalaya!!"
passable or not , chances are someone at the club knows.
especially if you go with a bunch of gg's or a gg you don't really know to well.
I remember one time I went to a straight bar
and there was a tgirl in the bar
and one of her gg friends told all her acquaintances at the bar that she was a he and it went thru the whole place in minutes.
she was some what passable in the face, but you could tell from her body shape and people where whispering the whole night.
I have also seen young passable t-girls grinding on unsuspecting young men while there t-girls friends where watching and giggling.
Me and my friend knew because we went to school with this person.
I think all of you are playing with fire when you go to these so called straight clubs.
Call the cops! Give a statement. Maybe whip out your camera phone. Get the fucker's arrested. Call for help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalaya
I'm Not Trying To Be An Asshole, But You Should Have Done Something. I Don't Believe That It's Really An Issue As To Which Club This Person Went In To. Now It's Ok For TGirls And Other People With Alternative Lifestyles Who Go In This Bar To Get The Shit Kicked Out Of Them?
If You Need To Carry Something For Protection-Get A Can Of Some Pepper Spray.
a can of pepper spray against 6 guys?....this would have read 2 trannys beat up at the straight club......Quote:
Originally Posted by lmw222001
don't throw guilt at this girl dude --she stated she feels like shit anyways ----coulda woulda shoulda ----coulda woulda shoulda sucks ----let's just hope the victim is okay and maybe the girl who is feeling bad--can be an eyewitness --or do a character sketch or --I dunno ---------------------------violence sucks ---in all shapes and forms ---hate sucks ---in all shapes and forms ---NO ONE deserves anything like this -----makes me sad