:shock: :evil: :( :!:
This has to end. I'm not looking forward to heating bills this winter.
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:shock: :evil: :( :!:
This has to end. I'm not looking forward to heating bills this winter.
think about us brits... its around $8 (quick calculation) for petrol :(
Put the prices of gas up and use the tax to educate drivers on how to drive. Everywhere else in the world pays more for gas than the US whose citizens whinge everytime the price rises a little - which allows their politicians to go to war, purely to gain control of gas (and therefore their citizens).
If every 17 yr old didn´t seem to be driving a rice burner and used public transport, we´d be in a lot better shape.
seanchai
At least you guys have cars that get some sort of gas mileage. The cars here get lousy gas mileage and people are addicted to driving gas guzzling SUVs. Things probably won't change until gas is over $5 a gallon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chica
Shit! Gas was cheaper when Sadam Hussain was in power :!:
But you don't understand. The big Oil companies had the biggest profits in their histories last year.
And 2005's profits will be even bigger.
btw you do realize that something like 50% of those prices is federal state and local taxes, don't you?
no politician is going to war, nor are their kids...........................lolQuote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
the govt. has NO CONTROL over the oil industry, think about this for a second, they have the right to ask you to open your bag at a train station to check for bombs, to check your car when entering a garage to check for bombs, to facilitate you in a holding environment for weeks maybe even months depending on what country you previously lived in, but they can't control rising price of oil?!?
I know this country was created on the idea of freedom & opportunity but this is just going too far. The problem isn't the Saudi's primarily it's the public relations we have with many other countries that is killing us at the gas pump. Venezuela has been threatening to stop oil shipments to the U.S. and instead of fixing that public relation problem we let "Curious George" the monkey's father fly in & out of the Middle East strengthening his contacts so that his family will be financially secure for decades to come.
Also, yes it's true that European countries pay well over double what we pay for gas at the pump, but they woke up years ago and every time I go over there I'm usually running around in a diesel vehicle. The U.S. is the only insane place in the world that I know of that sells diesel fuel for the same price as premium gas. And in Germany BMW has just initiated powering a few of their vehicles off of Hydrogen. Not test cars for the next 20 years like the American companies do before they put it on a showroom, but actual you pay, you drive away with cars that can be refilled locally at a Hydrogen filling station.
Sad part is we can complain til the sun comes up. Once the price goes up like this it will never come down. Makes you really wanna smack some of those geniuses that voted the monkey back into office so his administration could focus on "gay marriages" rather than the rising costs of a necessity.
There's nothing wrong IMHO with going to war for oil, it's a resource we need in order to live. However, the war in Iraq was quite obviously not a war for oil - this is obvious every time we go to the pump.
Europeans who pay more money for fuel make me chuckle sometimes. They often act as if they drive fuel efficient cars for altruistic and not purely economic reasons. The cost of their fuel is not additional cost of the product itself, it's the taxes added to it by the government. I'm not knocking this practice as I think we should consider it ourselves in order to discourage the level of consumption, but don't be deluded into thinking that Europeans drive smaller cars because they love the environment so much.
it would be nice if individuals would excercise a little personal responsiblity.
we certainly don't have a good track record with accountability though. look how fat we are! we're gluttons for food and gas. pretty bad food at that!
tslvrnyc, you are very naive. You are thinking like a patriotic person or a strategic thinker. Yes if say Bill Clinton or even Richard Nixon, went to war with a country like Iraq over oil, it would be to make sure the US had access to that country's oil.Quote:
Originally Posted by tslvrnyc
Chimp George did go to war over oil -- but to turn the Iraq oil fields and industry over to his cronies, including VP Cheney's company, Halliburton. Cheney's company is the number 1 contractor earning billions in Iraq.
The goal of the war was not to give America Iraq's oil, it was to give the oil to the chimp's friends and cronies.
Chimp george is thrilled that gas is approaching $3 gallon and wants it to go higher, much higher, and that the oil companies are making record profits. Even though they don't even know what to do with all the money they are flooded with, chimp george just enacted a so called "energy bill" that give them yet more cash, free, just literally checks from the govt, like anyone's grandma on social security, except billions.
Read. Learn. Bush is on record years ago saying the price of gas needed to be much higher. He got exactly what he was after -- and you're paying for it at the pump.
i was readin on the AP site where oil in iraq is around 5 cents a gallon. 5 fuckin cents! and in all the neighboring countries, its a lil higher but still less than a dollar.
well even closer to home in Venezuela it's 7 cents.
Like hillbilly said, it's all about personal responsibility. Unfortunately, politics today, including the issue of oil and gas pricing, is entirely about not being responsible for anything. That doesn't really change – no matter which party is in power.
Speaking as an investor analyst who specializes in Northeast Asian economic and security issues, I can tell you that the price of oil (and by extension the price of gas) will be much much higher five years from now than it is today. China’s demand for the stuff is the primary reason for the increase in prices, and their demand will triple within a very short timeframe. And that doesn't even take into account the effect that the continuing expansion of India's economy will eventually place upon oil prices. You haven’t seen anything yet.
-Quinn
I didn't mention anything about Halliburton - but it's clear that no one 'stole' Iraq's oil, and that the majority of Halliburton's contracts for the reconstruction of Iraq have nothing to do with oil. Yes, it's obvious that Cheney was looking to help his buddies get rich. However, my post was attempting to refute the "no blood for oil" position, that is that a war for oil is somehow wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdelweissFan
Let's face it, all wars have always been about money or a valuable resource. Oil is a resource which we are completely dependent upon. If tomorrow there were no oil, most of the population of the world would die.
The Iraq war was stupid for a number of reasons, but to call it a "war for oil" is a statement that is not grounded in fact.
There was a good article in the NY Times magazine last weekend about Peak Oil. If you haven't heard of that, it's best to get informed.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...over.large.jpg
THE BREAKING POINT
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/magazine/21OIL.html
A good film to see is THE END OF SUBURBIA, Oil Collapse And The End of The American Dream.
http://www.endofsuburbia.com/
Bush Sr. said "The American way of life is not negotiable". But it seems to me that as energy costs increase dramatically, surburban sprawl will turn out to have been a poor choice as a way of life. And if it's not negotiable, who is going to pay the price?
Think about it $3/gallon for gas is close to water = $4/gallon (Evian). Think about Starbuck's coffee by the gallon $30/gallon? I never understand why oil being a limited resources was usually cheaper then most unlimited resources that can be turned into liquids.
My theory on oil prices: Operation Iraqi Libeation speaks for itself. Bush said in a speech to our nation that Iraq should not attempt to burn their oil fields, since it would hurt their nation's interests. Halliburton, Cheney's old company, is in control of rebuilding Iraq's oil fields. Iraq has not produced the same oil output since the war started. Bush has friends in the business and has many Saudi friends. Bush owned Arbusto/Harken Energy, Cheney was CEO of Halliburton, Condoleezza Rice sat on Chevron's board of directors, and Gale Norton (Interior Secretary) was national chairwoman of the Coalition of Republican Environmental Advocates, a group funded by BP Amoco. Bush has many oil friends in the business that can cut their supplies and drive up oil prices. Don't forget that Kenneth Lay was invited to talk about Bush's Energy Strategy when he first took office. Their administration has held their minutes and attendees of that meeting confidential (national security reasons), while 9/11 had public hearings. Raising oil prices helped pass his energy bill that will supply oil company money for exploring for oil, while they are at record profits and avoid U.S. taxes because of their offshore status. Raising oil prices may help drive his desire to start drilling in Alaska. Thinking about it: why do you think oil prices have skyrocketed lately? Is it coincidence that he wanted to pass his energy bill, which he said will help relieve oil prices - though experts disagreed? Is it coincidence that oil prices have continued to raise while we still have control of Iraq's oil fields and anti-war demostrations have risen and public opinion about the Iraq War have declined? Is it coincidence that Iraq is near a Constitution that will declare their freedom? Do you think Exxon can pass some of their $8 billion dollars in 3 months to help its consumers?
Profits last year:
Exxon = $25 billion
BP Amoco = $17 billion
Chevron = $13 billion
Conoco Phillips = $8 billion
I would estimate profits of Royal Dutch/Shell at around $15 billion.
Do you really think that they are searching for oil?
Where is all the money from oil companies going for political interests? 86% Republicans!
During the Bush-Kerry elections, Bush received $2,605,575, while Kerry received only $300,110.
Money in Politics Backgrounder on the Energy Industry
That's just my 2 cents on the topic. :wink:
I was thinking the same as Quinn...with the high demand in asia right now and India...we havent seen anything yet...Also China has been buying up all commodities around the world...until enough soldiers and civilians complained about lack of armor...we were sending all the metal we could send to them...now there is a stoppage for armor but that is the only reason why...trust me China is going to be the biggest superpower in the world soon....thanks to Clinton....bush's and other leaders around the world....they do not know what kind of fiend they are breeding but beware....
My man Buzz is just about on point. If u all r not familiar with the phenomenon thats come 2 b known as "Peak Oil" then its high time u get informed. This "crisis" is gonna change life as we've come 2 know it well n2 the 4seeable future. In short we have gone through about half of the worlds estimated oil and natural gas reserves and hence have reached the "peak" of global production. The age of "cheap oil" is just about over. We've reached the point where we will never be able to extract enough oil 2 meet ever increasing world demand and the impact of this will wreack havoc on the American economy and way of life. If u r really serious about understanding whats driving these high gas prices the following sites r an excellent place to start.
www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
and
www.fromthewilderness.com
lol...just purchased me a nice moutain bike...time 2 get used 2 riding again... 8) 8)
:claps :claps :clapsQuote:
Originally Posted by Quinn
This is an excellent post. 60 minutes (the news magazine on CBS) had a very informative report on China's increasing demand for black gold.
I certainly hope all this doesn't make people masterbate less. That would be a real travesty for the adult industry. Ideally this would result in people staying home more and touching themselves to Internet porn.
Personally, I think the hybrids are extremely ugly cars. If they made them look normal, maybe more people would buy them. Bummer that I won't have any grand children to gloat to about driving a car with 400h/p back in the day.
Good thing most of the third world countries can only afford mopeds. If you've never been to Taiwan or Thailand, you've never seen a family of five on a scooter.
V
Well... it's true... we dont drive smaller cars for enviromental love....Quote:
Originally Posted by tslvrnyc
But at least government (who is, by the way, becoming too much like the US) makes us leave the car at home 2 days a week during the autumn and during the spring to prevent too much pollution during days who are not good for normal dispersion of pollution..
...
Those of you who mentioned peak oil and shortages are correct about the long term -- yes rising demand in Asia and reduced production will drive the price up.
But even the guy who proposed peak oil says were are not there yet. Right now the price, therefore, is driven up by speculation about what may happen in the future, not a shortage now.
And who do you think is driving the speculation and withholding oil stocks to keep the price up? Who benefits?
As for Halliburton, Cheney's company, tslvrny you are right, it is not, strictly speaking, an oil company. It does not drill or refine. It is an oil service company and military service company. It builds oil facilities and military facilities.
But it is still benefiting more than anyone in Iraq. US bombs the Iraqi military bases at the start of the war -- Halliburton gets a contract to rebuild as a US base. Terrorists blow up an oil pipeline -- Halliburton gets a contract to rebuilt. The more destruction and construction, the better.
Never in American history has anything like this happened -- the VP's company has gotten $9 billion in contracts steered there by the VP himself (you don't think the boy king makes decisions do you? He's too busy riding his bicycle).
Dont worry. U will c the same reality here soon in the good ole USA and the problem is we r n no way prepared 2 deal with. This country has the fattest, most out-of-shape, most spoiled population on the planet. And as reliable sources of energy become more and more scarce ownership of a moped will b seen by some as a luxury.Quote:
Good thing most of the third world countries can only afford mopeds. If you've never been to Taiwan or Thailand, you've never seen a family of five on a scooter.
There is no doubt that the oil companies r maximizing profits right now but in the process they r also creating a situation of "demand destruction." And as a nation what would be better, to lower gas prices and increase consumption and thereby expedite the arrival of "peak" or keep them high and gradually wean the population off the oil nipple and prepare for life in a post "cheap oil" world. Whether we r @ peak now, as some believe, or just a few years away the hard reality is the same. A depressed economy, high unemployment, increased food, housing, clothing and transportation costs, ever escalating resource "wars"(and the highly possible re-imposition of a military draft) etc. The best course of action right now imo is PREPARATION. To borrow from someone well versed on the subject:Quote:
But even the guy who proposed peak oil says were are not there yet. Right now the price, therefore, is driven up by speculation about what may happen in the future, not a shortage now.
1. Get out of debt
2. Get in physical shape
3. Buy a sturdy mountain bike w/ a couple of spare tires.
4. If u have the resources consider relocation to areas of the country that r more "sustainable" and less oil dependent.
You can worry yourself sick about this stuff. I predict this will go down when I'm fairly old if it even happens in my lifetime. If I pay $10 a gallon for gas, so be it. Doom and gloom will only take people so far in life. I do believe that alternative energy sources are already viable and available. If I could have my cake and eat it too, I would be getting rich off of oil while still having a good fallback plan which is exactly what GW and friends may be doing. Can't fault the guy for following the American way.
I mean come on, we also have global warming and the melting of the icecaps to worry about. Nobody is saying it, but the earth can't sustain an unlimited amount of people. Those families having 10 kids or whatever are hopefully going to be a thing of the past. I'd like to see people have to get a license to breed.
I'm just glad I stopped trying to act like a kid and bought a fuel efficient vehicle instead of a sports car. About $40 a month now to go 40 miles to work every day.
Where fuel prices really hurt is in the lower middle class. Many of those folks bought into (initially) low interest loans that adjust at a variable rate a percent or two every year or two before capping; they have a new house, have a child, then the double whammy of fuel costs and interest rates increasing drastically. My subdivision has more than a few houses vacated by defaults; folks that got caught without a plan.
I do what I can. During the winter I conserve as much heat as possible; cuddling feels better than gas heat anyways. I have a fuel efficient car.
Highest in my area has been $2.67; somewhat lucky.
But, agreed. There are dozens of other things just as worrisome in this world so it doesn't make sense to let it control you. Understand it's there and be smart about it.
Whether you’re talking about a Parliamentary Democracy (England, etc.) or a Presidential Democracy (U.S. and France), you are ultimately talking about a system that is adept at supplying short-term solutions to short-term problems. Democracy as a system is entirely unsuited to tackling long-term issues. This is generally because tackling any long-term problem (global warming, shortage of fossil fuels, etc.) requires short-term sacrifices, which, in turn, usually results in elected officials being ushered out of office. The end result is a system that rewards anything perpetuating the status quo and punishes anything that challenges it. Why do you think the oil lobby has been so successful in limiting government funded research into energy alternatives?
So, what does all of this add up to? If you know that the cost of oil is going to climb precipitously over the next few years, then there are ways to aggressively capitalize on this trend. If you are worried about America’s comically inept immigration policies, then there are ways to capitalize on this, too. Global warming and the population bomb offer similar opportunities. I’m not saying you shouldn’t care about any of this, but if those elected to represent you won’t do anything about these issues – other than pay occasional lip service to them – then you should at least find a way to benefit from it all. Let me supply you with an example of how this might work:
1. Globally, oil production is at or near maximum output and it won’t be increasing anytime soon.
2. Massive increases in the supply of oil are required to fuel the expansion of China’s economy. Since that increased supply is not available, one can expect a massive increase in the price of oil over both the short and long-term.
3. The resulting increase in oil prices will cause pronounced inflationary pressure in the U.S. and many other economies.
4. Since a high rate of inflation is the single greatest threat to the future of any advanced industrialized economy, our perpetually inept Fed will be forced to continually raise interest rates in an attempt to contain the aforementioned inflationary pressure.
5. Both the American real estate and stock markets can be expected to stagnate as a result.
6. Smart investors will seek safe havens for their money. In my case this will mean investing in a number of overseas markets, including the German real estate market. Why? For decades the German real estate market was among the most expensive in Europe. However, during the latest housing boom in Western Europe and the U.S., the German real estate market remained stagnate as Germany’s perpetually outmoded corporations undertook restructuring – a process that hurt their economy in much the same way restructuring by U.S. companies caused a recession in the early nineties. Rapid German economic growth over the next decade will fuel an unprecedented housing boom in Germany while the rest of Europe sees paltry gains or outright decreases in housing valuations.
7. Use your incredible profits to buy more porn :D
-Quinn
Quinn, that was one of the most cogent, concise, and insightful summaries of the present economic situation that I've read. It's also well worth noting that Europe leads the US in wind power production by seven times (35,000 megawatts to the US's 7,000); Denmark is producing 20% of its power by wind and Germany is building the large wind turbine in the world, standing 600 feet tall (4x the height of the Statue of Liberty) with blades 200 feet long, which will generate 5 megawatts. Alternative technology is here, though it needs to be developed and it needs deep investment, but as you say regarding short-term solutions to short-term problems, we'll keep dodging the issue. So much for Representative Democracy.
Now you have done it, Ecstatic. How in the hell can I not go see the worlds largest wind turbine??? Seriously, when it is completed, I 'll have to see the thing in person. They'll probably make as much money from tourism as they do from power generation. Interesting stats about Denmark.
-Quinn
Wow. The majority of people can't afford $10/gallon for gas. Which means they can't get to work, and then the whole party for the upper class begins to fall apart because they don't have lackeys showing up to do their bidding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki Richter
GW and palls are riding this thing out, scorched earth. They have their back-up plans in place, but why would anyone other than someone within their inner circle think that it's a good thing?
American Dream? It's the same old narrow minded path petty jerks have made all through history.
License to breed. . .I don't really have anything else to say about this post.
Wow.
Thats a prediction that i wouldnt bet on. Assuming u live another thirty years, even the most optimistic estimates state that by that point we will b well along the downslope of the global oil production bell curve. And if/when gas reaches $10 a gallon u had better have a new profession 4 there wont b many with the time, inclination, or resources 2 afford such trivial yet fun pursuits as internet porn/"adult" entertainment. I dont think many fully understand the tie of energy and economy. I do agree that worrying about these issues is futile and does nothing to ameliorate the situation. One cannot stop winter from coming all one can do is prepare. The same can b said 4 the winter of "cheap oil". It's upon us now and only the wise, prudent and the prepared will b able 2 navigate through it with the least amount of pain and suffering. Now is not the time 2 acquire debt and b spendthrift in the pursuit of frivolous thrills but rather of downsizing one's lifestyle, trimming one's budget, getting physically and financially fit and acquiring those rudimentary skills that sustain life in hard times. Plan 4 the worst and hope 4 the best.Quote:
You can worry yourself sick about this stuff. I predict this will go down when I'm fairly old if it even happens in my lifetime. If I pay $10 a gallon for gas, so be it.
What the hell does physically fit have to do with anything? You really think it's going to get so bad that people ride bikes all over?
One could argue if the enconomy is going to blow up now is the time to have fun and enjoy life.
I am surprised that not more people are stockpiling gas if they really believe this stuff. If I thought gas was going to go up to $10/gallon in the next 5 years, I would be foolish not to buy a few 10,000 gallon containers and fill them with $2.50 gas. Nobody is doing this except for the same whacky doomsayers that thought Y2k was going to shut down the world. Remember the stockpiling bottled water in the garages?
My aunt was like that, going all nuts when it was going to happen. She even stockpiled the liquer cabinet. I asked her why, and she said, "So we can trade booze for food."Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki Richter
I told her, " you've been watching too many mel gibson rad warrior movies lately " :lol:
I still remember back as a kid in 1990 when $1.10 for gas for considered alot. :?
I remember the original OPEC crisis of the early 70s when 70 cents was a lot! When I started driving, gas was commonly 30 cents/gallon in New England and maybe 20 cents/gallon in Texas.
At least until recently, in real dollars (that is, any prior dollar value converted to today's dollars), the early 80s were the most expensive, but we may be passing that mark now.
Although none of us want to pay any more for gasoline or fuel oil than we do today,
if you look at current pricing/wages compared to 25 or
30 years ago, it really isn't so bad.
At $2.50/gallon, gasoline costs 10 times what I paid,
when I bought my first car in 1969.
Interestingly enough, a similar car now costs 10 times as much, and my current mortgage is about 10 times my 1970 rent.
Fortunately, I now earn more than 10 times what I earned then.
And that's probably true for most people.
Buy a fairly fuel efficient vehicle, be reasonable with the thermostat,
don't be blatantly wasteful and quit worrying about it.
Hard times are coming, and I understand what Vicky is saying (that didnt help China much with the One Child Policy, China might have less people than was first believed several years ago, but now the Chinese are spending 3 TIMES as much even with the conservation policies they have). - but I agree that we have to change somewhat. Whether if its the oil buddies of Bush (which, he cannot defend the border so boo to him) keeping all the money for themselfs (seriously- you mean to tell me that Oil gonna run out? Not Bloody Likely- its that we have no more refineries, and the Oil that haves very little sulfur, which alot of countries have in spades, cannot work with most american cars.) or we are reaching the peak... we still have things to hold on to and protect.
Diffrent folks want to say we are heading into the Post Modern Stone Age (if you have watched any early Japanese animation like Megazone 23 and Akira, or hell, even dark angel on Fox for examples) But I say its just a small correction. Just change the way the cars work or use other ways of getting energy. Its gonna be hard for like 5 years but if companies do care of getting new Energy, then those companies will become bigger than Oil...
Just a thought.
in the US, we pay farmers not to go things. Have them grow more corn. Ethinol! It could be the easiest migraton from gas. So why? I think you can find the answer when you track down the only ethinol lobbist in DC! You can ask the lobbiests and reps from OPEC, Exxon/Mobil, BP and the state of TX, where to find them.
Thanks to Hurricane Katrina, Americans could soon see $4 a Gallon.
Looks like I might be using my scooter full-time, and to correct an earlier post...mopeds have pedals-not scooters....
A lot of people don't realize the shit storm we're in. Most gas comes to the cities not in trucks but pipelines. Most pipelines run through New Orleans and the gulf coast.
Pipelines are powered by electricity. Electricity is out in Louisiana, and can't be restored because of flooding, so the two biggest pipelines are out for the forseeable weeks.
Gas in Atlanta is now being sold at $5 / gal, and stations are running out of gas, and panic is setting in. Gas is already gone to $4 in many cities because of Katrina. Around New Orleans, it is going for $7/gal.
In Atlanta, news outlets are reporting, many stations are out of gas. Distributors are already rationing to stations. Panic buying is occurring in the southeast and mid Atlantic.
New York, DC and other east coast towns have 7-10 days worth of gas in storage depots, then it will basically run out, till the pipelines can somehow get running again.
Expect gas to be $4 tomorrow in NYC and $5-6 in NYC by Saturday.