No more smoking.....

fuck the new law.....it is forbidden since 2008 too smoke a cigarete in any bar,disco,restaurant....you can smoking only on the street or at home....

this world is going crazy....what about the smoke from cars,airplanes,factorys.....that is much worse for our health....i am going too a bar for a beer and stick up a cigarrete.....so what???? a lot of people smoking cigarettes and now the smokers are scum since the smoking law....i smoking a lot and think this is a very dumb,stupid law from the politics......kill theme..... :x :evil: :evil:

Smokers can smoke all they want as long as their smoke doesn't bother non-smokers. I mean when I go to eat at a restaurant I don't want people blowing their smoke my way. It's disgusting!

Not to mention I lost a lot of people (smokers) due to lung cancer.....

lung cancer could happen too everyone...even when you never smoke a cigarette....

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Originally Posted by ImpulZ

cars,airplanes,factorys.....that is much worse for our health...

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How do you figure?

I have a story about smoking & the long term ramifications.

My grandmother smoked... for five years.... back in the 1950's. Once she got preg with her first kid she quit, never smoked again, never lived or worked or hung out close to second hand smoke, it was a small 5 year habit and that was it.

Fifty years later, while I was in high school she got bladder cancer and ended up having most of it removed. In talking to her surgeon he said that it is common for seniors who smoked, even if it was 50+ years since they quit, tend to develop bladder cancer in their late 70s-onward.

That month he had 40 patients like her, virtually identical situations.


I have never seen something similar, with such similar user long term ramifications, resulting from car use. Used motor oil can cause skin cancer, but I so rarely hear of it actually being a widespread problem even for mechanics.

Looking at it as an issue of risk, sure you could get in a car wreck and die... but you're probably more likely to have health consequences from smoking then you would be likely to run into from motor vehicle use. Even if you never get cancer from smoking it does real damage to your body with every use which is more than what cars can claim.

i must say that smoking is not good and yeah your condition is getting a little bit worse......but i knew people who smoking there whole life and still are alive and got no healthy problems...just like me....i dont know or smoking cigarettes would kill you because there are a lot of other diseases that kills you......

Dude, the point is if you want to take that risk it's fine, but you are indirectly making that decision for everyone around you. Not only is there a health risk, but if you smoke around someone, they go home smelling like smoke. Is that fair?? Why must I take YOUR habit home with ME? If I choose to fine, but I have no choice in the matter.
If cig smokers weren't so selfish and obnoxious, it wouldn't be such an issue, but they feel they have a right to blow smoke in your face and throw cigarette butts on the ground. It's so much easier to deal with pot smokers because they don't want to get busted therefore are more discreet, try to keep the smoke away from others and dispose of the evidence. Maybe you guys should act more like that.

I am a smoker too, but although I was initially very angry about the ban I've pretty much come round to it. I stopped smoking for about 4 months to see what it was like, and by the end, even smelling it on someone's breath when they came in from the street was gross and made me feel slightly unwell. We should be allowed our habit - and I'm disgusted by how much we're taxed on it - but I think we need to acknowledge how unpleasant it would be for the non-smoking majority to have it back inside public spaces.

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Originally Posted by ImpulZ

lung cancer could happen too everyone...even when you never smoke a cigarette....

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You don't understand probability. I bet you buy lottery tickets.

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Originally Posted by scroller

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Originally Posted by ImpulZ

lung cancer could happen too everyone...even when you never smoke a cigarette....

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You don't understand probability. I bet you buy lottery tickets.

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i am dutch and my englisch sucks....writing and reading...sorry for that...i just try too say that its strange too never smoking a cigarrete again in a bar.... and never i smoking when people too ask me that :)

The whole thing about second hand smoke and lung cancer just distracts from the main issue, I guess you could call it a smokescreen. Most certainly people who live with a smoker, or those who work in a smoky environment (bartenders and waiters) are exposed to enough of it to impact their health.

I think the main issue is the fact that it stinks. I mean it really stinks. It is horrible, disgusting. I couldn't imagine eating food around that smell. Like the previous poster I am a former smoker, pack a day for ten years then quit cold turkey a year and a half ago. I can honestly say that I would never go into a restaurant or bar that permitted smoking inside now, not for my health but because it stinks. The same reason I wouldn't eat or party in a public restroom.

That being said, whether or not laws should be enacted to deal with this or just let the free market deal with it is a valid question. If all non-smokers felt like I do then restaurants and bars would accommodate us and ban you stinky fuckers without the need for the government to intervene. Then again the average consumer nowadays does not realize the power they wield with their dollars and so the solidarity required to enact a change rarely happens.

Also I think that all these taxes on cigarettes are bullshit as well. I mean it would be one thing if the revenue generated went into a fund that benefited sick smokers but it doesn't. Usually it goes into the general fund or is earmarked for schools, because these so-called "sin taxes" are about the only tax the public will approve come ballot time (because the majority doesn't smoke, the majority will vote for a smoker's tax).

Anyway I think you should take the opportunity to have some outside time every time you want a puff.

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lung cancer could happen too everyone...even when you never smoke a cigarette....

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Yet all the people who died at my work due to lung cancer were heavy smokers.

Smoking is like playing russian roulete. Sure it can go fine for a long time until you hear a bang, that's your lung saying I can't take it anymore, put me out of my misery!

Seeing that I've lost a -smoker- friend to lung cancer, I'm all for this law.

The only problem is that when you're in a packed bar, you're now attacked by body odour, bad breath etc.... which used to be concealed by the heavy 'smokescreen'.

A co-worker who worked under me also died of lung cancer two months ago. He died within two months after he got the bad news. I still can't believe he's not with us anymore. I still remember the times I asked him when he would stop smoking and he kept saying he's trying and he's trying but it's not easy until it was too late. I miss him a lot!

damned..I thought I was not the only one who smoked on this forum....where is the support smokers....shame on you not.....in these days is everything bad 8) :twisted:

Maybe all the smokers decided to live healthy ;-)

Most of the board members here are from the US, I think. Smoking bans have been in place there for years, last time I was there I noticed that few people smoked- a lot less than in Holland at least.

Man, what kind of guys are you when there´s so much death around you. :lol:

Most of my friends are (heavy) smokers, my parents are smokers and many other family members and no one died. I´m not saying that smoking doesn´t cause lung cancer but it´s funny to read your posts about "so many people you know who died of lung cancer because they were heavy smokers". Sounds like a massacre.
A friend of mine was diagnosed with lung cancer last week. He wasn´t a smoker but he had trouble with his throat since he was a kid. The cells spread to the lung and that´s the bad news. Sure, smoking is bad an sucks but being a smoker is not a suicide at all.
When it comes to this law in Holland, I think it´s wrong and pointless. If you want to care about people´s health, close down the fucking tobacco industry. Grab the problem where it really lasts. I know it´s not fair to non-smokers in restaurants and bars but there are many solutions. You can make it right for non-smokers and those who like to enjoy a cigarette with coffee.

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Sure, smoking is bad an sucks but being a smoker is not a suicide at all.

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Originally Posted by Coroner

If you want to care about people´s health, close down the fucking tobacco industry. Grab the problem where it really lasts.

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Ah, our government depends on the taxes on tobacco for a significant part of their budget. They won't stop you from smoking, they'll just increase the taxes to 'discourage' it.

@dinand that could happen.........not for everyone who smoked afcourse :wink:

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Originally Posted by ImpulZ

fuck the new law.....it is forbidden since 2008 too smoke a cigarete in any bar,disco,restaurant....you can smoking only on the street or at home....

this world is going crazy....what about the smoke from cars,airplanes,factorys.....that is much worse for our health....i am going too a bar for a beer and stick up a cigarrete.....so what???? a lot of people smoking cigarettes and now the smokers are scum since the smoking law....i smoking a lot and think this is a very dumb,stupid law from the politics......kill theme..... :x :evil: :evil:

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LOL, That is a good one. I don't know what state you are in, but here in California they outlawed smoking in public places years ago. I can understand not being able to smoke in restaurant while others are eating, but in places like bars and clubs is just crazy. Most of the people that go to places like that do smoke. And as far as exaust from cars goes, you are absolutely right. The exaust is much worse that casually walking by a smoker. It's funny to see a mother round up her kids and walk wayyyyyy out of the path of a smoker (that has happened to me many times while I am smoking), but if that same kid tells mommy he is hot while they are sitting stuck in heavy traffic she will tell him to roll down the window.

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Originally Posted by Dinand

Yet all the people who died at my work due to lung cancer were heavy smokers.

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Every smoker knows it is bad for them, and if they choose to go ahead with that then that is their business. Quitting may not be easy, but it ain't that hard either.

People can do whatever they want, so long as it doesn't impinge on others.

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Originally Posted by ImpulZ

@dinand that could happen.........not for everyone who smoked afcourse :wink:

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That's not necessarily true, I'd bet good money that if we did an autopsy on your body after you die, regardless the reason for that death (it could be old age when you're in your 80s) it won't be hard to find significant tissue damage resulting from long term smoking.

Have you ever seen what a smoker's lungs actually LOOK LIKE in a corpse compared to a nonsmoker's corpse?

That translates into real health problems, even if they are not always fatal ones. Your lung capacity WILL take a hit.

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And as far as exaust from cars goes, you are absolutely right. The exaust is much worse that casually walking by a smoker. It's funny to see a mother round up her kids and walk wayyyyyy out of the path of a smoker (that has happened to me many times while I am smoking), but if that same kid tells mommy he is hot while they are sitting stuck in heavy traffic she will tell him to roll down the window.

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Actually I think car exhaust is actually safer. The carbon monoxide can kill you if the conditions are right (no reading the paper while you're idling your car in your closed garage), and IF co2 causes climate change it could lead to long term health risks (flooding, natural disasters, food production system loss, etc)... but the chemical compounds themself are not that bad for the most part.

There are drastically fewer mutagens, carcinogens and other hazardous compounds in typical car exhaust gases. These gases typically contain particulate matter, carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, sulfur dioxide, CO2.... and to a lesser degree PAHs when the car is not operating efficiently (out of tune), and there can be trace amounts of benzene, and Formaldehyde depending on various factors (fuel used, engine condition etc).

Generally even states like CA-land, in exhaust gas regulation, are only truly concerned about the CO, nitrogen compounds, sulfur compounds and little else. Most of these chemicals in an open environment are benign, and in some cases like CO2 are critical for life on the planet (the question is what will too much do). There is a possibility that PAH's may cause cancer, but that hasn't been definitively documented outside of certain situations in the lab using test animals.

Benzene is bad, but it is also one of the common chemicals in smoking and I am unable to find how the benzene production compares between smoking & cars so it is possible one produces more than the other.

Formaldehyde is used in a lot of plastics, again I am not sure how much a typical car may produce, so it is hard to assess risk here.

Obviously any chemical that may produce adverse effect is going to be worse in a confined area, we see this with smog in LA (despite being an open space the geography limits the atmosphere's ability to "blow the pollution out of the area", NYC is similar in this regard but not as extreme), and we see this with smoking in small indoor spaces as well. Smoking bans are kinda stupid given this, if the real reason for them is safety, in any system that allows parents to smoke while driving their kids around in cars. There is also evidence that children, especially young children, are more at risk to health problems resulting from chemical exposer because they're still developing and risk acquiring developmental conditions as a result of exposers. There are chemicals that are entirely fine for elementary school kids that cannot be given to pregnant or breastfeeding mothers because they cause birth defects, as an example.

Now since the health risks from smoking is indisputable, even if it does not kill every smoker, then there is another justification for smoking bans. Even in America there is some level of government run health care (medicare, medicaid and veteran affairs) and so every smoker is taxing these programs with expenses that otherwise would have been avoidable (since there is no way to know when a smoker will either take part in these welfare programs or impact the health of someone who does via 2nd hand smoke). In addition to draining tax payer dollars, it also hurts the entire community fiscally; including nonsmokers, as every time someone engages in (medically) self destructive behavior when that individual is taking advantage of health care systems (public or private) the community at large foots the bill (the alternative would be to go "you stupid citizen, you knew smoking was bad so we're not going to pay for your cancer treatment or painkillers so you can die a slow, agonizing death...").

If I am paying into a private health care plan via my employer, I am paying for the treatment for anyone in my company who smokes- so it is effecting me in more ways than direct health ramifications. The problem with this argument is that, if we are to play the "self destructive behavior needs to be illegal across the board" card then suddenly we have to go back to a system in which things like sexual promiscuous behavior is illegal (since it could tax our health care systems through the transmission of STDs), all the way down to such absurdities as "you must wear this amount of clothing in the winter so you don't catch a cold"

Clearly smoking is bad for a person. I'm smoking as I type this post, and I know it's not healthy, but I enjoy doing it. I don't know why, it's a pretty stupid thing to do, but it's become a habit for me and I find it relaxing.

To further explore this subject:

I think I mostly enjoy the process of smoking. I like tapping down the cigarette, the lighting of the lighter (a wood match is even better), watching the smoke curl up in intricate patterns, and the idea that what I'm doing is clearly bad is somewhat appealing as well, for some reason..

I'll quit when I'm 40 years. That's the plan at least.

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Originally Posted by hondarobot

I'm smoking as I type this post

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God I miss smoking though

u dumb, smoking being stopped makes sense, stopping cars from driving, what u crazy, dumb question, im all for stopping it

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Originally Posted by Dinand

Smokers can smoke all they want as long as their smoke doesn't bother non-smokers. I mean when I go to eat at a restaurant I don't want people blowing their smoke my way. It's disgusting!

Not to mention I lost a lot of people (smokers) due to lung cancer.....

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i agree 100%. Even at a bar, just because i wanna go grab a beer, why should i come out smelling like an ashtray?? Take that nasty shit outside.

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Originally Posted by sucka4chix

Dude, the point is if you want to take that risk it's fine, but you are indirectly making that decision for everyone around you. Not only is there a health risk, but if you smoke around someone, they go home smelling like smoke. Is that fair?? Why must I take YOUR habit home with ME? If I choose to fine, but I have no choice in the matter.
If cig smokers weren't so selfish and obnoxious, it wouldn't be such an issue, but they feel they have a right to blow smoke in your face and throw cigarette butts on the ground. It's so much easier to deal with pot smokers because they don't want to get busted therefore are more discreet, try to keep the smoke away from others and dispose of the evidence. Maybe you guys should act more like that.

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u nailed it homie. couldnt hav said it better myself.

Fuck Tobacco, Smoke Marijuana