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Circumcision - un-necessary but done for religion comes to mind but regardless to that, it wouldn't just be religious who are abusing their children it would be any who indoctrined them into conforming to their parents believes other than ones which contribute to them growing healthy and allowing them to have open and questioning minds when they develop.
seanchai
Interesting debate. I kind of agree.
In regards to circumcisons. Isn't it better to be circumcised? Plus, I'd hate to have to wash my dick every time I use it for one reason or another, plus, I am and I've seen guys/trannies in movies who have foreskin and I am disgusted by it.
AGTFB
I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT ANYTHING THAT IS ENFORCED ON A CHILD IS ABUSE,, THERE IS A DIFFERANCE BETWEEN DISIPLINEING YOUR CHILD TO RAISE HE/SHE WITH VALUES , AND LET THEIR MIND EVOLVE FOR WHEN THEY ARE OF AGE TO MAKE U UP THEIR OWN CHOICES. OPOSE TO ENFORCING RELIGION, OR ANY WAY OF LIFE AND MAKING THEM FEEL THAT ANY OTHER WAY OUT SIDE WHAT YOU MAY BE TEACHING THEM IS WRONG. REMEMBER CHILDREN ARE SPONGES AND WILL INTAKE EVERYTHING AROUND THEM, WHY CLOG THEIR MINDS & SOULS AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE??
I'm cicumcised also but there is no proof that is's better, whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by AGTFB
The reason you are disgusted by a foreskin is because you are indoctrined to believe that it's disgusting - ergo, child abuse.
Most Europeans are not circumcised and to many of them it's considered barbaric.
seanchai
I tend to agree with Nietzsche and his views on religion...so yes I think its harmful as religion has zero to do with morality and spirituality...just ask Pastor Ted
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGTFB
If you read, Bravo Two Zero by Andy McNab, there's a moment where SAS soldier Andy is saved from death by Iraqi's due to having a foreskin.
so you're saying in essence parenting should just cease to exist? the child will eventually figure it out for themselves, why teach any values to them at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by JANIRA
I think values and morals should be taught, but not forced. whether it be religion, veganism, political opinion, whatever. teach your child what you beleive is right, but allow them to think for themselves.
A very good topic, definitely odd forum. Consider the following:
1. It is the sole purpose of the Parent(s) to prepare their children for adult life in society. The success of the children is greatly influenced by the teaching and examples set by the parents.
2. If a parent has a strong belief, it would be impossible for them not to want to incorporate this belief system into their child. Not only impossible, but irresponsible. Remember, these people believe in the importance of their ideologies as strongly as others believe in the importance of education, of wearing condoms, eating well, etc. It is a life and death belief. Why would you not teach that to your children?
3. That obviously begs the big question; what belief is right? Are any of them true? Who is to decide? If we allow one to be generally accepted, how can you not allow others? If you ask a Christian, he would give you numerous reasons that the Muslim religion is not only bad but possibly harmful. Others could say the same for Christians. And if you really think of it logically, all religions are based on huge leaps of faith to accept each premise, all based on some form of ancient or recent mythology.
Bottom line is, some people believe that if we could eliminate all religion the world would be a better place. I personally know humans that, without religion in their life, would and could not be a productive member of society, as they have no ability to think and control their actions for themselves.
There is no right answer. We cannot save everyone. Parents must be responsible for their children. Once the child is of age, they can decide for themselves their future course. If their life was damaged irreparably by their parents upbringing, that was their lot in life. Others are born to poverty, disease, slavery, etc. The world can be a cruel place, especially for the innocent.
Christianity formed the foundation on which America has become the worlds only Superpower and largest humanitarian contributor.
It has brought not only real global leadership, but a STRONG and FAIR one at that.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.Quote:
Originally Posted by TFan
Nice. Needed a laugh on this cold day.
seanchai
You can laugh all you want but this topic has been covered on this board before. All who disagreed with me were subsequently PWN3D.
This should be all the proof anyone needs, that religion is bad news :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by TFan
uh huh....Quote:
Originally Posted by TFan
we just had to git rid a them pesky redskins first, right paleface?
LOL. Liberals like the founder of the Republican party, Abraham Lincoln?Quote:
Originally Posted by J
You're a comedian!
Calling me paleface? Come on sheepmike. I'm sure you know that's not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by chefmike
Well I'm gonna let you paint yourself into a corner here. What exactly are the differences?Quote:
Originally Posted by J
No problem Uncle Tomahawk... :PQuote:
Originally Posted by TFan
No problem Uncle Tomahawk... :PQuote:
Originally Posted by TFan
Oops...double post...
I guess that makes you Uncle Two Tomahwks... :lol:
That's what makes it so funny - idiots like you really believe not only is America the only superpower and the largest humanitatian but that it is a world leader in fairness and with strength.
It's not worth arguing about but not wonder the majority of Americans are embarressed about people like you and pray that you don't travel abroad to sully it for them.
When you get a passport and travel further than Mexico or Canada (and not on the goverments expenense account) then feel free to comment - otherwise, shut the fuck up ... again.
seanchai
TFan said:
I'm surprised you don't know them, TFan. If you did, you would know that initially the Republicans were the party that embraced more liberal values and that over time the so called "GOP" has strayed from its priorities- it's values now are more conservative and its actions are far less progressive. This has been happening for a century but really took of after the war when the Democrats were seen as the more progressive party. In the 1970s and 1980s the Republicans emerged as a truly conservative party.Quote:
Well I'm gonna let you paint yourself into a corner here. What exactly are the differences?
During the 1940s and 1950s the Republicans hounded alleged communists and put them on trial. Some went to jail, but all they had done was write or make a movie. A decade later the Democrats helped to bring down segregation.
And without meaning to offend southerners, the south, the last bastion of both slavery and segregation slowly turned from Democrat to Republican.
And I haven't mentioned Richard Nixon yet. The less said the better.
A hundred or so years ago Republicans were the ones with the progressive ideas and the urge to fight oppression. Now I think that Abraham Lincoln (who was not the party's founder but one of its earliest and certain its greatest member) would be embarassed to be a part of it.
You can read all this and more on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...publican_Party
1.) Religion is not "child abuse". The closed minded society in the secnario in the original post was doing the abusing. Otherwise the answer is that for a family or minority group to try and preserve it's identity they must abuse their kids by not conforming to the majority. That and religion does more harm than good because fear of hell keeps more people in line than the laws of man.
2.) Circumcision == supersition.
3.)The US can project more raw millitary force onto any other country than any other country or group of countries (ie the EU). But we cannot anihillate the Taliban who actually control most of Afganistan and our arch enemy is a mere terrorist organizeation. :-? Hmm...basically we are the sole surviving superpower because no one else has the navy and airforces to challenge us, or threaten our homeland.
Oh I know them. I'm more curious about what you think is reality. The premise of the Republican party has remained the same. Free citizens, good education, free industry. The republican party is the party of Lincoln. We still hold these same values.Quote:
Originally Posted by LG
You're right. The party is less progressive than it was 150 years ago.Quote:
If you did, you would know that initially the Republicans were the party that embraced more liberal values and that over time the so called "GOP" has strayed from its priorities- it's values now are more conservative and its actions are far less progressive.
Because everything has limits.
The Republican party still maintains the same values it did 150 years ago. Free people, free industry and education. What you call progressive is actually a perversion of the word. Truly free men do not need affirmative action, EEOC, hate-crime bullshit or welfare. They do not need reparations. Your use of the word "Progressive" is a farce. Free men need only the US constitution in it's current form. Not the subjugation of the "new progressive".
Equal protection under the law.
Progressiveness, like everything, has it's limits.Quote:
This has been happening for a century but really took of after the war when the Democrats were seen as the more progressive party. In the 1970s and 1980s the Republicans emerged as a truly conservative party.
During the 1940s and 1950s the Republicans hounded alleged communists and put them on trial. Some went to jail, but all they had done was write or make a movie. A decade later the Democrats helped to bring down segregation.
And without meaning to offend southerners, the south, the last bastion of both slavery and segregation slowly turned from Democrat to Republican.
And I haven't mentioned Richard Nixon yet. The less said the better.
A hundred or so years ago Republicans were the ones with the progressive ideas and the urge to fight oppression. Now I think that Abraham Lincoln (who was not the party's founder but one of its earliest and certain its greatest member) would be embarassed to be a part of it.
You can read all this and more on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...publican_Party
"Free people" is progress
Free enterprise is progress
A strong military is progress
Strong laws are progress
Abortion is not progress
Nanny-state-ing is not progress
Wealth transfer schemes are not progress
Affirmative Action is not progress
This is where liberalism is a lie. It's not progress at all.
Why isn't abortion progress?
seanchai
One might think it’s also child abuse to indoctrinate a class of children into the conundrums of long division and the labyrinthine mysteries of grammar. But one can understand that parents and society have an interest in teaching children what they need to know to survive and be happy in world. I only bring this up because it contrasts so well with religious and political indoctrination. In the US we teach whole classes of six year olds to pledge their allegiances to the United States of America, children who don’t even know what an “allegiance” is! Does that strike anyone as sick? Children deemed too young to stay home alone, watch unfiltered TV or eat sweets between meals are ushered down the church aisle and required to commit their eternal souls to the god of their parents. These kids think an eternity is the time from one Christmas to another! One would think that a parent who would allow and encourage their child to make that kind of commitment would have no trouble at all allowing their child to commit to marriage, or a lifelong shoulder tattoo, or sex reassignment surgery. Does anybody here, including Tfan, really think that very young children generally are morally and intellectually prepared to make lifetime (or even eternal) commitments?
Thanks for asking so nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
And the answer is yes. The human soul is prepared and sanctified for such at conception.
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."- Jeremiah 1:5
And I'd like to ask.
When are the children "ready"?
I don't oppose gay rights and neither does the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by J
You speak nonsense.
The civil rights movement is done, it's over. Abraham Lincoln (R) started it and it's now over.Quote:
resisting the civil rights movement is progress
You speak nonsense.
And dictating wages is progress? LMAO No wonder you guys are in love with Ahmadinejad.Quote:
fighitng to keep minimum wages down is progress
That's not the governments job. It is the individuals job and it will happen if there is a demand. It WON'T happen because of government decree.Quote:
not bringing the US up to par with most developed countries in alternative energy sources is progress
You really are in love with dictatorships, aren't you? What else should the government force people to do?
Damn straight.Quote:
the patriot act is progress
Yeah they will. They see a naive poster on hungangels pretty much making it clear that he's in love with dictatorship. That-Quote:
well we can go on, but i think all fair minded people...
The government should determine wages.
The government should determine ecological policy even down to an individuals home.
That the government should require require racial quotas
Sounds, convincingly, like dictatorship to me.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's all I need!
I believe it was Robert Byrd(D) under the white hood and not Strom Thurmond.Quote:
see whats under his hood...lemme see if i can dig up some gool ole southern strom thurmond speeches to show some more ideas of republican progress...
You know? This guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd
Yeah, he's still alive. He's still a racist and he's still double talking.
And he "is poised to return to his position as President pro tempore of the Senate in January 2007"
Yeah that's your guy. I'm gonna break this one out for you-
"with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."- Robert Byrd(D).... KING OF THE DEMOCRATS!
In 2nd grade I got a chunk of hair pulled out of my head in Catholic School because I made my G like a 6, and I cried that shit hurt. If that would happen today would it be considered Child Abuse and would the teacher get in trouble ?
Oh by the way after 2nd grade no more Catholic school. Plus I was always scared to go to Church on Sunday, for I thought one of the Nuns or Priest would be the shit out of me. Great System .
Should have gone to the cops and had those fuckers arrested, or your parents should have. They should have protected you.Quote:
Originally Posted by rico del rio
Parents ? My old man would be the fuck out of me most nights because he was nuts. So until I turned 14 I realized how come my friends pops don't throw them beatens. My mom was clueless and thought I was probably being a bad boy.After :? all Nuns were Angels sent from God.
Wow what a fuckin childhood that just brought back bad memories. And to think I have never been hospitalized for insanity :o
J
Awesome post you hit that right on the nail. Thanks.
No one has to sell facts. There may be few conservatives pushing for such amendment, but the fact that the amendment hasn't passed despite the fact that Republicans have held control over Congress for 12 straight years says a lot about our values. We have simply refused that kind of bigotry. No need to sell the fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by J
You're projecting your poor character and lack of values onto me and society at large. Maybe you're from a bad family?Quote:
and the civil rights movement is done for a racist like u who wishes to just stop hearing about past problems and unfairness in society...it isnt over for black people and all fair minded people...ME, a fuckin rich jewish white guy knows and admits that a black guy has no fuckin chance to get a top level position in most law firms, banks, or corporations in general...stop fuckin around...johnny cochran is an anomoly...and u know it..u know that the civil rights movement is not even close to over...it will be over when there will be a true level playing field...if u invite a bunch of guys to play poker and everyone gets the same number of chips, but u and a few friends cheat and screw over some friends and it costs them half the chips
Me? I'll take your poker chips because I recognize fish when I see it. Just like when Republicans put a "Withdraw from Iraq" bill up for a vote.
We call your bluff on Capitol Hill and we'll take your chips at the table, too, Donk.
And don't give me that typical condescending bullshit of "A Rich Jewish White guy" bullshit. That's your fucking problem. You think you're a god damn savior. There was a guy named Frederick Douglass. Turns out he was an abolitionist. He was black and he was a slave.
Once upon a time he ran into this guy named Garrison.... Garrison was a typical Bos-Wash condescending liberal with guess what?
A savior complex.
You'd make Frederick Douglass vomit with your "Rich jewish guy here to save the blacks" bullshit.
Your infamous quote will live on as testament to your tacit bigotry.
ME, a fuckin rich jewish white guy knows and admits that a black guy has no fuckin chance to get a top level position in most law firms
Frederick Douglass says, in response to that kind of tacit bigotry-
In regard to the colored people, there is always more that is benevolent, I perceive, than just, manifested towards us. What I ask for the negro is not benevolence, not pity, not sympathy, but simply justice. The American people have always been anxious to know what they shall do with us... . I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us.
-Frederick Douglass
What Douglass was saying is "Get off my jock you condescending liberal bitch! Stop fucking me up with housing projects and welfare!"
LMAO. Your bigotry is the worst kind. Tacit bigotry!
You got to be kidding. Dollars and the expansion & preservation of wealth were the foundation on which America became the worlds only Superpower in this period of history. Remember, Rome, Spain and England all had their place as former superpower status.Quote:
Originally Posted by TFan
It's easy to be labeled the Largest humanitarian contributor when you have the most bucks. Besides we have to keep our overseas consumers alive.
Nothing like stroking your own dick and cooing "I'm a good boy aren't I?" in your daily affirmation.Quote:
Originally Posted by TFan
Whatever. You're a condescending, tacit racist and you don't even know it. You must have gone to the "William Lloyd Garrison School of Tacit Racism"... I mean, you're really good at it and good at hiding it from yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by J
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezed
Hellz yeah. America rulez and get a brain morans!
America is the greatest country the world has ever seen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFan
Hahahahahahahahahaha
just keeps getting better.
Moron was invented for you.
Gosh - I've changed my mind. Don't give him a passport keep him where he is.
Hahahahahaha
seanchai
Ok god he is still here- I have to take care of this isuse ASAP
Threats and insults is all you guys can come up with?
Your positions are truly weak.
Your right - there is nothing I can say to you - no argument I want to make with you. It's like a SNL sketch - it beggar's belief that anyone can be so ignorant in reality and so small minded.Quote:
Originally Posted by TFan
Thanks for truly making my day - and for giving me good stories around the dinner table about how despite so many people trying otherwise, the stereotype of the bigoted, religiously motivated, world domineering, JW Pepper-like is alive and well, and called Tfan We thought it was a joke.
seanchai
Ok, seanchai. So far you've added that I'm a "bigot" and "small minded". Ok, outside plays from the "Liberal Book of Arrogance and Insults", what else have you added to this thread?
Seriously. All you've done is cast the usual aspersions of "If you disagree with us it's because you're uneducated". Is that the best you're gonna do on this one? Because if it is it only proves my point that your position is truly weak.