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I admit I don't know much about DeSantis, other than the reports I read in the press.
Is he the going to run, or is he just Doo Doo? To stand against Trump must be a risk of being showered in the abuse only New York's most famous Rent Collector can deliver.
There is always the song to fall back on, if you want some real fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-qqi7-Q19k
I know Americans 'have God', but to some this may suggest there is no God at all...
"Florida’s GOP Gov. Ron DeSantis released his latest campaign ad Friday, and it’s out of this world.
After creating light, the sun, the moon, stars, Earth, plants, animals and normal humans, God made “fighter” DeSantis, according to the eye-popping campaign pitch.
“On the eighth day, God looked down on his planned paradise and said, ‘I need a protector,’” intoned a God-like voice on the black-and-white video."
Holy Hell: On 8th Day 'God Made' Ron DeSantis, Says New Campaign Ad (yahoo.com)
He's gonna need a whole lot of love....
Eight Days A Week (Remastered 2015) - YouTube
And Trump (or his team, at least) nicknamed him "Ron DeSanctimonious."
DeSantis does not have Trump’s charisma, not even close. He will not be able to capture the media attention that Trump did, which was a huge factor in Trump’s favor. DeSantis is bland and stiff (but with good hair - that’s about it). He also lacks political skill, in my estimation. He’s shown questionable judgement (having the state of Florida pay for refugees in Texas to be bussed to “blue” states for example). Besides Trump, serious presidential candidates don’t usually engage in stunts.
Thank you for your thoughts. All I can say right now, is that if De Santis does want to run, and I have read some think he would prefer a title fight in 2038, his problem is that with his views and policies he is not going to appeal to non-Republican voters, or disaffected Democrats or even 'swing' voters. Thereagain, if he has seen the writing on the wall with regard to Abortion, he might change his views to broaden his appeal. Or are the Republicans locked into a political culture that makes liberal change impossible?Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Warm
Absolutely zero chance that DeSantis - a Christian Conservative - will modify his abortion position. One of DeSantis’ selling points is that he is a hard liner, someone who doesn’t waver on his positions. He is not going to reach out in an attempt to find compromises with people he disagrees with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
The battle playing out within the GOP is not about changing policies versus not changing policies. Those policies are already set in stone. The battle is about tactics (arguing over Trump’s style and delivery) and whether the party should stick with Trump (and Trumpism) who they believe delivered results (but lost) or should they look to fresher faces, because those people can push the exact same policies without the drama that Trump brings.
Since you’re not American it’s likely that you miss some of the nuances of our politics. When you read our media and see conservative opinion writers like Jennifer Rubin (Washington Post) or David Brooks (NY Times) arguing against Trumpism or the hard tilt towards authoritarianism that Republicans have taken, you must realize that they have no constituencies, they represent almost no actual Republican voters
I agree with your post Luke Warm, but wonder if the policies 'set in stone' can ever crumble. The Florida court for example, has said of the 'Freedom Act' and the ' Stop WOKE' act (and this appears at least to be an acronym for 'Wongs to Our Kids and Employees Act') that its interpretation of Freedom is contrary to the Constitution, and 'positively dystopianl'-
"“Defendants argue that, under this act, professors enjoy ‘academic freedom’ so long as they express only those viewpoints of which the State approves. This is positively dystopian.”‘".
Positively dystopian’: judge blocks key parts of Florida’s ‘Stop-Woke’ law (yahoo.com)
As your post indicates, the consolidation of sectarian politics appears to be immune to change, and while many of Trump's candidates in the mid-terms lost, more than 170 won, and in the House it is said priority will be given not to policies that benefit Districts -tackling homelessness, crime, deficienies in education, transport, etc- but attacking Joe Biden and is family.
And yet there is some evidence across the US that a lot of voters have wearied of this 'attack politics' and want policies that relate to their everyday lives to take priority.
I wonder if this makes a Republican victory in 2024 less likely, if they are so resistant to change? De Santis might win the votes in Florida and Texas, but I doubt he can win over California or the North Eastern States. And I guess this consolidates the idea that Republican States that no longer believe in the Constitution will just carry on doing their own thing. America is a divided country, and I don't see any way that the divisions can be healed. And in some cases, it appears politicians don't want to heal them, but deepen them.
I think Rupert maybe finally turning on Donald Trump:
New York Post Takes Aim at Trump, and Hits a Nerve
http://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/18/bu...sultPosition=1
I think this one is my favorite:
Then, on Wednesday, the paper relegated Mr. Trump’s announcement about his latest run for president to a small headline at the bottom of the page: “Florida Man Makes Announcement.”
Quoting myself here (roll eyes) to add that even though there is scant “anti Trump” sentiment among Republican voters, the hope is that there’s enough of a schism that keeps a few anti-Trump Republicans staying at home on Election Day, enough to keep Republicans out of the White House. Or if Trump isn’t the nominee, then some Republicans stay home because Trump is the only candidate they really want. Because it’s a cult of personality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Warm
The Trump-De Santis contest (assuming it occurs) will be a test of one key question: do Republican supporters want a leader to implement a policy agenda or do they just want a performance artist to nurture their grievances and attack their enemies? What we know about Trump is that he has no idea about policy and is mainly interested in getting revenge for losing the Presidency.
According to AOC in the House yesterday, I think it was, schools in Florida have banned a book on Rosa Parks, as well as Toni Morrison's third novel, Song of Solomon. I also read that in one school they did include Rosa Parks in a lesson, but were not allowed to mention of her Race. It is of course, entirely coincidental that the books are by and about Black Women, as well as issues around LGVTQ+.
I don't know at what age these books are being banned, but in Florida, should the Governor issue a State-wide Ban on The Holy Bible, and ensure that this book replete with violence and incest is removed from school libraries? Maybe if someone can confirm that most of the Bible stories were written by Black people?
Rep. AOC speaks on Republicans banning books - YouTube
More on the Michelangelo Crisis in Florida. Suppose a parent insisted that sixth graders read The Communist Manifesto?
"...the school is required by law to teach lessons on Renaissance art to sixth-graders — typically 11 and 12-year-old children — as a small portion of the annual curriculum. She said that three parents complained that their children were made uncomfortable by the lesson, which included a section on Michelangelo’s David.The school board enacted a rule two months ago requiring parental notification two weeks before the teaching of any "potentially controversial" information.
Two of the three parents who complained about the Renaissance art lesson said they wished they'd been notified before it was taught. The third parent complained the lesson was pornographic, despite being taught to 11 and 12-year-olds who almost certainly have phones and access to fullness of the internet's depravities."
School principal fired for showing Michelangelo’s David in class (yahoo.com)
These people will be in for a shock if they ever take a trip to Europe - 'pornography' everywhere, even in churches.
Attachment 1416093
Americans are happy to sell kiddy-shredding bullets to anyone who can pay for them, and spray their victims all over the walls -but show them a painting by Caravaggio and it is the end of America itself, as if it were what Putin would call it, 'Entartete Kunst'...Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
Facebook Censors Caravaggio’s Nude Cupid, Then Changes Mind | HuffPost Entertainment
Heather Cox Richardson is worth reading. Here is an extract from a report concerning the DeSantis -vs-Disney cartoon frolics-
"After Trump officials mocked him for being beaten by Mickey Mouse, DeSantis today suggested he is determined to use the power of the government to force Disney, a private company, to bend to his authority. He threatened to build a rival amusement park or a state prison on land next to Disney’s Florida park.
Disney promptly responded by advertising a “first-ever Disneyland After Dark” LGBTQIA+ themed event night at its California Disneyland resort, and former Republican National Committee chair Michael Steele tweeted: “When families stop visiting & Disney’s $75.2B economic impact & $5.8B tax revenues drop; its 75K employees face layoffs & 463K jobs are also imperiled what would your analytics say caused that to happen? WTF, Dumbo.”"
April 17, 2023 (Monday) - by Heather Cox Richardson (substack.com)
Its pretty amazing how far Ron De Santis has fallen in the polls since he won his reelection campaign. I think it shows that he isn't/wasn't ready for the big stage of a Presidential campaign. At this point, he better start worrying about his next term as governor.
De Santis doesn't seem to have any clear strategy. He got a boost earlier because many Republicans were looking for an alternative to Trump after the mid-terms, but since then he has done little to differentiate himself. He seems to be saying vote for me because I'm not Trump, even though I agree with him on just about everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
His problem in the Republican primaries is that he just looks like Trump-lite without the charisma. His problem in the general election is that it's hard to see how he could expand the Republican vote by mimicking the same hard-right positions, and sometimes going even further.
This article is good summary of De Santis's authoritarian culture wars agenda in education. All in the name of parental rights, freedom and anti-discrimination, of course - in classic Orwellian fashion they are called the Parental Rights in Education Act, the Individual Freedom Act and the Stop the Wrongs to our Kids and Employees Act.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...education-woke
Freedom through bans!Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
De Santis is the Big Daddy of Florida.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
Below is a link to the speech De Santis delivered to the Heritage Foundation. I watched it all, and note that you will need to fast forward in the broadcast.
On the one hand, it is a coherent statement of what these days passes for 'Conservative Politics' shaped in part by grievance, in part by boastful claims about what Florida has achieved.
1) The claims that were made in his tirade against 'Faucism' are not backed up by data but sniping about mask mandates and freedom, yet Florida had one of the worst records for Covid deaths in the US- thus, with 80,000+ deaths...
"Out of 50 states, Florida’s and California’s cumulative COVID-19 death rates rank 25th and 29th, respectively, with Florida’s 11% higher."
Florida COVID deaths top California, but economy is stronger - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
See also
Why are so many Floridians still dying from COVID? | Editorial (tampabay.com)
2) He boasts about the budget surplus in Florida, but in fact Texas has a larger surplus.
3) He offers a Conservative doctrine -low taxes, low regulation, minimal govt, individual liberty- while attacking the 'indoctrination' of School children, thus
"The purpose of school is not to impose political indoctrination on the student"...and then boasts that CRT has been banned from the classroom where it wasn't taught anyway, and declares students will be taught a different kind of history...the one he agrees with, the one that has a school holiday to celebrate the end of 'Communism' and so forth (starts around 44.32).
His remark on 'curriculum transparency' includes the claim that schoolchildren have been shown 'pornographic material' in the classroom, but what is it? He doesn't offer any detail.
4) at the end, he offers this claim about the Founding Fathers and the Revolution of 1776-this is their 'creed' : "Our rights are not the courtesy of Government but are a gift from Almighty God" (c1.11.00).
-This seems to me to flip the story of 1776 from Men making their own History, to making history not on the basis of Reason, but Faith. This may encapsulate current Conservative thinking, but is at odds with over a century of the Conservative thought that is in the textbooks and history books.
And you don't need a 'Permission Slip' to carry a gun....
Reason or Faith?
Government or the People?
The Constitution or the Bible?
Freedom or Tyranny?
You won't find the answers here. But here he is-
Watch: Ron DeSantis speaks after Florida passes bill allowing trans children to be removed from parents (yahoo.com)
Probably those pictures of Michelangelo's David in art classQuote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
In the video of the speech De Santis gave to the Heritage Foundation (see link in #22 above) the Guv'nor extols the benefits of living in Florida. His near-neighbour Donald J. Trump thinks otherwise-
"“The real DeSantis record is one of misery and despair,” Trump campaign spokesperson Steven Cheung said in a statement. “He has left a wake of destruction all across Florida and people are hurting because he has spent more time playing public relations games instead of actually doing the hard-work needed to improve the lives of the people he represents.”"
Trump throws new insults at the state of Florida in fresh attack on DeSantis | The Hill
Normally when two people from the same party are in conflict, the party suffers. It may be that as support for DS dwindles, he decides not to run for the White House in 2024.
I have never made it to Florida, so I don't know which of the two is close to the truth.
Well if you go by articles like this, its De Santis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...s/11357516002/
While New York State residents moving to Florida is not a new thing (Miami has often been referred to the sixth borough), De Santis can make the case that his state is a destination for business and that its economy is thriving.
Although he probably picked the wrong time to start a battle with Disney.
I will say this though. De Santis didn't do himself any favors by being on a book tour while the city of Fort Lauderdale was in the middle of an historic flood.
http://www.newsweek.com/ron-desantis...floods-1794299
I didn't know that about NY and Miami. I guess they go south in the winter?
It is mentioned in the link that De Santis is a poor team player, if at all. Prefers to discuss policy with his wife than colleagues and rarely remembers their names, if he bothers to talk to them at all. The polar opposite of Trump who needs constant re-assurance and advice because of plain ignorance of policy. I wonder if when the time comes, the Republican candidate will be someone not currently mentioned in despatches -eg. Sununu?
‘Four-time loser’ Trump may not be nominee for 2024, Republican insists | Donald Trump | The Guardian
From the link aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
""Disney was openly and legally granted a unique and special privilege, that privilege of running its own local government," Alan Lawson, a former Florida Supreme Court justice whose firm was hired by the DeSantis-appointed board, said during the board meeting. "That era is ending.""
Should Disney have such rights? Is it the same in California? Or France? Do other corporations or individuals have privileges like Disney? Could the State of Florida handled this issue differently, setting aside the 'Don't Say Gay' law -?
It was a deal made with the state over 50 years ago. I suspect it was corrupt, but the state probably did that to entice Disney to locate here. Look at the literal billions of dollars Disney has brought to the state. But the impetus to nullify that deal was purely petulant retribution on the governor's part, and he has replaced the district with something more corrupt, by appointing all the board members himself. It has nothing to do with the will of the people of the state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
So Ron was at Guantanamo, and is outraged at the suggestion he did anything wrong there, or that anyone could recognize him years later, which, like never happened with someone from Auschwtiz recognizing a camp guard? Hmmm. Seems he had a job to do, and preferred to let the 'Guys' 'do their thing' rather than impose the law.
Ron DeSantis in Guantánamo: how questions about his past haunt the Florida governor | Ron DeSantis | The Guardian
... which will only earn him more Republican voters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
It seems like the more people see DeSantis, the less they like him. He is simply not “presidential” - he sounds whiny and seems weak. When he does act tough, it often seems like bad judgement or an overreach (going after Disney, feuding with other governors, declaring “Florida is where Woke goes to die” etc). If he runs against Trump, he will be curb-stomped. I would love to see DeSantis try to debate Trump, who is basically an insult comic and wildly entertaining. Remember the DeSantis ad where he was reading “The Art of the Deal” to his young daughter? Think that will come up at some point? Trump will tear him to shreds. He’s in a tough position because if he runs for president now, it’s a suicide mission. If DeSantis wisely decides to sit it out (because barring an illness or legal jeopardy, Trump already has the nomination locked up) in 2028 DeSantis will be out of office for 2 years by then (there are term limits for Florida governors, he’s on his last term now). In 2028 he will be off everyone’s radars, and considered old news.
Does DeSantis accept the suicide mission now, or wait until he’s considered irrelevant in 2028 and then fight it out in the primary with a dozen other mediocre Republican wannabes? Both options are terrible. Maybe he could run for Senate in 2026, but everything else is considered a step down from where he is now. We may be witnessing his last hurrahs. Unless something bad happens to Trump.
sorry this is so long winded
Check out DeSantis at this press conference (it’s a 1 minute video). Does this goofball seem “presidential” to anyone? It doesn’t matter what they’re talking about (it’s Guantanamo though)… look at his delivery, his mannerisms, the sound of his voice, the squinting. This guy will never, ever be the president.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w1LJi4ExD8
Useful, not long winded. I think the GOP has a dilemma -Trump remains the man with the Base, but the senior people in the Party, be they in Congress or the State, know he can't win a General Election, while the alternatives are De Santis and Haley, neither of whom can win either, unless the State Legislators who have taken office since Jan 6 decide to use their powers to fiddle with the election results in 2024.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Warm
But there are Democrats who are just as worried that Biden could be vulnerable to a younger Republican candidate.
From what I see, Biden at least has a strong record to run on; but evidence suggests many -most?- voters are weary of both Men, but neither party has a charismatic alternative who can sweep the field, given that Harris doesn't seem to command much in the News cycle. If anything, Biden aside, the people lining up for the Presidency so far are probably the weakest I have ever come across, and I have been following this from the UK since the disastrous Democrat Convention in Chicago in 1968, but again a lot depends on whether Harris wants the job.
Would Harris beat De Santis if it came to that?
I think if it's Trump v Biden in 2024 then bar those State Legislators fixing the vote, it is at least the last time those two will be the News, so I guess as your post suggests, 2028 is the Election the next generation is looking at.
That kind of behavior worked fine for Trump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Warm
Agree that kind of behavior worked for the MAGA King,but it isn't going work for Ron Mussolini.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
He's still very popular with Florida Republicans.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightHawk 2.0
The latest bullshit move:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ords-rcna82605
It’s not the behavior (chastising a reporter) it’s that he comes off sounding weak and whiny. He has less ‘gravitas’ than a toy poodle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
I dunno, maybe I’m wrong, since I assumed everyone would know what I was trying to point out. Maybe some people see DiSantis differently than I do. I think he doesn’t look like he can play the part convincingly, if you know what I mean. His voice and mannerisms seem wimpy to me. But maybe I’m reading it wrong.
Laws like this will be coming to many other states:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/17/polit...ill/index.html