Here in NYC, what is happening during this coronavirus crisis? Let me tell you

here in brooklyn new york (i live at coney island), and new york city, rows and rows of stores have been shut down as you guys already know. how long is this really gonna go on? that stimulus package is a joke. $2400 max for a married couple. rent itself is at least $1000 for the worst dump even in ghetto areas here or the bronx. with utilities and food, that money disappears very quickly, maybe it can stretch 2 months at the most if that.

right around my area, we have stores selling food with OPEN BUFFETS that anyone can take food out of and cough on or touch and put right back. i am stunned this is left open. most people are not wearing masks. maybe 50%. the subways are at 10% capacity from when i used to go to work during rush hour every day. the mentally insane, aka homeless, have taken over and nearly every car has them in a sort, from sleeping/living inside or just being very unpredictable (some homeless guy was openly urinating in the car on the B line). another just burned a car down and killed a train operator a few days back:

https://thecity.nyc/2020/03/motorman...ker-fears.html

buses are free but they are also running empty as you must board from the back and only 50% of the bus is accessible as the front half has been roped off so you don't infect the bus operator.

i am shocked that crime has not risen because criminals know they won't be locked up for misdemeanors due to social distancing in local jails. and yes, nyc is the epicenter of this mess at this time. california may likely take it over but people generally drive. in nyc and its boroughs, everyone lives very close to each other, and once those projects get infected, it's going to be huge.

this all seems like ONE scene from a movie. scares the shit out of me but i am actually living it. what scene? that joker scene when he sets the entire city in chaos and the director slows down the clip and the whirling sound of nothingness. watch this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_7urB6CMgk?t=29

it's like all of us just woke up to a nightmare. this has been terrible.

what else do you guys wanna know?

On one of my trips outside through my neighborhood, I noticed an increased number of guys that were panhandling that I hadn't seen before. Obviously they didn't get the memo about social distancing. So now you're going to be watch your back even more if you happen to say no or ignore one of them when they beg for change.

My neighborhood was already going downhill because of a homeless shelter that was built around here a couple of years. I think the pandemic is only going to make things worse.

Also, handlng cash is a major risk, and here in the UK some shops are now not taking it or asking customers to use plastic (which most of the time I do anyway).

I assume Brooklyn is in the same predicament as we are with the great unknown being -who is going to survive the lock-down? The larger chains like Starbucks may, but small independent coffee shops/cafes, and I assume there are a lot of these in Brooklyn, may not. Can they start up again? Shops that sell clothes may be in for a worse crisis, because at least clothes can be bought online, unlike a flat white or a freshly made sandwich. I would not be surprised if the $2 trillion package Congress approved is just the first, and another one will be needed if it is to address the short-to-medium term cash flow problem that coffee shops (to use them as a model) need. But they also need customers with the money to buy, and I recall for a year or so after the 2008 crisis even in my small town restaurants were half-empty or worse that had always done good business before. Will any new stimulus/rescue package be directed at the small businesses that need it most?

If there is one good thing to come out of this pandemic, is that the city is finally doing something about homeless problem on the subways.

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Originally Posted by blackchubby38

If there is one good thing to come out of this pandemic, is that the city is finally doing something about homeless problem on the subways.

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I hope they stick to it. It’s been an outrage so far. Took the train Thursday - avoided one car that had too many folks camping out in it, and quickly got into an almost empty car before the door closed. Within a second or two, my mask couldn’t block the over powering stench of human feces and I had to go to a third car. This is typical now.

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Originally Posted by fred41

I hope they stick to it. It’s been an outrage so far. Took the train Thursday - avoided one car that had too many folks camping out in it, and quickly got into an almost empty car before the door closed. Within a second or two, my mask couldn’t block the over powering stench of human feces and I had to go to a third car. This is typical now.

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All of those images of homeless people sleeping on the subways that have been on television, in the newspaper, and on social media lately, is what my morning commute has looked like for the past year and a half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDwgIBVkU7g

With everything that has been going on in this city for the past week, this is probably going to be the best chance for the Republicans to nominate a viable candidate in the next mayoral election. Here is hoping they don't mess it up. Because between the pandemic and the rioting/looting, I don't think this city can take another 4 years with a progressive Democrat in office.

Viruses, civil unrest(riots) and just plain crime and filth are the reasons I left the city. Now I live in a sort of red-neckish area that is heavily armed. It's the safest place I ever lived. I should have moved here long ago. And there are idiots that pay millions of dollars for an apartment so they can live in this filth called the city. And they say red necks are stupid.

Everyday I read and/or see something that makes me think that this city is never going to be the same after the pandemic. I don't mean that in a good way.

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Originally Posted by blackchubby38

Everyday I read and/or see something that makes me think that this city is never going to be the same after the pandemic. I don't mean that in a good way.

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It raises the question, for you, for Fred and others from NYC -if you could, would you live somewhere else?

Also, what's been happening with Covid-19 and the election? Some of the report suggest more rather than less restrictions on social gatherings, and problems with ballot papers.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

It raises the question, for you, for Fred and others from NYC -if you could, would you live somewhere else?

Also, what's been happening with Covid-19 and the election? Some of the report suggest more rather than less restrictions on social gatherings, and problems with ballot papers.

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To answer your first question, yes. I can deal with a city being expensive to live in. But what I can't deal with is a city that is expensive to live in that maybe on its way to an economic collapse and all the problems that come with it.

As for your second one, there are more restrictions on social gatherings because there was an uptick in cases in several neighborhoods. The problem is that the neighborhoods are heavily populated by the Orthodox Jewish community and once again it appears that the both Deblasio and Cuomo are signaling them out.

This article goes into detail about what's been happening.

www.nytimes.com/2020/10/08/nyregion/orthodox-jews-queens-brooklyn-closures.html

As for the paper ballots, I really don't know what's going with that. Whatever the problems are, I think its just better to go vote in person.

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Originally Posted by blackchubby38

As for your second one, there are more restrictions on social gatherings because there was an uptick in cases in several neighborhoods. The problem is that the neighborhoods are heavily populated by the Orthodox Jewish community and once again it appears that the both Deblasio and Cuomo are signaling them out.

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Another contender for the malopropism of the month.

I don't understand the logic here. If the restrictions are based on case numbers and they apply equally to all kinds of gatherings then how exactly is that singling out Orthodox Jews? If religious gatherings were exempted that would be singling them out.

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Originally Posted by filghy2

Another contender for the malopropism of the month.

I don't understand the logic here. If the restrictions are based on case numbers and they apply equally to all kinds of gatherings then how exactly is that singling out Orthodox Jews? If religious gatherings were exempted that would be singling them out.

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Restrictions have been applied to religious gatherings.

http://https://www.nytimes.com/2020/...ynagogues.html


Also the article I posted in my previous post is why I mentioned the singling out:

Then in mid-August, the city’s disease data detection program — called SaTScan — began to blare a warning about a rise of coronavirus cases in Borough Park. In response, the city’s new health commissioner, Dr. Dave Chokshi, held an urgent conference call with Orthodox Jewish news outlets to warn of rising transmission and to express concern that public health advice was not being diligently followed in these communities.

But the call grew contentious when Dr. Chokshi was peppered with questions about why Mayor Bill de Blasio and his administration had not shown the same level of concern about the mass gatherings of protesters during the Black Lives Matter demonstrations.

“What justification can we tell readers — why do they have to be careful when the mayor carves out exceptions based on his own personal politics?” one reporter asked Dr. Chokshi.

I've followed the debate about the Orthodox Jewish community with interest. I am secular Jewish but am pretty close with someone who is an Orthodox Jew and I do think it has provided me with some insight into the community. Much of daily life for him revolves around close communal activities and it is difficult for people in that community to socially distance without suspending most of their cultural/religious activities. But then, we've all been asked to make sacrifices. Though I accept that health requirements may alter some people's way of life more than others, that is often the way law works when applied neutrally.

I think that during the Black Lives Matter protests there were a lot of distancing violations and generally state and local officials didn't want to enforce health regulations when the situation was very tense. It's also difficult for me to understand the use of BLM supporters as an example of consequence free gatherings when many peaceful protesters were attacked by police, pepper sprayed and hit with rubber bullets. Public health guidelines were probably not enforced because it was a civil rights protest playing out on the national stage and a tinder box.

Ultimately, I don't think the Orthodox Jewish community has a great argument that it has been singled out. There were a couple of public relations blunders by De Blasio. But the community's record of compliance with public health guidelines has not been good and this is a case where public safety depends on the cooperation of other people. That doesn't mean the community does not face individual acts of discrimination or unfair treatment but I just don't see how the restrictions on public gatherings have been unfairly enforced.

Just my opinion and obviously I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by blackchubby38

To answer your first question, yes. I can deal with a city being expensive to live in. But what I can't deal with is a city that is expensive to live in that maybe on its way to an economic collapse and all the problems that come with it.

As for your second one, there are more restrictions on social gatherings because there was an uptick in cases in several neighborhoods. The problem is that the neighborhoods are heavily populated by the Orthodox Jewish community and once again it appears that the both Deblasio and Cuomo are signaling them out.

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The next question following the first is obvious -if you were to leave NYC where would you go? If your work is based in the city, I assume the suburbs?

The longer term unknown is how dependent on labour the post-Covid city might be. Although I cannot answer that question, my understanding of the impact that war has on societies, if we compare Covid to a war, is that the US economy may experience slow growth over the next 10 years, maybe even a recession. The Second World War and post-war boom in the US followed a decade of depression, a sort of reverse of the norm, but that is also because the US, isolated from Europe, was the war-free zone in which production in the 1940s could thrive.

If it means businesses downsizing, in some cases closing -if they have not closed already- the city's tax revenues will decline even as demand for social services increases, partcularly if the problem of 'Long Covid' with chronic illnesses becomes a reality. If you add in the pressure locally for New York taxes to increase, consider the fate of the national economy, already borrowing billions to pay for the insane tariffs on China, now swelliing by trillions in unemployment pay, furlough schemes, a stimulus act, and so on. In normal times these levels of debt are unsustainable, and it is still possible the US faces bankruptcy. Biden and Harris have to talk positive about the next four years, but I fear the US will be living with the folly of the last four for a long time. As I have said before, I can't see the US surviving financially without tax rises.

The other point to make is now so basic I wonder why I am saying it: Covid-19 is an airborne virus that thrives in social gatherings. The logical thing to do in order to prevent it speading, is to reduce social gatherings, if not in their entirety, then to reduce them to minimal numbers, with testing and tracking mechanisms that work, so that if someone is infected they and the people they were close to can be traced and told to self-isolate.

I fear that the Haredi are claiming some form of victimisation on religious grounds, but so too have some Roman Catholics, Protestant and other Christian churches, even though in every case there is no absolute law that says God can only be worshipped in a place of worship along with 100 or 1,000 others. So be it a Church, a Synagogue, a sports stadium, a night-club, concert hall, a bus or a train, there really are few options other than shutting them down or reducing social contact in them. In the US, I fear the stand taken by the Haredi in New York may resonate with other religious freedom campaigns which seem to me to be excuses for not abiding by the law with regard to discrimination, but that is for another thread.

The problem now, in the UK as well as the US, is that citizens are no longer prepared to obey the Government. Because Government has not only failed at basic tasks -in the UK, with regard to testing and tracing- there is evidence that backers and friends of those in Government are benefiting finanically as Government awards contracts to firms with ties to Presidents and Prime Ministers. The UK test and tracing system is not run by the NHS but by SERCO (see links below).
People will only go so far with loyalty, if the relationship is not seen to be equal across different communities -hence the Haredi critique of NYC and BLM- that crucial relationship of trust breaks down, restrictions are not followed, and cases of Covid-19 increase again.

Regrettably, the virus that should have been in decline by October, appears alive and well. I expect this virus and its disruptive effects to last until the Spring of 2021, prolonged by Government incompetence and social indifference. If a vaccine emerges by then that is effective, we may at least hope that the second half of 2021 will resemble 2019, as this year is a write-off.

Serco-
https://www.theguardian.com/business...never-heard-of
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ope...-trace-scheme/

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Originally Posted by Stavros

The next question following the first is obvious -if you were to leave NYC where would you go? If your work is based in the city, I assume the suburbs?

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Best case scenario, I would move to Westchester, a suburb of NYC that had done a much better job at dealing with the Corona Virus and doesn't have the same restrictions that the city does. At the moment, I'm working from home indefinitely so I would be able to keep my current job.

Adventurous scenario, I would find a new job in another state and relocate. Maybe Ohio or Pennsylvania.

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Originally Posted by blackchubby38

Restrictions have been applied to religious gatherings.

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The point I was getting at was whether these restrictions are more onerous than those applying to other gatherings. If anything they appear to be more lenient, based on the table below.
Attachment 1273819

I agree with Stavros' view that this is part of a trend where religious groups want to get an exemption from generally applicable laws based on a very broad view of what religious freedom is. I also agree with Filghy that religious gatherings in general have not been restricted more than other gatherings with similar numbers of people.

The only claim that remains is that the law hasn't been applied neutrally. Finding one or two cases where a law hasn't been enforced isn't enough to raise the inference that you've been treated maliciously if it's enforced against you. In discrimination cases such comparisons are used as evidence but the examples have to be pervasive enough to raise an inference that the purpose of the different treatment is to mistreat you rather than be lenient in some other case.

I think the Orthodox Jewish community does have sincere concerns but are mostly wrong here (there are also factions so it's not monolithic; some have raised concerns reasonably and some are batshit crazy and violent). I think some people on the far right have used their concerns to act in bad faith because they think it creates a wedge between anti-racist groups and Jews. Orthodox Jews in NYC did suffer an exceptionally large number of hate crimes last year and it was difficult to have a civil and thoughtful discussion about this because so many people on the right were more interested in stoking anti-Black hatred than trying to address the hate crimes. I'm not going to name names but it really is difficult to take concern about Orthodox Jews seriously from people who are completely accepting of bigotry.

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Originally Posted by broncofan

I think the Orthodox Jewish community does have sincere concerns but are mostly wrong here

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Actually I think the Orthodox Jewish community are entirely wrong in this case and should do what they can to comply with public health orders.

Nothing says NYC during a pandemic more than this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlOL648b-tA

But where did he get it from? Can you buy them in gun shops? Bizarre. And now you know why the President is not going to give you any vaccines between now and January, too many weirdoes in NYC...

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Originally Posted by Stavros

But where did he get it from? Can you buy them in gun shops? Bizarre. And now you know why the President is not going to give you any vaccines between now and January, too many weirdoes in NYC...

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I don't think you can buy it in a gun store. But supposedly they're not illegal to own either. So I'm guessing he got it some sort of army surplus store or on the black market.

As for the vaccine thing, that's one fight that I wished Gov. Cuomo hadn't picked with President Trump. Especially since Cuomo made his comments the day after Pfizer made its announcement about the effectiveness of its vaccine.