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fuck Corbyn.
the red flag will be flying LOW come 12th December.
as a life-long Tory, I'm confident we can secure a Brexit deal, and get an absolute majority. nor more DUPers to back us up, we'll be on our own. :wiggle::wiggle:
Farage has no chance. He is single issue. Once Brexit happens, and it will soon, what then? That was his issue with UKIP.
Fuck the Tories. Evil party. EVIL!
Fuck Halloween.
From now on in the UK, the 31st of October will be known as Dead In A Ditch day, in celebration of yet another glorious defeat for our lying Crime Minister!
what's the score now against the bloated bloviator13-2?
Doesn't matter whether it's flying high or low, come the 13th of December, The Red Flag will be flying over 10 Downing Street!
Quote:
Originally Posted by holzz
I can't find any polling information. Do we know anything about how the voting is projected to go?
Depends which polls you're willing to be influenced by, but. at the moment pretty much same as the last election (Though with a lower predicted turnout because it's going to be held in December - apparently, one snowflake falls and the entire south becomes housebound)!Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
Of course. Johnson isn't dead in a ditch, we're not out of the EU, and the country hasn't exploded because of it, so I wouldn't give a pinch of dogshit for any of the polls at the moment.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ividing-britaiQuote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...nson-n6n2njhn0
https://twitter.com/whatukthinks?lang=en
no Jew hate. one of the best PMs ever was Jewish.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtrebus
Sometimes, even I'm speechless!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1190952807756632069
Anything a bit more recent...Last hundred years would do.Quote:
Originally Posted by holzz
Most relevant point: it would be easy for a Jew to become Prime Minister; for a Roman Catholic, impossible.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bori...ninnies-2019-6Quote:
Originally Posted by holzz
You're voting for this guy?
Voting Tory means voting for utter cunts like Jacob Rees-Mogg.
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/s...82815722762240
Quote:
Originally Posted by holzz
Rough day?
https://twitter.com/RobJoyce156/stat...13931945754624Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
At least Kay wasn't interviewing an empty chair.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
Their you go, another one you can thumb down!
Do you have any policies you're interested in or want to see enacted or is it just resentment through and through?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Policies?Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
Yeah, I'd like to see a few enacted.
First and foremost. proper funding for the NHS
(I'm not going to go into personal details here, but that's more than just a battle cry to me)!
End to homelessness.
End to in-work poverty,
End to child poverty.
End to the need for foodbanks. (All a fucking disgrace to our country, the so-called 5th richest nation on earth).
Decent funding for youth services
End to tuition fees.
Re-nationalization of utilities, rail, bus and postal services.
Proper funding for the emergency services - Not trying to catch up with the services they've already cut.
And if I sound resentful, it's because i resent what they've down to us, I resent the MSM pissing down my back and telling me it's raining. I resent them aiding and abetting them, allowing them to get away with it.
Linked below, the FT poll of polls, updated on the 23rd November.
My view, for what it's worth, is that while the polls give the Conservatives a comfortable lead over Labour, this is also what they showed in 2017 when the result was a hung Parliament with the two main parties both polling around 40%. This time around there are bound to be startling results in individual constituencies, because of the controversies in Labour over anti-Semitism, and with the Conservative Party because of their internal haemorrhage of Remain MPs or 'disloyal' MPs expelled from the Party, men and women who are seeking election as Independent MPs, most notably former Attorney General Dominic Grieve, and Justice Secretary David Gauke.
Expect Labour and the Conservatives to either lose all, or most of their seats in Scotland. Labour looks set to lose votes in the North-East and the Midlands, while the Conservatives appear to be losing votes in constituencies in the formerly safe South-East and the Greater London area.
In other words, we don't yet know if the loss of votes for both main parties will result in a loss of seats.
I suspect that formerly safe seats may become marginals at this election.
So far, Corbyn has put Labour at the front of most election coverage, in part because the Party released its 'Manifesto' generating a lot of publicity, in part because the Tories have not. The Conservatives appear to be using Boris Johnson as their 'banker' on the basis that he connects with 'the people' and has more enthusiasm and energy than the other party leaders. It is also a weakness in the sense that Boris Johnson is unpredictable, frequently fails to answer questions truthfully if at all, and with more scrutiny is as untrustworthy as Jeremy Corbyn.
One is depicted as an anti-Semitic, terrorist supporting socialist, the other as a maverick whose party is soaked in Russian cash while the leader is under investigation for not one, but two cases of improper behaviour with women who may have benefited financially and politically when Johnson was Mayor of London, though only one of the two women managed to produce another Johnson baby -the full count of his offspring has not been made.
The Ft poll of polls is here-
https://www.ft.com/content/263615ca-...b-77216ebe1f17
Tony Blair was Catholic. Okay, he only officially converted after he left office. But still.
Yes, I will.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
rather that than anti-Semites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by holzz
Ahem
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9210591.html
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...locaust-tweets
STILL want to play this game, HOLZ?
And where's the report into Islamophobia that was promised...And then shelved?
And while we're on the subject, just what is in that Russia Report?
Labour may have their problems, but at least we're trying to deal with them.
There's a poll missing from that poll of polls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
The one the BBC didn't hold after the Leaders debate.
Though, given their latest bit of jiggery pokery, editing out the audience openly laughing at Johnson, in the clips they released, why am I not surprised?
I'm Jewish and have followed almost every accusation of anti-Semitism, from those that had merit to those that were a stretch to those that were unfair. I don't speak as an authority on the subject, but I would vote Labour if I had to choose between the two. Anti-semitism is not more immoral than other forms of bigotry, though it sometimes carries more stigma because of its recent history in Europe. The Conservative party has let Islamophobia and xenophobia fester within its ranks and is not free of anti-Semitism either.Quote:
Originally Posted by holzz
If bigotry is your primary concern voting for the Tories is a tough sell. This isn't the full greatest hits for the Conservative party but a Councilor for the Tories named Vera Waters said famine in Africa is "nature's way of depopulation." There's more if you're interested. Surely this isn't a good substitute for things that have been said by Labour Councilors.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...c-social-media
At every election the stupid things councillors and candidates say are raised for concern, it becomes a news item, and then dies away.
What we need is the very honesty from the top that is not forthcoming. Both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson refuse utterly to accept that over the next five years every tax that exists must rise, and new taxes be raised, if the party promises are to be kept, if new policies are to be introduced, if existing commitments are maintained because we may be on the brink of a recession when the UK leaves the EU. Many analysts believe we are heading for a re-run of 2008 because household debt and national debt is soaring beyond anyone's control, at some point, money borrowed must be repaid.
The metaphor is there in the Florida Keys: communities under water for three months and nothing has been done about it. Or maybe the residents should just admit that the last place on earth to buy a home is in those Florida Keys that may disappear for ever over the next ten years.
Florida Keys, Brexit, Recession: so absorbed with the lies of 2010-2019 we can't see what's under our feet.
The Financial Times Poll Tracker which was updated yesterday.
https://www.ft.com/content/263615ca-...b-77216ebe1f17
There is a general assumption that the Conservatives will be the largest party, but speculation on the size of their majority, with the outside possibility of another hung Parliament. There is an outside chance of a Labour wipe-out as happened to Socialists in France, Netherland and Italy, but the Socialists did well in Spain, so it is still just a possibility.
Spectacular results in individual constituencies will be intresting to watch: Boris Johnson has not bothered to campaign in his own constituency, the fate of Conservatives thrown out of the party and standing as Independents will be interesting, notably former Attorney General Dominic Grieve, and those who became Liberal Democrats such as Sarah Wollaston.
The regions most vulnerable to Labour decline are in the Midlands and the North-East, while the Conservatives are now vulnerable in the Remain voting constituencies of the South and South-East, but disaffected Tory voters may abstain rather than vote for another party. Voter turnout in recent General Elections has hovered between 70-73%, a low turnout is likely, and this is assumed to benefit the Conservatives rather than Labour. However, more than 3 million new voters under the age of 30 may also make a difference.
I do not/can not believe this country will vote for BritainTrump.
And until the last vote is tallied, I'll spit in the eye of pollsters!
I recently saw a report that said the two major party leaders were the most unpopular pair since they started doing these polls. I really says something about the failure of party politics in the UK that the memberships of both parties have overwhelmingly voted for leaders who have so little support outside of their committed base.
Unfortunately, it is hard to see what might change this. The more that ordinary people turn off politics, the more the parties fall under the grip of committed minorities who don't represent the wider electorate. The first-past-the-post system in the UK seems to make things worse because it perpetuates the duopoly - if you can maintain enough core support you can still win even though the majority of the electorate is opposed to you.
I think those committed minorities represent nobody but themselves. the 1%Quote:
The more that ordinary people turn off politics, the more the parties fall under the grip of committed minorities who don't represent the wider electorate.
Peter Oborne is certainly no friend of Labour, but I found this quite interesting.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...box=1576089179
I'm not fan of Boris Johnson or his party, but I don't think it's just a problem on one side. Put it this way - given the starting point from the last election result and the complete disarray in the government since then, shouldn't Labour be the overwhelming favourite to win this election? If Labour has been unable to capitalise on this situation, doesn't that point to very serious failings in its leadership? It can't just be due to media bias either, because that was equally present last time.
You would think so, but who frames the debate?
Corbyn, loved wherever he goes, Johson, literally booed out of a hospital. Yet if I believed the msm, i would think it was the other way round.
I have been Labour my entire life, but If it hadn't been for 'social media', I'd be thinking about voting Plaid Cymru today (I couldn't vote for the SDP...Even tactically).
A recent story, a child treated on a hospital floor because there were no available beds. Within hours, a 'respected' journalist reporting it as 'fake' news (Ok, not that respected, she was from the Telegraph)
Attached to the same story, TWO major tv journalists reporting that a Labour THUG had attacked a Government advisor - Again, total bullshit they had to withdraw once, an only once, social media showed footage proving them wrong.
Over the last 5 years, I have seen things happening in/to the press I would never have believed possible in a so called 1st world country.
And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to vote...Labour.
On social media Corbyn does seem more popular than Johnson. At rallies, Corbyn also seems to do very well. This can be an indication of the fervor with which someone is liked rather than how broad their appeal is, though it generally bodes well.
I do think Labour will do better than the polls indicate, though I have no way to know. I'm basing this somewhat on the last election, which tightened up at the end.
One thing I think Labour should consider is trying to find a way to unite people across the left. That doesn't mean ceding everything to people who don't want the kind of radical change that improves lives but finding a balance among the viewpoints that exist and building consensus.
The idea that someone who is not within the nuclear core of Corbyn's movement cannot offer constructive criticism is damaging to the party's ability to unite people around common causes.
Anyhow, I have been critical of Labour but if Labour wins then I will be really happy for the ways in which its policies can improve people's lives (see Jericho's post on the last page). If they are not successful, I will take no joy in it but do think it is an indication that there must be a way to unite factions and that some responsibility lies with Corbyn's most ardent supporters.
I don't totally disagree, but, I wish it was just the divisions in the left that need uniting, It's the entire country.
I've tried writing a bunch of stuff down but it just turns into a bigger ramble than usual.
Suffice to say, if Labour lose, I'll be devastated.
Tomorrow will either be a red day or a black day in this country's history.
Anyway, I'm fried....Been watching the impeachment hearings for some light relief!!!
The exit poll is suggesting a Tory landslide, unfortunately. One of the clear lessons of recent years is that there is far more support out there for nationalist/xenophopic views than might be apparent to people like us. Promoting division as a political strategy and seeking some 'other' to blame is clearly dominating over promoting unity and seeking comment ground.
I'm sure it will swing the other way eventually, but I fear that won't happen until the Trumps and mini-Trumps have led us into some kind of disaster that will take a long time to recover from. I've spent most of my life in the comfortable assumption that I would never have to face the sort of crises that our parents and grandparents experienced because we had learned how to avoid them. I'm increasingly less confident about that. If people forget the lessons of history we are doomed to repeat it.
I don't want to diminish the role of poor leadership, but I wonder how much of the outcome is a product of Brexit fatigue. The Tories had a much simpler line on Brexit and I guess many people may have thought that this was the only way to end the uncertainty. That may be illusory, but it seems to be the perception.
I couldn't help noticing that the abbreviation for the Conservative Party on the BBC is "CON".
Attachment 1208593
I don't believe it.
We have elected a right wing, lying, racist, sociopath...Ring any bells?
Gutted!
How can you be surprised?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
-Where was Jeremy Corbyn during the 2016 Referendum Campaign, giving leadership to a clearly stated position, leave or remain? He was almost invisible, too embarrassed to point out that other than the Worker's Rights contained in the Social Chapter of the Single Market Act, he has campaigned against the UK's membership of the EU for most of his political life.
-When Jeremy Corbyn and his Cabinet said they would honour the result of the Referendum, did this not make Labour a Leave party? What other position could it take?
-And Labour en masse voted for the two key Acts of Parliament that enable the UK to leave the EU.
-But when Theresa May almost lost the election in 2017 Labour smelled the blood of a victim, and devised their 'six tests' on Brexit they knew Theresa May could not meet, so this Leave party in Parliament voted at every opportunity not to leave the EU.
-When Labour offered online membership at £3 a pop, over 500,000 members appeared from social media, without any vetting. How many of these people have the slightest idea what Labour stands for, what its traditions are, and how many joined in the same way they might join an online streaming service -and how many joined just to make themselves a nuisance?
-Jeremy Corbyn is not anti-Semitic, but because he doesn't believe there are so many in his party, he was not energized to fight it when it emerged to be a real problem. His leadership on the issue was pathetic, weak, all over the place. Compare Corbyn on the anti-semites -with Kinnock booting out Militant after 1983.
-Again and again, the people were confused. The Leave party that Labour was by 2019 had been transformed itself into a Leave/Remain party as if the glaring contradiction could not be seen. The 'internal logic' of a leader remaining neutral was lost on the general public. Corbyn came across again as a weak leader, lacking in clear positions on crucial issues like Brexit, utterly incapable of sustaining internal party criticism and maintaining a full throttle drive toward the proverbial brick wall.
He failed his party, he failed his country.
It was never about policy, of course people want more money spent on the NHS and Education. Do most people want something done to tackle rough sleepers, universal credit and poverty? Of course we do. On a range of social and economic issues, this election went begging for an alternative that Labour could not convince the people they had, so the people voted for the very party that has deprived them of what they wanted, but they voted for a simple slogan they believe in, rather than an opportunity to march into a foggy tunnel.
Of course I expect Boris Johnson to sign anything the EU puts in front of him, of course Brexit as it evolves next year will not be what the Nationalists want, but who now is going to stop Boris Johnson? And how will Labour re-invent itself as a party that people want to vote for, that has credible people at the top, and credible policies? And how long will it take? For every day Johnson, the first immigrant to become Prime Minister, is in office, the damages escalate, for all but his rich friends.
Labour either needs root and branch reform, or the UK needs a new left of centre party. We cannot go on like this.
After nine years of austerity, we've voted for selfishness and xenophobia.
Surprised?...YEAH, kinda, but no, not really!
I know you are flattened by the result, but are you seriously unwilling to engage in self-examination even after a disaster of this scale? If the majority of Labour members are going to circle the wagons and direct the blame everywhere else than the party then I'm afraid you are likely to be in the same position in 5 years time. What does it say about your party than the only election wins in the past 40 years came under a leader you regard as anathema?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
One question I'm pondering is whether Boris Johnson is really a hard-right nationalist or whether he's just an opportunist who does whatever he thinks will advance his political interests. His pre-Brexit history didn't seem to suggest he was particularly right-wing and he did win two terms as mayor of London. The Brexit deal he agreed with the EU also suggests he may be more of a pragmatist than his recent rhetoric would suggest. I guess we'll find out over the coming period.
Perhaps you should be Stavros. In the Brexit thread less than 3 months ago you predicted confidently that Boris Johnson's days were numbered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros