Jerusalem, the Golden City

If you take the old bus route from Jericho to Jerusalem, the one that takes nearly an hour as it winds its way through the parched hills, you reach a vantage point from which the city lies before you across the valley; the walls of the Citadel extend and enclose a mass of humanity and spires, and there in the corner is perhaps the most famous golden dome in religious architecture. It is wondrous sight, yet contains within its purview as many illusions as could be found in the gold rushes of California, Australia, and the bleak terrain of Alaska and Canada. In Canada they even had a golden staircase to match the illusion, as most of the time it was made of snow and ice, the gold being the prize to win if you could survive the trek up and across it and it being barely half-way to the gold fields.

The President made his decision, to do what no other President has done. He did it for that reason, because Obama would not do it, to prove he is 'different' from his predecessors, and even claims he did it because a 'bold move' is needed to move the peace process back into gear, proving that one doesn't need to know a damn thing about the Middle East, let alone Israelis and Palestinians, to know there is no gold in them there hills, but to pretend there might be because some tired-out hack has told him so, or maybe it was his jejune son-in-law.

Thomas Friedman writing in the New York Times has savaged the latest dud missile from the White House sent winging its way into the ether, pointing out how the man who claims to make deals, has so far not only failed to make one, but has actually, in Friedman's words 'given away' the opportunities he has had. Thus, instead of using the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital as leverage to get some real movement from Israel and the Palestinians, it does nothing of the sort-

in either case, Trump could then have boasted to Israelis and Palestinians that he got them each something that Barack Obama never did — something that advanced the peace process and United States credibility and did not embarrass our Arab allies. But Trump is a chump. And he is a chump because he is ignorant and thinks the world started the day he was elected, and so he is easily gamed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/o...ol-left-region

One can only hope that as a result of this decision, death does not cast its shadow on the walls of the Old City, where we once bought plums from a street trader that tasted like they were grown in the Garden of Eden. Or in the modern city, where, turning right out of Jaffa Gate, there used to be a Kosher burger joint called McDavid, because if you can't laugh in this part of the world, its grim predictions may swallow you whole, but where the glorious food -Arab, Jewish, Armenian, Greek- survives the hollow calls to prayer by those who scheme as they sing.

Keep Yer Hands Off My Bus-route!

Nice post, Stavros, but I'm googling to see if buses really do run from in front of Jericho's house, that would seem odd.
Back when I was in High School, I met a girl who went to Israel, and the first thing she did was buy a big chunk of hashish, because that was the thing back then. She said she never touched it, life was so electric and exciting there, she didn't need it.
Let's make it official, If Trump does it, it's moronic, it's one of the laws of physics.

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

Back when I was in High School, I met a girl who went to Israel, and the first thing she did was buy a big chunk of hashish, because that was the thing back then..

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Your high school friend was not so different from two people I once knew -neither of them Jewish- who went to Israel in the 1970s for the 'Kibbutz experience' which involved some housework, some farm work, and rather a lot of hashish and sex, which was the main reason for them going. But what it does is neatly expose the radical distinction between what the Zionists who re-invented Israel in 1948 thought they were doing and what it has since become (Michael Walzer deals with this in The Paradox of Liberation).

For a core idea that Zionists promoted in their literature from the 1880s to 1948 was the 'revitalization' of the land as the basis of a new Jewish state. Out of that came the plans for agriculture, collective or otherwise, some of them derived from reforms taking place in what is now the Ukraine where most of the first settlers originated from, but even by the 1970s the Kibbutz as a building block of a new Jewish state had begun to pall, probably because farming is hard work if you do it all day, and the orientation of Israel's economy moved away from the land to the city, from agriculture to technology and business. Indeed, the settlements in the illegally occupied Palestinian territories and the wall represent a degree of environmental destruction that I like to think would have appalled the early settlers who treasured the land, whereas since 1967 Israel has a developed a love affair with concrete only China has been able to match and outdo in recent years.

The distinction is also important because Jerusalem represents the actual and the symbolic divisions that exist, not just between Israel and the Arabs, but within Israel itself. The religious Jews who were in a minority in 1948 have been revived through immigration and population growth, but have also become alienated from the secular Jews who drive on the Sabbath, smoke dope and hang out on the beach, regarding them as godless atheists, while they make fantastic claims for the 'land of Israel' which they claim has biblical authority when it does not, having extracted privileges from minority governments whose priority was to remain in power. This division has led Jerusalem to become, not a political football so much as a political bat -baseball or cricket, you choose- with which to whack people over the head in the name of religion, presenting a problem that cannot be solved unless one of the three major religions attempts to expel the other two from the place, which is the treasured dream of a few Jewish and Muslim fanatics.

Two Israelis, Yitzhak Rabin and Ariel Sharon expose the fault-lines. Both had military careers and a gruesome record when it comes to crimes against Palestinian Arabs, but while one reached the pragmatic conclusion there was no longer a justification for the violence that had sustained Israel since 1948, the other believed in little else. That Rabin was murdered by fanatics is only part of the story, as his radical departure from decades of Israeli policy to make peace with the Palestinians was opposed by Sharon as it was and still is by Netanyahu, who cannot accept the reality that peace can only come through some degree of territorial withdrawal because Likud has a concept of the 'land of Israel' that is anchored in religious fantasy rather than political reality, or attempts to make that political project a reality but can only do so through violence.

So when the US abandons 70 years of stasis on Jerusalem, it may underline how close the two countries have been since 1967, but it does not even attempt to bridge the gap between Israel and the Palestinians, and also fails to recognise divisions within Israel and may even make them worse. That the US does not seem to know or to care that Jordan retains the legal jurisdiction over the 'Temple Mount', 'Haram es-Sharif' or 'Ummayad Palaces' (take your pick of labels) exposes the weakness of its position, and the view that the US is isolating itself by appearing to condone Israel's illegal occupation of East Jerusalem.

But it also presents a worrying suggestion that the US discussed the move and received approval from Saudi Arabia, in spite of what the media says, partly because the US, Israel and Saudi Arabia see Iran as currently the key issue, because the Saudis have treated the Jordanian based Hashemites with contempt ever since they forced them out of Mecca in 1925, because they don't care about the Palestinians, and perhaps because Crown Prince Mohammed has been talking with mates in the Gulf and Jared Kushner about some 'new deal' in the region.

What remains extraordinary is the way in which we are told the US decision was a 'campaign promise' and that it plays to the interests of Evangelical Christians. This latter group take the view that it is a mistake to be a Jew, and that the only hope Jews have of surviving Armageddon is in recognising that Jesus was and remains the only Messiah, and converting to their cause. These Christians are not the same as those who have been saying prayers in Jerusalem for over a thousand years, yet they, be they Greek or Armenian, Coptic, Catholic or Assyrian have barely been mentioned in the decision, as if they were an irrelevance.

But what it does is suggest that far from recognising Jerusalem as Israel's capital, the Israelis and the Palestinians should declare their intention to move their political centre somewhere else, leaving Jerusalem to be a place of pilgrimage rather than a battlefield. Instead of being a city of opposition and division, of confrontation and war, it should be a meeting place where people of different faiths reconcile their differences in order to practice their faith without fear.

That would be the bold move, but a move the blinkered fools currently in charge of policy do not wish to see.

Yeah, you turn on FOX NEWS now, and we're all of a sudden supposed to be cozy with Israel, Russia, and Saudi Arabia, I don't get it. They just had some sort of coup in Saudi Arabia where many of the heirs to the throne "disappeared" and Jared Kushner was seen "in the area"
It seems whenever Trump is at his moronic worst, he gets rewarded with billions of dollars.
Even Nancy Pelosi picks up on stock tips and inside information from her job, Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Outside of maybe Jimmy Carter, all those politicians are corrupt.
I'm sure it's the same everywhere.
If I had money I'd make Michael Jackson look normal.

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

If I had money I'd make Michael Jackson look normal.

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I sat here wondering why someone would spend money on corrective surgery for a dead pop star for way too long.

Today's events in Jerusalem mark another chapter in the history of violence and hypocrisy that do not just undermine any religious claim to the City, but for the time being appears to relegate religion to being the spade of bad politics, digging a hole in the ground that yearns to be filled, like a grave. If that is quite an achievement for any religion, never mind so religious a city as Jerusalem, consider the fact that the man chosen by the USA to give the address at the opening of the US Embassy on illegally occupied land, is Robert Jeffress from Texas, a 'spiritual advisor' to the atheist in the White House -

during a 2010 lecture, Jeffress claimed, "God sends good people to Hell. Not only do religions like Mormonism, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism--not only do they lead people away from from God, they lead people to an eternity of separation from God in Hell."
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...assy-1.6078561

Jeffress did not have the courage of the faith as he understand it, to stand in front of an audience of Jews and tell them they can either accept Jesus as their saviour or spend an eternity in hell; just as Netanyahi and Naftali Bennett are too cowardly to proclaim the opening of the Embassy on Palestinian territory as the next step to the annexation of the West Bank, and the expulsion of the Christian presence throughout their version of 'Eretz Israel', which is their long-term ambition.

Who do these nauseating hypocrites represent but themselves? And will Netanyahu and the lunatics around him at their party be dancing the dance of death on the grave of Yitzhak Rabin and the 'peace process' they worked so hard to destroy, while recruiting their useful idiot from the White House to move to the next phase?

Spare a thought for humble people of faith who view religion as a private matter, a source of spiritual nourishment, and view the invasion of dirty politics in their city an offence to the very nature of devotion the city demands.

mmmm, Maybe none should have Jerusalem as there capital, let alone there seat of Governments .\
Shouldn't it be just a holy city, anyway? ,with no secular nothing, just a city of churches , and
I don't know, i'm just a godless agnostic, what do I know.......maybe a fish market or two

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Originally Posted by nitron

mmmm, Maybe none should have Jerusalem as there capital, let alone there seat of Governments .\
Shouldn't it be just a holy city, anyway? ,with no secular nothing, just a city of churches , and
I don't know, i'm just a godless agnostic, what do I know.......maybe a fish market or two

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I have said before the politics should be taken out of Jerusalem, not used to stuff it full of hypocrites.

In an an earlier post I said Robert Jeffress gave the opening address which should have been prayer, while I now know that the closing prayer or Benediction was given by another 'Christian' of Hate John Hagee who, like Jeffress was too much of a spineless coward to stand in front of an audience of Jews and repeat what he once said before-

"God says in Jeremiah 16: 'Behold, I will bring them the Jewish people again unto their land that I gave to their fathers. ... Behold, I will send for many fishers, and after will I send for many hunters,'" Hagee said, according to a transcript of his sermon. "'And they the hunters shall hunt them.' That would be the Jews. ... Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone who comes with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter."
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/13/p...lem/index.html

Maybe it is not surprising that the President of the USA asked two men choked with venom and hate to represent his country, what else does the USA have to offer the people of the Middle East? And why not drag Jerusalem into the gutter and piss all over it with phoney pastors who long ago replaced the promise of a serene paradise with the fires of hell as their preferred domain? To be disruptive in the hope that it will force change, where in the Middle East it just deepens the chasm between peace and war.

How many threads as this guy started up on this website all obsessing over one individual?

Attachment 1075037


You're gunna give yourself a fucking hernia!

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Originally Posted by peejaye

How many threads as this guy started up on this website all obsessing over one individual?
You're gunna give yourself a fucking hernia!

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Peejaye, it is not about the President, it is about Jerusalem. This President hasn't got a clue and is merely a useful idiot for some very, very dangerous people.
More importantly, what is your view of the USA's decision, and what proposals do you have to re-start the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians, with specific reference to Jerusalem?

Here is my proposal:

a) As an important religious city for Jews, Christians and Muslims, Jerusalem, as a matter of principle, should have the politics taken out, and thus not be the 'capital city' of either the state of Israel or Palestine.

b) to achieve this, the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem should be re-drawn to exclude the Knesset, the Prime Minister's Office and other Israeli government buildings from the City of Jerusalem. This would allow current buildings used by the Israeli government to remain in Israel, but not Jerusalem. The district in which they are at the moment can become part of a civic district within Israel.

c) the Goverment of Palestine can be in Ramallah, or any other city under the jurisdiction of Palestine.

d) the aim of this change is to create in Jerusalem a place of inter-faith dialogue where people of all faith and none can congregate without fear to engage in religious worship and social interaction to the benefit of all.

e) because Israel has repeatedly re-drawn the boundaries of Jerusalem to include illegal settlements, these settlements would not be part of the City of Jerusalem but be located in Palestine. In accordance with an agreement to be negotiated between Israel and Palestine, a review of settlements would take place with a view to transferring settlers from Palestine to Israel as part of a recognition of Palestinian sovereignty.

This is at least a start in the right direction -what do you think, and what are your alternative proposals?

Stavros; This is a website for Trans-girl admirers, I KNOW there's a section for Politics but don't you sometimes feel you're at a football match but spend the whole 90 minutes of it stood downstairs by the burger van?

I'll be honest, although I take a mild interest in Politics outside the UK I wouldn't know where to start with that lot?
It didn't seem the best idea to me to relocate the Embassy to Jerusalem! Seemed inevitable what as happened :banghead

I neglected two important aspects of potential reform to take the politics out of Jerusalem and facilitate a new chapter in the peace process. These would mean (to carry on the list in the previous post)-

f) the City of Jerusalem to be run by a council elected by residents of the city, who would vote as Israelis and Palestinians in General Elections on Israel and Palestine. It may be necessary to create a non-confrontational council to avoid either an Israeli or Palestinian dominated council making decisions that favour one community over the other, for example on housing and the water supply.

g) under the agreement first made in 1924 and renewed on a regular basis and, for example, in the Peace Treaty between Israel and Jordan of 1994, the Hashemite Kingdom is Custodian of the Christian and Muslim holy places in Jerusalem. I am not sure if this is justifiable in the long term. It was hugely important for the late King Hussein because it was the last link the Hashemites had with Islam's holy places, a link extending back to the family of Muhammad to whom Hashemites claim to be related. It was also important because Jordan extended its rule across the West Bank in 1948 where Hussein's grandfather Abdullah was murdered in 1951. When Jordan lost the West Bank in 1967 the King summoned the commanding officer in charge and beat him up.
I think that if there was a peace process that established Jerusalem as an inter-faith city one would have to trust the city Council to administer the holy places with equal respect to Jews, Muslims and Christians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashem...lem_holy_sites