Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
The traditional presumption in the law—from the advent of the Hebrew Bible through the creation of Roman law, English common law, and American law—has been that if you could spare human life, it was incumbent upon you to do so.
With “Stand Your Ground” (aka “Shoot First”) laws, the National Rifle Association (NRA) and its partners in the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) have turned 3,000 years of jurisprudence on its head. Now you can provoke a fight, and if losing that fight, kill the person you attacked.
The NRA’s laws represent a dangerous and unprecedented escalation in the use of force in the public space, allowing individuals to kill when they merely fear “great bodily harm” (i.e., a fistfight, shoving match, etc.). The concept of responding with proportional force has been obliterated. Additionally, “Stand Your Ground” laws remove the duty to retreat from a conflict in public, allowing individuals to shoot and kill even when they could otherwise walk away safely from an altercation.
Please sign this petition calling on your state legislators to oppose “Stand Your Ground” laws.
http://csgv.org/action/stand-up-to-stand-your-ground/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...f=black-voices
"Stand Up to 'Stand Your Ground'" PSA - YouTube
Re: Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
People are showing their ignorance of laws by citing the Trayvon Martin case for repealing Stand Your Ground laws. The Trayvon Martin case has nothing to do with those laws.
Re: Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/153354467
The above is a transcript of the Judge's instructions to the jury in the Zimmerman case. Note on page ten the Judge aprises the jury of Forida's stand your ground law and how it applies to their deliberations.
Re: Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/153354467
The above is a transcript of the Judge's instructions to the jury in the Zimmerman case. Note on page ten the Judge aprises the jury of Forida's stand your ground law and how it applies to their deliberations.
How can you retreat if somebody is on top of punching you? The case is a poor example to support repealing SYG laws (i.e., no duty to retreat). Even though Zimmerman might of been following Martin, Zimmerman wasn't doing anything illegal by possibly following Martin. And, the action of following doesn't give the right of Martin to attack Zimmerman unless Zimmerman initiates the violence first.
Re: Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
You said,
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The Trayvon Martin case has nothing to do with those laws.
The Judge, however, thought it was sufficiently relevant to mention in his instructions to the jury. I see you're retreating already. Now your claim is,
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The case is a poor example to support repealing SYG laws
. :D
Re: Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
You said, The Judge, however, thought it was sufficiently relevant to mention in his instructions to the jury. I see you're retreating already. Now your claim is, . :D
Nope, I am not retreating. Even if the duty of retreat wasn't replaced in Florida, Zimmerman would still be found not guilty under the old law. The case has nothing to do with the duty of retreating or not. You can't retreat if somebody throws a knockdown punch and jumps on top of you to continue violence against you.
Re: Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
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Nope, I am not retreating.
Ah, but you already have. :D You no longer make the extreme claim that the Zimmerman case has "nothing to do" with SYG laws.
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You can't retreat if somebody throws a knockdown punch and jumps on top of you to continue violence against you.
Nope, but Zimmerman could've retreated well in advance of that alleged circumstance. Had he retreated when the police operator asked him to, or had he retreated before it came to blows, Zimmerman wouldn't have suffered an owie and no one would have died. Self-defense in one thing. It's a right. Standing your ground just to see how far you can escalate a situation before it becomes violent is sheer inanity. Stand your ground is not a right, it's just a stupid piece of ALEC-designed boiler plate crap wrapped up in the parchment of Florida law.
Re: Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
Ah, but you already have. :D You no longer make the extreme claim that the Zimmerman case has "nothing to do" with SYG laws.
Nope, but Zimmerman could've retreated well in advance of that alleged circumstance. Had he retreated when the police operator asked him to, or had he retreated before it came to blows, Zimmerman wouldn't have suffered an owie and no one would have died. Self-defense in one thing. It's a right. Standing your ground just to see how far you can escalate a situation before it becomes violent is sheer inanity. Stand your ground is not a right, it's just a stupid piece of ALEC-designed boiler plate crap wrapped up in the parchment of Florida law.
I am sticking to my original claim. Those people want to repeal the law and replace it with the old law. They are citing the Trayvon Martin case as support to repeal the law. SYG and other self defense laws don't begin until violence or a forcible felony has began. Martin initiated the violence by punching Zimmerman. Martin didn't give the opportunity for Zimmerman to retreat by striking him and getting on top of him to continue an assault. Martin became the aggressor by his own actions. It might be messed up but it happened.
Re: Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
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I am sticking to my original claim.
You mean you're flip-flopping. Okay, then why did the Judge instruct the jury to consider the application of Florida's SYG law? (See page 10 of the Judge's instructions to the jury, http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/153354467). The fact alone that the Judge instructed the jury on SYG makes it relevant to the case; it was considered by the jury in their deliberations.
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Those people want to repeal the law and replace it with the old law. They are citing the Trayvon Martin case...
Along with many other cases and armed with many good arguments not dependent on specific cases.
require that confrontations be avoided before they become violent, when possible. That's one reason to get rid of them. (SYG is NOT a self-defense law. It's be a right-to-be-an-asshole law).
Re: Stand Up to "Stand Your Ground"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
Had he retreated when the police operator asked him to, or had he retreated before it came to blows
isn't that what happened? he was following martin, then when he was told he didn't have to, he said "okay" and started going back to his car and supposedly that's when he ran into martin.
