Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in hite suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seanchai
You made a lot of sense until this last paragraph. I don't think and have never stated that Zimmerman went out with intent and I agree with your summing up, up until the point of when he approached his "suspect". I don't think there has been any evidence of Treyvon attacking Zimmerman. Zimmerman created the situation, brought the gun and chose to pull the trigger. Shouldn't it at the least be manslaughter? If he is aquitted, then if I was American I'd feel like demonstrating in public about a misjustice.
Back in 1982, a friend of mine and I parked 6 blocks over from our parent’s house to smoke some weed he had at 1:30 in the morning; a habit I quit in my Junior year in high school because of the trouble it brought on me. I got really really nervous, because I saw people looking out their windows wondering why we were sitting in front of their houses. I said, “Fernando, let’s go somewhere else. People are looking at us and the cops are going to show up.” He said, “Fuck em I don’t care. We have the right to sit here if we want to.” I said, “No we don’t! We’re sitting out here in the middle of the night, smoking weed in front of these people’s houses and they’re all watching us. This doesn’t look right.”, and he shrugged it off like it was nothing. Not even 10 minutes later, a rogue figure come walking through the lawns … he was white, and drew a large caliber weapon on us from across his back and asked “What are you doing here?” I threw my hands up and said, “I tried to tell his dumbass this doesn’t look right and he wouldn’t listen to me.” He said, “You’re god-damned right it doesn’t look right, and I’m tired of having my cars broke into when I’m asleep.” I said, “Fernando, get the fuck out of here” and we returned back to my house. I bitched him out in my driveway and told him to never put me in that situation again.
The following day, I went by myself to that man’s home, knocked on his door, and apologized to him and his family for spooking him and his neighbor’s for acting suspiciously. What he also told me is that he had the cops not far behind us after we left, but they arrived when we were gone. Lesson learned. Now imagine if we acted like Treyvon and jumped him. We have gotten shot. For nothing, and no court would have defended us.
I've been a member of your site for many years now, and I wish you'd cut me a break. This is not Ireland. There is a huge crime epidemic going on in our country and our president is not helping.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
InHouston, the difference IMO between your situation and the Martin murder is that Trayvon was at his father's condo within this gated community watching the NBA playoffs. Trayvon left his father's condo heading towards 7-11 for candy and iced tea. He wasn't high. He wasn't menacing anyone by loitering outside their home. He was WALKING in the rain, talking to his GF on the phone.
If you want to watch the kid to see what he does, fine. I've done that before. But if that kid runs because you've been following him for three blocks in your SUV and suddenly you get out of your ride to pursue him on foot, whatever happens next is the blame of the person who has the gun.
I don't believe George Zimmerman's life at any point was in real danger and if Zimmerman didn't have his gun, I believe he would have been smacked a few times by Trayvon, the fight would have been over soon after and Travyon would have left Zimmerman on the ground feeling like a fool.
Zimmerman's legal counsel and his family want people to believe that if Zimmerman and Trayvon had fought and George didn't pull out his gun, Trayvon either would have killed him WITH HIS BARE HANDS(really hard to do btw)or beaten Zimmerman so bad he'd be a drooling paraplegic.
Trayvon's GF who was on the phone with him until the call went dead said it sounded like someone had shoved Travyon because his ear piece fell out.
Some of you are really giving Zimmerman more than the benefit of the doubt. IMO, you're rooting for him. WHy?? I know not.
And for the record, national crime stats have FALLEN since Obama entered office. You guys spew so many right wing, agenda driven, misinformed talking points you wouldn't recognize the truth if it fucked you rawdog in the ass.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
giovanni_hotel
Some of you are really giving Zimmerman more than the benefit of the doubt. IMO, you're rooting for him. WHy?? I know not.
THIS!
BTW - the reason I originally posted the piece was because at the time, no arrest had been made and mainstream media had yet to pick it up. I'm not rooting for anyone other than the families rights to have this investigated properly.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
There was no arrest because no crime had been committed. You’ll see this in the end.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InHouston
There was no arrest because no crime had been committed. You’ll see this in the end.
Then if that is the case maybe this situation will make people look at a law that is clearly out of control.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InHouston
There was no arrest because no crime had been committed. You’ll see this in the end.
Anytime you shoot an unarmed teen that you were following, that's called a homicide which is a crime.
If the man in your story shot you and your friend for cussing him out, let's pretend, that too would be a crime.
Having a gun doesn't automatically give a civilian police authority.
If a law allows anyone to claim 'self-defense' as a cause for justifiable homicide with no proof or evidence except the shooter's word, IMO that's a law that needs to be struck down.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
WHY do I keep clicking on this thread? I already know the outcome...
Re: ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling
BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT!
did I say BULLSHIT!
the charge is Criminally Negligent Homicide
you do not have to intend to kill someone to be negligent.
CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE
The failure to use reasonable care to avoid consequences that threaten or harm the safety of the public and that are the foreseeable outcome of acting in a particular manner.
Criminal negligence is a statutory offense that arises primarily in situations involving the death of an innocent party as a result of the operation of a motor vehicle by a person who is under the influence of Drugs and Narcotics or alcohol. Most statutes define such conduct as criminally negligent Homicide. Unlike the tort of Negligence, in which the party who acted wrongfully is liable for damages to the injured party, a person who is convicted of criminal negligence is subject to a fine, imprisonment, or both, because of the status of the conduct as a crime.
West's Encyclopedia of American
ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite
CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE
For you to find the defendant guilty of this offense, the state must have proven beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of the following essential elements:1
(1) that the defendant's conduct resulted in the death of the alleged
victim;
(2) that the defendant acted with criminal negligence.
“Criminal negligence” means that a person acts with criminal negligence when the person ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the alleged victim will be killed. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the accused person’s standpoint.2
The requirement of criminal negligence is also established if it is shown that the defendant acted intentionally, knowingly or recklessly.3
"Intentionally" means that a person acts intentionally when it is the person's conscious objective or desire to cause the death of the alleged victim.4
"Knowingly" means that a person acts with an awareness that [his] [her]
conduct is reasonably certain to cause the death of the alleged victim.5
“Recklessly” means that a person acts recklessly when the person is aware of, but consciously disregards, a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the alleged victim will be killed. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the accused person’s standpoint.6
Criminally Negligent Homicide
(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.
What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.
Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:
-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator
-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program
-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement
Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.
He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.
In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,
or the firing of the gun.
Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.
If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...
then he's guilty under the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InHouston
None. I have a concealed handgun license myself, and because I carry at all times, I don’t respond to disrespect from anyone. Nor do I confront suspicious people during neighborhood watch. To do so is stupid and dangerous for both parties, because it introduces a weapon into the situation just like what happened to Zimmerman. And another reason I don’t confront or respond to people is because citizens in states like Texas and Florida have more rights to use deadly force than the police do. The police know it, and criminals know it too. It’s a monumental responsibility, one that I’ve contemplated for years and came to terms on the best manner in which to conduct myself in a composed manner to avoid unfortunate outcomes.
You can believe all the propaganda you like, but I’ve evaluated what happened to Zimmerman thoroughly. He meant well, and was trying to help the police but involved himself in a foot pursuit he’s not trained to handle, but had every right to do it. That doesn’t mean it was the smartest thing to do. Zimmerman’s boyish demeanor strikes me as naïve. He made two tactical mistakes in conducting neighborhood watch. First, he shouldn’t have revealed that he was watching someone. That is error #1. That will spook them and send them off running every time. Two, he shouldn’t have pursued Treyvon. That is just dumb dumb dumb. You’re not in uniform, and you’re just going to end up in an altercation with someone when you do that. Let uniformed police handle that situation. When I perform neighborhood watch, I’m armed with .45 pistol, 69 rounds of ammunition, a Taser, and handcuffs, and a police scanner for situational awareness of what’s going on around me. That is not to hunt and pursue people in my neighborhood. That is to protect me when I’m standing in my driveway all by lonesome at 3:00 am. My primary weapon is my cell phone with a direct number to police dispatch. When I see something that doesn’t look right, I retreat back into the house and call the dispatcher.
Just a few weeks ago at 2:30 in the morning a rogue car ran up my neighbor’s driveway and knocked over her trash can. Then pulled into the street and sat there with their lights blacked out for 20 minutes. It was a car with 4 black males in it. I called the Constables and told them what I saw. The dispatcher told me to remain in the house because they could be armed, and I did just that and used my security cameras to keep an eye on them until the police arrived, and they swarmed in on them like hornets; white and black cops included, and started yanking these guys out and throwing them into the back of their squad cars. Turns out, they were 4 underage black guys like Treyvon who were not a threat to anyone. They took one’s mother’s car without permission and were out riding around drinking and smoking weed, and ran over the curb and broke down in front of my house. They brought in additional squad cars and returned them to their parents and towed the mom’s car off and said over the scanner “The mom is very angry right now, and has been sitting up wondering where her son and her car is.” And that was it. Now imagine if I did like Zimmerman, walked down my driveway and confronted them? I would have had to deal with 4 young men pissed off, defensive, apprehensive, and could have gotten jumped and had to shoot my way out of getting my ass stomped in the street. I played it smart and stayed out of it.
Although Zimmerman has been charged with 2nd degree murder, the court and jury has to prove first and foremost of “intent” to commit murder. That’s not what he did. He ran point for the police trying to help them, and started getting his ass kicked which Treyvon had every right to do. But, no matter the circumstances, that put Zimmerman into a situation where he had to defend himself to save his life or avoid bodily harm. Treyvon should have never started beating on him. If Treyvon used his head, it was clear that Zimmerman wasn’t out to rob him. They’re both at fault. Therefore, it’s a wash. It’s a mutual-combat scenario they both could have avoided, and Zimmerman ended up on his back getting beat up. Did Zimmerman start it? Yes. Did Treyvon exasperate the situation? Yes he did.
Therefore, Zimmerman will be acquitted. And the riots will ensue afterwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
natina
ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite
Criminally Negligent Homicide
(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.
What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.
Instead they will set out to prove that -- by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:
-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator
-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program
-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement
Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.
He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.
In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,
or the firing of the gun.
Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.
If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...
then he's guilty under the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
natina
George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says
Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Sanford, Fla., neighborhood watch volunteer who shot the unarmed 17-year-old Martin to death last month, was fired from a job securing illegal house parties for “being too aggressive,” according to the New York Daily News, which quoted a former colleague of Zimmerman’s. According to the co-worker, Zimmerman worked for two agencies that provided security for house parties from 2001 to 2005.
“Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker, who the newspaper didn't name. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When dude snapped, he snapped.” The Daily News said Zimmerman earned $50 to $100 a night for the parties.
He was fired for being too aggressive with patrons.
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”
The new portrayal of Zimmerman comes as distinctly different images of both Martin and Zimmerman are being floated by people on both sides of the Martin killing. Zimmerman told police he shot Martin Feb. 26 in self defense after being jumped from behind. He has not been charged.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1392591.html
http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2012/...xauto-5674.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by
natina
he accused his ex fiance of being the aggressor
How ironic is this picture..
But people are not playing and turned out by the hundreds in A Million Hoodies March in New York City today to protest the killing of Treyvon Martin. Treyvon’s parents attended the March and expressed their apprection for the turnout. Meanwhile when it comes to George Zimmerman, the plot thickens apparently he has quite the history of domestic violence in one incident, he accused his ex fiance of being the aggressor *side eye*
How ironic is this picture..
But people are not playing and turned out by the hundreds in A Million Hoodies March in New York City today to protest the killing of Treyvon Martin. Treyvon’s parents attended the March and expressed their apprection for the turnout. Meanwhile when it comes to George Zimmerman, the plot thickens apparently he has quite the history of domestic violence in one incident, he accused his ex fiance of being the aggressor *side eye*
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...on-march-1.jpg
Treyvon’s parents at the March
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...on-march-3.jpg
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...on-march-9.jpg
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...on-march-7.jpg
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...n-march-13.jpg
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...yvon-march.jpg
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...n-march-12.jpg
Beautiful thing to see people are all races united.
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...n-march-10.jpg
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...n-march-11.jpg
Heartbreaking pictures of children protesting
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...on-march-8.jpg
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/i-am-treyvon.jpg
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...on-march-4.jpg
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/...on-march-6.jpg
Howard University School of Law Representing..
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/howard-law-1.jpg
http://bymystique.com/pictures/2012/03/howard-law-2.jpg
More in Zimmerman’s domestic violence history
The court records concern a conflict between Zimmerman and his ex-fiancée, who filed a petition accusing Zimmerman of pushing her during an argument at her Orlando home in August 2005.
The woman reported Zimmerman had arrived at her home Aug. 8 and asked to talk. Later, when she asked him to leave, she said, he insisted on staying and demanded documents she had.
The woman said she offered to drop the papers off the following day, but Zimmerman became upset, took her cellphone and shoved her. A fight ensued, she said, and her dog bit Zimmerman’s cheek.
Zimmerman filed his own petition the day after his ex-fiancée’s, in which he claimed that she had been the aggressor in the fight. He said she called him Aug. 8 and invited him to spend the night.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,5472535.story
Quote:
Originally Posted by
natina
According to the Miami Herald, Zuazo said that three years earlier, Zimmerman attacked her while the two were driving to a counseling session. Zuazo said she popped her gum in his face and he repeatedly smacked her in the face. In January 2002, she added, Zimmerman became enraged that she had come home late. They wrestled and he threw her on the bed, smacking her, according to the newspaper.
In September 2003, Zimmerman called police and reported that another motorist spat on him, according to reports, Zimmerman followed the man in his car until the police arrived. Daniel Osmun, the other driver, told police that Zimmerman was tailgating and that he spit his gum out the window "out of frustration."
Osum said that Zimmerman then pulled alongside of him, and the two argued. In a police report of the incident, Osum said “at one point, he thought Mr. Zimmerman was going to attack him." No charges were filed against either man.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1392591.html
Zimmerman Made Disparaging Remarks About Mexican
Zimmerman Made Disparaging Remarks About Mexican
s on MySpace Page
A MySpace page has surfaced that shows Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman made disparaging remarks about Mexicans and boasted about escaping from legal problems.
While the page is dated from 2005 and has not been used for some time, lawyers on both sides say the social media page could become a factor in the case against Zimmerman, who is accused of shooting the unarmed African-American teenager in Sanford, Florida, on February 26.
The page, titled, "only to be a king again," shows Zimmerman sounding off against Mexicans and celebrating his evasion of charges after a fight with a law enforcement officer.
In a possible reference to an alleged 2005 domestic violence incident, Zimmerman also uses a disparaging slang word for prostitute against his former girlfriend. Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for Trayvon Martin’s family, says the page shows Zimmerman has a history of racial profiling.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
giovanni_hotel
Anytime you shoot an unarmed teen that you were following, that's called a homicide which is a crime.
If the man in your story shot you and your friend for cussing him out, let's pretend, that too would be a crime.
Having a gun doesn't automatically give a civilian police authority.
If a law allows anyone to claim 'self-defense' as a cause for justifiable homicide with no proof or evidence except the shooter's word, IMO that's a law that needs to be struck down.
There has to be "intent" to commit murder. That's not what his intention was. He was assisting the police in a foot-pursuit. Unfortunately, Treyvon jumped him and started beating him up, and Zimmerman shot his way out of it. Even Treyvon's mother initially admitted this was an unfortunate accident, and that's what it was.
And I'm not rooting for Zimmerman. Treyvon and Zimmerman both over-reacted and spooked each other. Unfortunately, Treyvon lost.
