Martin, thank you very much for the article by Vivek Nagrani, it has given depth to my somewhat superficial if partially accurate observation.
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Martin, thank you very much for the article by Vivek Nagrani, it has given depth to my somewhat superficial if partially accurate observation.
WTF. Why would Farage meet with Assange?
http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...founder-is?amp
They share the same agenda: the dissolution of the European Union and a globalized economy where states form trading blocs that offer its members privileges outsiders cannot have. The political anarchism of Assange meets the economic anarchism of Farage who wants the UK to 'stand alone' and takes its chances as a competitive state in a world without the UN or any regulative body, the same view now taken in Washington DC, and in Moscow, and by Marine Le Pen in France.Quote:
Originally Posted by flabbybody
Assange has placed Wikileaks in the service of of Russia -he broadcasts regularly for Russia Today from inside the Embassy (I believe this may be a violation of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic protocol) -and when last year the Republican candidate for the US Presidency appealed to the Russian government to intervene in the US elections and undermine Hillary Clinton's campaign, Wikileaks duly obliged; and just yesterday Wikileaks re-printed leaked emails from the campaign of Emmanuel Macron in France, and while the leaks may not have originated from a hacking operation in Russia, the Front National campaign has been part-financed with money from Russian banks with the full approval of Vladimir Putin.
Another visitor to Assange in London has been Pamela Anderson, anyone who thinks that is interesting can google it.
More- or less- on Farage and Assange-
Nigel Farage abruptly ended an interview with a German newspaper because the reporter asked him about his relationships with Russia and WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.
Mr Farage described interviewer Steffen Dobbert from Zeit Online as “a nutcase”, “mad” and “away with the fairies”, when Mr Dobbert suggested Ukip and Russia shared an agenda, asked why Mr Farage met with Mr Assange, and said after Brexit it might be harder for British people to travel to the European Union.
Eventually, on the advice of his press spokesman — who reportedly interrupted the interview several times — the eurosceptic MEP ended the conversation and asked Mr Dobbert to leave the room.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7744451.html
It is now being claimed that Farage met Assange several times and that on one occasion he passed Assange a 'thumb drive" containing data. Glenn Simpson, head of FusionGPS is said to have told one of the Congressional inquiries into the 'Russia scandal'-Quote:
Originally Posted by flabbybody
He added: “I have formed my own opinions... that there was a somewhat unacknowledged relationship between the Trump people and the Ukip people and that the path to WikiLeaks ran through that. And I still think that today."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8168506.html
Maybe Nigel will be invited to Washington to give evidence to the Mueller inquiry? In the meantime, Julian Assange has now been given Ecuadorian nationality but there is no sign of any movement on getting him out of the Embassy, although as the government has pointed out, Assange is free to leave whenever he wants to.
He cheats at golf, just like Nixon although the latter mostly 'adjusted' his scores...
Donald Trump "cheats like hell" at golf and routinely lies about his score, a professional who plays regularly with him has claimed.
Suzann Pettersen, who has known Mr Trump for over ten years, said that she laughs at the US president’s scores because they bear no relation to reality.
Pettersen, who is a former LPGA Tour winner and has often played with Mr Trump, said that he usually skips his final putt in case he misses it.
The Norwegian former world number two even hinted that Mr Trump pays his caddies to return balls he has hit towards the woods back onto the course.
More here-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018...ctice-partner/
And Celina Midelfart...
https://www.thecut.com/2016/05/meet-...lleged-ex.html
Says it all really. It's going to become a cliche at some point but the person who cheats at golf is the person you can't trust for anything. The thing is, everybody who plays golf is disappointed that they occasionally miss a four foot putt or hit a ball out of bounds or behind a tree. Golf cheats can't deal with the disappointment of not being as good as they wish they could be. It is in those where there's the greatest difference between how they see themselves and how they actually are that you see cheating.
Re the 'Nunes Memo' -if this is an FBI document containing classified information that the FBI want s to protect, does this mean that whoever releases it should be arrested and charged? I seem to recall the (alleged) distribution of classified emails led to 'Lock Her Up!' becaming a popular chant during the 2016 election campaign.
Or is it a case that officials of the USA must, must pledge their loyalty to the President, and that in future pledging to uphold the Constitution of the USA will be the second pledge they make after swearing undying loyalty to the President?
As for Rod Rosenstein, who apparently responded to the President's demand:
“Of course, we’re all on your team, Mr President,” Rosenstein replied, CNN quoted unnamed sources as saying.
Does this mean the Attorney General's office is more committed to protecting the President or the Law? And doesn't this mean Rosenstein can no longer be trusted to uphold the law? Guess its just a matter of time before Mueller is sacked.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e-donald-trump
Trump has been crucified from day 1 by the MSM, CNN hate him with a passion because he won’t dance to their tune, I wish he was Prime Minister of the UK.
Couldn't do a worse job than the First Class Full weight c**t we've got at present!Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodslave
QUOTE=Stavros- Guess its just a matter of time before Mueller is sacked....
In Jolly Olde England, Trump is a bounder, and sacks people.
In the Goddam USA, Trump is an asshole who fires people.
We've got this memo that will shock everyone, because that's how the White House wrote it.
Before we had Mueller, we were getting revelations everyday about Trump, we're limited now to government shutdowns, pornstar payoffs, and secret meetings with Russians flown over here Straight outta Putin's office. Even the hero of Bengazi Trey Gowdy announced he wasn't running for re-election after he read the memo.
The Republicans in the House and Senate and Supreme Court MUST see what's going on. I guess they're just holding onto something and gritting their teeth, like everyone else.
https://image.ibb.co/mkrqYm/0000000.jpg
My understanding is it’s not an FBI document but a memo of the Congressional Intelligence Committee containing cherry picked information lifted from FBI documents that were forwarded to the Committee by the FBI at the Committee’s request. Typically such memos (containing classified information) need to go through a declassification procedure before it can be released to the full Congress or the public. These are not typical times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
It now appears possible (likely?) that the White House was involved in the writing of this memo. As the memo questions the initial reasons for the Mueller investigation, White House involvement in the memo may constitute further obstruction. In my opinion, this is all a prelude to Trump firing Mueller.
Believe me, you do not want this enfant terrible running your country. But if you insist, please take him. PLEASE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodslave
The White House is now involved in nothing less than a coup to usurp the balance of powers originally conceived by the Founding Fathers. No president, not even Nixon, has undermined the authority of the Justice Department and endangered our National Security like Trump. And why? He has no vision for the Nation. He never gave a shit about the people who now constitute his base. He never wanted anything more than personal aggrandizement. This, in his heart, because he knows that he’s is one of life’s biggest losers.
Thanks Trish, I stand corrected on the precise nature of the document, but it does contain classified material, I think that is the point with the rest of your points accepted, but for the last. Someone so lacking in experience might be elected to a local council, but I doubt would get past any selection committee in either Labour or the Conservative Party. The United Kingdom Independence Party, so called might have been the route, but these days it is no longer a party, merely a coven in search of a sacrifice.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
If CNN does not cover him with pride, it is because the President, as with the candidate that preceded the office, is a blatant liar, and one who does not like being exposed as one. He has also expressed hatred of Americans with a careless lack of interest in the consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodslave
The closest we have to this oaf is the city trader who realised he could make more money as a member of the European Parliament he was elected to, who has pocketed over a million quid in wages, claimed every expense the EU has to offer, and in practical terms done sod all to make a difference to policies he claims the EU is responsible for. Two years on the Fisheries Committee and he turned up for two meetings. His marriage has broken down, his children are in expensive private education and he has to wait another 10 years before he gets his pension(s) though he will get a jolly of around £157,000 when he leaves the Parliament -
MEPs leaving Brussels after next month's election will receive a payoff of up to £157,000, in addition to other perks, as part of a "golden goodbye".
---All MEPs who step down or lose their seats are entitled to a "transitional allowance" of at least £39,000. The value of the payment increases with length of time in post, meaning the longest-serving MEPs could receive two years' salary after leaving. The allowance provides one month's salary for each year an MEP has been in parliament, with a minimum of six months and a maximum of 24.
The revelation follows a row last week over the second pensions to which many members of the European parliament are entitled, in addition to their statutory pension. The longest-serving MEPs accrue statutory pensions of up to £55,000 – 70% of their salary. They are entitled to draw this non-contributory pension, which is funded solely by the taxpayer, at age 63.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-payoff-157000
Not being able to mount a coup to become head of state and thus loot the national treasury, the President realised years ago he can make millions when losing at business by exploiting a tax rule that gets the taxpayer to fund his losses, and make even more by borrowing from any bank that will lend it, and when President, charge the tax payer to fund golfing trips to clubs that he owns. He is determined to make money from the office of President and even used his blow job with Piers Morgan to advertise the merits of the Scottish golf course that bears his name, surely a clear violation of the moral purpose of the Presidency, even if it is not illegal. If he was Prime Minister of the UK, he would probably be in jail.
Every single person who has been in charge of the Russia investigation has been the subject of attack, a campaign of slander, or an attempt to influence them in a way to challenges the investigation. Comey, Rosenstein, Sessions, McCabe, and Wray.
This memo is another attempt to portray the DOJ as biased against Trump even while many key appointees are Republicans. Nunes originally came into the public eye with the allegations about FISA unmasking that did not hold any water but were timed to distract from the investigation. Now there's this memo that apparently relates to surveillance of Carter Page. It is abundantly obvious that what these people will not accept is any process that leads to scrutiny. Their idea of oversight is for someone to bury his head in the sand.
It seems the issue is Rod Rosenstein's renewal/approval of a FISA warrant to conduct surveillance on Page. The idea is that if Rosenstein can be portrayed as having violated Carter Page's civil liberties, then maybe he can be fired and another Deputy Attorney General can be put in place to curtail Mueller's investigation or fire him. As you can see by the inappropriate answer Rosenstein gave to Trump's question about whose team he was on (the answer should have mentioned his legitimate duties and rebuked the idea of teams), he is not biased against Trump but not sufficiently willing to obstruct justice.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...s-is-safe.html
Thought I'd include this little blurb that makes the question of whether the FISA application relied on the Steele dossier moot. The FISC almost never turns down applications for warrants. That Republicans have suddenly chosen this occasion to object to an application for surveillance is bizarre given the court's history and how easy it has been to target people thought to threaten national security.
http://reason.com/blog/2018/01/31/it...d-to-justify-s
I really can't say as I've heard anyone call that cunting motherfucker a bounder over here...We're not that fucking jolly! :hide-1:Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
The key point in your link is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
Trump and his allies say the FBI's warrant application relied on information from former British intelligence agent Christopher Steele without making it clear to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) that his research had been funded by Hillary Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee.
In fact, two facts trash this claim:
1) as Fusion GPS have pointed out
Three congressional committees have heard over 21 hours of testimony from our firm, Fusion GPS. In those sessions, we toppled the far right’s conspiracy theories and explained how The Washington Free Beacon and the Clinton campaign — the Republican and Democratic funders of our Trump research — separately came to hire us in the first place.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/o...usion-gps.html
2) The FBI warrant was not based on evidence in the 'Steele dossier' but information derived from the claims made by George Papadopoulos that he had dirt on Hillary Clinton:
The big takeaway here is that Papadopoulos's claim to such information made its way to U.S. authorities as early as July 2016 -- suggesting the investigation involving the Trump campaign was predicated on something independent of the Steele dossier.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.37f18563bb66
As you suggested above this is a bear-naked attempt to trash the investigation before it is finished. One suspects Mueller by following the money is getting too close to the wallet of the man in the mirror.
Can the President merge the Attorney General's office with his Communications Office and make Hope Hicks Attorney General?
So farewell, then, Hope Hicks. Nobody knew who you are anyway.
The President's belief that being Chief Executive would make him money may be coming true in some ways -but those 100 golfing trips to his private clubs paid for the by the taxpayer straight into the family till may increase as customer demand in his branded establishments around the world is falling so much the prices are falling too. No wonder the man needs Russian and Saudi money to stay afloat...
Trump slump | How average rates have fallen at his hotels
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...rcial-dispute/
Hotel Price January 2017 Price January 2018 % change Trump Turnberry £498 £215 -57% Trump Las Vegas £637 £237 -63% Trump Panama £345 £269 -22% Trump Doral £729 £340 -53% Trump Doonbeg £334 £357 +7% Trump Vancouver £704 £365 -48% Macleod House & Lodge £500 £450 -10% Trump Soho £575 £451 -22% Trump Chicago £633 £454 -28% Albemarle Estate at Trump Winery £694 £477 -31% Trump Washington DC £1,245 £598 -52% Trump New York £1,009 £682 -32% Trump Waikiki £892 £692 -22% Average £677 £430 -36%
I don't think many people are now either surprised or shocked that the President of the USA should refer to another American as a 'dog', making one wonder if he did not use the female name for the canine species because even that would mark a new low in his lexicon of hate, or perhaps because he doesn't know what the word actually means given that when he did use the word he was referring to male football players. Or maybe it doesn't matter when the people concerned are black and only worthy of insult and abuse and the words are interchangeable.
Maybe people should start using the words the President uses when addressing senior members of his administration, so you could have:
Mr Sessions, you son of a bitch, what have been the latest developments with regard to illegal immigrants?
Ms De Vos, you dog, why did you go to the state of New York earlier this year but not visit a single state school?
As for Omarosa Manigault Newman, when you realise she was the most senior (and the only) African American in the Administration you have to ask if there is something wrong with the President's judgement, given the calibre of his appointments -self-confessed liars, law breakers on the verge of jail time, spongers using tax payers money to fly around the USA and the world, buying expensive knives and forks...what was it Mussolini said? Drenare le palude...
As for the book, titled Unhinged, it hit the shelves today, and in the WH Smith retail network is on sale at 50% off the cover price.
I think the appropriate word is desperate.
I wonder what the President's favourite films are -the ones not made by Playboy that is. This is beyond stupid, it may be that all that soda and junk food is indeed rotting his brain:
According to The Daily Beast, the US president last year met with various heads of veterans’ organisations who were angered over the appointment of the now-sacked Omarosa Manigault-Newman to handle veterans’ affairs.
They were reportedly joined in the March meeting by administration officials including Stephen Miller, Kellyanne Conway, former press secretary Sean Spicer and Ms Manigault-Newman herself.
During discussions, Mr Trump allegedly angered and confused attendees by derailing a conversation about benefits for injured servicemen by getting into a lengthy argument about a scene from the iconic Vietnam War movie.
Rick Weidman, co-founder of Vietnam Veterans for America, reportedly asked that a wider number of veterans injured by the herbicide Agent Orange receive payment from the government.
Mr Trump claimed it was “taken care of”, according to sources who spoke to news site, puzzling attendees who informed the president there had not been nearly enough progress.
Mr Trump responded by asking if Agent Orange was “that stuff from that movie”, which people in the room quickly came to understand was a reference to a scene in Apocalypse Now in which US attack helicopters assault a Vietnamese village.
The Daily Beast reported various people informed the president the scene showed the US military using napalm, not Agent Orange.
Mr Trump reportedly refused to accept he was wrong. “No, I think it’s that stuff from the movie,” he is quoted as saying. He then polled people in the room over which chemical weapon they thought the scene depicted.
He finally asked for the thoughts of Mr Weidman, who assured him it was napalm, adding he thought the movie did a disservice to Vietnam veterans.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8496626.html
A grisly game is being played out in the Middle East (where else?!) as Turkey releases information on the disappearance (alleged execution by Saudi Arabia) of Jamal Khashggi drip by drip to annoy the unelected butchers of Riyadh without taking any meaningful action to protest at a basic violation of the law, if that in itself does not sound too cynical given the manner in which President Erdoga operates in his own country.
The US President has prevaricated, claiming that the $110 Billion dollar arms deal with Saudi Arabia should not be jeapordized by rumours for which there are so far no facts. Fair enough, only that 'arms deal' trumpeted with much zeal in 2017 and since is in reality 'letters of intent' that so far has not produced a single contract. When even the Brookings Institute can all it 'fake news' you know that window dressing is par for the course for the President.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/marka...-is-fake-news/
As for Jamal Kashoggi, some of you may be old enough to remember his uncle Adnan Khashoggi, reputedly worth $4 billion in 1980, a man who used his family's historic connections to the founder of the kingdom, Abdul Aziz ibn Saud (originally Ottoman Turks the premier Khashoggi was ibn Saud's doctor) to become an arms dealer who may have been involved in the Iran-Contra scandal but was certainly known for his parties, not so much cocktail parties, as lots of cock, and lots of tail. Hardly surprising that Jamal knew the scion of that other family with ties to the butchers of Riyadh, the bin Laden's and their favourite son, Osama.
Somewhere in this gruesome mess you will find the cherubic face of Jared Kushner, a man who seems to have been so dazzled by the seriously richer than he Arabs of the Gulf and the Peninsula to believe them when they talk of liberal reform, and how relaxed they are about Israel. That will be any reform that does nothing to undermine their wealth and authority, even as it funnels money for Kushner's absurd real estate empire and his daddy-in-law's 'business'.
You have to wonder if there is any foreign policy coherence in any of this. At least when FDR made his deal with Ibn Saud in 1945 it was to give the US a competitive edge in the kingdom that became hugely important for the US oil industry. All we have at the moment is a US President soaked in Saudi money terrified of losing access to all dem dollars.
After all, if it is proven beyond doubt that Khashoggi was killed and dismembered in the Embassy in Turkey and removed what is the US going to do about it?
Background on the Khashoggi-
https://www.voanews.com/a/who-is-jam...i/4610403.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_..._and_education
https://www.dailysabah.com/investiga...-riyadh-critic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_...#Personal_life
Not long ago the President looked a journalist in the eye and told him he was 'sleazy', and the rallies he attends are not just notorious for his attacks on the media, journalists are grouped together as if in a cage and often the target of the audience's vocal abuse. Now hear this:
"There's a lot at stake. And, maybe especially so because this man was a reporter. There's something -- you'll be surprised to hear me say that, there's something really terrible and disgusting about that if that was the case so we're going to have to see. We're going to get to the bottom of it and there will be severe punishment."
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/13/m...ntl/index.html
As information drips out of Turkey -a state that imprisons more journalists per capita than any other- it is claimed that Khashoggi first went to the Consulate in Istanbul (the Saudi Embassy is in Ankara) in September and was told his papers would be ready in a few weeks, and he thus returned to subsequently disappear. But, on the day, the Consulate staff were told not to return from their lunch-break and take the rest of the day off -and an hour or so later Khashoggi arrived.
What happened next is not clear as one claim is that Khahoggi was murdered and dismembered, either in an office or in the underground car park, his body parts being buried in the garden of the Consul's residence; while another says his parts were taken back to Saudi Arabia and incinerated while a third version claims he was abducted to Saudi Arabia and is still alive, but they can't prove it as the abduction from the sovereign territory of Saudi Arabia in Turkey would be just as illegal and outrageous as a murder.
Just to prove there are no moral victors in this, the Turks claim to have audio and video evidence of the murder in the Consulate, which means they had it bugged which raises the question -have they secret recording equipment in other Consulates and Embassies?
Then there is the question -did the US know in advance either that Khashoggi was at risk or that 'an event' was planned for the Consulate which turned out to be the man's disappearance? That is the claim in this link, though it raises the other question, does the President ever read Intelligence briefings, does he act on them, or did someone in the Administration deliberately not release this intelligence to embarrass the President and the wonder-boy Kushner precisely because of their warm relationships with the Saudis and particularly Kushner's friendship with MSB?
https://observer.com/2018/10/nsa-sou...shoggi-danger/
Although the President will be most concerned to protect his financial interests, which is why he is President, the US is in an impossible position because Israel and Saudi Arabia are its two most powerful allies in the Middle East. Obama proved that it is possible for the US to create a working relationship with Iran, but they are not close to becoming allies again.
The continuing mini-crisis which has seen the Kingdom, Egypt and the USA gang up on Qatar -which has relatively warm relations with Turkey and Iran- adds some spice to this dish, just as Turkey has released the Evangelical pastor -who has since gone down on his knees to ask God to reward the President, a moment almost as bizarre as the Rant of Kan- though he was due for release anyway.
What can actually be done by the US to punish Saudi Arabia? At this stage it may just be holding back on any proposed contracts in the arms sale agreement of 2017, not sending people to the Davos in the Desert conference, maybe not going to their Washington parties, but in the longer term one expects this to have flared up and then die down, with Iran being pushed back into the centre to remind everyone who the 'real' enemy is.
More on the event in Istabul here-
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-1433170798
From the Guardian-
Saudi Arabia has said it will retaliate against any sanctions imposed over the disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi, as the Riyadh stock market had its biggest fall in years.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...a-to-cooperate
But it did occur to me that we should at least consider the possibility that Khashoggi left the Consulate and was abducted by the Turks. It is not as if any of these states care if one person dies in the service of their political agenda. Thousands are dying in the Yemen every day, why should one dissident journalist matter in the conflict between Turkey and Saudi Arabia for a controlling influence in Northern Syria? And so far, it is Turkey 1, Saudi Arabia 0.
I thought it was pretty much decided that Prince Mohammed bin Whatshisname, the one who locked up all his family members? ...I thought he's the guilty party. I think I heard he was surprised at the World Response. In Japan you can't be boss til you're 40, that's when you get WISDOM Turkey I have never figured out, they're on our side, right? Trump's General Buddies better sit him down and explain the facts of life, I guarantee you what we see is not the way it is. It was so nice before 9-11 when all we had to do was send them billions of oil dollars and they'd keep their terrorists over there.
This morning the news is that Saudi Arabia may admit that Khashoggi died during an interrogation but was not murdered- it seems that King Salman is not as ga-ga as was thought and may be restricting his son's access to the media. It may be noteworthy that the US President says he talked to the King, not MSB and that Pompeo will meet Salman, though he might meet MSB.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
The President is desperate to protect his investments, but Salman too may be taking action as he was opposed to Saudi Arabia's support for the removal of the US Embassy in Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem, and will have got a right ear bashing from the relatives locked up by MSB who then had to pay billions to get released. As Frank Gardner in the BBC (disabled following a bomb attack in the Kingdom when he was a journalist there) has put it-
Encouraged by the state-controlled media, many Saudis have been rallying round their leadership. There is even a popular rumour that what happened in Istanbul is all a plot by Qatar and Turkey to discredit the blameless Saudi kingdom.
But privately, others are now questioning whether the 33-year-old Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, the man once hailed as a visionary saviour of Saudi Arabia, has gone too far.
He has pitched his country into a costly and seemingly unwinnable war in Yemen. He is embroiled in a damaging dispute with neighbouring Qatar. He has quarrelled with Canada over human rights, and he has locked up dozens for peaceful protest while alienating many in royal and business circles.
More conservative Saudis may well be hankering for quieter times.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-45871364
The loser in all this would not just be MSB but the lad he says he has 'in his pocket' -Jared Kushner. If this is the man advising the President on Middle Eastern policy, then maybe it is time for the CEO to make a calculation -what does he value most, his money, or the advice of a juvenile? But who knows what will happen next?
We're lucky Trump's in charge.
https://preview.ibb.co/k1vZo0/0.jpg
title status rebuilt definition
My memory is sketchy, but I seem to recall something about a lot of Saudis being put on airplanes back to the Middle East on the afternoon of 9-11. I also vaguely remember Dick Cheney hosting a meeting of all the top Oil Execs a month before gas prices went sky high. Members of Congress on both sides of the aisle aren't above getting rich while they govern, and it's very entertaining to see Trump try and pretend he's going to punish the Saudi Prince just because he killed some journalist. Anything Trump does has dual purposes, those you see and those you don't see. They just did a study that confirms my suspicions, in this world, it is much better to be born rich than naturally talented. In the real world, a Representative in the House couldn't shine the shoes of a Middle East Royal, there's only one business, the MONEY business. Hence, lots of MONKEY business. When you see Lindsey Graham get red in the face and scream injustice, some rich guys just got their way.
This will go down the same way as when cops kill an innocent black guy, they'll put on a show and then in a few months it will be back to business as usual.
Judging a Human Being is difficult, you never know what people are up against, or what people truly care about. But if you empty your pockets, any schoolboy can count the dollars, dimes, and pennies. If you're smart, you're rich.
The US has tended to view Saudi Arabia in terms of the regional balance of power in the Middle East, though the initial cause of the relationship was Ibn Saud's refusal to deal with the Anglo-Persian Oil Company which dominated oil exploration and production in Iran, Iraq, Kuwait and the Gulf, because it was owned by the British government. At the San Remo Conference in 1920 the British and the French excluded the Americans from entering the Iraqi market, so the Saudi's gave their first oil concession to Standard Oil of California in 1933, and the rest is history as far as Aramco goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
Thus FDR when he met Ibn Saud on the USS Quincy in 1945 was meeting an important source of US support in the Middle East, even though they disagreed about the Palestinians and the Jews. When Truman and Saud agreed the Point Four programme in 1951 to modernize Saudi Arabia's defence forces an Air Training mission was sent, with the stipulation that it not contain any Jews, and that any Christians would not be allowed to hold any kind of relgious service in the Kingdom. When Eisenhower was President and Ibn Saud first went to the US, in 1957 the US was mostly concerned to limit the influence of Egypt's President Gamal Abdul Nasser (with whom Saudi Arabia would eventually go to war in the Yemen in 1962, a war they lost). Saudi Arabia was lukewarm on Nasser's attempts to create what became in 1958 the 'United Arab Repubic' with Syria, Jordan having rejected it at the same time Saudi took American advice and did likewise.
When he arrived in New York, the Mayor, Robert F. Wagner refused to meet him on the basis of the Kingdom's open abuse of Jews, and the existence of slavery in the Kingdom (not offiicially outlawed until the 1960s). Ibn Saud and his flock occupied seven floors (!) of the Waldorf-Astoria with the initial intention that the King's son Mashur, who had Polio, be treated at a Jewish endowed hospital in the city. To avoid any embarrassment should this leak out, the son was treated at the Walter Reed Hospital in Washington DC. (In 1985 he spent two weeks in prison in the UK for smuggling cocaine into our blessed land).
Relations with JFK were not good, as the US tried to placate both Egypt, leaning at that time toward the USSR but in receipt of substantial US aid (this has to be one of the least explored and most expensive waste of tax dollars in US foreign policy) and Saudi Arabia over the Yemen, but in 1962 Kennedy decided to recognise the Republican government in Sana'a much to Ibn Saud's disgust, and the war carried on regardless. LBJ showed no interest in the Kingdom whereas Nixon had to deal with the first phase of the crisis that followed the war of 1973 at a time when he was in his own Watergate inspired crisis. A threatening letter sent to King Feisal at the time of the Arab boycott -signed by Nixon, written by Kissinger, was reviewed by Embassy staff in Riyadh who sent it back to be re-written.
Carter was in Saudi Arabia at the end of 1977 at a time when he was trying to persuade them to support Egypt's Anwar Sadat's peace negotiations with Israel but may be noteworthy for the agreement to sell the Kingdom the same F-15 fighter jets that Israel was buying, though not as many. After some hostility in Congress the sale was agreed, but this as with the Truman era underlines the extent to which the US-Saudi Arabian relationship has been one determined by the balance of power in the Middle East -Saudi Arabia as the reliable anti-Communist ally- and the Kingdom's lavish spending on armaments. In all of these cases, the domestic politics of Saudi Arabia has been set aside on the basis it is not the USA's business to interfere in their politics, in spite of the moral qualms many Americans have had about dealing with brutal a family business which, in its religious, Wahabi operations is openly abusive of Jews in the literature which it provides for Saudi funded Madrasas around the world, from Venezuela to Afghanistan.
One could go on at length on the relations as they developed during the 1980s when the US and Saudi Arabia joined forces in Afghanistan in a pact that has to my mind been catastrophic for both the US and Afghanistan, much as that lawless land was for the British who fought three wars between 1839 and 1919 and lost all of them. The fact is that the US is terrified of an implosion in Saudi Arabia where there is no civil society worthy of the name and where, in the absence of any organized opposition to the family the prospects for chaos on the Syrian level are all to bleak to contemplate.
Basically, you are stuck with them, Jew-hating, head chopping crooks that they are. But it was never more about the money than it is now, because the President has been soaked in it for so long, and because he loves it, however much he tries to re-write history:
- President Donald Trump said Tuesday that "I have no financial interests in Saudi Arabia" — but in fact he has boasted in the past that "I make a lot of money with them."
- Trump has sold apartments and a yacht for millions of dollars to Saudis, and recent decreases in bookings in his New York and Chicago properties since he has been president have been offset, to some extent, by business from Saudi customers.
- Trump's tweet denying a financial stake in Saudi Arabia comes amid a growing furor over suspicions that the country's rulers ordered the killing of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/16/trum...kes-money.html
The Saudis have also been the principal supporters of extreme fundamentalist Islam around the world.
https://www.salon.com/2016/01/06/sau...cratic_nation/
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yo...b_6501916.html
Supporting them for the sake of their help in combating terrorism is like recruiting arsonists to the fire brigade.
The Middle East is a complicated place. My roommate went there on business and they were chopping off body parts of sinners in the City Square. It's like FDR warming up to Uncle Joe Stalin at Yalta. It's a case of bad, or total war. Lucky we've got Trump all over it...…..
I think it's pretty clear what is going to happen.
1. The Saudis will pin the blame for Khassogi's killing on a few 'rogue' operatives in their intelligence service.
2. Erdogan will extract some favours from the US and Saudis as the price of Turkey going along with the cover-up. https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-murder-221609
3. US intelligence pointing to MBS's complicity will be ignored and covered up. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...-arabia-913238
4. They'll all hope the furore blows over and the Republicans in Congress will do little to back up their words with action, as usual. https://www.vox.com/2018/10/18/17996...hner-trump-nyt
Indeed, so no surprises so far. Having insisted Khashoggi left the Consulate alive, the Saudis now say he did die inside, and have found excuses and culprits in senior positions, though it remains to be seen if they will be put on trial and executed. It gives the President his way out of what some are calling the most serious foreign policy crisis of the Presidency so far, though I don't see it as being that serious. For the simple reason that the President and the Saudis don't care if Khashoggi is alive, dead, a hero, a martyr or any other words you want to conjure up, like 'forgotten' which they hope will be soon. As for violence against journalists, apparently it is one way of getting his support and winning an election.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
It is all about the money, and the strategic balance which has consolidated the US-Saudi alliance over the years, and which remains fixated on Iran as the 'real enemy'.
That said, we don't yet know the full impact in Saudi Arabia because while Salman has moved to ring-fence MBS from direct criticism, MBS's reckless actions will give some influence to those Royals who hate him and who also have the ear of the King. One could also argue that Saudi Arabia is more vulnerable to divisions within the Royal Family rather than political opposition across the Kingdom which is easier to crush. It is too early to say if MBS will retain his supreme position or be forced to share it with another Prince.
The other Prince, Jared Kushner must also now be in a weaker position, having built his so-called 'Middle East policy' around the spurious modernizing MBS, an unofficial alliance between Saudi Arabia and Israel, and the alliance with the UAE. The key policy options have been to confront Iran, directly and through its closest friends, Qatar and Syria; to starve the Palestinians into submission by pretending they don't exist -fuelled by the belief most Arab Sultans and Kings have given up on them anyway, which may be true, but ignores a deep reservoir of solidarity for Palestinians among ordinary Arabs; and to see off the 'Houthi' rebels in Yemen believed to be supported by Iran, but primarily because they represent a destabilizing force in the South with the added frisson that by definition the 'Houthi' are not Wahabi, being a 1990s offshoot of the Zaydi Islam that has held sway in this part of the world since the schism in Islam that followed Muhammad's death, although the Zaydi are the Shi'a closest to mainstream Sunni, which the Wahabi are not, being extremists.
The US, like Britain and France, has formed alliances with savage dictators for over a century, usually justified in strategic terms, for example during the Cold War, for economic reasons or both. The US has paid the price for taking sides in the Middle East in the 1967 War, as a result of which various Arab forces have attacked it in the region and inside the US itself. The US has been spared the wrath of the Africans who watched their families and friends slaughtered or imprisoned and tortured by the US-baked Mobutu or through proxies in Angola and Mozambique, though American indifference has seen China become the most favoured nation for domestic investment on the continent, so that the US has lost out on that.
Closer to home, the Caravan of Desperate Hondurans revives the bitter legacy of the USA's choices which supported Military Dictatorship across Central and Southern America, dictatorships that enabled Big Men to help themselves to the national wealth while domestic economic development was neglected and the 'shadow economy' (as if it were not seen!) of narcotics became the next best option but generated a culture of criminality and violence to the extent that in a recent survey, the Worst Place in the World to be a Woman was judged to be, not Pakistan or Afghanistan, but Honduras. It may be a desperate option, but if the choice is between life and death, most people will choose life, just as so many Americans have chosen to puff and sniff on the narcotics that drive the violence that drives people out of the country in despair.
The decisions made by the President today, may result in something terrible, not now, but in 10 years time. Who knows? As usual, the problem is being kicked down the road so that someone else will have to deal with it. Maybe that is the art of the deal, to make a mess of a situation, walk away, and hand the solution -and the costs- to someone else.
You mean like borrowing 2 trillion to give to big business? Or eliminating regulations that curb global warming?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
There are reasons my generation skipped a Great Depression, or a World War, you have to take serious steps and pay for them. You need the State Department stocked with our best and brightest. You need NATO.
There was an article in the "STYLE" section this morning that said in an interview with Larry King in 2004, a phone caller asked Donald how he dealt with stress. He had just started "The Apprentice" and with episodes entitled like "ethics schmethics" he said it was alarming to be so famous and yet there were still earthquakes in Pakistan that killed 500,00 people, so he to cope he'd just tell himself IT DOESN'T MATTER. WE'LL SEE. That works OK when your Dad is a multi-millionaire, but not so great for the President of the United States. Two years into Lincoln's presidency he had aged twenty years, Trump is still doing stand up comedy at his rallies. It's well known that Republicans like to Win, Democrats like to be Right. One day some Historian or Psychiatrist will define Trump, and how he became THE spokesman for 40% of the country. Actually, I guess it's really 20% of the country, half don't vote because they think it doesn't matter. Obama was right when he said Trump is not the problem, Trump is a symptom of the problem. I don't think Khashoggi feels that way, and we all need to hope people don't start dying because of Trump. Let's hope Democrats turn that hope into votes, and the Republicans don't rig the voting machines.
It looks like Erdogan is not going to play along, or maybe the Saudis refused to pay his price. Apart from the brazen cynicism of it, the incredible thing about this episode is how amateurishly hamfisted the Saudis have been. The guy impersonating Khashoggi leaving the consulate even had the wrong shoes. Even Trump seems to have realised belatedly that nobody else was buying the Saudi's story and calling it credible was a really bad look.
Smarkets.com are offering 17/10 on Trump being re-elected in 2020 ! At the moment; sounds like a license to print money to me?
You won't find better for sure. Think I'll have some of that instead of the football later.:grin:
How does that Neil Young song go?
There is a wall round San Antonio
All my troubles were there...
https://www.indy100.com/article/dona...ntonio-8737061
Perhaps now is the time for the Christian pastors who give the President the latest from God Central, to practice what they preach?
Donald Trump is the living embodiment of the seven deadly sins – pride, greed, lust, gluttony, wrath, envy and sloth – and he is the precise obverse of the seven virtues as enunciated by Pope Gregory in 590 AD: chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience, kindness and humility.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ite-house-2020
Can someone confirm that in the US a subpoena is no longer a legal instrument, that the President is right, that anyone issued with one from the redundant Congress can simply ignore it because Congress is a redundant, useless obstacle to the will of HIM?
10,000 lies, and nobody cares. It is now normal. Funny old world innit?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ouse-oversight
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ims-fact-check
I know its good for a laugh, but the man claims to be President.
"I meet and talk to 'foreign governments' every day. I just met with the Queen of England (U.K.), the Prince of Whales, the P.M. of the United Kingdom, the P.M. of Ireland, the President of France and the President of Poland. We talked about 'Everything!' Should I immediately call the FBI about those calls and meetings? How ridiculous!"
No, but maybe call your doctor.