...and the land of the freeeeeeeeee." - Not.

Inhouston, the stated purpose of the stings was to cut down on drunk driving, or people doing stupid things. You are pulled over while driving drunk on one occasion and you respond to police outside a bar on another one by exposing a girl's boobs and you do not get in any legal trouble. But some African American do nothing more than be loud and annoying and make some white folks nervous and they are hauled off to jail. You don't see the inequity in that??

If it had been a bunch of obnoxious Enron traders in the same Bennigans, shouting about the killing they made that day in the market, or how they had raped this Public Utility or that one, equally boisterous and equally obnoxious, they would never get arrested. When a law is so vague that it gives the police discretion that they exercise in race-based ways, its just wrong, and the clearest form of civil rights violation.

Of all injustice, that is the greatest which goes under the name of law; and of all sorts of tyranny the forcing of the letter of the law against the equity, is the most insupportable”
L. Estrange


FK

Hehe. I've been running across these InHouston posts more often lately, kinda funny. He seems like an intelligent, at least articulate guy, but I just can't climb on board with his dream of a sanitized, "safe for the white man" world.

Black guys were getting loud and talking shit at Bennigans? Holy Crap, who let "those people" into Bennigans!? How can anyone enjoy their shrimp scampi with people like that around? Loud talking is obviously a precursor to shooting the place up.

On a serious note, loud "trash talking" is annoying in most settings. They should be told to calm down and there is no argument there. But calling the cops? That's just knee jerk "them black folk are acting up!" sort of bullshit.

I've seen all kinds of scary bar situations. Violent fights, beat downs, knives or guns pulled out, people kicked in the head, blood spewing all over the place, you name it. The majority of stupid violence (vs just talking shit) has always been at the hands of drunk white jocks, rednecks, or skinheads. I have seen people who are not white commit stupid, violent acts, but white people seem to be the worst in most cases, they just tend to get away with it more often.

Admittedly, this is coming from a guy in white bread Minneapolis, but that's just things as far as I've seen 'em.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hondarobot

... "safe for the white man" world.

Black guys were getting loud and talking shit at Bennigans? Holy Crap, who let "those people" into Bennigans!? How can anyone enjoy their shrimp scampi with people like that around?

---

I have four good friends in my life, two of which I spend the most time with who are black, and one who is hispanic, and the last I spend the least time with is white. So you can put your race card back in your deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hondarobot

Loud talking is obviously a precursor to shooting the place up.

---

Loud talking is not necessarily a precursor to shooting up the place. However, when two gangsters are pointing to myself and other patrons loudly boasting "I'll shoot dat mutha fucka, him, her ... I don't give a fuck", then yes there is the possibility that a violent confrontation could ensue. There were men, women, and children in there. All that was needed was for some concerned parent to ask them to refrain from using vulgarity around their children, and all hell would have probably been unleashed in there. This occurred in a downtown Bennigan’s and half the patrons in there were black. After they were removed, one black guy at the bar said out loud “Damn them drive-by niggas had me scared too.”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Felicia Katt

Inhouston, the stated purpose of the stings was to cut down on drunk driving, or people doing stupid things. You are pulled over while driving drunk on one occasion and you respond to police outside a bar on another one by exposing a girl's boobs and you do not get in any legal trouble. But some African American do nothing more than be loud and annoying and make some white folks nervous and they are hauled off to jail. You don't see the inequity in that??

If it had been a bunch of obnoxious Enron traders in the same Bennigans, shouting about the killing they made that day in the market, or how they had raped this Public Utility or that one, equally boisterous and equally obnoxious, they would never get arrested. When a law is so vague that it gives the police discretion that they exercise in race-based ways, its just wrong, and the clearest form of civil rights violation.

Of all injustice, that is the greatest which goes under the name of law; and of all sorts of tyranny the forcing of the letter of the law against the equity, is the most insupportable”
L. Estrange


FK

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I see your point, but this wasn't a racial matter, it was a criminal matter. Half the patrons in that downtown Bennigan’s were African American and everyone was relieved when they were removed. Now the restaurant can refuse service to any patron, and I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the manager possibly called the police. He probably didn’t want to confront these two individuals, as none of us would have wanted to either. I do recall the police initially talking quietly to the two individuals, suggesting they ratchet down the talk or leave. Then one of them jumped up and challenged the police officer’s legal premise on confronting them, and it was shortly over for both of them after that.

Call it what you will, but I saw it for what it was. With the Public Intoxication laws in Texas, one shouldn’t sit in a bar intoxicated loudly touting their propensity for violent tactics against innocent citizens lest they end up in the drunk-tank downtown.

I agree that, if you and others felt honestly threatened in that situation, then it would be appropriate to call the police. Not a racial matter at all, just common sense.

Soooo. . . .

Why did you bring up the fact that they were black at all? I guess it is part of the story, but it certainly doesn't help you argument that race wasn't a factor in how you viewed things at the time. You could have left race out of it entirely, just "two loud, violent guys", but you chose to include those descriptive details.

Evidence, although admittedly not proof, that race is indeed a factor for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hondarobot

I agree that, if you and others felt honestly threatened in that situation, then it would be appropriate to call the police. Not a racial matter at all, just common sense.

Soooo. . . .

Why did you bring up the fact that they were black at all? I guess it is part of the story, but it certainly doesn't help you argument that race wasn't a factor in how you viewed things at the time. You could have left race out of it entirely, just "two loud, violent guys", but you chose to include those descriptive details.

Evidence, although admittedly not proof, that race is indeed a factor for you.

---

A couple of earlier posts from otheres suggested that racism played a factor in this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InHouston

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hondarobot

... "safe for the white man" world.

Black guys were getting loud and talking shit at Bennigans? Holy Crap, who let "those people" into Bennigans!? How can anyone enjoy their shrimp scampi with people like that around?

---

I have four good friends in my life, two of which I spend the most time with who are black, and one who is hispanic, and the last I spend the least time with is white. So you can put your race card back in your deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hondarobot

Loud talking is obviously a precursor to shooting the place up.

---

Loud talking is not necessarily a precursor to shooting up the place. However, when two gangsters are pointing to myself and other patrons loudly boasting "I'll shoot dat mutha fucka, him, her ... I don't give a fuck", then yes there is the possibility that a violent confrontation could ensue. There were men, women, and children in there. All that was needed was for some concerned parent to ask them to refrain from using vulgarity around their children, and all hell would have probably been unleashed in there. This occurred in a downtown Bennigan’s and half the patrons in there were black. After they were removed, one black guy at the bar said out loud “Damn them drive-by niggas had me scared too.”

---

LOL. Sounds like the old "some of my best friends are jews" line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hondarobot

I agree that, if you and others felt honestly threatened in that situation, then it would be appropriate to call the police. Not a racial matter at all, just common sense.

Soooo. . . .

Why did you bring up the fact that they were black at all? I guess it is part of the story, but it certainly doesn't help you argument that race wasn't a factor in how you viewed things at the time. You could have left race out of it entirely, just "two loud, violent guys", but you chose to include those descriptive details.

Evidence, although admittedly not proof, that race is indeed a factor for you.

---

Without looking to comment on the entire breadth of this debate, I do want to note something about one specific point. So far as InHouston's use of race as a descriptive in his recounting of the event is concerned, I think the criticism is a bit unfair. How often does someone just say something like "two guys were acting a certain way"? To include a description of race, age, gender, height, size or whatever does not seem, in and of itself, to be indicative of bias.

-Quinn

Fair enough, Quinn. I can't judge InHouston to be a racist (although I never said I did, exactly) based solely on something he posts on HA and/or how he words it. I just got a bad feel for him after reading a few other posts. I won't give any examples, as others can make their own conclusions. Also, I may not agree with his views on things, but that's my issue, not his.

I also find it hard to believe that anyone would think two stone cold killahs rolled into. . .Bennigans, prepared to shoot the place up or commit other acts of violence. I guess it happens, but I don't think Bennigans is a place too many people have to worry about a bullet spree breaking out. Agreed, it could happen and even happens at McDonalds, but it seemed like a bit of an over reaction to call the cops on account of two loud drunks.

The staff or management should have handled it, that's part of the job.

All I'm gonna say is I was left with the impression of that guy in 12 Angry Men. "I mean, you know how these people are, how they live! I mean, some of 'em are OK, but you just can't trust 'em!"

Or, as Scipio said. . .

Just to give my two cent on the original point of this thread...

What a load of nonsense. Here in Ireland we have banned smoking in pubs and clubs for a couple of years now and it was a great move. Your clothes don't smell like crap whenyou get home, and the development of outdoor smoking shelters has given us a new way to chat up women.

But banning drunkeness in bars?

I am glad to say that would never happen here, but if it did you might as well close the whoe country down. If this is their solution for drink driving they might as well ban driving on roads!!!