60 minutes = $188 million in new debt

Government spending cannot make the economy go. Government has no money, it only has what it takes from its citizens. The private sector and private spending drives the economy. Japan has been trying to buy its way out of a 10 year recession and how is that working? We just spent over a trillion dollars to guarantee the unemployment rate didn't go over 8%, how'd that work out?

If our country had the balls to stand up and say were going to reduce our debt and balance our budget. The economic confidence that would develop would bounce us out of the stagnant hole were in. I strongly disagree with you Hippi, the debt is too big, beyond too big and its becoming unmanageable.

The government IS its citizens. You guys keep trying to make it seem as if the government is some malevolent external entity. That's simply not true. We're not our own enemy. The purpose of a society is to pool resources for mutual protection from external entities & to make life better for those within the society. Government is the vehicle for doing that. There's 300,000,000 people here. We can't pretend to live in small tribal societies or rustic mythic rural utopias. Capitalism is pooling resources. Communism is pooling resources. All the economic philosophical 'isms are about pooling resources. Creating fear of ideas, any ideas, is counterproductive.

As for Japan: It's private speculation that's been deflating their currency & turning them from a net exporter to a net importer. It's the same private speculators that had been inflating ours, & would have deflated it without intervention through QE. Rational self interest as a system is a myth. None of these rigid ideologies take human nature & the inevitable malevolence of greed into account. There's no utopia.

Well the kids maxed out the credit card, going to be interesting to see what happens next. In just 9 days we've added $40.6 billion..

http://theheartofamerica.files.wordp...bt-ceiling.jpg

http://patdollard.com/wp-content/upl...bt-ceiling.jpg

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Originally Posted by Faldur

Government spending cannot make the economy go. Government has no money, it only has what it takes from its citizens. The private sector and private spending drives the economy. Japan has been trying to buy its way out of a 10 year recession and how is that working? We just spent over a trillion dollars to guarantee the unemployment rate didn't go over 8%, how'd that work out?

If our country had the balls to stand up and say were going to reduce our debt and balance our budget. The economic confidence that would develop would bounce us out of the stagnant hole were in. I strongly disagree with you Hippi, the debt is too big, beyond too big and its becoming unmanageable.

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The function of government is to look out for the general welfare of all its citizens. Less than three years ago, we had a world wide financial crisis. The financial industry had been given more freedom, through new laws, such as the Financial Reform Act of 1999, and relaxation from other regulatory oversight. So this is your ideal utopia of what are the effects of less government on private spending. I heard it said that 1/4 of the world's wealth was wiped out. How did this happen? It is still playing out regarding the various responsibilities. However many are looking at the practices of the financial industry. Here is one article on a government inquiry into the their actions. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43055919/

So my point is that I agree, whole heartedly with Hippifried's last post. Your idealization of the private sector fails to take into account, greed, and other human failings. Here's one example: Shouldn't I be able to trust my doctor for medical advice? Sure my relatives could sue, if malpractice contributes to my death. But government oversight raises standards that help me directly, in several ways. One thing, you may not think of, but people of my race were refused medical care, only because of their race. But because of government intervention into the private sector, our options are greater these days. I just looked up the most famous case of this happening; it was a Black doctor. I discovered that he died two days before I was born. So we are not talking about ancient history, either. It could have happened to me.

Debt Clock

Debt Clock = fear stimulator. Real consequences could be that the dollar is devalued, making it more expensive, to outsource labor and buy foriegn goods. It could get so expensive that they might end up having to pay American workers, and make it profitable for local people to fix things. This whole thing does mean less profit margin for the wealthiest, but works for the general good, as more money is circulated through local communities.

"The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself." Since the Debt Clock = fear, we then have to fear the debt clock itself, more than its numbers.

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Originally Posted by yodajazz

Debt Clock = fear stimulator.

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Do you consider keeping track of your expenditures and deposits fear mongering? How many successful businesses do not keep a ledger?

The Debt Clock is a snap shot of the countries financial status. When I see things like Gross Debt To GDP Ration at 97%, that is reason for alarm. Interest expense from 2010 to 2011 jumped 35%, from $188 billion to $251 billion. Projected by the year 2020 to be $800 billion annually. I don't want to startle you my man but does that sound sustainable? Our interest on the debt if allowed to continue will become our largest budget item.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...easury%202.jpg

...funny how people blame Bush. Look at how much Obama increased the deficit. He surpassed
Bush in just two years.... but hey, why let silly facts get in the way of a debate, right?


The FSA (Free Ahit Army) are leechfucks....they want more, more and more. The only thing that will "fix"this is a 40% haircut in FEDGOV, namely unfunded liabilities. Since the Supreme Court has in fact ruled that SS is a tax......and Tax Cheat Turbo Timmae came out Monday and blatantly told everyone that SS is now 100% insolvent.....well, let's just say that things are going to get interesting very soon. There is no SS lock box, there never was.

I for one can't wait to see the riots begin in the inner cities when the FSA don't get their Welfare checks. The food riots alone will make me have to go out and buy a TV and watch the boob tube again, something I've not done in 8 years.

You can argue politics all you want...but you can't argue math.

We're broke ass. Time for a reset. This is gonna be good.

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Trish thats complete nonsense, the yearly budgets are easily accessible. 84% are you kidding me? Look at the facts sweetheart, The Federal Budget, 2004-2009

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Both trish and hippifried are not required to use "facts" here on this BB. That has been patently evident now for years.

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Originally Posted by Faldur

Do you consider keeping track of your expenditures and deposits fear mongering? How many successful businesses do not keep a ledger?

The Debt Clock is a snap shot of the countries financial status. When I see things like Gross Debt To GDP Ration at 97%, that is reason for alarm. Interest expense from 2010 to 2011 jumped 35%, from $188 billion to $251 billion. Projected by the year 2020 to be $800 billion annually. I don't want to startle you my man but does that sound sustainable? Our interest on the debt if allowed to continue will become our largest budget item.

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The issue is not about keeping a ledger. The problem is that there is so much focus on the ledger, every second, in this case one loses perspective on all other aspects of humanity. Beside federal debt, babies are born, people die, get married, purchase goods, etc. All these things eventually impact the quality of life of society. The downfall of our nation, is that now too many people only care about the bottom line in their pockets immediately rather, rather than seeing that investing in the general good. I think it is significant that in this thread Beandip, assumes that we will have to cut the basic survival needs of the poorest, and not assume, that the class of people who have gained a greater share of the total wealth, in recent years need to pay more taxes, or that we should be looking at our military role in the world, or even demanding greater accountability of military spending.

A major problem with not caring about humanity, is the mental process of disconnecting oneself from greater humanity. One has to disconnect with human suffering, with a false since of superiority, and have a basic ungratefulness, of the sacrifice and contributions of the labor class, along with the potential within each to rise above. This includes the poor. One also has to sacrifice the concept of "one nation". When people see themselves as part of whole, they realize that some sacrifice may be nescessary in times of crisis. This is how our nation advanced in the past. But the disconnect, is that we now ignore how and why we were successful, to only be concerned about what material goods we can accumulate, damn grandma, is she has some pains, making her life miserable.

The Debt Clock can only measure money. I'm not saying ignore debt. But focusing on it exclusively, ignores the rest of life, which is the human condition.