The Biden Presidency

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thombergeron

Unsurprising since you're just regurgitating shit you saw on TV, but this is non-responsive. Whether or not Section 5 was constitutional is a separate question from the effect of the ruling. The effect has been that jurisdictions with a prior history of racist voter suppression, now that they're freed from the preclearance requirement for new voting laws, have passed a slew of laws that make it more difficult to vote.

Nobody invented the term "voter suppression." In English, it's called a compound noun. That's how language works. As you pointed out previously, neighborhood-based polling places and van pools for voters make it easier to vote. If a jurisdiction removes polling places and imposes strict requirements on van pools for voters, as GOP-controlled states have done post-Shelby, then it becomes more difficult to vote. We know, again from evidence, that difficulty accessing polling places suppresses voter turnout. Therefore, thanks to English, we say that efforts to make it more difficult to vote are voter suppression.

You must be in California or Oregon if you think anybody can just mail in their ballot lickety split. Most places you have to apply beforehand, and you may have guessed that, yep, the Texas legislature is also making it more difficult for voters to access mail-in ballots. I wonder why. Do you have any idea why the GOP wants fewer people voting?

---

I don't watch TV unless the Yankees are playing, Thomber. Ever. My mind is clean and pure as a falling snowflake.

The mail-in requirements vary state-to-state but there is no state where you cannot request and obtain a mail-in ballot for ANY VALID REASON WHATSOEVER. Gotta work that day? You can vote by mail. Car broke? You can vote by mail. Not going to be in town on Election Day? You can vote by mail. You're an in-home caregiver? You can vote by mail. INCARCERATED? You can vote by mail. In any state. And the vetting process is non-existent, you give the reason, they take your word for it.

The GOP doesn't want fewer people voting. It wants less election fraud. That's why they've tried to introduce Voter ID laws. You know, where you actually have to legally identify yourself in order to vote, so that they can know that you're not actually a dead or non-existent person. Pretty tough. Almost as hard as buying beer. Is there some kind of ID issue with Democrats, are there a bunch of Democratic voters who can't legally identify themselves? I don't see the problem there.

Also, your example is Texas. Let me tell you something about Texas. Texas will ALWAYS be a red state now. Since 1980 they've gotten redder, and redder, and redder. The Hispanic vote is undergoing a major shift toward conservative, because Hispanics are not the fools Democrats believe they are. So for purposes of the actual outcome of a presidential election, it doesn't matter if Texas shuts down a few polling sites in a few bad neighborhoods. If they are doing that, well, that's Texas, they do what they want and threaten to secede if we don't like it.

I don't have a polling site in my neighborhood, Thomber. I have to drive several miles to vote, in Utah or Tennessee. Again, almost as hard as buying beer.

Let me ask you a question. Do YOU think illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thombergeron

My guy, you did that all by your lonesome.

---

Hey, Thomber, I'm wide open, feel free to engage at any level that makes you comfortable. But I'd save the 4chan banter for your classmates, I'm not that sensitive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

The mail-in requirements vary state-to-state but there is no state where you cannot request and obtain a mail-in ballot for ANY VALID REASON WHATSOEVER. Gotta work that day? You can vote by mail. Car broke? You can vote by mail. Not going to be in town on Election Day? You can vote by mail. You're an in-home caregiver? You can vote by mail. INCARCERATED? You can vote by mail. In any state. And the vetting process is non-existent, you give the reason, they take your word for it.

---

For real true life my dude you do not know your ass from the road to China. Only 35 states offer no-excuse mail-in voting. Several of those (Arizona, Ohio, Missouri) are currently trying to get rid of it.

And HOLY SHIT YOU CANNOT VOTE IF YOU ARE INCARCERATED. Only two states even allow current prisoners to vote, and Vermont and Maine don't exactly bend over backwards to run those polls. Two states still PERMANENTLY DISENFRANCHISE ALL FELONS and seven others disenfranchise those with certain felony convictions. You cannot vote in friggin deep blue Washington state if you're on parole or probation. Read a book, man.[/QUOTE]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

The GOP doesn't want fewer people voting. It wants less election fraud.

---

Bullshit. There's no election fraud in the United States. Everybody knows that, including the GOP. You all just lie about it because because it's to your political advantage to lie about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

Also, your example is Texas. Let me tell you something about Texas. Texas will ALWAYS be a red state now. Since 1980 they've gotten redder, and redder, and redder. The Hispanic vote is undergoing a major shift toward conservative, because Hispanics are not the fools Democrats believe they are. So for purposes of the actual outcome of a presidential election, it doesn't matter if Texas shuts down a few polling sites in a few bad neighborhoods. If they are doing that, well, that's Texas, they do what they want and threaten to secede if we don't like it.

---

So you've gone from "There's no voter suppression" to "Voter suppression is absolutely necessary to keep Texas Texas." At least you're moving in the general direction of honesty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

Do YOU think illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote?

---

No I think you should have to be a U.S. citizen and a permanent resident of the jurisdiction in which you vote.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thombergeron

For real true life my dude you do not know your ass from the road to China. Only 35 states offer no-excuse mail-in voting. Several of those (Arizona, Ohio, Missouri) are currently trying to get rid of it.

And HOLY SHIT YOU CANNOT VOTE IF YOU ARE INCARCERATED. Only two states even allow current prisoners to vote, and Vermont and Maine don't exactly bend over backwards to run those polls. Two states still PERMANENTLY DISENFRANCHISE ALL FELONS and seven others disenfranchise those with certain felony convictions. You cannot vote in friggin deep blue Washington state if you're on parole or probation. Read a book, man.

Bullshit. There's no election fraud in the United States. Everybody knows that, including the GOP. You all just lie about it because because it's to your political advantage to lie about it.

So you've gone from "There's no voter suppression" to "Voter suppression is absolutely necessary to keep Texas Texas." At least you're moving in the general direction of honesty.

No I think you should have to be a U.S. citizen and a permanent resident of the jurisdiction in which you vote.

---

Wow. It's funny when liberals spout off wildly about things they don't know, but it's even funnier when you can just post one link and discredit their entire world view.

https://www.vote.org/absentee-voting-rules/

Also, being incarcerated doesn't mean you are a felon. Also, most felons can vote if they apply for reinstatement of the privilege.

Done with this guy. NEXT!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thombergeron

Bullshit. There's no election fraud in the United States. Everybody knows that, including the GOP. You all just lie about it because because it's to your political advantage to lie about it.

---

There is actually quite a lot of election fraud in the USA. There were 475 cases of documented election fraud in the most recent election cycle. And no, I don't think the Presidential election was rigged, I'm not that guy. But election fraud does happen and Republican efforts to create Voter ID laws are not "voter suppression," they are good-faith efforts to address a legitimate problem. Just maybe not as big of a problem as some Republicans would want you to believe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thombergeron

No I think you should have to be a U.S. citizen and a permanent resident of the jurisdiction in which you vote.

---

I would like to add, Thomber, that we are in agreement here.

And I don't want to discourage you from arguing on our little containment board here, the more the merrier says me, and if liberals around here talk sense, I think most people would have to agree I'm fair with them. Flighty would never agree with that but Flighty is a very angry person. Still, we have our moments of mutual clarity here and a lot of fun ragging on each other. And I promise that if you don't treat me like I'm stupid, I won't dismiss you like you're 12.

Have a nice day.

Here's another point that those rushing to write off this Presidency are overlooking. Reagan, Clinton and Obama all had periods in their first 2 years when their approval ratings nose-dived. All had poor mid-terms, especially Clinton and Obama, but recovered to win second terms.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...pproval-rating

There are some parallels with Clinton. He also struggled to pass legislation due to internal opposition, and his signature health reform went nowhere. Although the election count was not disputed, he was never really accepted as legitimate by the other side (Republican obstructionism dates from this time). There was even an inflation scare, which led the Federal Reserve to jack up interest rates in 1994.

Clinton was able to recover partly because the economy entered a long boom period, but also because the Republicans became too arrogant and overplayed their hand. The key turning point came when they shut down the government in 1995 and 1996 to try to force spending cuts.

This is not to say that history will repeat necessarily, but it's possible. It is certainly conceivable that the economy will further improve, inflation will abate, and that the other side will overplay their hand in some way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

There is actually quite a lot of election fraud in the USA. There were 475 cases of documented election fraud in the most recent election cycle.

---

475 cases out of 158,383,403 votes cast equals 0.0003 per cent, or one in 333,000 votes. Huge problem.

The argument that this is just about voter ID to prevent fraud is just plain disingenuous. There is a whole bunch of laws either passed or proposed in Republican-controlled states that are obviously designed to make voting harder, including by reducing voting times and locations, increasing bureaucratic hoops and purging voters from the rolls for dubious reasons.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...-december-2021

Perhaps the most sinister aspect is the number of states that are moving to allow partisan interference in vote-counting processes on flimsy pretexts. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...ss-can-stop-it

If this was just about voter ID then why did no Republican support Joe Machin's compromise voting-rights bill, which would have allowed ID requirements, but with a wider range of acceptable ID? It's pretty clear that they do want fewer people voting.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...elections.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

And I don't want to discourage you from arguing on our little containment board here, the more the merrier says me, and if liberals around here talk sense, I think most people would have to agree I'm fair with them.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by broncofan

You're a person for whom the distinction between fact and fiction no longer exists. There's no other explanation for your views. The only information you assimilate is that which supports your priors. Anything inconvenient is waved away or quickly forgotten.

Are you deplorable? Worse than that. You're boring and limited. You've decided to fear what you don't understand, which is a great deal, while telling yourself you're a big alpha predator. Your next debate is with your mirror.

---

If we didn't already know this man is pathologically delusional we might think he is sending himself up.

Sorry, bronco, I just love that quote of yours so much I have to keep citing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by broncofan

One time when I pointed out to Nick Danger that Trump is an absolute moron, he said something about how his style of bluster and false bravado is all we need.

---

In fact, I think he has claimed that being dishonest, unscrupulous and amoral were ideal qualities in a leader. Strange that he now complains about Biden being allegedly a liar.