Occupy Wall Street protest

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Originally Posted by Silcc69

It is so do think all of these protesters could fit in Tim's anus :whistle:

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Hahaha.. some funny shit right there

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Originally Posted by Faldur

I think the interviews they do with them on the street is hilarious. Not a one can articulate why they are even there. "Corporations are Evil!", wait let me check my iPhone for messages. There is more Corporate hardware there than at a GEEK conference.

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It's ludicrous to call corporations evil. They are rational, exceedingly rational. They're highly rational structures based on self interest.
Plus: they're amoral entities, as it were. They aren't -- and cannot -- be concerned about what's right or wrong. The issue of morality isn't what the corporate institution is about. Nor, again, can it be. The people down below, as it were, at the protests are simply referred to as: externalities. Or the cost to others. (Now when a bank makes a transaction they're simply calculating the cost to themselves. What they don't -- and can't -- take into account is the cost of that transaction on others. Or the risk to the system....)
The problem would be the inordinate power corporations have over supposedly democratic governments. I mean, everyone knows this. From Obama to Bill Gates.
But to say they're evil, again, is missing the point.
One can decry corporations as being undemocratic. Which they certainly are. And anti-democratic. (I mean, a corporation can be run by the shareholders. Not the CEO along with the board of directors. But the actual shareholders. But would that be rational???)

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Originally Posted by Ben

It's ludicrous to call corporations evil. They are rational, exceedingly rational. They're highly rational structures based on self interest.
Plus: they're amoral entities, as it were. They aren't -- and cannot -- be concerned about what's right or wrong. The issue of morality isn't what the corporate institution is about.

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I remember a very astute mind recently saying "corporations are people, too."

Mitt Romney - Corporations are People

Corporations are run by PEOPLE. By that standard they are anything but rational. Their apprehension towards the current POTUS who by most definitions has governed as a moderate conservative should prove this.

Obama has been 'corporate friendly' as all modern U.S. presidents have been, yet for some reason the corporate chieftans 'fear' Obama.

Corporations are amoral in the abstract, but rarely in practice since their decisions nearly always have a direct consequence, good or bad, on the lives of living human beings.

Capitalism as an economic paradigm is amoral, but never in practice.

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Corporations are run by PEOPLE. By that standard they are anything but rational. Their apprehension towards the current POTUS who by most definitions has governed as a moderate conservative should prove this.

Obama has been 'corporate friendly' as all modern U.S. presidents have been, yet for some reason the corporate chieftans 'fear' Obama.

Corporations are amoral in the abstract, but rarely in practice since their decisions nearly always have a direct consequence, good or bad, on the lives of living human beings.

Capitalism as an economic paradigm is amoral, but never in practice.

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^ This. Lightly regulated capitalism has historically provided us with the most economic growth. Over and under regulating has always created turmoil. The idea is to find a happy medium that is most beneficial to the greatest number of individual citizens. The Supremes screwed up big time in the ruling to which Romney is referring.

~BB~

http://www.bcove.me/zyyqxvhm

I am curious??? What would happen if Wall street was to decide to get up and leave the US? What if Wall street moved to China? I mean all the corporations from Walmart to Apple use Chinese to make their products, so the corporations are in a way already in China. What if wall street and maybe if it was possible, all corporations left the US and made their camps in China. How would we protest them if that happened. According to what some think, China is too powerful to demand anything from.

I am not knowledgeable on all the workings of wall street, but is it possible that wall street can actually move away? Is this doable? If they did move to China then they'd have the mighty power of China to protect them from protesters. I'm just saying maybe we better be careful on how much we want to push someone into a corner.

"Wall Street" has already moved. After 9/11 companies decentralized operations. New York started to lose primacy- many thought London would emerge as inheritor but that has quite happened.

In truth, our finance centers are on server farms. The fungibility of currency, not being backed by anything tangible, helps ensure that capital is mobile and can move as quick as a keystroke.

We will always have jobs centers, but Wall Street as we think of it is long gone. Just a symbol, really.

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Originally Posted by Yvonne183

I am curious??? What would happen if Wall street was to decide to get up and leave the US? What if Wall street moved to China? I mean all the corporations from Walmart to Apple use Chinese to make their products, so the corporations are in a way already in China. What if wall street and maybe if it was possible, all corporations left the US and made their camps in China. How would we protest them if that happened. According to what some think, China is too powerful to demand anything from.

I am not knowledgeable on all the workings of wall street, but is it possible that wall street can actually move away? Is this doable? If they did move to China then they'd have the mighty power of China to protect them from protesters. I'm just saying maybe we better be careful on how much we want to push someone into a corner.

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China's economy and business climate is even more regulated than our own. I mean, you can't even use Facebook there. What you're considering won't be a beneficial option as long as:

1) The U.S. remains the world's largest economy
2) The Chinese want to tell companies how to do business
3) The U.S. Dollar is the reserve currency
4) The U.S. Supreme Court holds that a corporation is a legal entity in the same sense as an individual human being

Also, China already has a stock exchange. What you're proposing isn't moving 'Wall Street,' but moving the corporate headquarters of the companies that do business there.

~BB~

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Originally Posted by MdR Dave

"Wall Street" has already moved. After 9/11 companies decentralized operations. New York started to lose primacy- many thought London would emerge as inheritor but that has quite happened.

In truth, our finance centers are on server farms. The fungibility of currency, not being backed by anything tangible, helps ensure that capital is mobile and can move as quick as a keystroke.

We will always have jobs centers, but Wall Street as we think of it is long gone. Just a symbol, really.

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If that is so, then why are the protesters down there? Maybe they should go somewhere else? is there somewhere else? I am not being mean or stupid, I really want to know how blocking streets on the Brooklyn bridge where Wall street no longer exists is going to hurt wall street corporations?

in a way this is sort of what i meant in my first posts about cry babies, if one wants to do any good then they should go to the source of the problem and from what i see,, wall street is not the place to have protests, all it seems to do is tie up traffic and cost lots of money for police.

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Originally Posted by BellaBellucci

China's economy and business climate is even more regulated than our own. I mean, you can't even use Facebook there. What you're considering won't be a beneficial option as long as:

1) The U.S. remains the world's largest economy
2) The Chinese want to tell companies how to do business
3) The U.S. Dollar is the reserve currency
4) The U.S. Supreme Court holds that a corporation is a legal entity in the same sense as an individual human being

Also, China already has a stock exchange. What you're proposing isn't moving 'Wall Street,' but moving the corporate headquarters of the companies that do business there.

~BB~

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That is my point,, corporations are already doing business in china whether it be Walmart or Apple, they already work under Chinese regulations, so they can completely leave the US for China cause for the most part, they are already there. And what the protesters want is more regulations on the corporations, so in a way maybe we'd have not much a different work environment than China. I know china has an exchange just like just about very country has, but it's not Wall street. I mean the whole concept, the whole la-schmeal just get up and leave for China, leaving an empty building in NYC.

I'm not much good at protesting but would it have been possible to organize people through social media to line up at BofA to withdraw their funds? Get a long enough line and the media will follow. Maybe handling just a tiny problem but it would be peaceful and without any help from gov't.

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Originally Posted by Yvonne183

If that is so, then why are the protesters down there? Maybe they should go somewhere else? is there somewhere else? I am not being mean or stupid, I really want to know how blocking streets on the Brooklyn bridge where Wall street no longer exists is going to hurt wall street corporations?

in a way this is sort of what i meant in my first posts about cry babies, if one wants to do any good then they should go to the source of the problem and from what i see,, wall street is not the place to have protests, all it seems to do is tie up traffic and cost lots of money for police.

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Like he said, they're trying to use the symbolic nature of Wall Street to their political advantage. It's not about hurting the companies directly, it's about raising their profile in the news cycles from which the mainstream media is intentionally cock-blocking them. Yesterday, for example, the story on CNN.com regarding this was at the bottom of the list of the U.S. page, when it really should be the top story of the entire site.

~BB~

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Originally Posted by BellaBellucci

1) The U.S. remains the world's largest economy
2) The Chinese want to tell companies how to do business
3) The U.S. Dollar is the reserve currency
4) The U.S. Supreme Court holds that a corporation is a legal entity in the same sense as an individual human being.
~BB~

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Number one is changing. Number two will likely never change. Number three could easily change unless we get our $hit squared away before the latest Basel agreement goes into effect in 2013.

And number 4? We could get rid of that if the people forced corporations to pay personal income tax rates and face personal liability (instead of hiding behind a corporate shield) for debt and wrongdoings. It's not just about campaign contributions- if corporations really want to (people let them!

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Originally Posted by Dino Velvet

I'm not much good at protesting but would it have been possible to organize people through social media to line up at BofA to withdraw their funds? Get a long enough line and the media will follow. Maybe handling just a tiny problem but it would be peaceful and without any help from gov't.

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That is more or less what i said way back in this thread,,, stop using the products of businesses that we feel are harmful or bad, like you said, with draw our money from BofA. That would be a much better way to get action than singing songs on a bridge. Boycott the products, one product at a time, but,, sigh,, how many people will stop buying an Iphone, how many people will stop buying gasoline,, probably not many.

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Originally Posted by Dino Velvet

I'm not much good at protesting but would it have been possible to organize people through social media to line up at BofA to withdraw their funds? Get a long enough line and the media will follow. Maybe handling just a tiny problem but it would be peaceful and without any help from gov't.

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Organizing a run on BoA would have gotten massive attention and would have had more impact.

Times like these make me miss George Carlin.

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Originally Posted by Yvonne183

That is my point,, corporations are already doing business in china whether it be Walmart or Apple, they already work under Chinese regulations, so they can completely leave the US for China cause for the most part, they are already there.

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Well it's a combination of everything I listed. But let me add something else: if American companies picked up and moved to China and shipped their goods back here, en masse, without a corporate presence in this country, the U.S. government might be forced to close the trade gap even faster, and in the end, a lot of companies that off-shore jobs and materials and then import their goods back here will see their competitive advantage lost through tariffs. At least in principle, that's how it should work anyway, not accounting for the spinelessness of Congress.

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Originally Posted by Yvonne183

And what the protesters want is more regulations on the corporations, so in a way maybe we'd have not much a different work environment than China. I know china has an exchange just like just about very country has, but it's not Wall street. I mean the whole concept, the whole la-schmeal just get up and leave for China, leaving an empty building in NYC.

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Again, if they move away, the pressure to compete in our economy might intensify, not lessen. There are a multitude of checks and balances that could be utilized to ensure that the average American is getting the best deal possible, but the issue has been and continues to be a lack of political will IMO, as this would force prices to rise, and we as the world's most consummate consumers and materialists just may not stand for that. :lol:

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Originally Posted by Yvonne183

That is more or less what i said way back in this thread,,, stop using the products of businesses that we feel are harmful or bad, like you said, with draw our money from BofA. That would be a much better way to get action than singing songs on a bridge. Boycott the products, one product at a time, but,, sigh,, how many people will stop buying an Iphone, how many people will stop buying gasoline,, probably not many.

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Exactly. We need the products. It's no excuse for those who make them to gouge us. The problem, as I stated, is that we as Americans are broke (cheap?) and don't want to pay more for products made here, so as a result, eventually we could ending paying more for products made over there. Lovely.

~BB~

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Originally Posted by Merkurie

Organizing a run on BoA would have gotten massive attention and would have had more impact.

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Makes sense to me. I realize some people might suffer penalties but that's the price you pay sometimes. BofA won't care about their customers unless they're forced to. The Hope & Change train isn't coming by to save anybody but they will accept campaign donations from BofA. You're on your own as Americans. Respect is everlasting but fear and intimidation leads to the penitentiary. Be peaceful and civil always playing the long game.

US corporations had to give up all of their plant plans, designs, etc. to sell in China. Short term bottom line positive, your stock price goes up. CEO keeps their job for another 3 years before splitting with 50m in stock. Stockholders w00t.

Long term. Chinese government businesses open with the same plans, designs, etc., all with cheaper labor (slave?) from the provinces (HTC?). NYSE stock prices go down. Next CEO loses their job.

Short term. We care because our 401Ks depend on investment. We are as greedy/needy as the executives.
Long term. You want 薯条 with that?

Fucking clowns.

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Originally Posted by otherguy

US corporations had to give up all of their plant plans, designs, etc. to sell in China. Short term bottom line positive, your stock price goes up. CEO keeps their job for another 3 years before splitting with 50m in stock. Stockholders w00t.

Long term. Chinese government businesses open with the same plans, designs, etc., all with cheaper labor (slave?) from the provinces (HTC?). NYSE stock prices go down. Next CEO loses their job.

Short term. We care because our 401Ks depend on investment. We are as greedy/needy as the executives.
Long term. You want 薯条 with that?

Fucking clowns.

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Precisely. And do you know what the prevailing attitude is on the part of U.S. companies? 'If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.' This article about GE is only 4 days old:

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/20...eing-left-out/

It's ridiculous. Whatever happened to American ingenuity in capitalism? Are we even trying anymore? :?

~BB~

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Originally Posted by BellaBellucci

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...45866116_n.jpg

See? Anybody can do it.

~BB~

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Canada = shitty music.

Like Leonard Cohen, KD Lang, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Gordon Lightfoot, Ron Sexsmith, Richard Shindell and The Band

Oh, yes. THAT shitty music. And I'll bet most of you dumbass yanks didn't even know that all these guys and many more were in fact Canadian.

And they have free healthcare too. Must be horrible.

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

Canada = shitty music.

Like Leonard Cohen, KD Lang, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Gordon Lightfoot, Ron Sexsmith, Richard Shindell and The Band

Oh, yes. THAT shitty music. And I'll bet most of you dumbass yanks didn't even know that all these guys and many more were in fact Canadian.

And they have free healthcare too. Must be horrible.

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Hey, I didn't draw this. I just thought the stereotypes were funny. :lol:

... and you forgot Alanis Morissette.

Dogma - Alanis Morissette Is God - YouTube

~BB~

I have another question that maybe the dumbass Europeans here can answer for me.

Does Europe have a higher tax on the rich than the US has? Does Europe have stricter regulations on corporations than the US has? Then why is Europe failing economically when they are already doing what these protesters want done here in the US?
And on the other hand if Europe doesn't have a higher tax for the rich and stricter regulations of corporations then why is the US the evil ones?

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Originally Posted by BellaBellucci

Hey, I didn't draw this. I just thought the stereotypes were funny. :lol:

... and you forgot Alanis Morissette.

Dogma - Alanis Morissette Is God - YouTube

~BB~

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I didn't forget. That was deliberate. :dancing:

Oh, and I "forgot" Avril Lavigne as well..... :)

But I did genuinely forget Kate and Anna McGarrigle. :Bowdown:

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

I didn't forget. That was deliberate. :dancing:

Oh, and I "forgot" Avril Lavigne as well..... :)

But I did genuinely forget Kate and Anna McGarrigle. :Bowdown:

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Who? :?

Also, Red Rider. :dancing:

Red Rider - Lunatic Fringe (DEEP & WIDE Stereo Remix !!) - YouTube

Tom Cochrane - Life Is A Highway - YouTube

... and how could I forget this lady? I named myself after her:

Sarah McLachlan - World on Fire - YouTube

~BB~

Shania Twain was another "omission"

Yeah, maybe there is some shitty music over there lol.

WILLIAM SHATNER SINGS O CANADA - YouTube

What aboot Anvil you hosers?!?!?

Anvil-Metal On Metal (Official Music Video) - YouTube

[QUOTE=Dino Velvet;1020013]What aboot Anvil you hosers?!?!?

Weren't they the guys whose movie made Spinal Tap look like the real thing?

More from Canada. Take off, eh?

Rush 2112 (Full Song) - YouTube

STRAPPING YOUNG LAD - SYL (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

Weren't they the guys whose movie made Spinal Tap look like the real thing?

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Yes sir.:cheers:

I'm sorry but they (Anvil that is) suck.

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Originally Posted by Merkurie

I'm sorry but they (Anvil that is) suck.

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They suck in the most awesome rockin' way ever! I'll admit they're not the second coming of Sabbath though.

Black Sabbath - black Sabbath - original videoclip - YouTube

Is Rush entirely Canadian or is it just G Lee? Regardless, good counterpoint to Bachman Turner Overdrive.

Has anyone mentioned Alanis Morissette or Robin Sparkles?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=...&v=H90MJTO4wZo

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Originally Posted by MdR Dave

Is Rush entirely Canadian or is it just G Lee? Regardless, good counterpoint to Bachman Turner Overdrive.

Has anyone mentioned Alanis Morissette or Robin Sparkles?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=...&v=H90MJTO4wZo

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I tried very hard NOT to mention Alanis Morisette......

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Originally Posted by MdR Dave

Is Rush entirely Canadian or is it just G Lee? Regardless, good counterpoint to Bachman Turner Overdrive.

Has anyone mentioned Alanis Morissette or Robin Sparkles?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=...&v=H90MJTO4wZo

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All Canadian.

Geddy Lee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alex Lifeson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Neil Peart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

I tried very hard NOT to mention Alanis Morisette......

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I would only mention her as part of the Robin Sparkles camp. . .

You mentioned Gordon Lightfoot earlier- I have mixed feelings (depending on current heartbreak levels) but he is awesome- very evocative. "Sundown"? You can taste the whiskey through your ears. . .

I recently obtained a Warlocks studio demo (one of the precursors to Grateful Dead)- they covered "Early Morning Rain"!

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Originally Posted by MdR Dave

I would only mention her as part of the Robin Sparkles camp. . .

You mentioned Gordon Lightfoot earlier- I have mixed feelings (depending on current heartbreak levels) but he is awesome- very evocative. "Sundown"? You can taste the whiskey through your ears. . .

I recently obtained a Warlocks studio demo (one of the precursors to Grateful Dead)- they covered "Early Morning Rain"!

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So did I in my early days! Lightfoot had one of the finest voices ever in his prime. There are also plenty of great Canadian singer-songwriters who don't cross the border, Dave. Try Sarah Harmer and David Francey.

Michael Buble