Muslims

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onmyknees

Let me put it to you this way....I don't dislike anyone on here. These are political, ideological discussions, and they should be passionate. But you're a first....I find myself loathing you to the point of rejoicing in your demise. Maybe I need confession? LMAO ...I looked back at some of your posts.....The vast majority of them are on 2 subjects.. your vociferous, rigorous defense of Muslims...all Muslims, or your frequent Christian bashing. Other than that, you're pretty much a blank slate. On posts on the General board, you're almost non existent. On posts that many participate in like Kelly Shore's "Tell us a little about yourself" or Where are you from"....you're a no show as far as I can tell....correct me if I'm wrong. Why are you here? What's your deal? You definitely have a problem with Christians to the point of bigotry. This post really isn't an attempt to solicit a response. You're whole gig is pretty revolting and very predictable so save it....I'm not interested. You're persona non grata. :fu:

---

That’s awesome. So here you are, a follower of Christ, the Prince of Peace, daydreaming about the joy you’ll feel when another human being is killed. And why are you wishing death upon another human being? Because I hurt your pride by calling you a dummy on the Internet? Isn’t pride a sin, too? You’re a terrible spokesman for the alleged moral superiority of Christianity.

The blank slate is between your ears. It’s not actually all that complicated. I have a job, so I don’t have an enormous amount of time to spend chit-chatting on an Internet porn forum. But ignorance and hypocrisy really drive me ape-shit, and having served in the Middle East and conducted research in other Muslim countries, I actually know a little bit about political Islam, unlike you.

I don’t really understand what my post history here has to do with anything. I’ve discussed my background on several occasions and have made no real attempt to hide who I am or what I do. If you’d actually obsessively tracked down my posts as you claim, you’d have a pretty clear idea of where I’m coming from. But either you haven’t done that, or you’re cognitively impaired, because you continue to misunderstand my fairly simple points:

1. Religion – Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, etc. – represents a significant impediment to human progress. At best, religion represents a preference for the irrational over the rational, and at worst, it inspires hatred and tribalism.
2. The religious extremism that inspires that hatred and tribalism represents only a tiny minority of the adherents of any given faith. Condemning the group for the actions of a few is called bigotry.
3. Extremism is common to all religions. Obsessively cataloging the atrocities committed by extremists of one faith while steadfastly refusing to even acknowledge the existence of extremists within your own faith is hypocrisy.

OK, now you get to totally devastate me by reposting all the times I've mounted a "vociferous, rigorous defense of Muslims"... :whistle:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thombergeron

1. Religion – Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, etc. – represents a significant impediment to human progress. At best, religion represents a preference for the irrational over the rational, and at worst, it inspires hatred and tribalism.
2. The religious extremism that inspires that hatred and tribalism represents only a tiny minority of the adherents of any given faith. Condemning the group for the actions of a few is called bigotry.
3. Extremism is common to all religions. Obsessively cataloging the atrocities committed by extremists of one faith while steadfastly refusing to even acknowledge the existence of extremists within your own faith is hypocrisy.

---

Very well said Thom. I have tried on many occasions to offer the exact meaning you have expressed with those 3 points. Of course the right wingers are racist at heart, and can not see beyond 2 dimensional thinking. They only know the extremes: Black and white, hot and cold, up or down.... They are blind to every aspect in between. And if the evidence you provide does not support their theory, they use their poor imagination to bolster their viewpoint. The worse part is, they think we are all stupid enough to believe it.

Thanks for making those points so clear, accurate, and eloquently. Good post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thombergeron

Yep. Remember when a bunch of Jews celebrated Baruch Goldstein shooting up a mosque full of people praying? Killed 29 people and wounded over 120 others?

Hundreds of Jews Gather To Honor Hebron Killer

Of course, by your standard, this means that all Jews everywhere and forever are in favor of gunning down praying people.

---

Knees, I've got to give credit to Thom on this one. Only here in America are people so stupid as to continue looking sideways at people who they assume are Arabs, when Muslims come in all different races and creeds. Creeds is probably most important, because despite many assuming all Muslims want to destroy America, I personally know many who have come here to escape the fundamentalist element in their countries of origin and are employed as professionals (mainly doctors) here in the US.

Meanwhile, we have imbeciles who have neither the mental capacity, love of freedom, or courage of the individuals they are so quick to throw in the same group. This forum is a microcosm of that very fact. I would not be surprised to find some of the people bashing Muslims in this very thread to be members of militant anti-government or neo-Nazi organizations, but I am intelligent enough not to lump you in with them despite some similar themes in some of what you've said. That ability is what seperates us from the Neanderthal, or at least some of us.

I am amazed at you American liberals and how you ignore the problems of massed muslim immigration to Europe.England alone has so many terrorist plots from their muslim population that i am surprised that their security service can monitor all of them.There is a constant cry from their muslim population for muslim law and you liberal/ostrich's cant see a problem.

I'm surprised that all the focus on Islamic terrorism in the US assumes that the terrorists are all Arabs. In terms of population the three largest Muslim nations are Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia. Pakistan in its currently febrile and fragmented state is arguably infinitely more dangerous to the west than anything that emanates from the middle east.

The CIA and MI6 understand this, but it has next to no public profile, despite the fact that almost all the terrorist plots in the UK and Europe have a strong involvement with Pakistan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thombergeron

That’s awesome. So here you are, a follower of Christ, the Prince of Peace, daydreaming about the joy you’ll feel when another human being is killed. And why are you wishing death upon another human being? Because I hurt your pride by calling you a dummy on the Internet? Isn’t pride a sin, too? You’re a terrible spokesman for the alleged moral superiority of Christianity.

The blank slate is between your ears. It’s not actually all that complicated. I have a job, so I don’t have an enormous amount of time to spend chit-chatting on an Internet porn forum. But ignorance and hypocrisy really drive me ape-shit, and having served in the Middle East and conducted research in other Muslim countries, I actually know a little bit about political Islam, unlike you.

I don’t really understand what my post history here has to do with anything. I’ve discussed my background on several occasions and have made no real attempt to hide who I am or what I do. If you’d actually obsessively tracked down my posts as you claim, you’d have a pretty clear idea of where I’m coming from. But either you haven’t done that, or you’re cognitively impaired, because you continue to misunderstand my fairly simple points:

1. Religion – Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, etc. – represents a significant impediment to human progress. At best, religion represents a preference for the irrational over the rational, and at worst, it inspires hatred and tribalism.
2. The religious extremism that inspires that hatred and tribalism represents only a tiny minority of the adherents of any given faith. Condemning the group for the actions of a few is called bigotry.
3. Extremism is common to all religions. Obsessively cataloging the atrocities committed by extremists of one faith while steadfastly refusing to even acknowledge the existence of extremists within your own faith is hypocrisy.

OK, now you get to totally devastate me by reposting all the times I've mounted a "vociferous, rigorous defense of Muslims"... :whistle:

---

Man...where you been? It was so nice without your endless lectures on tolerance towards Muslims and your Christian bashing. That post is so old, I almost don't remember making it....but I still dislike you...time has not healed that wound !


You really don't understand what your post history has to do with anything>???? That's the most inane thing I've ever heard , and the funniest. It defines who you are and what you believe....Like I said before...you're a basher, a hater...but you fancy yourself as being enlightened ...informed...telling us how you served in the middle east and your deep understaning of Islam. Who gives a fuck about your bio? You're still an shithead who thinks he knows more than he does.... I've been there too but I don't walk around telling the fucking world about it. Try those stories on your co-workers. maybe they'll be impressed. Now...as a for that job of yours...I think they're calling you back to work. Hope to see you in 6 months...But not to worry....even when you return you're still persona non grata...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by russtafa

I am amazed at you American liberals and how you ignore the problems of massed muslim immigration to Europe.England alone has so many terrorist plots from their muslim population that i am surprised that their security service can monitor all of them.There is a constant cry from their muslim population for muslim law and you liberal/ostrich's cant see a problem.

---

russtafa stop spreading your paranoia and prejudice... if you are from Aus i would be much more concerned about abbos commiting knife crimes there as that is much much more likely to happen in your country than terrorist plot..
xxo

England alone has so many terrorist plots from their muslim population that i am surprised that their security service can monitor all of them.There is a constant cry from their muslim population for muslim law and you liberal/ostrich's cant see a problem

Most of the 'plots' as you call them that were prevented by the police relied on information that came from the very same 'Muslim community'. The Muslims in the UK who want to live under Shari'a law are a minority and most of them are grandstanding as Jihadis because they have nothing else to do, or to impress people 'back home' and so on -yes, there are threats and I don't doubt one or two might get under the radar, but the atrocities that have been committed have alienated more Muslims than they have converted.

There is a complexity to the Muslim profile in the UK, most of whom are from the Indian sub-continent and have poor relations with, for example, the Arabs who are not amused at the fact that their brother Muslims cannot speak a word of Arabic but can recite passages from the Qu'ran. One Arab I knew pleaded with me to find him a kosher butcher because he felt he was being ripped off by the Halal butchers from the Indian sub-continent. The same Arab, when introduced to an Iranian, went sullen and silent, while the Somali's many of whom have been established for a long time have their own radical enthusiasts but can also be decent people -an English couple sailing the world in their yacht, hi-jacked by pirates and held in appalling conditions in Somalia, were released through the efforts of a Somali-born taxi driver who gave up his job here and went back to the country to negotiate their release -putting his own life in danger.

As I have said before, there will always be a lunatic fringe, but they are a fringe, and most of them are 'known to the authorities'...

I've been involved in a big project looking at the orofie of Muslims in the UK and I would fully endorse the remarks just posted by Stavros. Militant Islam in the UK reflects the concerns of a tiny minority. There are a few idiotic loudmouths (like Anjem Choudhary) who reflect nothing - and who have just a tiny coterie of immature and rather silly followers.The reaction in Europe against Muslims (Burka bans in France, minaret bans in Switzerland, the rise of the far right in Holland and elsewhere etc etc) are vastly out of proportion to any real threat posed by islam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by russtafa

I am amazed at you American liberals and how you ignore the problems of massed muslim immigration to Europe.England alone has so many terrorist plots from their muslim population that i am surprised that their security service can monitor all of them.There is a constant cry from their muslim population for muslim law and you liberal/ostrich's cant see a problem.

---

Well aren't you easily amazed...

We Americans aren't Europeans, or Brits. Since we don't have much of a problem with the American Muslim population, it's hard not to assume that the European & eurocentric problems are just a consequence of their own attitudes. Especially when taking the rants of the eurocentric hate mongers into account.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hippifried

Well aren't you easily amazed...

We Americans aren't Europeans, or Brits. Since we don't have much of a problem with the American Muslim population, it's hard not to assume that the European & eurocentric problems are just a consequence of their own attitudes. Especially when taking the rants of the eurocentric hate mongers into account.

---

hippie i miss your rubbish ,where have you been at a liberal protest seminar. lol

Nah. I was getting a head start on brainwashing the next generation.

Way to go hippie, you point those kid's in the right direction

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by russtafa

I am amazed at you American liberals and how you ignore the problems of massed muslim immigration to Europe.England alone has so many terrorist plots from their muslim population that i am surprised that their security service can monitor all of them.There is a constant cry from their muslim population for muslim law and you liberal/ostrich's cant see a problem.

---

\
Also keep in mind, that there are huge, unlimited profits, and absolute power, for others by keeping you/us in fear. On 9/10/01 Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, anounced that there was maybe a trillion dollars of unaccounted money spent by his dept of defense. The very next day, it was all forgotten and the public was ready to give more money, with no questions asked.

And another thing, no 'liberal' wants to protect criminal activity. Legal rights are for the protection of the innocent. I come from a community where innocent people have too often been targeted by the police. People who dont commit crimes are entitled to certain rights, period.

Word from London that Paris H. converted to islamic :praying:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by envivision

Word from London that Paris H. converted to islamic :praying:

---

Let's hope she goes for the full burqua and shuts the fuck up, then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robertlouis

Let's hope she goes for the full burqua and shuts the fuck up, then.

---

Thought Paris burkas were illegal. Oh well. She can cover her hair & go nekkid.

Here's an article from this week's New Statesman magazine in the UK, where a quran-burner has just been jailed for 70 days in Carlisle. Personally, I'm proud to live in a society that recognises that there should be some constraint on free speech when it involves active incitement towards hatred and violence and idiots like Pastor Jones can carry on with their insanity, knowing exactly what it will provoke. Jail the fucker.

"If you burn a Quran you should go to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect £100.

Sorry if that sounds a bit intolerant. Brashly illiberal. But these happy arsonists who think it's a giggle to torch a religious text and screw the consequences aren't averse to a bit of brash intolerance themselves.

Actually that's not right. It's not that they're averse to the consequences. They're all too aware of them. Social division and disorder are the ends, a box of matches, jerrycan of petrol and Waterstone's discount card the means.

At the weekend the BNP joined the list of those endorsing this particularly pernicious branch of DIY. The Observer was passed a video showing a "Sion Owens, 40, from south Wales and a candidate for the forthcoming Welsh Assembly elections, soaking the Quran in kerosene and setting fire to it".

The reaction from the Welsh police was swift: "We always adopt an extremely robust approach to allegations of this sort and find this sort of intolerance unacceptable in our society." Owens was arrested, charged and subsequently released, though he was informed that "investigations were continuing and that "almost certainly other proceedings will ensue".

Good. Nicking Nazi pyromaniacs is what I want my police to be doing. It's what we all want our police to be doing, isn't it?

Apparently not. According to Alex Massie in the Spectator, "even goons and other dreadful people have rights and these should include the right to burn books in their garden". And the Tory MEP Daniel Hannan believes that burning the Quran "makes you a dummkopf, not a criminal . . . Some other countries fight false ideas with the force of law. We should fight them with truth."

Actually Daniel, we should fight them with both.
Think of a motive

Those who defend Quran-burning on the basis of free speech miss the point. For a start, it's not free. It requires someone to go out, buy a book, buy petrol (not even cheap at the moment, never mind free), light it, film the whole thing and then distribute the proceedings to whatever little clique they call their friends, or more widely on YouTube or some other "social" medium. This is an overt, conscious action, motivated by malign intent. It is not the product of open, free-spirited discourse, but an aggressive, premeditated provocation.

Nor is it actually speech. It's not opening a dialogue or building an argument. Quite the opposite. It's a deliberate act of destruction; the destruction of a dialogue and argument constructed by others. If you don't like Islam, fine. Write a book about why. Don't burn one.

Those who see the heavy hand of the law as a disproportionate response to this act of bibliophobia are themselves losing perspective.

It's not just the action, it's the consequences. We know what Quran-burning leads to. In the past couple of weeks it has resulted in innocent people being murdered and maimed. It's increased the threat to British and western troops serving overseas. It's boosted the Taliban and other terrorist organisations.

If our laws do not exist to prevent people from deliberately engaging in actions and activity that incite others to murder, propagate international terrorism and lay the seeds of civil disorder, what are they for?

We have laws to protect a book's copyright. We have laws to protect the intellectual rights of the person who wrote and published it. But we shouldn't have laws to prevent that book being treated in a manner that leads to half a dozen people being decapitated?

Hannan writes that anyone who burned a Quran would argue that they are "not to blame for any bloody consequences and, in a sense, this is true: any retaliation will be entirely the responsibility of its perpetrators". But the law does not hold to account solely those who perpetrate the final criminal act. That's why it's not just illegal to use a firearm, or drugs, but also illegal to supply them.
Brag all about it

There are always difficulties in drawing a line between rights and responsibilities, but Quran-burning seems a good place to start.

There's an old saying that free speech doesn't extend to running into a theatre and shouting, "Fire!"

Personally, I think it depends on context. I haven't got a problem with someone doing that, so long as there's no one else in there, or it's a production by Tim Rice.

It's the same principle. If you have a desperate urge to put the Quran, or any other book, to the flame, and you do so in genuine privacy, then I suppose there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it, because we won't be any the wiser.

But if you brag about it, or taunt others with it, or use it as a weapon to prosecute your war of intolerance and prejudice, don't be surprised if you suddenly find a few members of Her Majesty's Constabulary on your doorstep.

You know the game that you're playing. Please spare us the crocodile tears when you lose."

I would love to ban all religion but you would be going against millions of weak people that need it like a junkie need's drugs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by russtafa

I would love to ban all religion but you would be going against millions of weak people that need it like a junkie needs drugs

---

:iagree:See we agree on something. I keep telling you we are on the same side.:iagree:

But! Go into our deep south to right wing America and say that remark. You won't leave without severe bodily damage.

I think all current religions will slowly die off in the future. The question is, what will replace them? The sentiment to worship something seems to be a constant throughout human history.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theone1982

I think all current religions will slowly die off in the future. The question is, what will replace them? The sentiment to worship something seems to be a constant throughout human history.

---

Well, Marx said that religion is the opium of the masses.

Nowadays opium is the religion of the masses.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robertlouis

Well, Marx said that religion is the opium of the masses.

Nowadays opium is the religion of the masses.....

---

Lol! That might be true!:)
YouTube - Family Guy - Passion Of The Christ 2 Crusify This

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theone1982

Lol! That might be true!:)
YouTube - Family Guy - Passion Of The Christ 2 Crusify This

---

I'm telling you, it's everywhere.

This religious thing for muslims and christians is self perpetuating and wont fade away

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theone1982

I think all current religions will slowly die off in the future. The question is, what will replace them? The sentiment to worship something seems to be a constant throughout human history.

---

Sentiment to worship? I'm thinking that the "sentiment" is just curiosity. Humans have been asking abstract questions for thousands of years. By contrast, we've only been able to access answers with any accuracy for the last couple of centuries. Worship has just become a habit, because it's only recently that there's been an alternative. Just sayin'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hippifried

Sentiment to worship? I'm thinking that the "sentiment" is just curiosity. Humans have been asking abstract questions for thousands of years. By contrast, we've only been able to access answers with any accuracy for the last couple of centuries. Worship has just become a habit, because it's only recently that there's been an alternative. Just sayin'.

---

Fair point. Although I think there will always be a "fetishistic" aspect to human nature, even if it comes to down to something as simple as someone's favorite shirt. Just because there is access to answers doesn't mean everyone will take the logical course.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hippifried

Sentiment to worship? I'm thinking that the "sentiment" is just curiosity. Humans have been asking abstract questions for thousands of years. By contrast, we've only been able to access answers with any accuracy for the last couple of centuries. Worship has just become a habit, because it's only recently that there's been an alternative. Just sayin'.

---

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Although the fundamentalists in the bible belt - who are the best haters on the planet - might beg to disagree.

You might want to go ex-directory, hippi.

We in Australia have nothing like these Bible bashing weirdo's lol

A fetish is just an extended aspect of curiosity. Old habits die hard, & there's thousands of years of repitition of the only explanation anybody could come up with to explain our existence & mortality. Memes tend to take on a life of their own, & will try to survive. All social changes take time. Multiple generations. But all things change sooner or later.

Christianity was the first proselytizing religion. The pagan religions died off because they were crowded out by the ever expanding "good news" of Christianity. Islam too is a proselytizing religion and it is currently displacing the less aggressive flora and fauna in the Southeast Asia. I don't think aggressively proselytizing religions like Christianity and Islam are likely to die out until some far far future date. More likely they will continue to schism and mutate into more and more bizarre sects (Mormons, Ahmadiyya etc.). Some of these sects will diverge so extravagantly form the main branches they will come to be regarded as new religions. If a new species is even more aggressive than the original it may displace the original. If every Christian on Earth eventually converted to some polyandrous, polytheistic, mutation of Mormonism called Quixillism, will you say that Christianity died or that it lives on through Quixillism?

I would love to see a day where all this silly, yet dangerous nonsense would just peter out and go away. One would think that reason and art would be sufficient to fascinate and soothe the human soul. But apparently not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by russtafa

We in Australia have nothing like these Bible bashing weirdo's lol

---

Really? One of the items on my bucket list is to attend a service at Hillsong, Sidney.

http://loveworldchristiannetwork.org...ures/12022.jpg

We in Australia have nothing like these Bible bashing weirdo's lol
What about Mel Gibson's father, didn't he develop some of his whacky alternatives to Catholicism in Sydney?

Yeah but nobody pays attention to these nut jobs.Religion is thought to be very uncool in Aus

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by russtafa

Yeah but nobody pays attention to these nut jobs.Religion is thought to be very uncool in Aus

---

omg i honestly hope you are a troll at this point russtafa.. or you are a total nihilist. if you want to fight against something useful protest abbos in Aus..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robertlouis

...Those who defend Quran-burning on the basis of free speech miss the point. For a start, it's not free. It requires someone to go out, buy a book, buy petrol (not even cheap at the moment, never mind free), light it, film the whole thing and then distribute the proceedings to whatever little clique they call their friends, or more widely on YouTube or some other "social" medium. This is an overt, conscious action, motivated by malign intent. It is not the product of open, free-spirited discourse, but an aggressive, premeditated provocation.

Nor is it actually speech. It's not opening a dialogue or building an argument. Quite the opposite. It's a deliberate act of destruction; the destruction of a dialogue and argument constructed by others. If you don't like Islam, fine. Write a book about why. Don't burn one.

...

---

Good post. I felt that this part should be re-highlighted. And it supports my beliefs on the current situation. Islam and all religions are ideas. The way to influence ideas, is with other ideas. Burning a Koran does just the opposite, by shutting down dialogue.

In some recent months I became involved in an intense debate, about the meaning, of passages in the Koran. I was able to find passages about humane treatment of women, children and the elderly, and prohibition against killing. One passage even says there should be no compulsion in religion! There are many passages however, that talk about war and punishment, both by man and by God. But these can be reframed, by looking at the context, of the specific situation, and that of more universal principles. I see large parts of the Koran as being about the very specific things going on with the Prophet's life. What is specific to the situation, and what are more universal principles, have always been the subject of debate, and scholarship among Muslims. General ideas have changed over time, and schools of thought, grow or diminish over the centuries.

This is why I see understanding and dialogue as the answers to the issues of today. And it makes a difference, what non-Muslims believe about Islam, because I see all thought, as part of a general human conscienous. These thoughts influence our beliefs in how we live our everyday lives. An example would be the current understanding that the world is round.

Maybe sometime we could get to the discussion of actual ideas within religions, and their meaning for our lives. For example I believe that the stories in the Bible are more important as allegories, rather than historical accuracy.

So as far the original post, you can see, why I believe that Koran burning is definitely the wrong approach to human solutions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsnajwa

omg i honestly hope you are a troll at this point russtafa.. or you are a total nihilist. if you want to fight against something useful protest abbos in Aus..

---

What are you talking about.Are you for real:confused:

Why do we have two threads talking about the same thing? Can we get back on manbearpig or something?

http://www.ptgustan.com/jul07/koranflush.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yodajazz

Good post. I felt that this part should be re-highlighted. And it supports my beliefs on the current situation. Islam and all religions are ideas. The way to influence ideas, is with other ideas. Burning a Koran does just the opposite, by shutting down dialogue.

---

What if one is not interested in dialogue? How many times have you heard someone make a statement and end it with "case closed" or "period, end of sentence"? These people are not interested in dialoguing... They've spoken on the issue, and are done with it. Dialogue is not necessary to legitimize speech. Accordingly, if I burn a Quran, I have "spoken" as to my thoughts on the Quran. In all likelihood, if I were interested in dialoguing about it I would have taken another route, and while the manner I choose may offend some, it is still my right as an American to choose that manner.

Clearly, this is something that is hard for some people from other countries to understand, but then we don't have the same governmental systems. Now then... What is the relevance of an American criticizing on the parliamentary system of government unless he has lived under such a system and thus has an actual point of reference? Everything he says would be hypothetical or theoretical. This is similarly the relevance of the 2nd Amendment being criticized by an Englishman who may never have been to the US, has never been subject to US law, and based on what he has said himself, doesn't have any right to free speech as it is defined in the US, speaking on any topic dealing with the US government or law. Feel free to continue to do so to your heart's desire, but recognize that only one of us has any actual right to do so under the laws of our respective governments.

I do agree though that Quran burning is not free speech, but again, I define this in the American manner as opposed to the reasons mentioned, which is to say that it's not free because Americans have died, are dying, and will die for us to continue to enjoy that right here. It would be nice, given that Americans also died to liberate people in other nations, if they could enjoy those same rights, but when people don't value freedom, what can you do?

muslims want to dominate the cultures they settle in and overwhelm that culture