There is a difference between an idea and a plan, Ray.Quote:
Originally Posted by raybbaby
Beyond that, I'd like to see a link to the study/survey that indicates 70% support.
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There is a difference between an idea and a plan, Ray.Quote:
Originally Posted by raybbaby
Beyond that, I'd like to see a link to the study/survey that indicates 70% support.
I'm sorry to hear of your illness, yosi.Quote:
Originally Posted by yosi
However, I have a friend here in the US who was diagnosed with cancer just a little over two years ago. He was out of work, with no insurance and about to lose his apartment. He was operated on and currently receives health care benefits and treatment from governmental sources. He was declared disabled and is on Social Security disability. He was able to keep his apartment.
So you can see that, in America, the exact same outcome can result.
I ask you what President Bush had done at this point in his first term. The answer is very little. President Obama has done quite a bit and is trying to do more. If Bush had pushed as many programs in his first days in office as Obama has, there would have been a similar backlash. As it was, there were already people who wouldn't cut him any slack because of Florida 2000.Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
Why's the US in Iraq then?Quote:
Originally Posted by duplicatt
Bullshit and if you live in DC and have seen other marches you know it's bullshit. The most reliable sources put the numbers at 70 thousand tops. Other networks (besides Fox) did indeed cover the march and they gave it amount of coverage it deserved. Hey, I bet you have a big dick too.Quote:
I live in DC, and if the protesters numbered in excess of a million
Did you read my post, Trish??
I never said I thought the numbers were approaching a million protesters.
But I would not be surprised if the actual number was north of 70,000 because of the unusual way in which the protesters gathered.
They weren't lined up vertically along the Mall, the tea-baggers were fanned out horizontally in front of the Capitol. I've never seen that before.
I put the top end number possibly around 250,000.
If you click the C-SPAN link I posted and watch the first few seconds where they pan across the crowd, you'll see what I mean.
Also, the DC Park Service is notorious for underestimating actual crowd sizes. Take a look at the photos from the Million Man March, DCPS said there were about 500,000 people there, and yet that demonstration had spillover all the way to the Washington Monument which would have made it much closer to 800,000 to a million attendees.
Right. Obama should damn near be impeached for saving the global economy from collapse, sending out a life preserver to the U.S. auto industry and attempting to reform the outrageous failure of the private heath care industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by duplicatt
Obama is a very BAD MAN. :roll:
You conservatives are permanently out lunch!!!
My bad :oops:
I hope you and your dick accept my apology.
Still luv ya anyway, Trish!!
No apology necessary.
Obviously, I need to give this infuriating topic a rest. Thanks for being a good sport.
That million estimate came from the white house. It was BEFORE the protests started and probably meant to scare up a bunch of counterprotesters. If you don't consider the Washington Post reliable, I would ignore their estimate, which was 200k.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Conservatives are finally learning how to organize a protest...
It's in doubt whether or not the stimulus package or the auto bailout will do any good, and we're just talking about the U.S. crisis. Obama was criticised by the Europeans and the Russians for his handling of the crisis, and they didn't copy America's plan for handling it.Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
It's too early to say Obama is "ruining" everything. I think his biggest mistake thus far has been the scrapping of the "Third Base" missile defense plan. The Auto Industry bailout could be a domestic failure, because Chrysler was in dire straits before the banking crisis, and is held by a private company to begin with.
It's in doubt whether or not the stimulus package or the auto bailout will do any good, and we're just talking about the U.S. crisis. Obama was criticised by the Europeans and the Russians for his handling of the crisis, and they didn't copy America's plan for handling it.Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
It's too early to say Obama is "ruining" everything. I think his biggest mistake thus far has been the scrapping of the "Third Base" missile defense plan. The Auto Industry bailout could be a domestic failure, because Chrysler was in dire straits before the banking crisis, and is held by a private company to begin with.
What do you mean? Do you think they were an ally when we invaded?Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycanuck
How did President Obama save the world economy? A lot of the stimulus money has even been spent yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
And didn't most of the sales in the Cash For Clunkers program go to foreign nameplates?
I've already shown that the US has the longest life expectancy if you adjust for accidents and murders. How is the US health care system a failure if that is true?
What were they doing to the US?Quote:
Originally Posted by duplicatt
They were living on top of our oil, damnit Jay!
haha! That's the answer I wanted to hear! Heaven forbid they took those billions spent on the war and develop new energy sources. But...silly me, I'm sure it wasn't about oil. :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by raybbaby
New Zealand citizen here, lived in Australia too - great socialized healthcare in those countries. I live in San Diego CA now and my health care cost goes up every year while I have never made a claim, I am in perfect health and in my early 30s. I see a corporate health care system in the US that is good as long as you can pay for it. I also see healthcare costs going unregulated to keep climbing to a point that many of the average will not be able to afford it in the next 10 or 20 years.
One of my good friends needed a kidney transplant, they denied him over and over again until he showed up at the medical review board looking like a zombie. $1,000,000 operation later and a total medical bankrupsy and he is fine. I think his cost with health insurance was somewhere around $250,000. Why should he be bankrupt if he had medical insurance?
I think Americans are confused when they say they do not trust government on healthcare. To clear up the air the politicians are not the ones that actually operate on you. Doctors and Hospitals are a different system than government, they are there to care for the sick not to decide if you are eligable for insurance or not. Let the doctors do their thing and the poloticians do their thing, provide funding and your care will not be in the hands of the government.
I say go universal health care in the USA and even cover medical procedures on transgender people! If the system falls apart then we will go back to what is there now. Like the metric system Americans are a bunch of dumb asses to think that their system is somehow better than every other westernized country. I want to run for president and do one thing while in office - bring the metric system to the United States! From then on no one will be able to manufacture a new product in "standard" measurment (replacement "standard" products will have to be tolerated). Am I wrong? I mean what is easier to remember: 14mm comes after 13mm or 9/16" comes after 1/2"??? Or is it easier to remeber that water boils and freezes at 100c & 0c or 32f & 212f??? The arogance of the US, second only to England.
So, gee if there were only 70,000 stragglers at the Wash DC protest, then this whole protest thing is really overblown then.
My bad.
In this case, since there's so much widespread support for Obama and the Dems plan that they'll enact this plan ASAP with no problem. No need for the Repubs at all.
Buaahahahaaaaa!!!!!
You are mixing concepts. There's no reason to use fractions and fractions are an inherent part of INCH measurements. Decimal inches are just as easy to remember and work with as metric dimensions.Quote:
Am I wrong? I mean what is easier to remember: 14mm comes after 13mm or 9/16" comes after 1/2"???
And .562 comes after .500 whether the units are inches or centimeters.
So let's see, contrapostive of your assertion is that if the dems can't pass the bill without republican and blue dog support, then there were more than 70000 at the DC rally. What kind of logic is that??? Looks like you discovered a non-sequitur. Congratulations!
The reason the dems are reluctant to pass the current form of the bill is that it represents too much of a compromise to the republican authors. The dems don't like it because it has no viable public option and the republicans don't like it because they need to defeat Obama on at least one issue.
Once again, since you keep repeating the opposite, Obama has offered to put tort reform on the table. Just this morning on meet the press he mentioned it again. Personally, I think tort reform is tricky business. If your doctor was sure enough of your diagnosis to propose surgery, but not sure enough not to order the extra tests to cover his own ass in case he's wrong, would you trust him to perform the surgery without the tests? How many safeguards against misdiagnosis are you willing to give away for the miniscule savings offered by tort reform?
Decimal inches my ass! I was an automotive machinist years ago and I heard that same bullshit. Decimal inches are consecutive I agree but everything else with the "standard" system takes memorization. For an American growing up in the USA the standard system seems fine, but go to the simple country of Mexico and the Standard system is lost. Why should you have to re=aquaint yourself with measurements once you leave the US? Why dosent the USA convert to the Metric system, there is no benefit to the US system. Even US cars have gone metric on everything except the speedo as they must do so in order to have their cars and parts manufactured in this WORLD economy.
Any American car in the 1980s was a piece of shit!!!! I love muscle cars and most all American trucks but everything else including your Corvette is garbage. Why do brands like Buick and Mercury still exist? These are old thinking outdated brands that only sell to the 60+ crowd. American car industry is lost. Go more diesel.... oh I forgot most Diesel reserves are in Iran and the US hates Iran so they put dutys on small car Diesel vehicles.
I'm just saying that since government run health plans have such wide broadbased support with the American people, and since (as everyone points out here) all this protest is just overblown right wing nonsense that is hyped way out of proportion by the evil Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck, that the Democrats and Obama should just ram this bill through the House and Senate.
I'm sure (based on the comments of many HungAngel members - which surely represents a fair and balanced cross section of the American psyche) that the vast majority of American public really do want government run health care. All this rumbling you've been hearing about is pure hype. There's only a tiny fraction of Americans - you know the rich evil republicans - who don't want this ObamaCare plan.
Even if a few pesky Blue Dog Dems vote the other way there's still a way to fake the system and get it passed.
Look all those people that are still complaining about Bush/Cheney and the Republicans....Don't forget that you won. The Dems can pass this health bill - and in fact, they can pass the even more radical single payer plan that Obama really wants. We can get a health system that is just as good as the V.A. or as financially stable as Social Security and Medicare!!!
C'mon now... Let's do it for ol' Teddy. And let's try not to think about the gold plated health-retirement plan that our elected officials have (and will continue to have) - that would be too.... divisive.
Heh heh heh...
Surely, there must be some way we can blame this on a member of the Bush family?Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie
the Bush family can not be blamed for shitty American cars in the 1980s. That is a true loss, after bumper and emission laws in the early 1970s the US car manufacturers lost their way.
A company that did well all the way through.. Porsche.
So you LIKED the 914 and the 924?? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie
Holy shit those look like pieces of shitQuote:
Originally Posted by Willie Escalade
Can we please keep the metric system out of here lol this is about healthcare damn it.
Well, first off, they violated the cease fire. Secondly, Hussein kept acting like he had WMD - which convinced people that he had WMD. Thirdly, it was thought to be an opportunity to start up a western-style "liberal democracy" in the middle of Islam and demonstrate the advantages to the surrounding areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycanuck
If it were just about oil, we'd have invaded Canada and Mexico instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycanuck
Wrong. You'd have a hell of a harder time convincing the international community to bomb Toronto. And wrong...it was oil. Spin it anyway you want, it was to secure interest in oil reserves in Iraq. Even Mr. Greenspan admits it. 18 year republican....can't go against him can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by duplicatt
Quote:
“I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,”
We wouldn't need the international community to bomb Toronto to take over Canada. We'd have just driven north into Alberta (and probably let Parti Québécois have their way with Quebec to buy off that segment of the population).Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycanuck
And, if it was to secure Iraqi oil for the US, then why are we not importing all of it here regardless of what the international community and putative rulers of Iraq say? And how come a British company (BP) got the contracts? The results do not support your claim (or Mr. Greenspan's).
But, at least you aren't claiming that it was to topple Hussein for trying to kill HW.
Would look kinda funny for the US to directly import the oil to the States. Did I say "import directly to the states"? "Secure" could mean a lot of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by duplicatt
So if you don't believe an 18 year Republican who steered the US economy for those years (badly I may add), who will you believe? Get your head out of the sand duplicatt.
Oh and it would be foolish to invade up here. But that won't happen.
Lol.. left this thread for a couple weeks, I come back and were bombing Toronto... well done chaps, good to see diplomacy at work!
We'll beat them off with our Tim Horton's coffee. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Faldur
Canada would be an easy conquest. :cool:
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Faldur
:lol: yah right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial
The Porsche 914 is awsome, one of the best handling cars ever made, I own one, Tara Emory drove in it with me and she liked it. The 924 is an Audi designed by Porsche built by Audi and it did finacially pay for itself but none are running well to this day. The 924 taught Porsche a lesson on having too wide of a range of cars, the poor people do not fit in with the rich so why offer cars to both. Now don't get me started on American failures, they tried to come out with "fuel efficient" cars starting in the 70s but the Vega, Pinto, Pacer all had serious problems that the Japs kicked the U.S. ass over and still do today. Americans pyhsically kicked the Japanese ass in WW2 but then the Japanese people kicked the Americans ass in the way of electronics and comuter cars decades later.
Anyway enough of this car talk. Bring on the metric system and universal health care!