I don't listen to Bortz or Coulter, but I know of them and don't listen to them.
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I don't listen to Bortz or Coulter, but I know of them and don't listen to them.
Used it elsewhere but it applies here as well...
Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Good, you're not missing anything. Again, what I would like to see is having the crap that a Coulter or Boortz dispend daily be put under the same microscope that Imus has been put under these last few days. That once their crap is exposed and scrutinized for everyone to see, that the marketplace determine what stays and what goes. I have faith in the intelligence of the masses that they wouldn't accept the crap of a Boortz or Coulter. ...I'm not for government censorship, but I am for the balance that scrutiny brings out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ezed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realgirls4me
CBS still has a shred of reputation left?? Thats news to me (pun intended)
Otto,
Well, it has far more than, say, Fox News. Look how they just did Obama for example:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
They did what they've done many times -- took a partial quote to smear someone and also fit their agenda.
.
http://www.newshounds.us and http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/ check those ones out as well.
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Originally Posted by Realgirls4me
I put all of those alphabet channels AND Faux News in the same steaming pile of excrement they want to call news. I personally don't care to digest the tripe that comes from ANY alphabet channel (cbs, nbc, abc) with an embedded pro-Alqueda sympathizing correspondent, or alternatively,... a vapid, teleprompter reading muppet with bleached blond hair sequewaying into the star spangled banner with a smile on her face.
They are all the shite.
Coulter and O'Reilly appeal to a target audience that pretty much alienates anyone:Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend
making under 500k a year
supporting abortion rights
gay rights
anti war
pretty much 99% of this board
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_Asia
Most of those channels with their iconoclasts are purely there for ratings...hence the disparate disconnect with most people. Whether conservative or liberal...the executives know that divisive opinion and the talking heads who espouse their opinions, and give a forum for it, will attract the most lively of debate, which the public does tune into. So, however much you hate Oreilly, Coulter, Hannity, etc... an equal and justified corellation to some of the figureheads on the left either in Hollywood, the arts, activist speaking, etc...can be made generally to characterize in the same manner.
The only problem I have with that take of yours, Otto, is that the former act as journalists, where those from Hollywood are just highly visible private citizens. Many out there look at a Hannity or O'Reilly as actual journalists, but they'll dismiss the Hollywood type because they aren't.
Being unaware of their involvement in the Duke rape case, you requested links establishing that Jackson and Sharpton had, indeed, involved themselves on behalf of the accuser. Chef and I merely provided some of the top google links available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Realgirls4me
What you seem to be avoiding is that both men rushed to support a woman whom most experts already believed was being untruthful well into the period that Jackson and Sharpton were supporting her. That they chose to do so, despite her serious criminal history, despite her having previously made a very similar claim against three other men that she had to drop due to lack of evidence, and despite the fact that she was clearly lying early on is to their eternal discredit. Jackson, for his part, when asked whether he/Rainbow Push would still pay her tuition if she was lying, specifically stated that he would. What integrity the man must have to reward that sort of conduct, thereby encouraging it in other women. Bottom line: Jackson rushing to support this woman – based solely on the color of her skin – regardless of whether she was telling the truth or not makes him no better than any white racist he might oppose.
With all due respect, I know enough about him to know the specifics of his involvement in the Duke rape case, something you didn’t. I also know the specifics surrounding Jackson’s “Hymietown” comment, and they don’t come close to matching your benign portrayal. For your edification, the true specifics are as follows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Realgirls4me
Rev. Jesse Jackson referred to Jews as "Hymies" and to New York City as "Hymietown" in January 1984 during a conversation with a black Washington Post reporter, Milton Coleman. Jackson had assumed the references would not be printed because of his racial bond with Coleman, but several weeks later Coleman permitted the slurs to be included far down in an article by another Post reporter on Jackson's rocky relations with American Jews.
A storm of protest erupted, and Jackson at first denied the remarks, then accused Jews of conspiring to defeat him. The Nation of Islam's radical leader Louis Farrakhan, an aggressive anti-Semite and old Jackson ally, made a difficult situation worse by threatening Coleman in a radio broadcast and issuing a public warning to Jews, made in Jackson's presence: "If you harm this brother [Jackson], it will be the last one you harm."
Finally, Jackson doused the fires in late February with an emotional speech admitting guilt and seeking atonement before national Jewish leaders in a Manchester, New Hampshire synagogue. Yet Jackson refused to denounce Farrakhan, and lingering, deeply rooted suspicions have led to an enduring split between Jackson and many Jews. The frenzy also heightened tensions between Jackson and the mostly white establishment press.
These aren’t the only anti-Semitic comments made by Jackson over the years. Furthermore, the history of Jackson's own racism goes far beyond anit-Semitism – admitting that, when he was a waiter, he used to spit in the food of white patrons and that it “gave him a psychological gratification,” etc.
LMAO… I don’t know about the “black idiot” portion of your statement, but the “clown” part certainly applies, at least in relation to Sharpton. This part of your post actually addresses, indirectly, one of my main issues with Sharpton and, to a lesser degree, Jackson. Why? If a man is going to be a truly effective “civil rights leader,” he needs to have credibility outside of his own community. Copious hypocrisy on the part of an aspirant leader never results in that needed credibility. Sharpton, for his part, has next to no credibility outside the African American community. Those few outside the African American community who do take him seriously are limited to a very small portion of the white Liberal Left and, recently, since Viequez, parts of the Latino community. To the overwhelming majority of American’s he will always be the man behind Tawana Brawley, the guy on the FBI tape arranging for Kilos of cocaine to be dealt within the same community he is supposed to be protecting, and the guy with his own history or racist comments (white interlopers, diamond merchants, etc.). Jackson, for his part, used to be credible outside the African American community, but has lost a lot of that credibility over the last five years or so for reasons most people are already familiar with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Realgirls4me
While the “Hymietown” and “Tawana Brawley” incidents are distant issues, many of the other issues surrounding both the character and conduct of the not-so-dynamic duo are far more recent. Furthermore, I am surprised that you would talk of a “double standard” when you yourself are applying one. Think about it. You are asking us to look past the flaws of these two men based upon the good that they have done. Imus, by contrst – who I do not like either by the way – merits no such consideration in your posts. Why the double standard? By conservative estimates, Imus has personally raised over $40 million dollars for the charities he champions. That’s far more than Jackson and Sharpton have ever done combined. And that doesn’t even take into account the fact that Imus has never aided and abeded an individual making false accusation to destroy innocent people. Neither Jackson nor Shaprton can say that, let alone apologize for actually doing it. What integrity........Quote:
Originally Posted by Realgirls4me
Study the specifics of the Tawana Brawley case and you’ll quickly discover what most New York City residents already know: there’s no way Shaprton couldn’t have known she was lying. The evidence was obvious and overwhelming. Furthermore, I respectfully disagree with your position that Jackson would have apologized. Why? He still hasn’t apologized to the Duke Lacrosse players for his comments or actions in that matter, and that whole thing bares a striking similarity to the Tawana Brawley incident.Quote:
Originally Posted by Realgirls4me
Due to the immense hypocrisy of their positions, neither Jackson nor Shaprton should have been involved. Contrary to the unsupported assertions of some in this thread, there would have been plenty of credible African American critics who would have acted on this without Jackson or Shaprton.Quote:
Originally Posted by Realgirls4me
Look, Real, you’re a cool poster and I definitely respect your opinion, but, on this matter at least, I don’t think we’ll be able to find common ground. I’m off to battle my insomnia. Have a good night.
-Quinn
I'll respond to your post tomorrow, as I also have to hit the sack in a few minutes.
I respectfully disagree. It doesn't matter. If we are talking strictly about shaping opinions and public knowledge base, it makes no difference what podium the speaker is talking from here in America,(i won't speak for other countries). Unfortunately, how a message is received by viewers or listeners is not often dwelled upon, that that message comes from a Nobel laureate, or a self proclaimed Reverend, or a tabloid journalist. The public finds different outlets to get their own particular take on an isssue...Quote:
Originally Posted by Realgirls4me
Take Rosie Odonell. She has a forum, a rather large venue that reaches millions of women each day...and she speaks her often rather ignorant opinions in areas of science she has herself admitted to as uneducated in. Yet she has an impressive opinion. Do these viewers who sit there, nod their heads, and rally to her side, really understand the depth of her intelligence, or limited years of education in the topics she rants about?? No. But it shapes their views (curiously why its called the View). Most cases surrounding politics, the listener/viewer has a predetermined point of view (correct or not), and is looking for validation in many ways, plus information is now disseminated through the entertainment side of television to certain demographics purely. (IE. Daily show, MTV news)etc..
I could cite, a plurality of those who oppose Coulter, Oreilly and the likes of Rush, on the left have substantially more weight, outreach, and a perceived status to espouse their pet theories, scientific "facts", to the general populus who digest it just to feel good about their own beliefs. Al Gore is a prime example. I think you get my point. YOu can pick apart the right side for being egregious, and mock Oreilly...i'm with you...but to be intellectually honest, you cannot ignore the left's iconoclastic political movers and shakers. Different points of view from different podiums..all having the same relative effects on their target audiences.
I think there is less man blaming in the black community than you may realize. I don't think too many black middle class and upper class families are making those complaints. I can understand all the sides of the black community struggle. I'm educated, and my Mother has a Masters degree, and she's working on her PhD. But I still have family members in the ghetto. I'm in both worlds. I see many families working hard in the ghetto, and I see the people who sell drugs on the street.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_Asia
I actually do know about Liberia, since I plan to take a trip to the region. America reluctantly supported the country. The American Colonization Society established Liberia
"The American Colonization Society was established in 1816 by Robert Finley as an attempt to satisfy two groups in America. Ironically, these groups were on opposite ends of the spectrum involving slavery in the early 1800's. One group consisted of philanthropists, clergy and abolitionist who wanted to free African slaves and their descendants and provide them with the opportunity to return to Africa. The other group was the slave owners who feared free people of color and wanted to expel them from America.
Both the these groups felt that free blacks would be unable to assimilate into the white society of this country. John Randolph, one famous slave owner called free blacks "promoters of mischief." At this time, about 2 million Negroes live in America of which 200,000 were free persons of color. Henry Clay, a southern congressman and sympathizer of the plight of free blacks, believed that because of "unconquerable prejudice resulting from their color, they never could amalgamate with the free whites of this country."
Liberia has had issues due to a lot of outside sources among other issues though. First, because early citizens didn't integrate with Africa. They called themselves Americans. The native Africans and the "Americans" didn't trust each other. Understandable. These "Americans" considered themselves as more civilized over the natives...hmmm...interesting. Britain and France annexed a lot of Liberian territory, and economic issues destabilized Liberia. So, there are many reasons why the country struggled like it did. Basically, like everything else...it's complex.
As for South Carolina cops....the south never truly changed in the first place. The south was pushed into change since the civil war, and you can still feel the hate in parts of the south.
I will say that black people act differently since we were ALWAYS treated differently. Change can't just happen in the black community. You need the country as a whole to change. Corporate america controls the music industry. White america supports the current music just as any part of black america. That's a fact. It's a mess, but you just can't blame every black person for the issues in our community.
In a few posts back, I posted how Sharpton and Jackson have attacked the music companies as well. As for the argument about black leaders, I was just debating the topic after viewing this link:
http://www.blackprof.com/archives/20...k_leaders.html
I would like to have better leaders in the spotlight. Obama seems genuine, and I'm curious to see if he will take that role. I do know that we have to incorporate men of all races in a new civil rights movement. The states are from being black and white these days.
It is complex and you are correct change needs to happen on both sides of the fence.
I would venture to guess that if black america supported leaders that have actually earned respect transcending the color barrier such as Obama or Colin Powell.as opposed to the current usual suspects that pop up whenever they feel the time is right,then perhaps white america might actually pause to listen as opposed to automatically dismissing Jesse or Al's words as yet another example of playing the race card.
Obama or Colin Powell really haven't done anything to gain support from black america because their political positions do nothing but advance themselves and breaking the color nowadays isn't quite as powerful as it used to be (jackie robinson)i doubt any African americans would consider sharpton and jackson as any kind of leader,now if you wanted to talk about earned respect and leadership material look at deceased dr. martin luther king he earned much respect from both white and black people because he believed everyone should get along and be looked at as equals to progress as a nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_Asia
True on MLK but sadly he isnt around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend
If what you imply about Powell or Obama is correct then thats too bad as both men have proven that regardless of skin color they have suceeded in their fields of expertise and anyone who denies their credentials as intelligent leader candidates are biased.
White america would listen much closer to them then the Rev or Al.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_Asia
um, you realize that sirius is a pay service, right? that means you don't have to listen...Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend
why is it that only this type of speech being held to a high moral standard when it comes from the right? i would think that it much more relevant to this day and age that the rap artist (and i use that the term artist loosely) is not held to the same standard? the lyrics are homophobic, insulting and degrading to all women, lewd and excessively crude. I don't see anyone calling Snoop Dog or Ludicrious to task or the record companies canceling contracts. When we decide to draw a line it needs to be drawn clearly and apply to all people no matter political, racial or gender affiliation.
Yup that point has been raised many times in this thread...Quote:
Originally Posted by bucatini70
BTW you enjoying New Years?
who cares hes a shock jock thats his job and if people dont like it then keep it outta the music or should i say so called music, rap sucks its there fault it crept into the mainstream so dont blame imus blame the idiots who made it that way
Obviously alot of people care other wise he would probably still have a job,come on lisa it's easy to blame so one else or something he has acknowledge that it was his fault and hasn't tried to use rap as a scapegoat,individuals are responsible for their own actions.Come on if his jokes were targeted towards the transgendered community would you find a scapegoat for him so easily?This guys should be put in the same category as people like fred savage.Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaparadise
I am in no defending rap music just saying be responsible for your own actions.
You really find the true nature of people in threads such as this one,they might not even realize it.It's good you can have open dialogue but when you put more prejudice and justification into the mix it makes matters worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unisex
I really like this lady!Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaparadise
Is that really surprising when you two share the same let's blame something else view.Quote:
Originally Posted by chefmike
Legend, you're stupid.
And it's equally surprising when you show an inability to recognize – let alone intelligently discuss or debate – anything of a substantive nature pertaining to these or any other events. Maybe you should just stick to shrilly insulting people who disagree with your factually myopic and uninformed perspective. Still, if that doesn’t work for you, you can always put up one of your melodramatic “since no one likes me I’m leaving” posts and then crawl back with your tail between your legs a few months later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend
-Quinn
What an intelligent post chef you really amaze me with your meaningful and thoughtful responses towards me and this subject,let me say you have added so much positive input on this topic you should be rewarded :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by chefmike
You responses in this thread adds up to nothing more then a few co-signs and posting something from the huffington post it seems as though you can't post anything on the subject in your own words but i'll give you this your pics and responses have been quite hysterical at least now come on make me laugh!
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Originally Posted by Quinn
I did recognize your posts toward me and i truly apologized that i didn't respond but what's really the point when your post is buried by some moron with a response towards your response which adds up to nothing more then a childish insult or two.
It's hard to debate and discuss issues like this when your being verbally asaulted with childish name calling.
I only respond to insults when they are being throw at me, i don't go out of my way here just insulting people i respect everyone until they come at me.
I will give you credit for one thing, 'tardboy.
In addition to your monumental stupidity, you are also amazingly ignorant!
Bravo, zippy!
Quinn, do you remember that epic post that J made regarding 'tardboy making wee-wee in his pants, and consequently being sent to his room?
:roll:
Imus is Gone, Snoop Dogg Remains: Are We Happy Now?
David Bromwich
Before the self-congratulation gets any more feverish, here is one splash of cold water on the destruction of Don Imus. There was a sodden moralism in the comments on this subject in the New York Times and elsewhere that bodes ill for discussion of less worked-up issues. Imus is a known quantity--a drawling wit, vulgar entertainer, holder forth and pretend-lowbrow, a misanthrope and churl who over many years adapted himself to the gutter medium of talk radio. He is also the only interviewer who ever put John Kerry at ease (the subject, once, was basketball). He had corrosive things to say about the Iraq war, and his references to the president were often in a class with his sprawl of words about the Rutgers team. A non-denominational hater and, like certain other misanthropes, fearless as well as feckless. Can anyone believe his replacement will be made of finer stuff?
The occasion was arbitrary, the penalty outsize, the author of the majority opinion that stern moralist, Al Sharpton. In concurring, Barack Obama spoke some politic but unconvincing words about the harm that patter like Imus' could do to the self-image of his daughters. A more constant menace to habits of respect throughout the culture is the self-contempt of the rap verbiage that Imus in his studio daze could not have copied more faithfully if he had been hired to do so. This is a slang any parent of a teenager can recognize has sunk deep roots in the insult arsenal of Americans of all colors. The absurdity of the notion that Imus picked up his language from Ku Kluxers and not from 50 Cent will eventually be noticed.
Another view of the matter has been expounded by a well-qualified judge:
"It's a completely different scenario. [Rappers] are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about hos that's in the 'hood that ain't doing shit, that's trying to get a nigga for his money. These are two separate things. First of all, we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC going hard on black girls. We are rappers that have these songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel. I will not let them muthafuckas say we in the same league as him."
Snoop Dogg distinguishes the cases. Is that all right then? Imus is totally gone. Snoop Dogg is still with us. Are we happy now?
I have to take back something I said, you are a goldfish,Quote:
Originally Posted by Realgirls4me
I might not know what is in there minds but you do? are you that naive? The Rev. Sharpton was a music promoter, the biggest crooks on the planet. And your view of a double standard is a double standard. If you have more then someone they should be able to play by different rules? DUMB ASS!! As for them not having power, are you crazy? They control the whole minority, that is a lot of power. The white leaders on civil rights? Clinton, both him and her, there are so many others, just because they are not preaching from soap boxes doesn't mean there not there.
UNREAL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unisex
Don't get me wrong i think some lyrics and videos in hip hop disrespectful towards women and the community should be corrected but to put the blame on hip hip or the black community is ridiculous.
Sharpton and many others have protested rappers used of the n words for months but some how that slipped through the news media or people just don't give a damn.
Damn does that bring back memories. Watching J and Legend go at each other used to make me howl with laughter sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by chefmike
-Quinn
Unisex, you've always spoken your mind in a forthright manner. Why change that now? If you have something to say, would it not be better to speak frankly – as opposed to passive-aggressively making unsupported and vague implications. Just a thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unisex
-Quinn
The main reason Powell & Obama made so much of them self is because they didn't use there race as a tool and just worked hard as good men, not black men or white men, just menQuote:
Originally Posted by DJ_Asia
Ok- so I have to clarify a few things...
and I ask that you all read and take these things into account, with an open mind void of fear and any personal anger/feelings...(though this might be virtually impossible to do- it's not the easiest topic to talk about... )
Racism and racist ideologies involve one group having the POWER to carry out systematic discrimination through the major institutions of society, By this definition only white people can be racist in our society because HONESTLY, only white people as a group have the power of true control throughout the major institutions of our society. ( To those disbelievers reading this...I can definitely supply facts supporting my statement) Rappers and singers who spew racial epithets and slurs against one another through music or everyday interactions are simply products of a system/way of thinking that will forever run itself; Racist ideas no longer require planning or initiative by a person or a group as they have already been instituted into everyones thoughts and ideas and may be forever perpetuated by all of us. This is... unless groups in power who control the media, government, etc. will help stop this thinking ALONG WITH those who have fallen victim to it. (which would be everyone other than white people...)
Don Imus is but a scapegoat...he is not really even the true villain here. (Though what he said was for lack of better words- EXTREMELY FUCKED UP!!) Like Michael Richards, Imus' remarks will cause controversy for a few weeks and probably die down after a while... diverting attention from the fact that racist ideas have and continue to infiltrate just about every aspect of this society... television, websites(LOL), print and film, etc, etc.
Don't react immediately. Think about all that I have said...
and open your eyes.
Now you're just being coy... :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Unisex