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Forgot to ask: will there be Vice-President debates? And when does Trump make his choice? I keep seeing JD Vance's name in the gossip, but surely he is too alpha to run beside Trump, who needs a wimp that will make him look like Daddy rather than Bro -?
There's been no announcement of VP debates. I think both parties will still have conventions. The VP nominees should be announced then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
The babe done hear me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
Kamala Harris Agrees To Vice Presidential Debate This Summer (yahoo.com)
Yes there is,because it will help voters decide which of the two candidates they want too vote for in the upcoming presidental election. Not surprising at all the Trump Campaign are making false claims that the debates are rigged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
More on the VP stakes: this is from the Telegraph, which can be relied on to attack Biden on all fronts, so much of the opinion is warped. That said, this is the justification for choosing Rubio as VP-
"The Latino population grew by 23 per cent from 2010 to 2020, and now account for 18.7 per cent of the US population. Despite generally lower participation rates, more than 17.5 million Latino voters are expected to cast ballots this November nationwide, representing a 6.5 per cent increase from Election 2020. More than one of every 10 voters will be Latino (11.1 per cent) this year, a 20.5 per cent increase from 2016.
Latinos have become increasingly critical of Biden’s border policies. Recent polling shows that 40 per cent consider the border to be in crisis, and dislike the government’s lax enforcement policies. A full third favours more deportations, a position once rare among those of Hispanic heritage."
If Trump wants to win the election, he must reject MAGA sycophants (yahoo.com)
Re-structing a State might not be new, but can I assume this proposal -to remove eastern Oregon to Idaho will not pass? If anything, it speaks to an enmity between Americans that Trump and the Republicans seem keen to exploit, even if, or maybe because it will see to the effective demise of the USA as e pluribus unum? It will be more like Brexit than Stalingrad, but just as daft.
‘We don’t have a democracy’: why some Oregonians want to join Idaho | Oregon | The Guardian
Oh dear, poor Elise...when someone reminds you of something bad you said about someone you now love...'how dare you!'.
Because the truth is another country, they did things differently there.
Stefanik Loses It When Fox News Host Reminds Her She Called Trump a ‘Whack Job’ (yahoo.com)
Elise Stefanik once harshly blasted Trump’s rhetoric and policies | CNN Politics
Here is the other Elise, the one that Beethoven wrote in 1810 when James Madison was the elected President of the USA, played by André Watts who died last year. I know which Elise I prefer.
Bagatelle in A Minor, WoO 59 "Für Elise" (youtube.com)
"“Let me ask you,” Biden said during an address to an NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) dinner in Detroit. “What do you think he would have done on January 6 if Black Americans had stormed the Capitol?”"
Biden: what would Trump have done if the Capitol riots had been led by Black Americans? (yahoo.com)
Go on, then, America, tell us.
The MAGA King and Wannabe Dictator Donald Trump,would have called in the DC National Guard and US Secret Service. And we all know that he didn't do a damn thing for over 3 hours to stop the capitol riot,because he was at the White House watching on television cheering them on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
"Former President Donald Trump on Monday posted a video on his social media platform that uses a language that appears to mirror that of Nazi Germany, suggesting there will be a "Unified Reich" if he wins the 2024 election...
Under a big headline that says, "WHAT'S NEXT FOR AMERICA?" there is a smaller headline underneath that appears to read: "INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED DRIVEN BY THE CREATION OF A UNIFIED REICH."...
In a statement to the Associated Press, the Trump campaign claimed it is not a campaign video but rather a video reposted by a staffer who did not see the word." (My highlight in bold).
Trump posts social media video seemingly suggesting his victory will bring 'unified Reich' - ABC News (go.com)
Nah, did not see the word because it was in BLOCK CAPITALS...should have gone to Specsavers
Welcome to the Specsavers Vet | Specsavers UK & ROI (youtube.com)
So it is not the record, but the player that is the problem. Will both DJs still be spinning come November? Is it still too late to change?
Biden’s record on the economy is good but voters don’t feel it. Character, not policy, is key to victory | Robert Reich | The Guardian
Not sure who this woman is, I see her stuff on the yahoo site when I have logged out of my email account. This video on Arizona points to the people, if not the means, whereby Trump might be guaranteed victory in Arizona no matter who the people vote for. Suggests the 'Republican Party' is as unhinged as its Dear Leader.
Maddow: GOP bears Big Lie's deep scars as Trump dances to avoid accountability - YouTube
Don't know much about him, but isn't he, ahem, too intelligent to be No 2? Or are his fingers that brown?
There’s a new frontrunner on Trump’s VP shortlist. And it’s not who you’d think (yahoo.com)
Or could it be the second coming of 'St Peter' -why just have one convicted criminal in the White House when you can have two?
Trump would ‘absolutely’ rehire Peter Navarro despite prison sentence | Donald Trump | The Guardian
I love it when White people speak up for us Blacks which simultaneously is insulting because what they're really saying is that we're too stupid or too weak to think for ourselves....
I.E. "Move along, we'll take from here FOR you".....
IMHO, Charlamagne Tha God has it right: "Both candidates are trash"......
(Oops, Charlamagne is Black therefore he must be too stupid like the rest of us)
Looks like Trump hasn't exactly been winning over the Libertarian crowd: "Trump furiously jeered as he taunts Libertarians for winning ‘3%’ in elections at their convention." Why would a supposedly independent party invite a major party's candidate to address their convention?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2551645.html
This article provides relevant background on attempts by MAGA-leaning extremists to take over the Libertarian Party. https://www.motherjones.com/politics...rtarian-party/
I think libertarianism is a simplistic philosophy that has little useful to say about the world's major problems, but if you are going to subscribe to it you should be consistent. It's hardly libertarian to want freedom for yourself while supporting authoritarian solutions against others you don't like.
Thanks for the link, but the contradictions make the 'Libertarian Party' a contradiction in terms, like much of their pseudo-philosophy -if they are non-state anarchists, it makes no sense to both have a political party which has rules and membership, and also participate in a system they don't believe in. Rothbard, Hoppe and people like that are no different from Murdoch -they think Markets know better than Governments, and that the former should replace the latter. But while they are opposed to the State they don't seem to be so hostile to the concept of the Nation (von Mises aside, perhaps) while their attitude to race seems to be shaped more by the experience of American history than the history of states and markets.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
Trump was booed at their conference, presumably more footage of this will emerge later. They are an irrelevance right now, and that's their problem.
a) Whoever this God person might be, he does sound like an idiot, but I doubt it is because it is due to the colour of his skin, more likely the absence of intelligence.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFanti
b) I think you dislike White people talking at you, not for you. But you might also tell us if you are jazzed and energized by Trump's negroes -are they 'House Negroes' or 'Field Negroes' ?-Tim Scott, and Byron Donalds. What do you think Trump, a pathological racist who loathes Black people, is doing when he recruits them and any rapper with a rap to his cause? After all, this is the man who built New York City -a city with thousands or buildings and hundred of skyscrapers, of which Trump built two, and probably not with Black construction workers. Lying is what counts, because if you tell a lie enough times, people will believe it.
From what I have seen and heard, and in the UK that is not as much as you, there are plenty of intelligent, articulate Black Americans in politics who are worthy of both respect, and votes. Maybe best to focus on them rather than a parade of losers and nutjobs who reinforce prejudice when they would do better to end it.
The man is desperate, and plain ignorant.
Tim Scott on Trump Getting Booed by Libertarians: He’s So Popular! (yahoo.com)
One wonders if he ever crosses the state line to see how the economy is doing under 'the worst President in American history'...
"...after years of careful planning, Chatham County has started to change.The new Wolfspeed factory — six football fields long — overlooks I-64 and will soon produce advanced wafers for computer chips. Automaker Vinfast is scheduled to open a factory as well. Both projects stem in large part from incentives that Biden signed into law.
Developers, including the Walt Disney Corp., plan to build several thousand new homes.
“When the right opportunity came along, we were there and we were ready,” said Greg Lewis, who owns the steakhouse. “It is growth, growth, growth.”".
In one North Carolina county, it's 'growth, growth, growth.' But will Biden reap the benefit? (yahoo.com)
Who are you quoting regarding the ‘House Negroes’ or ‘Field Negroes’ labels? It doesn’t say in your comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
Biden has appointed more black judges to the federal judiciary than any president in history. If the question is “what has Biden done for black people?” you can add that to the list. With a black judge, when black people appear in court - whether they are the plaintiff or the defendant- it’s much less likely that racism will be a factor in the judge’s decisions. Biden just did another round of student loan forgiveness- an issue that disproportionately affects black students (when your family isn’t rich, you take out student loans).Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFanti
What are some of Charlamagne’s complaints about Biden? Or what are some of your complaints about Biden? What makes him “trash”? What are some issues you wish Biden would address (but hasn’t)?
Tim-Baldheaded Asskisser-Scott very delusional and needs to keep his idiotic comments to himself. His unhinged leader maybe popular among the MAGA Base,however he isn't so popular everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
It was not a quote from a verifiable source. I was using the terms, sarcastically I admit, in an 'as if' context, the terms having been used in other contexts, such as in films, though in one case with one of the words I used replaced by something much more offensive. One should really use the " mark for actual quotes though these days the rules are not always applied, hence the confusion. Hope that is clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by fred41
Not sure why white and black need to be capitalised, but what I'd like to know is:Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFanti
Was Abraham Lincoln insulting black people when he signed the Emancipation Proclamation?
Was the Supreme Court insulting black people when it ruled against segration in Brown vs Board of Education?
Was the Johnson administration insulting black people when it enacted civil rights legislation?
Were all the white liberals who took part in the civil rights movement insulting black people?
Would it have been better if all these white people had just stayed out and left black people to look after themselves?
Yes, I know you are not going to answer. All we ever get from you is vague insinuations, never any solutions.
Mr Fanti reminds me of the Monty Python scene 'What have the Romans ever done for us?'. What have liberals ever done for black people apart from emancipation, ending segregation, civil rights legislation, affirmative action, increasing assistance for needy families, increasing numbers of black representatives and judges, etc, etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Warm
Yes, many of these things should have been done earlier, but it's still perverse to be more critical of the people who've generally been supportive than those who have been opposed.
I know you posed this question to Mr. Fanti, but I just wanted to throw my two cents in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
While I don't see eye to eye with either Tim Scott or Byron Donalds, they're neither a "House Negro or a "Field Negro". Just because they have an (R) next to to their name and are towing the Trump Republican party line, doesn't make them any less of a black person than the Democrats who do the same for President Biden.
As for why recruits Scott, Donalds, and rappers to his cause, maybe its because his campaign team is paying attention to the polls. Like this one:
"One poll from the New York Times/Siena College/Philadelphia Inquirer, released earlier this month, found Biden leading Trump among Black voters, 63 percent to 23 percent. This is a significant decrease from the 87 percent of Black voters who voted for Biden in 2020."
Why else would the Trump campaign hold a rally in a Democratic county in a blue state he has no chance of winning in November. Maybe they feel there are inroads to make with Black and Latino voters. The latter which make up a majority of the population in that part of the Bronx.
As for Trump being a pathological racist who loathes Black people. I have always believed that I rather have a racist wear their heart on their sleeve, so I know where they're coming from. Instead of someone being subtlety racist and in moments of disagreement has the potential to show their true colors.
I'm not sure it makes any sense to say that racists are less bad if they are open about it. How many Jewish people would say "the Nazis weren't so bad because at least they were open about wanting to exterminate us"?Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
It's doubly strange to apply this argument to Trump, who always denies he's racist. This is a man who has claimed numerous times to be the least racist person there is!
I understand the points you are making, but the way people more intelligent than Trump are grovelling before him is demeaning and on another level quite scary -it is little different from the people who hailed Saddam Hussein as a new 'Saladin' or tell Putin he is the last hope of Christianity, or Stalin being hailed as a literary genius, or Narendra Modi saying last week I am convinced I was not born biologically, God sent me to do his work-Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
I am convinced I was not born biologically, God sent me to do his work: Modi in UP | Free Press Kashmir
When adulation replaces estimation based on facts and reason, democracy and the rule of law are diminished. Steve Bannon is open about his views '-Stalingrad every day'-, as is Alex Jones, and I don't know that Marjorie Taylor Greene is coy about her views either, none of which makes them admirable. They are open about their views because they really don't care about the platforms they need to voice them, just as if it comes to it, they will shut them down when it suits them, just as they ban books, ban drag queens, ban abortion -and if Trump can work out what he really thinks that his party wants, and ban contraception -then tell everyone it is the Left that is responsible for 'Cancel Culture'.
Americans must choose between democracy and dictatorship, or competence compared to incompetence, it is that simple. Tim Scott and Byron Donalds want to drag their country back to the Plantation where everyone knows their place, and there is only one boss, and in the latter case seem to think Education Apartheid is America's only hope. After all, Capitalism is a form of slavery, and it has many willing victims, terrified of their own freedom.
They are not choosing between dictatorship and democracy…and Capitalism is not a form of slavery - especially since no country practices a pure form of it. That type of paternalistic hyperbole gives some credence to what MrFanti is implying (though, for some reason or other, he doesn’t defend his statement when he is given ammunition gratis).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
It used to be (and still is, in many place here in the States) that comments like that, and some of the names used here to describe Conservative African American politicians, would usually only be wielded by other African Americans…due in part - because of the deeply racist ways in which they could, and continue to be weaponized. It is becoming a strange phenomenon , that white (often relatively wealthy) young people …using the cloak of Oppression Fighter - feel emboldened to spew racist tropes against black people that disagree with them politically. I saw the worst of this in some of the BLM marches - in wihich often white women, spewing spittle filled invectives against black police officers, loudly questioning the civil servant’s blackness.
Strange and troubling times indeed.
The reason Mr Fanti doesn't defend his own statements is that he's blocked other members who have disagreed with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by fred41
Are you really saying that you don't think Trumpism is a threat to American democracy? I don't dispute that Stavros overdoes the moralistic hyperbole, but I think you may also be engaging in a mixture of American exceptionalist complacency and false equivalence. Whatever you think about the behaviour of some left-wing protestors, it's hard to believe that it represents the same sort of systemic threat. These people are not being supported by the mainstream of the Democrat Party, whereas election denialism has taken over the Republican Party.
How do you look at Trump's attempts to overturn the last election - and the fact that almost the entire Republican Party has since come into line - and not see a threat to democracy? How can you look at Trump's authoritarian language about vermin, etc, and dismiss it as just rhetoric? Do you really think Republican 'adults' are going to stop him acting on his impulses this time?
Yeah, I don’t think Trumpism is a threat to American democracy. I’m confident in our system of government to protect itself from that. Either guy winning may not be good news (depending on one’s political views) , but it won’t be the apocalypse. I don’t know very many other people that actually feel that it would be. You obviously feel otherwise - I think it’s a pointless debate. It also wasn’t the main point to my response.
What would be a non-pointless debate, in your view? You don't seem to want to debate anyone anyone who disagrees with you. You also seem to be a determined 'bothsidesist'.Quote:
Originally Posted by fred41
When I say Capitalism is a form of slavery, it is because, hermits aside, people cannot live without money. We are slaves to it, but also to an economic system in which work is not a choice for most people, but a necessity, while at the same time in most economies they (or we) do not have a fair share of the wealth that is created, and just like slavery, cannot liberate people from this permanent loop of scarcity and necessity -isn't this why so many people dream of winning the lottery? Just because these ideas can be found in Marx doesn't mean they are redundant, though I think a lot of what he wrote has since become so. But his ideas about freedom from want are still relevant, though once anything to do with Marx becomes a term of abuse, the genuine philosophy fades into the background, but this is a debate for another occasion.Quote:
Originally Posted by fred41
What strikes me about this other debate, and I admit some of my language has been provocative, is the extent to which the grovelling before Trump is being done by people -Black or White or Latino or Asian or whatever, who think he is an idiot and happily confirm they think he is a shameless liar. This has become a threat to American democracy if you accept that their real goal is not so much Trump the man, as Trump as the facilitator of Project 2025, for this is their end game.
Project 2025, rooted in the perceived failures of Nixon, Reagan and GW Bush, amounts to the most comprehensive re-structuring of the US since it began, for example, declaring the USA as a Christian Nation, with all the rest of the agenda that is laid out in the Project that I have linked in other threads.
I understand why you believe the US system is robust enough to get through the 'Trump era', but at the same time I wonder if you underestimate the degree to which sectarian politics of the kind seen in Texas, Florida and Alabama, to name just three, is not going to be replaced soon by something more congenial to a Jeffersonian view of democracy as a market place of ideas where men, perhaps women too, engage in debates and accept the result of a democratic vote.
This concept of the 'Conservative Nation' in effect replaces the existing form of the State, but is also only partially in favour of free Markets -what matters is a form of identity politics that is more likely to exclude people from the system than include it, much as in those States abortion law is intended to remove Women from the political discourse as independent citizens making their own choices, and make them, when pregnant, wards of the State that will monitor their progress in case they seek a termination, and punish them if they do. It demonizes and then excludes drag queens -I mean, for heaven's sake, drag queens!- as if they are, by definition a threat to children, adults and Judeo-Christian Civilization. These things are actually happening, and with Judges that support them, be they on the Circuits or the Supreme Court, I really do think the US is involved in a crisis that in many ways is worse than the Confederate Insurrection against the USA in the 1860s.
We already hear the same Trump Puppets declare they will not accept the results of the 2024 election, knowing in advance their guy can't win it, but what the hell, the days when losers accepted it have gone, just as Trump doesn't want Trial by Jury but Trial by Chums.
When Byron Donalds and Tim Scott join with others who have little but contempt for the country that made them, you must surely recognize that you are living in a crisis, and that there are no guarantees that the system that has served you since 1776 is going to survive as its founders intended. Because these people really don't care about that, and that may be the scariest thing about it, along with a gun culture that it seems to me cannot be undone.
In time, I think States will go their own way if they can't get their guy into the White House and their soldiers into Congress. The result will be chaos as bad as, or maybe worse than Brexit. And dare I say it is because we have actually experienced separation of this kind that I do hope it doesn't happen to you.
I'm curious as to how you think that works. I assume you are aware of the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by fred41
1. Most Republicans supported Trump's stolen election lie last time, despite the lack of evidence.
2. Since then Trump has increased his control over the party, with those who resisted him either forced out of politics or intimidated into acquiesance.
3. The Constitution does not enforce itself, but requires people from both sides to be willing to do so.
4. The majority of the Supreme are right-wing operatives who have been willing to twist legal principles to justify decisions that suit their own side.
5. There is a plan (Project 2025) to replace neutral public servants with Trump loyalists.
6. A number of other countries have ceased to be effective democracies in recent times. They still have the legal trappings of democracy, but the system is so tilted that only the ruling party can win.
Supposing Republicans were to gain control of both Houses and the Presidency,as occurred in 2016. How exactly would Trump be restrained in these circumstances?
This is what a second Trump term will bring:Quote:
Originally Posted by fred41
https://globalextremism.org/project-...horitarianism/
https://www.project2025.org/
The tragedy of the situation is that Trump and his acolytes have not bothered to hide their intentions, yet most Americans seem to have chosen to ignore it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
If not Trump himself, perhaps someone can ask Messrs Johnson, Rubio, Cruz and Hawley-Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
-The trial is rigged? How?
-The Judge is corrupt? In what way is he corrupt?
-It's a Kangaroo Court! What does this mean?
Maybe people have by now got so used to these ignorant insults that it seems the truth no longer matters. Boris Johnson could not survive in our system, yet Trump does in the US. I think it says a lot about the fragile condition of the American system right now. Can it be repaired? Maybe the truth is that a third or so of Americans no longer believe in what they have, and either want to change it, or have given up. As for those who do believe, they will be sitting on a chair with three legs for some time.
Trump would just be a tool of Project 2025. He didn't come up with it. Florida Senator Rick Scott is more in line with the architects of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2