Tranny Chaser Chaser

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

androgeny is not a new phenomenon. look at grace jones.she had masculine and feminine characteristics in equal measure but identified as a woman. also theres prince.extremely pretty and feminine for a dude but has never identified as anything other than a hetero male.what about jaye davidson from the crying game? very extremely pretty and feminine but now living as a buff gay dude lol

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These are pretty recent examples, Amber. And yet even the persons you mention are not anywhere as close as where this Stas Fedyanin is, or for instance Arthur Nazarov (I don’t know all of their names by heart). It is a relatively new phenomenon and this is precisely part of my point: they’re getting more and more feminine. That’s what so strange!
You don’t find such femininity in males in history. Or at least, not since the time of early photography and cinema. And not really either in painting. Nothing of this sword.

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Originally Posted by danthepoetman

These are pretty recent examples, Amber. And yet even the persons you mention are not anywhere as close as where this Stas Fedyanin is, or for instance Arthur Nazarov (I don’t know all of their names by heart). It is a relatively new phenomenon and this is precisely part of my point: they’re getting more and more feminine. That’s what so strange!
You don’t find such femininity in males in history. Or at least, not since the time of early photography and cinema. And not really either in painting. Nothing of this sword.

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ancient egypts androgynous king:
""[He had] an androgynous appearance. He had a female physique with wide hips and breasts, but he was male and he was fertile and he had six daughters," Braverman said."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...minine-ph.html

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

ancient egypts androgynous king:
""[He had] an androgynous appearance. He had a female physique with wide hips and breasts, but he was male and he was fertile and he had six daughters," Braverman said."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...minine-ph.html

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Yes, we think it was a case of intersexuality, most probably the result of Androgen Insensivity Syndrome (which is the major cause). But once again, it’s not what we’re talking about one bit, here. lol
Or yet, it does have a relation to that, in my opinion. I really suspect we're facing a new kind of biological phenomenon.

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Originally Posted by danthepoetman

Yes, we think it was a case of intersexuality, most probably the result of Androgen Insensivity Syndrome (which is the major cause). But once again, it’s not what we’re talking about one bit, here. lol

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how isnt it? he was feminine and yet was still a man.
so whos to say that these male models dont have the same hormonal imbalance thats making them appear feminine?
im just saying that androgyny no matter how extreme is nothing new.it might just be new to you lol

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

how isnt it? he was feminine and yet was still a man.
so whos to say that these male models dont have the same hormonal imbalance thats making them appear feminine?
im just saying that androgyny no matter how extreme is nothing new.it might just be new to you lol

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No no, Amber: you can’t mix intersexuation with androgyny in history. AIS is a well defined and well known condition today. And a few others cause different types of intersexuation. Yet, as I was saying myself, you’re right in saying that it probably is something of the same nature, something biological indeed. Yes! That’s exactly my point! There is something weird happening, and new, and that touches more individuals than ever before, obviously. All you have to do to see that, is check the fashion world, check on the net, anywhere!

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Originally Posted by danthepoetman

No no, Amber: you can’t mix intersexuation with androgyny in history. AIS is a well defined and well known condition today. And a few others cause different types of intersexuation. Yet, as I was saying myself, you’re right in saying that it probably is something of the same nature, something biological indeed. Yes! That’s exactly my point! There is something weird happening, and new, and that touches more individuals than ever before, obviously. All you have to do to see that, is check the fashion world, check on the net, anywhere!

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Again my friend...its nothing new.just google androgyny in art and history

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Originally Posted by amberskyi

Again my friend...its nothing new.just google androgyny in art and history

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Amber, your penetrating intelligence forces my submission to your view... I was precisely trying to say the opposite, but I can't deny the strength of your arguments. You obviously see everything I said with an infallible clarity and have pierced through the fortress of my errors. I stand corrected. ;)

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Originally Posted by danthepoetman

These are pretty recent examples, Amber. And yet even the persons you mention are not anywhere as close as where this Stas Fedyanin is, or for instance Arthur Nazarov (I don’t know all of their names by heart). It is a relatively new phenomenon and this is precisely part of my point: they’re getting more and more feminine. That’s what so strange!
You don’t find such femininity in males in history. Or at least, not since the time of early photography and cinema. And not really either in painting. Nothing of this sword.

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Mmmmm you might want to check out the 'Mollie Houses' which existed in 18th century London. Perhaps also the description (in Burckhart and elsewhere) of the femboys who hung about the corners of Florentine streets (and whom MIchelangelo was attracted to.) These were young men presenting as closely to female as they could in an era when doing so could get you executed. In Rome, young men self-castrated in the temple of Cybele and then lived as female prostitutes, and this tradition can be traced back to the Temple of Inana in Uruk in Sumer. The Native American peoples also had transgendered people. Going the other way, George Sand (a natal woman) habitually presented as a man.

As for representation in art, the 'Morning' in Michelangelo's sculpture is clearly a man with tits, and there is an obvious femboy standing behind Jesus in da Vinci's 'last supper'==albeit one which has often been misrepresented as a woman!

Transgenderism most certainly is not a new phenomenon; yes modern medicine can make a transgendered individual very much more convincing in appearance, but the social phenomenon is as old as society.

Well, she's sitting actually. But anyway

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Originally Posted by danthepoetman

No no, Amber: you can’t mix intersexuation with androgyny in history. AIS is a well defined and well known condition today. And a few others cause different types of intersexuation. Yet, as I was saying myself, you’re right in saying that it probably is something of the same nature, something biological indeed. Yes! That’s exactly my point! There is something weird happening, and new, and that touches more individuals than ever before, obviously. All you have to do to see that, is check the fashion world, check on the net, anywhere!

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Two things are new in addition to modern medicine: the first is that while being transgendered is still dangerous, it is no longer punishable by a judicial death sentence, at least in large parts of the world (thankfully) (sorry I'm chatting with a student as well this is a bit disjointed) Where was I? and there is greater freedom for TS/TG to present as what they are with less risk of social violence. Secondly the internet has made it possible for TS/TG to be in public while also quite anonymous and has very much strengthened the network...which just did not exist before.

These have also allowed trans-attracted men like us to come much more out into the open where once we would probably not, because we could not see how we fitted or even knew what we are--we knew we were not gay because we are attracted to women, but we had nowhere to find similar voices. Places like this, for all its faults, provide that.

(BTW I just remembered I have a ref somewhere to conquistadores finding transgendered people in Peru in the 16th c)