The term transsexual...why doesn't it apply to me?

[quote="alpha2117"]

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It's not that you dont respect or treat them with respect but you say yourself that you are solely attracted to ts women which means one of two things and given all your other response it seems more that you have a fetishistic attachment to them. Nothing wrong with that either.

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Thanks for the response. I feel I've made it abundantly clear that it isn't fetish for me. I passed beyond that long ago. I've been in the community since I was around 15. My first long term relationship with a ts was in my early 20's. We lived together for 13.5 years. It passes far beyond fetish at that point. I could go on and on about my feelings and my activism and whatnot in the community, but I am very aware that this is not a fetish for me. I am almost of the mind that it's hormonal in some way. My physical makeup is at play here. What I keep trying to impress and keeps being missed is that this is deeply internal.

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Plenty of heterosexual people have the same deal, some guys will only date blondes, or girls with flat chests. Essentially if someone has a strict type and thats the only type they are attracted too at all then its really a bit fetishistic, which is really only a overwhelming peference. If it was only a preference then it's just that a preference and you could date gg's if you met one who you liked but by your statements you just wouldn't fancy that. The human mind is complex and like i said if thats the way your brain is wired dont sweat the labels. Most everyone on the planet has an overwhelming preference in some aspect of their life. It's normal. I really dont think you need to worry about a label for yourself

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Hheterosexual people. I'm not heterosexual. That's the point I keep trying to make. I'm not gay. I'm not straight. I'm not bi. This is about gender and sexuality, not hair color, breast size, or some other physical attribute.

I appreciate your words, though. And thanks for another take on the subject.

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Originally Posted by peggygee

I don't get a sense that you personally fetishize transwomen, I feel that
you have been around them long enough to where that isn't the case.

I feel that you have a great respect for transwomen, and I hold you in
very high esteem for your willingness and ability to do so openly. For
many of the men who are professing love and respect for transwomen,
I am seeing these are but hollow words, for you that is far from the case.

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gracias, peggy. :) mucho gracias.


And on this point:

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And I am speaking only for myself or for other women that share this
viewpoint:

I never felt comfortable with my penis, I rarely used it, it was a source
of intense emotional and physical pain, and eventually I had gender
reassigment siurgery to rectify that situation.

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One of my dearest friends is going through this now. She started feeling this way when she was 4. She's now 21. The pain and suffering she goes through is, like you said, intense.

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Thus anyone that is or was attracted to me primarilly for that attribute
would not be the optimum mate for me. Fortunately the majority of men
that I had been involved with were not interested in my penis.

They didn't try to suck me off, they didn't want me to fuck them, but they
also didn't freak out, treat me like a dirty little secret, or be reviled by my
genitilia.

All of the men that I have been iin relationships with, I have met their
families, and their friends. There was never any down low activity, no
I don't know you in public activity. We went out to movies, concerts,
dining, shopping, travelling, etc, basically they treated me like any other
woman.

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I can see why so many transwomen are suspicious of men...considering the track record. Being in a relationship with a transwomen and sharing our bodies with each other, it was only natural that the activities that you described above as well as many more would take place between her and I. Was it all I wanted? Not even close. I preferred, like most, the intimate times, holding each other, kissing, laughing, sharing, learning about each other. Like I stated in my last post, it *feels* so right for me.

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Maybe I got spoiled, maybe my years in hetero-world have caused me to
have unrealistic expectations now that I have returned to trannyville. My
years of living, working, and functioning in the mainstream have
accustomed me to a certain standard of living.

I haven't had to face discrimination whether it be as a person of color or
as a woman for many years. I have been fortunate that my transtatus
hadn't been the hinderance to me that it has been to some.

Coming back to the transcommunity reminds me of the many reasons why
I left it, and while I had hoped or assumed that many things had changed,
I guess the more things change the more they stay the same.

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I can so understand what you're speaking of. Being in this community, entering into it can be incredibly draining due to the negativity within and without. And, yeah, the more things change, the more they stay the same. But I wonder, did change ever really take place? I think on a small personal level for some of us it has. On larger scale, we have a long way to go.


Thanks, peggy, for responding. Your experience and wisdom is always greatly appreciated and admired by me. :)

[quote="whatsupwithat"]

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Originally Posted by alpha2117

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It's not that you dont respect or treat them with respect but you say yourself that you are solely attracted to ts women which means one of two things and given all your other response it seems more that you have a fetishistic attachment to them. Nothing wrong with that either.

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Thanks for the response. I feel I've made it abundantly clear that it isn't fetish for me. I passed beyond that long ago. I've been in the community since I was around 15. My first long term relationship with a ts was in my early 20's. We lived together for 13.5 years. It passes far beyond fetish at that point. I could go on and on about my feelings and my activism and whatnot in the community, but I am very aware that this is not a fetish for me. I am almost of the mind that it's hormonal in some way. My physical makeup is at play here. What I keep trying to impress and keeps being missed is that this is deeply internal.

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Plenty of heterosexual people have the same deal, some guys will only date blondes, or girls with flat chests. Essentially if someone has a strict type and thats the only type they are attracted too at all then its really a bit fetishistic, which is really only a overwhelming peference. If it was only a preference then it's just that a preference and you could date gg's if you met one who you liked but by your statements you just wouldn't fancy that. The human mind is complex and like i said if thats the way your brain is wired dont sweat the labels. Most everyone on the planet has an overwhelming preference in some aspect of their life. It's normal. I really dont think you need to worry about a label for yourself

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Hheterosexual people. I'm not heterosexual. That's the point I keep trying to make. I'm not gay. I'm not straight. I'm not bi. This is about gender and sexuality, not hair color, breast size, or some other physical attribute.

I appreciate your words, though. And thanks for another take on the subject.

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Well spoken E...you've said pretty much expressed everything i feel as well

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Originally Posted by francisfkudrow

While I have no degree in psychology or any other discipline that would make me qualified to come up with theories on the subject, it occurred to me that there a 3 dimensions of a person's sexuality...

1) Their identity (whether they identify as male or female)
2) Their genital preference
and
3) The aesthetic preference (that is whether they like the face/body/style of men or women)

If you factor in all the different combinations, including those with no preference in the last two, you have 18 "types"...

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Type MMF: Identifies as male, prefers male genitalia, but prefers the female aesthetic (a man who dates transsexuals, what might be referred to in slang as a "tranny chaser")

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Brilliant! There's a career for you in taxonomy if you're interested. ;) Yes, I would categorize myself as MMF on this scale: totally identify as male; perfer male genitalia (my only interest in sexual encounters with other men has always been genital: I love cock; however, it's a preference and not exclusive, as I also quite enjoy pussy, but will not actively seek it out); and I strongly prefer the female aesthetic (thus men hold no attraction for me, other than genital; I am and have always been powerfully attracted to feminine aesthetics).

One flaw in this scale, however, and that goes to its assumed perspective: it's a subjective scale, reflecting only the preferences of the subject (the "type") and not those of the type's object: man, woman, or transwoman. That's OK in and of itself (in fact, I think this is a very valuable way of looking at one's own sexuality), but it begs the question I mentioned above regarding how the object, in the case of a transwoman, perceives herself, as a woman, as a transgendered male, or as a third sex. Assuming that a specific transwoman (whether pre-, post-, or non-op) sees herself as a woman, there is the dichotomy to which Peggy refers, in that you are attracted to this woman for the very thing which she may most reject about herself. Yes, she may in fact quite enjoy using her male bits in love play, but still, if she identifies as a woman, this sets up the conflict to which Peggy refers. (If, on the other hand, she identifies as transsexual or third sex, this dichotomy does not exist in this instance.)

[quote="ottorocket"]

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Originally Posted by whatsupwithat

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Originally Posted by alpha2117

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It's not that you dont respect or treat them with respect but you say yourself that you are solely attracted to ts women which means one of two things and given all your other response it seems more that you have a fetishistic attachment to them. Nothing wrong with that either.

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Thanks for the response. I feel I've made it abundantly clear that it isn't fetish for me. I passed beyond that long ago. I've been in the community since I was around 15. My first long term relationship with a ts was in my early 20's. We lived together for 13.5 years. It passes far beyond fetish at that point. I could go on and on about my feelings and my activism and whatnot in the community, but I am very aware that this is not a fetish for me. I am almost of the mind that it's hormonal in some way. My physical makeup is at play here. What I keep trying to impress and keeps being missed is that this is deeply internal.

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Plenty of heterosexual people have the same deal, some guys will only date blondes, or girls with flat chests. Essentially if someone has a strict type and thats the only type they are attracted too at all then its really a bit fetishistic, which is really only a overwhelming peference. If it was only a preference then it's just that a preference and you could date gg's if you met one who you liked but by your statements you just wouldn't fancy that. The human mind is complex and like i said if thats the way your brain is wired dont sweat the labels. Most everyone on the planet has an overwhelming preference in some aspect of their life. It's normal. I really dont think you need to worry about a label for yourself

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Hheterosexual people. I'm not heterosexual. That's the point I keep trying to make. I'm not gay. I'm not straight. I'm not bi. This is about gender and sexuality, not hair color, breast size, or some other physical attribute.

I appreciate your words, though. And thanks for another take on the subject.

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Well spoken E...you've said pretty much expressed everything i feel as well

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Thanks, otto. Much appreciated. i think we should start a website of some kind where guys like us can establish ourselves and build a community, get a voice. Maybe then we'll be taken seriously.

Or maybe we already have one here...

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Originally Posted by Ecstatic

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Originally Posted by francisfkudrow

While I have no degree in psychology or any other discipline that would make me qualified to come up with theories on the subject, it occurred to me that there a 3 dimensions of a person's sexuality...

1) Their identity (whether they identify as male or female)
2) Their genital preference
and
3) The aesthetic preference (that is whether they like the face/body/style of men or women)

If you factor in all the different combinations, including those with no preference in the last two, you have 18 "types"...

..................

Type MMF: Identifies as male, prefers male genitalia, but prefers the female aesthetic (a man who dates transsexuals, what might be referred to in slang as a "tranny chaser")

---

Brilliant! There's a career for you in taxonomy if you're interested. ;) Yes, I would categorize myself as MMF on this scale: totally identify as male; perfer male genitalia (my only interest in sexual encounters with other men has always been genital: I love cock; however, it's a preference and not exclusive, as I also quite enjoy pussy, but will not actively seek it out); and I strongly prefer the female aesthetic (thus men hold no attraction for me, other than genital; I am and have always been powerfully attracted to feminine aesthetics).

One flaw in this scale, however, and that goes to its assumed perspective: it's a subjective scale, reflecting only the preferences of the subject (the "type") and not those of the type's object: man, woman, or transwoman. That's OK in and of itself (in fact, I think this is a very valuable way of looking at one's own sexuality), but it begs the question I mentioned above regarding how the object, in the case of a transwoman, perceives herself, as a woman, as a transgendered male, or as a third sex. Assuming that a specific transwoman (whether pre-, post-, or non-op) sees herself as a woman, there is the dichotomy to which Peggy refers, in that you are attracted to this woman for the very thing which she may most reject about herself. Yes, she may in fact quite enjoy using her male bits in love play, but still, if she identifies as a woman, this sets up the conflict to which Peggy refers. (If, on the other hand, she identifies as transsexual or third sex, this dichotomy does not exist in this instance.)

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You're loving this, aren't you? :P

:)

Got me.....

So this all to much to think about and too many aspects to consider. But honestly I can understand someone being solely attracted to transsexuals.

Yes I am a woman, this is how I identify myself. Yes I am a person, a complete human being with feelings, intelligence and everything else that makes a human a human. Even though I will always identify as being a woman and nothign more I cannot deny that I am sooooooooo different than a natal female. And natal females are soooooo different than me. My story will always be different, I cant talk abotu my past and say when I was a little girl or anything like that, even though I belive I have always been a girl that is not how society labled me. There for I have a "dimention" that natal females will never have.

I think, and I am not saying this is what he is saying but what I think he is saying. There needs to be a word for people solely attracted to transsexuals. People must also not forget that there is a differance between fetish and sexual orientation. Soem men might only be into transsexual and see it as a fetish. But there are men who are not into transsexuals as a fetish. I am a person as I stated before, I have a different dimmention to me and I feel like this is why some men might be attracted to transsexuals solely. Not because we have or have had penisus but because of who we are. I will always see the world a bit different and from a different aspect than a GG, why because I wasnt born with a vagina and because I wasnt raised as one. I will always be different and I cant deny that.

Also though please Tranny Chasers dont try to identify as a label you are not. If you are just into transsexual because its a fetish then stay with that. Dont start identifying as being into transsexuals because of what I just stated above. I woudl hate to see a word be created and tehn all of a sudden guys that are into transsexuals only as a fetish or for sex make it out to be looked as a bad word!


francisfkudrow GENIUS!!!! I feel like thats even better than the Kinsey Scale. But if I could suggest something. Instead of putting female genitalia and male genitalia if you could just say vagina and penis or both for inteersexed people. I think taht would be a better idea. My genitalia is not MALE. I have a penis but its not MALE. Just my thoughts. You can ignore if you like, just thought id share that with you. The reson why I say this is because I feel like labeling egnitalia male of female is the cause of allot of issues. That causes doctors to identify a baby as one gender or another when they have no CLUE. I think if they were just to say this baby has a vagina or a penis or both but wouldnt label it as male or female, because honestly how do they know for sure that baby is going to identify as male or female later in their lives. And also if people got to the idea that men can have a penis or a vagina or both and women can have a vagina or a penis or both then it woudl make life easier for alot of people.

SOrry for the mispellings. When ever I start talking and have words in my head that want to get out, I cant help but try to go fast tehre fore causeing so many misspellings.

If you are going to attack me. Whatever. I will not explain myself to someone that is attacking me. If you have any question ask in an intellectual level PLEASE!

Excellent suggestion, Luna. I remember one time Gia Darling described a penis as being very feminine if it's a tgirl's penis. Also, another transwoman I know prefers the term "phallic woman" (she's non-op, identifies wholly as a woman, but enjoys her penis and like you says that she's a woman with a penis).

We are too hung up on genitalia, imho.

Thank you Ecstatic! And I agree we are really hung up on genitalia.