trannies with real jobs

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Originally Posted by Shining Star

Why make $12/hour at a proper job when one can make $350 hoeing? Hmm the answer comes on many forms.

1. "Working" is illegal, and not everyone relishes the idea of engaging in criminal acts, no matter how it's sugar coated as "victimless"

2. The deeper love of self and pride and respect that comes from being a productive and contributing member of society. The ability to hold one's head high and give a truthful answer when asked "what do you do for a living"?

3. The satisfaction the comes from doing an honest days work and knowing your income does not rely upon being intimate with persons you normally wouldn't give the time of day to on the street. Having those same persons on some level think they are better than yourself, after all you offered yourself to them for money.

There are lots of natural women working in positions that pay very little, by some rationale expressed here they all should go on the game.

The "Madonna/Whore" syndrome is very much still alive, and many men (despite what they may say) do not respect "working girls". They may have relations with them, even go around with them socially, but that is about the extent of things.

As for the trannies, if working was such a picnic, why are many of them so "angry" & "bitter"? Again, if you were depending upon being with several men per day or week for your daily bread, how content would you be? Things might be different if the men all gorgeous young males (of whatever race/nationality that floats your boat). Were polite and showed up to do nothing but make the girl happy, but the reality is far different.

Another thing is the constant stress of daily life engaged in criminal activity. Wondering who knows what, dealing with nosy neighbors, dealing with nasty comments. Or the flip side, people who know your game and want a cut. Doormen, pimps, lazy bfs, what have you can hold a working girl's occupation over her head to get what they want. The girls have little recourse and very little options.

Finally there is probably the incredible loneliness that comes from leading such life. Outside of a circle of people engaged in simliar or other acts, society can be very limited. Even when girls do go out, there is always the chance of being outed not only as a trannie, but as a hooker/sex worker as well. If you think the former changes how people view a person, the later has even more weight.

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Get off your high horse buddy.......

And as far as #1 goes, Bill O'Reilly would be proud of you....

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Originally Posted by Unisex

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Either you have drawn the wrong inference, or I am mis-understanding
your statement. I'm not reading in this or any other thread that the
majority of transwomen are engaged in the porn or escort field, but
rather that the majority are in other occupations.

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Why would it be misunderstanding? I never stated the majority of them escort. I just said, they seem to be minority. In my zip code. Not yours or any others.

There was a few females posters who in the past made a similar statement that the chance of man finding a Transexual for a relationship who does NOT escort was very low. I'll see if I can search on this board who posted it. But, it was posted few times before and no one disputed it. But, when a guy makes the same statement, it's taken as shade.

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I stand corrected.

I'm going to blame it on my having a 'blonde moment'. I'm seriously
going to have to cut back on the peroxide, it's seeping into my brain. :lol:

On the point about those other chicas, saying than a man will never find
a non escort for a realtionship, tell them Peggy said they need to broaden
their circles too, and that they can feel free to flame me for saying it.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2...3/flame5x4.jpg

And finally, you may have a better understanding of this 'thing of ours'
than I thought.

You're picking up the lanquage, and that's no shade. 8)

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Originally Posted by peggygee

I 'm still reading the study, so I can't comment on it.

250,000 escorts, crikey I think we are approaching market saturation. :shock:

I wonder about your figure of 750,000 transseuxuals. Are you referring to
the total transgendered and gender variant populace, if so, when you get
a chance please take look at these figures

http://www.hungangels.com/board/view...=12755&start=0

I'm also gong to have to beg to differ with the 70% figure in the cities.
I may or may not know some or all the same transwomen that you know,
but of the 70% that I do know, they are not engaged in the sex industry.

I would agree that there are many tranwomen that have lead very
sheltered and cloistered lives. And au contraire to some of the
transwomen that you have alluded to, I by no means have lead a
sheltered life.

My roller coaster life has taken me to some heaven like highs and some
hell like lows, literally and metaphorically. During that ride and currently
I have known transwomen from all stratas, like I was telling my good
friend Unisex.

We also agree that there is a problem, we further agree that education
and a decent standard of living would go a long way to rectifying it.

My question though to you or others with a vested interest in this problem,
is how to we go about making that happen.

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Hi Peggy:
The first part of this is a reply to your very valid comments. The rest a continuation of my rant... enjoy. :-)

And not meaning to disrespect anyone I tend to get outspokend on occasion so please give me a break and don't flame me, but make any legitimate comments you may have.

I guess we all sometimes need to vent - and with my last post I was really hoping and trying to open a small business. I've put a lot of time into it, and that guy laughing at me the other day and saying to call back in a YEAR to get on a list for a space, after hearing roughly the same thing 20 other times really depressed me.

As to my quote of a figure of 750,000 TS's in the USA. The quote came from the article on Gender - the cover story for the May 21st NEWSWEEK magazine.

The full quote is the "National Center for Transgender Equallity is between 750,000 and 3 MILLION Americans..." are transgendered.

So concieveably if ONLY 30% are in the sex industry it's a MILLION or more not the 250,000 I referenced! My guess is the reality is much less though.

As for my 70% guess - Peggy, your comment is probably true. As I mentioned it was just my own personal "estimate" for my local area, which is a core city center and the "studies" show between 30-and 50% of all MtF's are in the sex industry. T's seem to concentrate in cities like SF, SD, NYC, Seattle, Houston, etc. So places like Tuscon will probably be far less.

But all the studies except the one linked in my first post are grossly out of date. And that one has flawed data.

How can you do a study and come up with realistic figures and leave out (by their own admission, page 49 I think) up to 50% of the subjects. Then things like medical insurance percentages, etc are skewed. On page 28 for example they report 27% of trans people have no health insurance - but if you left out 50% of the community - most of whom are street hookers - you have closer to 75% uninsured.

So all I'm saying is if we are going to toss figures around at least let's get the RIGHT numbers in the first place. People who don't know the reality get a skewed impression.

You ask how do we change it?

According to many people both on this site, and "mainstream" trans community and the world in general, I'm a sleezy whore, so I'm not sure you will like the rest of this.

But here's what I see...

The "mainstream" trans community doesn't seem to have a clue. I was recently at the Western TS Leadership Conference at USC, where about 250 program leaders and other transfolk were present.

One lady was crowing about a job fair they had put on. And that is great, and I understand that the trans civil rights movement is less than 10 years old (Stonewall notwithstanding) and it IS a CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. She was proud, they had the police dept, and Northrup and other areospace companies. She couldn't tell me how many people had been hired though.

My guess would be none... because as I told her "half the ts community" has either mental problems or an arrest record or both, and the PD isn't going to hire them, most don't have engineering degrees and Boeing sure isn't going to hire them...

I was told I was too critical. I asked her what she does for work? She's an attorney. She makes her 250 grand a year...

THIS is one problem. Half the community has no clue how the other half lives and doesn't want to know. The half that COULD make a difference doesn't want anything to do with those who really need assistance.

So it falls to either government or non-profits.

Government in the guise of law enforcement wants one thing. To put all sex workers in jail so they can justify their jobs. NOWHERE is there any program that I am aware of to help ensure sex workers are able to successfully transition out of the field. In San Diego, they put girls under 18 in jail for 6 months - while the "johns" walk with a ticket. This destroys the girls future and their self respect and teaches them they are bad people and doing something wrong. Sex, even sex for money is NOT wrong unless you have some sort of religious skewed viewpoint. And sex by the hour or sex by getting married , the guy still pays the end.

There are splintered non-profit groups all over the place, many are getting grant money. But in most places there are virtually NO services. In San Diego there is NO support group (a couple of small grassroots attempts). What there was fell apart.

The local Center drove the young adults out of their youth center a couple of years ago, limiting the center to those under 18 or 20 (I forget). But it's the 20-26 year old group who needs a LOT of support. They are just starting out, often barely making it. My young partner (she was 21) was getting her only meal of the day from the youth center before we met, as were other trans kids. These kids were just told one day they could not longer use the facility.

And then they wonder why kids turn to sex work. Takes a genuis to figure that one out???

A small group of the young adults has since been trying to keep a small support group together. The Center provids them a room once a week, and zero funding. And so what did the gay and trans community do last year - the leader of the group was a prostitute on the side. They found out, gave her an award and kicked her ass out the door. I swear to God. The message sent by our own community is "prostitutes need not apply."

In LA there is the Gender Center, a for-profit business, and in Orange County a very small grass roots group. That's it for TS support in So Cal one of the top three TS centers in the nation.

There is NO support for TS sex workers (that I am aware of).

Here in San Diego there was a $300,000 grant given to a local agency for TG services and god knows where the money went. I've seen their workers handing out condoms at a bar on two occasions... They even gave me 5. giggle... Gee thanks, I'll try not to use them all the same day. (I get them by the case BTW.)

Let's start there:
Sex workers don't need condoms, THEY NEED JOBS, AND JOB TRAINING AND DECENT PLACES TO LIVE.

It's just dumb to expect people with no job skills who can make six figures part time without geting out of bed, to take a menial job at minumum wage. It just isn't going to happen. Youcan make people feel bad about themselves all you want - but sweeties - let me tell you it's a lot more miserable to be unhappy if you are poor than if you are rich. I've been both.

They need nuturing support organizations where they can go consistantly to get help with the various things in life. They need access to counseling - not counseling as happened to a girlfriend of mine who was depressed so her counselor had her locked up on a 5150 (mental arrest) when she opened up about how she truly felt. If you want to alienate and drive people out of the system that's a great way to start. That girl will never trust or go to a counselor again and probably will eventually kill herself.

Sex workeres need EASY access to RESPECTFUL, no hassel, std testing on a REGULAR basis. Here in San Diego we have to use several different clinics as they don't want to test you here unless you are showing symptoms of an std or do an hiv test more than every 3 months.

Then we need... and not just sex workers, but ALL trans people. We need programs funded to assist trans people into careers they are capable of doing. Not everyone is interested or able to attend college. Some want to be car mechanics, or cosmeticians or nurses.

There are programs available, but trans people often don't know about them or have access and many are simply unable to negociate the paperwork required to enroll. Oftentimes these programs are discriminatory and difficult to get into - or lead to industries that are not condusive to transsexuals - welding, construction, etc.

MANY transsexuals are simply not capable of working at all due to medical or mental issues. Those people are mostly covered after drug or suicide intervention they get on disability and have a least a minimal subsistance.

It's the rest who need services and assistance. Especially those in the sex industry and those who are isolated by conditions - I correspond occasionally with a young T-girl friend of ours living in a tiny "company town" in Alaska. I am hoping she doesn't off herself or get murdered by some drunk local homophobe before she is able to get out. She is alone and virtually at one end of the world and well on her way to alcoholisim at age 21.

Many trans people, while they are socially and educationally functional need assistance with things like procurring student loans, they need special assistance in preparing for and obtaining GOOD jobs at a reasonable wage. Negociating the bureaucratic morrass is virtually insurmountable for many if not most people. Just dealing with my partners students loans and college transfer has been damm near a full time job since last fall.

My partner and I do not live extravagantly. Our one car is 5 years old. We live in a moderatly upscale apt. community with a pool, spa and health center, etc. a nice part of town. We enjoy a middle class lifestyle, as do most sex workers I know. But between rent, food, gas, insurance, (no medical - add another $400 a month for that) school supplies, hormones, etc our expenses push $4,000 a month.

We could quit the biz, each get two f/t jobs, Jessica could drop out of school thereby ensuring she never has a chance in life, and just squeek by, until somebody got sick. We wouldn't be in the sex industry but two years ago we were living in a motel, three days from the street. So we did what we did, and we do what we do. And YES, it so happens that for the most part I DO like what I do - jeeze I get paid to have sex with my lover... who can say that. Giggle. But do I want to do it forever? No.

So the first step needs to be acceptance of others by those in our own community (and on this site) who's lives may not corrsepond to others. The trans community demands acceptance, but I've found many trans people to be the most unaccepting people I know.

The second is we need to orgainze groups who can obtain serious grant money to offer services. This money is coming available as we become more visible in the world.

Third we need to develop programs to train and educate and FOLLOW UP with trans folk, on a local and national level.

We also need to continue the inroads on basic CIVIL and HUMAN rights laws and protections. California is pretty good, but the rest of the nation needs to follow. We need to deal with the "real ID" act laws and gender ID and stop jailing people according to their genitals.

We need to be visible in the community and PROUD of who we are.

We need to join together, pool our funds and open trans OWNED businesses.

We need to eliminate the repressive laws that penalize women for having sex.

We need to realize and accept that we are all individuals and we need to be tolerant of each other.

End of rant.

Giggle,
TS Jamie[/u]

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The full quote is the "National Center for Transgender Equallity is between 750,000 and 3 MILLION Americans..." are transgendered.

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Woah, but there is a huge difference between transgendered and transsexual... since TG is such a catch-all term.

It was my understanding that this thread was talking about people who have, or in the process of transitioning and employment which IMO is vastly different from the experiences of say, "a normal person in the mainstream" married with kids who cds in the bedroom when no one is home in complete privacy....

I don't mean that as to imply I believe one condition is superior to the other, just that they are different enough to have different impacts on a daily bases (this is a generalization of course). I also am under the impression that cd/tv is vastly more common then G.I.D. and subsequently if we're looking at 3/4 of a mill to 3 mill, the number of strictly TS people will be significantly less than that- probably less than half IMO.

Of course, I also question any statistics that tries to predict how many people are trans given how many people (of both conditions to look at this as a medical standpoint) try to avoid being known as trans (be it a closeted cd/tv or a ts in stealth- or rather trying to be in the illusion of stealth). How exactly did the study arrive at that statistic? Can it be trusted?

Random thoughts...

When every other escort is a transsexual and transsexuals are only one of every 10,000 (?) people...it creates a perception and perception more often than not becomes reality.

I am waiting for the day when being the most beautiful or sexy is not mutually exclusive from finding cures, getting a pulitzer or nobel prize, being a leader.

More often than not, the most attractive women are not the most attractive.

Change, adapt, have courage. And others will have the courage to change and adapt to you. Don't wait, do.

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Originally Posted by justatransgirl

The "mainstream" trans community doesn't seem to have a clue.

So the first step needs to be acceptance of others by those in our own community (and on this site) who's lives may not corrsepond to others. The trans community demands acceptance, but I've found many trans people to be the most unaccepting people I know.

The second is we need to orgainze groups who can obtain serious grant money to offer services. This money is coming available as we become more visible in the world.

Third we need to develop programs to train and educate and FOLLOW UP with trans folk, on a local and national level.

We also need to continue the inroads on basic CIVIL and HUMAN rights laws and protections. California is pretty good, but the rest of the nation needs to follow. We need to deal with the "real ID" act laws and gender ID and stop jailing people according to their genitals.

We need to be visible in the community and PROUD of who we are.

We need to join together, pool our funds and open trans OWNED businesses.

We need to eliminate the repressive laws that penalize women for having sex.

We need to realize and accept that we are all individuals and we need to be tolerant of each other.

End of rant.

Giggle,
TS Jamie[/u]

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Oh wow. You nailed it!

Bravo!

I so agree with what you wrote above. It's not just about having the programs, it's about following through on the programs and with girls. It's about all of us working together being proud of who we are!!!

If I could, I'd ask you to have my baby!! Who knows, maybe some trans scientist will come up with a way! :)

:claps :claps :claps :claps :claps :claps :rock2 :rock2 :rock2 :rock2 :rock2 :claps :claps :claps :claps :claps

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justatransgirl

The "mainstream" trans community doesn't seem to have a clue.

So the first step needs to be acceptance of others by those in our own community (and on this site) who's lives may not corrsepond to others. The trans community demands acceptance, but I've found many trans people to be the most unaccepting people I know.

The second is we need to orgainze groups who can obtain serious grant money to offer services. This money is coming available as we become more visible in the world.

Third we need to develop programs to train and educate and FOLLOW UP with trans folk, on a local and national level.

We also need to continue the inroads on basic CIVIL and HUMAN rights laws and protections. California is pretty good, but the rest of the nation needs to follow. We need to deal with the "real ID" act laws and gender ID and stop jailing people according to their genitals.

We need to be visible in the community and PROUD of who we are.

We need to join together, pool our funds and open trans OWNED businesses.

We need to eliminate the repressive laws that penalize women for having sex.

We need to realize and accept that we are all individuals and we need to be tolerant of each other.

End of rant.

Giggle,
TS Jamie

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I made some similar points when I discussed alternatives to escorting. My points were ignored though :roll: Your rant should be a sticky for all the girls to see.

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Originally Posted by Kabuki

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justatransgirl

The "mainstream" trans community doesn't seem to have a clue.

So the first step needs to be acceptance of others by those in our own community (and on this site) who's lives may not corrsepond to others. The trans community demands acceptance, but I've found many trans people to be the most unaccepting people I know.

The second is we need to orgainze groups who can obtain serious grant money to offer services. This money is coming available as we become more visible in the world.

Third we need to develop programs to train and educate and FOLLOW UP with trans folk, on a local and national level.

We also need to continue the inroads on basic CIVIL and HUMAN rights laws and protections. California is pretty good, but the rest of the nation needs to follow. We need to deal with the "real ID" act laws and gender ID and stop jailing people according to their genitals.

We need to be visible in the community and PROUD of who we are.

We need to join together, pool our funds and open trans OWNED businesses.

We need to eliminate the repressive laws that penalize women for having sex.

We need to realize and accept that we are all individuals and we need to be tolerant of each other.

End of rant.

Giggle,
TS Jamie

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I made some similar points when I discussed alternatives to escorting. My points were ignored though :roll: Your rant should be a sticky for all the girls to see.

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I agree.

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Originally Posted by SarahG

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Originally Posted by odelay24

just because selling your body earns you lots of money, it doesn't justify it.

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IMO it is a completely legitimate field to work in. Just because it is generally illegal in the US in recent times doesn't mean it is something that needs justification any more or less than any other random job (and before anyone asks; no I am not nor have I ever been an escort).

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I'm not talking about justifying to yourself breaking the law. There's nothing wrong with breaking the law.

I mean justifying it to yourself morally.

But if someone is ok with doing it, then yeah, they should just go for it.

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Originally Posted by odelay24

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Originally Posted by SarahG

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Originally Posted by odelay24

just because selling your body earns you lots of money, it doesn't justify it.

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IMO it is a completely legitimate field to work in. Just because it is generally illegal in the US in recent times doesn't mean it is something that needs justification any more or less than any other random job (and before anyone asks; no I am not nor have I ever been an escort).

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I'm not talking about justifying to yourself breaking the law. There's nothing wrong with breaking the law.

I mean justifying it to yourself morally.

But if someone is ok with doing it, then yeah, they should just go for it.

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But it i s not illegal everywhere in this country let alone everywhere in western civilization...