Re: Occupy Wall Street protest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
Just kills you though that those workers (many of which are indeed union members and many of which aren't) are cheering the occupiers on. 1% of Americans have taken possession of 90% of America's wealth. Corporations are making record profits, but can't seem to get motivated to create a single job. Meanwhile half of the goods responsible for their profits are being produced by American workers with their bare hands working at the highest level of productivity in our history__the other half of the goods are being produced overseas by underpaid women and children who are lucky to make dollars a day.
Just because you belong to the top 1% of the wealthy doesn't mean you're a "job creator". Is Paris Hilton a job creator? Does she deserve a tax break for her contributions to our economy? Demand for products is down. Demand for luxury goods is up. Charity giving is down. Donations for opera up. You tell me what's going on here.
While the large corporations are shoveling in the profits, they use public roads, public bridges, communications systems launched with public money, they depend on municipal and state police to keep their products safe from theft. They use the court system to enforce the contracts they make with each other. Without the 99% the 1% are useless. Is the 99% useless without the 1%. I think not.
The odds of you joining the 1% are miniscule. It doesn't just depend on hard work and determination. The most important factors are contingencies over which you have no control. But you can, through elections, take over the government. You can elect officials who promise to regulate the large corporate interests and the big commercial banks. You can elect officials who will appoint judges that understand that the current campaign financing laws are unjust. Corporations are not people. Shouting down your political opponent with money is not freedom of speech. Shouting is anathema to rational discussion.
:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
Re: Occupy Wall Street protest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
Ever see GE tax bill. It's staggeringly small.
Absolutely....good lobbyists, good tax attorneys, and a real good friend on Pennsylvania Ave. In fact...isn't the former GE CEO Obama's jobs czar? LMAO...With friends like that...who needs Chinese child labor? Wonder how come the OWS crowd doesn't have an opinion on that one?
Re: Occupy Wall Street protest
And so your point is destroyed. Large corporations have been paying piddling taxes ever since the Bush tax cuts and large corporations are now making record profits. They've restructured and are making do with a more productive, smaller workforce. They have no inclination to "create" more jobs.
Re: Occupy Wall Street protest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
And so your point is destroyed. Large corporations have been paying piddling taxes ever since the Bush tax cuts. Has nothing to do with Obama. And large corporations are making record profits. They've restructured and are making do with a more productive, smaller workforce. They have no inclination to "create" more jobs.
something is wrong with our system but having these dirty things protesting outside our financial institutions is definitely not the way
Re: Occupy Wall Street protest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
And so your point is destroyed. Large corporations have been paying piddling taxes ever since the Bush tax cuts. Has nothing to do with Obama. And large corporations are making record profits. They've restructured and are making do with a more productive, smaller workforce. They have no inclination to "create" more jobs.
Poor comeback Trish......GE paid no corporate income tax, but the vast majority of all US corporations did. Aren't you the one who always lectures us not to judge the actions of the many by the misdeeds of a few?
And part of the point of the post was to show how Obama sees the world. Who does he appoint as his jobs Czar? A guy who's company paid no corporate income tax, shipped thousands of jobs, and all the profits off shore, and secured millions in federal loans and contracts while doing so. Nice work if ya can get it. Immelt as the person spearheading the effort to create jobs for the administration is like hiring Pretty Boy Floyd to guard the felons !
And so the question remains....why has Obama been unscarred by the Protest Wall Street Crowd? He's taken more in campaign contributions from them than anyone in history, and all of his financial team are former Wall Street fraternity brothers. Interesting.
And companies are indeed sitting on record amounts of cash, but it's not the reason you lament. It's uncertainty. Obama has bashed and demonized the job creators for 3 years, while piling up health care costs, EPA regulations, executive orders, and calls for increased taxes on them....and now he implores them to start hiring? You reap what you sow Barry.
Re: Occupy Wall Street protest
Pathetic retort OMK. Giant corporations are making record profits each and every year and they're suffering uncertainty? Bullshit. They've restructured and have no intention of creating new jobs. Austerity measures will kill more jobs and decrease demand and along with it any corporate motivation to create new jobs.
You forgot that we launch their communications satellites, we provide at great expense the legal system and courts that make enterprise possible. We provide the security from fire and theft. We provide, in spite of their efforts, safe water for their coolers as well as their industrial applications. Enterprise doesn't happen in a vacuum. It requires a transportation infrastructure, a communications infrastructure, a legal infrastructure, a security infrastructure etc. all of which the 99% help pay for and the 1% use disproportionately to reap historically record profits.
In my State the roads are paid for by ordinary tax payers at the pumps. We educate the people who work for the corporations, laborers and executives. Giant farms get State subsidies. In my rural town the taxpayers pay for an airport that only the wealthy use. And to draw big corporations to our state and keep them in our State and Cities we give their factories and their outlets all sorts of tax breaks, tax incentives and free tax zones (all in addition to the Bush tax cuts). No fucking wonder they're making out like bandits. 1% of people have taken possession of 90% of our wealth__and they're uncertain?! Bullshit.
Re: Occupy Wall Street protest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
Pathetic retort OMK. Giant corporations are making record profits each and every year and they're suffering uncertainty? Bullshit. They've restructured and have no intention of creating new jobs. Austerity measures will kill more jobs and decrease demand and along with it any corporate motivation to create new jobs.
You forgot that we launch their communications satellites, we provide at great expense the legal system and courts that make enterprise possible. We provide the security from fire and theft. We provide, in spite of their efforts, safe water for their coolers as well as their industrial applications. Enterprise doesn't happen in a vacuum. It requires a transportation infrastructure, a communications infrastructure, a legal infrastructure, a security infrastructure etc. all of which the 99% help pay for and the 1% use disproportionately to reap historically record profits.
In my State the roads are paid for by ordinary tax payers at the pumps. We educate the people who work for the corporations, laborers and executives. Giant farms get State subsidies. In my rural town the taxpayers pay for an airport that only the wealthy use. And to draw big corporations to our state and keep them in our State and Cities we give their factories and their outlets all sorts of tax breaks, tax incentives and free tax zones (all in addition to the Bush tax cuts). No fucking wonder they're making out like bandits. 1% of people have taken possession of 90% of our wealth__and they're uncertain?! Bullshit.
Again...you would have us believe corporations are leeches sucking off the little guy. That's not only laughable, it's a false narrative. If you want to remove the farm subsidies and other loop holes...you'll get no argument from me. You lament cities and towns offering tax breaks to attract business. Why do they do that if corporations are as you say ? Perhaps you know things they don't? Perhaps these cities were never versed in
Keynesian economics like you appearently were?
They do it to increase the tax base, attract more workers to the municipality that in turn also pay more taxes, and businesses attract other satellite businesses.
Now less emotion and more facts....Price Waterhouse released a comprehensive study on the effective tax rate of the worlds 2000 largest corporations. For clarification...The effective tax rate is the share of global pretax income that actually is paid in taxes to various levels of government in the U.S. and abroad.
The study essentially found that U.S. corporations paid an average effective tax rate of 27.7 percent from 2006 to 2009, compared with an average of 19.5 percent for foreign-based corporations. The U.S. effective tax rate was the sixth-highest among the 61 countries that are home to large corporations, behind Japan, Morocco, Italy, Indonesia, and Germany.
Business pays taxes on their profits...not sales. So you and the crew down in the Park are being duped if you and your protestor friends believe statements like this..."Company X had 5 million in sales and paid no income tax" As you may know...profit margins on most business is very small. The average net margin in the supermarket business is just 1 to 2 percent of sales, for instance, which means that a company with $50 million in sales would earn, on average just $500,000-to-$1 million annually and pay taxes on that money. Many firms in the industry, of course, would be below that average, and some would lose money in any year. Here's a quick look at what some large US corporations paid in corporate Income taxes....AT&T 8.3 billion, Exxon, Mobil and Conoco all paid over 10 billion ...a 40% effective rate. Wal-Mart an effective rate of 33% or 7 billion. Verizon 9 billion.
Your anti business mantra is based purely on ideology, and not facts. You wanna squeeze business even more? ...say hello to more US jobs flowing over to India and China.
Or as Ross Perot liked to say..."that huge sucking sound is US jobs leaving" You seem perplexed that business sees Obama as the most anti business president in a generation. He's whipped them like a mule for 3 years both rhetorically and with over regulation, now he wants them to start hiring? Sorry Barry. You made your bed.
By the way....have you and the 99ers come up with a defination of who exactly is "wealthy"?
Re: Occupy Wall Street protest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
onmyknees
Again...you would have us believe corporations are leeches sucking off the little guy. That's not only laughable, it's a false narrative. If you want to remove the farm subsidies and other loop holes...you'll get no argument from me. You lament cities and towns offering tax breaks to attractive business. Why do they do that if corporations are as you say ? Perhaps you know things they don't? Perhaps these cities were never versed in
Keynesian economics like you appearently were?
They do it to increase the tax base, attract more workers to the municipality that in turn also pay more taxes, and businesses attract other satellite businesses.
Now less emotion and more facts....Price Waterhouse released a comprehensive study on the effective tax rate of the worlds 2000 largest corporations. For clarification...The effective tax rate is the share of global pretax income that actually is paid in taxes to various levels of government in the U.S. and abroad.
The study essentially found that U.S. corporations paid an average effective tax rate of 27.7 percent from 2006 to 2009, compared with an average of 19.5 percent for foreign-based corporations. The U.S. effective tax rate was the sixth-highest among the 61 countries that are home to large corporations, behind Japan, Morocco, Italy, Indonesia, and Germany.
Business pays taxes on their profits...not sales. So you and the crew down in the Park are being duped if you and your protestor friends believe statements like this..."Company X had 5 million in sales and paid no income tax" As you may know...profit margins on most business is very small. The average net margin in the supermarket business is just 1 to 2 percent of sales, for instance, which means that a company with $50 million in sales would earn, on average just $500,000-to-$1 million annually and pay taxes on that money. Many firms in the industry, of course, would be below that average, and some would lose money in any year. Here's a quick look at what some large US corporations paid in corporate Income taxes....AT&T 8.3 billion, Exxon, Mobil and Conoco all paid over 10 billion ...a 40% effective rate. Wal-Mart an effective rate of 33% or 7 billion. Verizon 9 billion.
Your anti business mantra is based purely on ideology, and not facts. You wanna squeeze business even more? ...say hello to more US jobs flowing over to India and China.
Or as Ross Perot liked to say..."that huge sucking sound is US jobs leaving" You seem perplexed that business sees Obama as the most anti business president in a generation. He's whipped them like a mule for 3 years both rhetorically and with over regulation, now he wants them to start hiring? Sorry Barry. You made your bed.
By the way....have you and the 99ers come up with a defination of who exactly is "wealthy"?
:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
Re: Occupy Wall Street protest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
onmyknees
And so the question remains....why has Obama been unscarred by the Protest Wall Street Crowd? He's taken more in campaign contributions from them than anyone in history, and all of his financial team are former Wall Street fraternity brothers.
business sees Obama as the most anti business president in a generation. He's whipped them like a mule for 3 years both rhetorically and with over regulation, now he wants them to start hiring?
Wait so is he the most corporate president ever or the most populist? That's the problem with regurgitating talking points, you change your "mind" all the time without ever knowing why or perhaps even that you change it at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
onmyknees
And companies are indeed sitting on record amounts of cash, but it's not the reason you lament. It's uncertainty.
This is utter fucking BULLSHIT!! Not only is there no evidence for this canard, but there's plenty of evidence against it. Can you say Low Demand? (Hint: it's not spelled LMAO)
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ssproblems.png
http://www.epi.org/publication/regul...y-explanation/
Re: Occupy Wall Street protest
I've been watching this thread for awhile as well as the OWS coverage in the media and one of the things I've noticed is that both sides seem to forget a key factor in this whole debacle. Regardless of which side of the debate you're on, we are all living in this country together and our infrastructure is crumbling around us. And with nearly 14 million people out of work, our tax revenues are also suffering, so no meaningful repairs are being made. When the bridge collapses it won't matter what your social strata is, everyone on it is going in the river. :geek:
