Printable View
Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
Mine is still with identification...hormones/surgeries comes later. Our dyshporia is all different and it tells us when our road/journey is done.
I think you are just cocky and childish.
You obviously feel if noone agrees with your way we are wrong..
It's just not the case..
Look... this isn't difficult... a definition is, by definition... a definition. What I'm asking isn't hard so stop making excuses for yourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by msbhaven
Your stated definition is inherently different from hers and I can go through them both as to why. However, in the interests of comedy, I'll still allow you both to chat and figure out which one you want to use.
Why and how can two self-identified Transsexuals (one an activist for the cause, and the other with years(?) of experience to back the title up) have different definitions?
Could it be possibly be that "Transsexual" isn't quite the simple thing you both make it out to be? Could it be in this crazy thing called humanity, there are variations that you both have not accounted for? Could that possibility exist?
Nah, I suppose not.
Think what you want. I asked for a very simple thing and got two different definitions from people who identify as Transsexual. When pushed on that issue... insult. Run. Hide.Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
I don't think you are wrong. I think you need to re-think your reasoning and have a firm grasp of the issues so that when you move forward with your activism (and I mean that with all sincerity) and come face to face with people who are not sympathetic AT ALL with your cause, you will know how to explain it.
Otherwise it is YOU and all the other 1,000,000's of Transsexuals who have their own definition of the term who end up looking foolish.
Ask a Gay male... Define Gay? You're not going to get as different answers as you two gave.
Ask a Lesbian woman... Define Lesbian? Again... probably pretty straightforward answer.
Why should "Transsexual" be different?
I'm not saying this to argue. I'm saying this because it is a problem, and to move forward, Transsexuals need to define the terms instead of just assuming everyone is talking about the same thing. Clearly... you're not.
Umm Hello YodaQuote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
I believe I said that pages ago..your tactic is to keep typing and putting words in my mouth..until I get bored..so you feel like you won the debate.
Our dysphoria/transition is different for all....
I began living full time as a girl at age 12. I didn't have to unlearn male characteristics or go through many of the things older girls go through. Does that make me more transsexual..NO..we all have a different timeline..journey..experiences...
HOWEVER A CROSSDRESSER by THE DEFINITION IS STILL A CIS PERSON DRESSING UP FOR FETISH PURPOSE OR FUN!
Someone that identifies as a woman deep down..is a TRANSSEXUAL..because they identify as such..
I do not know what your goal is other than the CHIP you have on your shoulder.
Many girls I will admit feel after they get surgeries or take hormones are more woman than another transsexual, but this is not the case. What binds a transsexual with another transsexual is HOW WE IDENTIFY. That's it..plain and simple.
There are beautiful transsexuals, there are average transsexuals, there are ugly transsexuals, there are butch transsexuals, there are lesbian transsexuals, there are tom boy transsexuals, but there are not CROSSDRESSING TRANSSEXUALS.
There's a good reason I didn't bother to go through all of that, if I'm going to read a book it will be one from my private collection at home not a series of posts on a message board. Besides your posts here in this thread and in the previous one that was deleted better define you then anything you wrote in that thread. I imagine that I can guess the answer to a great many of my questions for you already given what I've seen here.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
I've been nothing but polite to you here in attempting to try and help you see over the fence to what it is like on the other side. You on the other hand have managed to grow insulting and belligerent within less then 5 posts.
And BTW that's not the way it works dearie. You can either answer my questions or not I don't care. You are the one after all who is seeking validation for who you are not I. I've never felt the need to write a book on a message board in an attempt to define myself or justify my actions regarding my transition to anybody else. I will tell you this however. Both of my definitions come far closer to the truth of what it is to be transsexual in a few words then all of that mountain of posts that you placed in that linked thread. It's really quite simple. I knew I wasn't a boy before I could even talk, and I lived with that for as long as I could manage, but I didn't fully understand what it was to be a woman or a transsexual woman until I lived my life as one.
If you ever transition and you are honest with yourself, one day you are going to look back on this time and wonder what in the world you were thinking that prompted you to act this way. Kelly, Bella and I have been fairly mild in our criticism of you here, far milder then your reactions to be sure. I can promise you that others out there would not be so kind and would not pull their punches in the least.
So go ahead and devastate me with your legalize that proves how you are right and all of us are wrong. It won't change a thing. You will still be an untransitioned part timer while we will be going on with our lives as the women we always knew we were from the beginning and that we had the courage to become.
kelly u dont have to prove yourself really...i dont even know what u keep talkin with someone who doesnt even assume her true identity, she writing essay about nonsense ,every page
what she need to do ,is to give us a update of her gender,she doesnt even know:yayo:
So, despite saying to your face, that I identify as "Transsexual", you just can't resist the parting shot, can you? Just had to get that little barb in, right? Nice... but expected as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by msbhaven
Look, I don't really have to devastate you. You and Kelly both have done that to yourselves. I didn't have to plan it, manipulate it, or make it happen. You two did it on your own without any help from me by proffering two different definitions for the same word that you both profess to be "experts" on: Transsexual.
Look, I'm not trying to devastate anybody. I'm not trying to be right and I'm not trying to be wrong. I'm illustrating that the issue of Transsexual is far more complicated that you two believe and the disparity between your two definitions (identity and incongruity are vastly different things) proves that fact.
How in god's green earth can anyone take the Transsexual community seriously if it can't even define itself properly and with unity?
Girl you are coming off as loco...Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
Have a nice night
A fairly expected response.Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
You have a nice night too. See you around in the activist circles.
[QUOTE=GroobyKrissy;1453660]A fairly expected response.
You have a nice night too. See you around in the activist circles.[/QUOTED] Do you know what dysphoria is?? What you are talking about is timeline and experiences. It all comes back to dysphoria and life stages. All things to do with TRANSITION = TRANSSEXUAL.
Living as a man happily and dressing up for fun, sexual, and fetish purposes has nothing to do with Being a transsexual.
You are basically saying because Ashley Beth's aka Msbehaven and my own opinion differ somewhat on what a transsexual is..we are LOST...you are the only one lost...and I don't know any other activist who wouldn't say the same as me other than to be politically correct for the masses.
I stated many transsexual don't feel you are a real transsexual till you live it day to day and do the necessary treatments it involves to change your body.
That has to do with a difference of dysphoria and feeling their way is the right way.
At the end of the day though we both agree it is about the identification and workings that are going on UPSTAIRS.
So your argument you think you are so clever about is LACKING..
It's not even that I don't consider pre transition transsexual real transsexuals. It's simply that I don't believe they should have the right to identify themselves as such in society, because they haven't EARNED the right to yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
Incongruity between the brain and the body IS a state of mind, a long term state of mind that is. I simply added more wording to the definition to clarify for you that I wasn't using state of mind in the sense of angry happy sad or some other SHORT TERM state of mind, because I could see how you were trying to twist it back in to a nonsensical state of being.
This is why I don't waste my time on pre transition transsexuals and CDs and TVs. You are all like teenagers in high school or at best college students living in a dorm, all sure of yourself and your definitions of the world, smug in your self righteousness and convinced that you know better then the adults who have lived in the real world. You won't take advise, you won't listen to those who have been there before you and experienced the life you only fantasize about, and you are sure that your way, your view is the only right one. What utter nonsense.
[quote=KellyShore;1453665]No. What I'm arguing AGAINST is that a timeline exists at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
I think you meant to post this to Msbhaven who clearly thinks that if you never actually transition (whatever that means), you cannot be Transsexual. So again, you two should talk and get your stories straight.
I would argue this when it comes to timelines. The realization that one is Transsexual is a personal and private experience that changes from person to person. It could come at the age of 1 and it could come at the age of 99... it could come never. You could, in fact, die, wholly not understanding the feelings you have and simply adapting to live your life around them. It is not unlike being gay (notice I'm not saying the two are the same thing).
As for dysphoria... no Kelly, never heard the word in my life. Can you educate me, please? (don't do it, I know what it is).
As to your last: I've never said that it does. I've said that it can. You are failing to understand that, and it is an important difference.
No, no, no we are the smug ones..the superior ones...Quote:
Originally Posted by msbhaven
The ones that were talking about age, surgeries, and other things she mentioned I know I never brought it up. I never say a girl is too old to transition you can grab it at any moment.
I don't understand where her self hate is coming from, you on hormones over there Krissy, going through mood swings??
But many girls again that transition aren't always transsexuals...they just like the glamour and find it more appealing to live as woman..so they get surgeries, get on hormones, and live the life. Many times its for financial reasons, attention, and the list goes on.
A transsexual dear is someone that identifies as the opposite gender of what they were born, bringing me back to my original point. Surgeries and hormones do not make a transssexual!
[quote=GroobyKrissy;1453675]Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
This speaks volumes about your ignorance regarding GID and transsexualism. Volumes!
Beg your pardon, sarcasm is easy to miss online.
No... you don't agree... unless you're both changing your definitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
You think it is "identity" - that is, a willful state (you can will yourself to believe anything you want about your "identity"). Also, as such, an identity can change by force of will.
She believes it is (as stated) an incongruity between the body and the mind. Incongruity implies defect by definition.
I believe neither is correct on their face.
[quote=msbhaven;1453680]Are you freakin' serious. You actually thought I was serious? Good lord.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
Totally agreed but girls who DON'T transition at all haven't earned the right to be identified in the same group with those who have in my opinion.
Krissy all knowing please define to me what a transsexual is since you think some how we disagree.. especially me who has been living her life as a female since age 12.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
She said it had to do with the upstairs just like me...I don't know where you are coming from!
The only difference between her and I is..if you haven't lived it you haven't earned the right to call yourself a transsexual.
That was the only difference.
[quote=GroobyKrissy;1453683]Why not? It made about as much sense as the rest of what you have posted tonight. Like I said sarcasm is easy to miss online.Quote:
Originally Posted by msbhaven
So you can "earn" your Transsexual badge... NICE! Brownies, here I come!Quote:
Originally Posted by msbhaven
"waste your time..." And you and Kelly think that no "superiority complex" exists? Of course, even for everything Kelly has said about that not existing thus far, she will never take you to task for what you've said, right? I mean, all YOU Transsexuals always stick together and such.
You think I fantasize about your life? Hooking? You've kind of stated before that is how you make your living, at least partially, right? Yeah, that's the dream for me. Look, I don't mind that you escort... more power to you. Don't think for one second I fantasize about living your life though. Been there... done it.... IN SPADES.
My life suits me just fine. I'm making changes in it, which you would know if you had cared enough to read. As of right now, you're just sounding more and more foolish as you make assumptions about me that are entirely incorrect.
Now you are just being willfully obtuse, or at least I hope you are because the alternative doesn't bare contemplation.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
If you are the one that is going to speak for our community I'm worried..I will just say that Krissy...
I don't think she was talking about the escorting part, I think she was talking about crossdresses that would like to look more feminine. I have loads of crossdresses that are obsessed with me or say they wish they looked like me. As do Eva Lin, Kimber, and the list goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
I stated earlier that some trans-women feel that they are more female than others after surgeries/hormones. I said that..YOU DON'T READ..you just TYPE BS..
I don't think she was talking about the escorting part, I think she was talking about crossdresses that would like to look more feminine. I have loads of crossdresses that are obsessed with me or say they wish they looked like me. As do Eva Lin, Kimber, and the list goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
I stated earlier that some trans-women feel that they are more female than others after surgeries/hormones. I said that..YOU DON'T READ..you just TYPE BS..
And then talking crap about her being an escort on an ADULT BOARD..really?? Aren't you a porn model?? Girl come on..stop being shady..you are being shady in a round about way. You know it and I know it.
Stop acting twelve.
Transsexual is a state of being that one can know inherently or come to understand through experience, reflecting a true belief that one's assigned gender at birth is incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
Transgender is the state of choosing not to associate with one's assigned gender at birth or not to conform to societal gender binaries (i.e. - male and female).
Pretty simple really.
That is not what a transgender is...transgender is an umbrella term for:Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
intersexed, transsexual, gender queer, non-conforming, drag queen, transvestite, crossdresser, and the list goes on..
So it's a state of being..which means in ones mind...exactly what I said hours ago...
And the transition road varies for every transsexual like I said hours ago.
So you basically agreed with me??
HUH
Eye rolls. I have been a whore before but no I neither cam model or escort any more. I work a real job with a real company and collect a real pay check at a place where people either call me Ma'am or by my legal name. So talk about assumptions and lack of knowledge about somebody's life. Sheesh.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
As I said before I don't care to read a damn book to glean what is going on in somebody's life. I gave you a chance to tell me about the changes in your life through a series of simple questions. You chose not to answer and go off on a tangent about the difference in view points between Kelly and myself.
And you are still on that tangent. Honey we are laughing at you at this point because you look so foolish. I know where she stands on this topic and respect her for her position and she knows where I stand on it and respects my right to my opinion. What's really funny is that you keep trying to hammer that wedge in when the difference between Kelly and I on this is close enough to split a hair especially when compared to the gulf that separates your opinions from ours.
Kelly... I knew what she meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
It was a pointed answer to an obvious attempt of "looking down the nose". Normally speaking, if you say someone fantasizes about your life, you think you have something they want. I knew exactly what she was talking about and picked out something incongruous to highlight.
Yeah... I'll try writing in English next time so you can read and understand it. Sorry.
mmm... kind of.Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
My definition of Transsexual is pretty different from yours and vastly different from Msbhaven's.
You can't define a word just by throwing other words at it, Kelly. You can't say, "A frog is a toad". You can't say Transgender is just an umbrella for x, y, z... you have to give the word a definition. But, we probably agree pretty closely on what Transgender is.
Transsexual... definitely not. Look at my definition and then look at yours. The differences are there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
Ohhhh yeah you put me in my place with that shot right? Too bad you didn't know the gun was loaded with blanks. Even if I were still in that line of work it wouldn't have bothered me. Society may frown on it but I don't and never have. You think I'm going to be ashamed that somebody who runs her own porn site implied that I was a whore and beneath her on a porn message board? ROTFLMAO. You really are delusional aren't you?
You identify former crossdressers as crossdressers when in fact they may of been transsexuals all along. You deem someone a crossdresser, just because maybe a year prior they didn't want to transition or were scared to. I deem someone as a transsexual always if they ever feel the need to transition or feel something is wrong or missing in their life gender wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
That's the only difference we have...
You just like pulling crap out your butt..
You have obviously given yourself the title of transsexual sage when you clearly aren't...
I could care less about if you two climb into bed tonight and cuddle closely.Quote:
Originally Posted by msbhaven
The fact of the matter is that you two have found a common "enemy" and just won't face the fact that your own stated definitions of "Transsexual" are different.
At this point, that is my only point. You won't even admit that.
INCONGRUITY? So Transsexual is a "mistake" ? That is what the word implies. Beauty vs. Ugly. Chaos vs. Order.
Is that REALLY how you see Transsexual? I've given you ample time to reword or revisit or redefine or re-something. You haven't done so and thus I think I have to assume this is your definition.
Does nobody else see ANY issue with defining Transsexual as an incongruity?
So just out of curiosity if I were out and about and ran in to you in your male mode. Should I call you sir? Ma'am? Maybe one or both with a wink to let you know I still thought you were transsexual? Do you know what somebody calls me when I am out and about or at work and they don't know my name? Try ma'am or miss or (if I'm very lucky) young lady. And that's the case every single day of my life. Can you really not tell the difference between you and I on the gender scale?Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
I honestly think other guys think you are confused tbh..Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
Look what Simon said pages back..
I have sent and shared my thoughts with several people and other trans on my facebook they also think you are confused...
So yeah....
Girl you are making a fool out of yourself, I hope once your hormones kick in and you live the life 24/7 you will look back and see how your insight changes..
Feelings vs belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
Do you see where your definition is so much more vague than mine?
Mine, while allowing for a larger audience, puts a much tighter structure into it. It must be a belief... not just a feeling. It must be true... not just something you decide one day.
I don't accept just "Oh, I think I'm going to be Transsexual today"... your definition, based on "identity" based on feeling, with no timeline, does.
What I do allow for is you being born in the middle of Redneck City, struggling your whole life with a belief, pushing it down, joining the football team, marrying, having kids, etc. Then discovering one day that hey... people actually struggle with this feeling and there is a name for it. I may be... Transsexual.
That being said, I also belief that nobody else but YOURSELF can really, truly know if you're Transsexual or not, since you are really the only one who truly knows and can discern your own motives.
Yes I see my penis as an incongruity! Every time I look in the mirror when I'm nude and I see it it bothers me. It is an incongruity, a birth defect in my eyes that I would love to have corrected some day.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
No I don't see that incongruity as a mistake I see it as lesson in life. I see at as a cross I was given to bear in this life so that I might better understand what it is to be a woman, and to not take it for granted. More and more I believe in reincarnation of the soul, and more and more I believe that life is a lesson meant to make us better.
I'm not perfect and maybe it is wrong for me to feel as I do about un transitioned transsexuals, but damn it I worked hard to get here. I sacrificed to be who I am. I gave up friends family, home, and past to start over so I could be who I was meant to be. And I'm sorry but I don't have enough generosity in my heart yet to listen to somebody piss and moan about being to old or to poor for surgery or I have a family, or I have a career but I still think that I should be considered your equal. Like Hell. You want that? Go out and earn it.
Respect isn't given dear it's earned! Being identified as a woman when you were born with the birth defect of a penis is respect earned through sacrifice and effort.
Go try some of both and get back to me and I might give more respect to your opinion on this subject then. But be warned, if you do you might just fine that your opinion changes as well.
If you say so...transsexuals sage 2014Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy