Classical Music, Poetry and stuff

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Change of subject, and as a guitarist RobertLouis -have you any of the Schubert song cycles with guitar? Of the two that I have, Die Schone Mullerin with Peter Schreier and Konrad Ragossnig is outstanding, the haunting song Die Liebe Farbe in particular works well with guitar; for some reason Winterrreise is recorded with two guitars, the Folkwang Gitarren Duo -Scott Weir, the tenor does a good job but doesnt have the dramatic range of sensitivity to pull the cycle off, but its an interesting comparison with the single guitar, as well as coventional piano. Can't find samples on youTube but you might have the recordings anyway. The Ragossnig used to be in HMV on Oxford St, I bought the Winterreise on amazon.

Some recommendations for recordings of classical guitar would be welcome, for family reasons.

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I wish I could help, Stavros, but my contact with the classical guitar world has always been at arm's length and as a listener rather than a player. I'm entirely self-taught as a guitarist and have never had a lesson (and it shows, lol). Aside from mainstream Spanish and Latin pieces by the likes of Villa Lobos my collection is shamefully thin, I'm afraid. I learned from listening to the likes of James Taylor, Bert Jansch, Ralph McTell, Dick Gaughan and Richard Thompson.

A few fragments of info.... Blind Boy Grunt, referred to in an oldr osting here was a fiction. it was pseudonym Bob Dylan once used. No such person.

Totally agree about the lack of knowledge of people in most chain bookstores and music stores these days. They might as well be selling potatoes. There is, funnily enough, one guy who works in the basement of HMV's main store on Oxford Street who really does know and care about music. Don't know his name - older guy with long hair often in a ponytail in the folk, blues, world, country, easy listening desk.

Dobells is long gone but another of the old jazz shops (Rays) is now housed inside Foyles and the guys there know their stuff. There is also still an excellent classical music store on Great Marborough Street where they're enthusiasts and well informed.

On classical interepretations for guitar you might like to investigate a duo Agustín Maruri & Michael Kevin Jones (Maruri is a guitarist, Jones a cellist)

http://www.agustinmaruri.com/home%20..._catalogue.htm

‪Jones Maruri Duo 3‬‏ - YouTube

I had vague memories of Bert Jansch from the 60s and his album SirJohnAlot etc -I bought a 3 disc-set last year and was so bored by it I gave it to a relative, some things are for connosseurs. I did see John Williams at Ronnie Scott's on a double bill, I think, with Blossom Dearie; and John McLaughlin with the Tony Williams Lifetime at the now defunct Country Club in Belsize Park, but I think some of his work is cerebral and I never had any empathy with the Indian mysticism trip....maybe I should go back and try McLaughlin again.

Thanks for the link Prospero; Henry Stave is the shop on Great Marlborough St I have no idea how they survive, but having said that earlier this year when I couldn't find a dvd set HMV never sold, until I decided to buy it, I went straight to Henry Stave and bought it -I guess their stock moves even more slowly. There were a couple of shops called Asman's I think, one was in the City where I used to work when I left school, they were outstanding. I have been to Ray's once when I was looking for a dvd of John Handy Live at the Monterey Jazz Festival 1965 (the one with Spanish Lady) -I used to have it on vinyl before getting rid of all that, and actually wanted to buy it as a present for a Jazz enthusiast -it doesn't seem to be available, although some extracts are on YouTube
‪Spanish Lady - John Handy Live at the Monterey‬‏ - YouTube

Stavros - I still have that john Handy album on Vinyl - and have burned a cd of it. PM your email address and i can e-mail you the MP3 tracks if you want.

Re: John McLaughlin. He was back at Ronnie Scotts this week - and John Williams is there next month in a duet situation (I am going to see him). Cant recall who he is appearing with.

Does any one else a Wagner fan?


I love Wagner's dark melancholy.

Vienna Philharmonic, Wilhelm Furtwangler
Studio Recording, March 2, 1954

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCE_a...eature=related

Just heard 18 year old cellist Ivan Karizna play the Quadrille from Shchedrin's "Not Love Alone." Stupendous!! You can hear it on the July 14th broadcast of Performance Today about 22 minutes into the first hour.

http://performancetoday.publicradio....y=14&year=2011

The death of Lucian Freud does not end a chapter in art, end an era or anything like that. Freud was obviously a man of his time, but was never part of a movement -in his time there was Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism, Conceptual and Kinetic Art (as the two used to be known), and the more recent BritArt, Stuckists and so on. Freud was notoriously a loner, a shy man who loathed travelling and stayed in London most of his life.

Freud was clearly fascinated by paint, by colour and form and the rigours of working within a confined space, for some reason considered 'conventional' in comparison with the experimental work of artists working with different materials. In addition, the greater part of his work consists of portraits. The bold brush strokes, the depth in his paintings, the way flesh folds and creases in his subjects, the mood, the position -every aspect of portraiture was there, yet while completely unlike Velasquez or Titian, Rembrandt or Ingres, four of the most phenomenal portrait painters, Freud nevertheless captured his subject. It is not surprising that Chardin was a great influence, the painter of still lives whose ability to make the border of a tablecloth look exquisite is an ability beyond the reach even of Gilbert and George, whose selfish, juvenile rubbish can sometimes be drawn with much care (why bother is what I usually think when seeing their stuff).

Freud was not unique, there are plenty of portrait painters around; but he was a painter of great depth, and one whose work has given me a lot of thought and pleasure, which I cannot say about most of his contemporaries (with the exception of Bridget Riley).

As we have not discussed art much in this thread, other BM's opinions are welcome.

As long as no-one says Cage's '4:12' (or whatever the hell it is) is a art masterpiece, I'll remain very gruntled ;)

Agustín Maruri and Michael Kevin Jones duo is hot hot hot :)

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Originally Posted by Miss Aeryn

As long as no-one says Cage's '4:12' (or whatever the hell it is) is a art masterpiece, I'll remain very gruntled ;)

Agustín Maruri and Michael Kevin Jones duo is hot hot hot :)

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No one would claim the Cage is a masterpiece lol - just a stroke of originality i think

Yes the duo are wonderful. I have sat in a room with them - and heard them play to me a couple of others. Sheer bliss.

I have to agree with Stavros's summation of Freud. An uncomfortable brilliance though - enveloping us in the power of the real. There is no romanticising vision there. And thank god for his power over the ephermeral triviality of the stuckists, the brit art movements etc.

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Originally Posted by Prospero

Yes the duo are wonderful. I have sat in a room with them - and heard them play to me a couple of others. Sheer bliss.

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Oh now I'm jealous!

:Bowdown:Well when you come to London you can bathe in the reflected glory - but sitting alone in a room with me.

By the way the cage piece is 4.22 - and while it is hardly brilliant in itself (how could it be) its a conceptual masterstroke in my opinion - the idea being to make us listen intently to what we never normally hear. The ambience of a room etc. It's a sort of framing of time. Rather in the same way Marcel Duchamp took familiar objects like a urinal and decontextualised them.

Of course Cage's 4'22" is sheer perfection. Proof: If you change just one note, the whole thing is ruined. :)

Presumably that's the cover version, as John Cage's piece is 4' 33"

Talking of music, A Clockwork Orange -the Musical is in preparation. At first I thought this was a joke, but apparently Burgess, who was also a composer, provided a score, similar, it is said, to West Side Story...I have never been able to get into Burgess's other books, and heard some of his music on Radio 3 years ago, and was similarly unimpressed. Story is here:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/07/22/...its-happening/

Thanks Stavros. He's the go to guy for this kind of accuracy.

Re Burgess. Try "Earthly Powers". Wonderful piece of fiction. "The Long Day Wanes" isn't half bed either.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Presumably that's the cover version, as John Cage's piece is 4' 33"

Talking of music, A Clockwork Orange -the Musical is in preparation. At first I thought this was a joke, but apparently Burgess, who was also a composer, provided a score, similar, it is said, to West Side Story...I have never been able to get into Burgess's other books, and heard some of his music on Radio 3 years ago, and was similarly unimpressed. Story is here:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/07/22/...its-happening/

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No Stavros, that was the radio version. Radio 1 wouldn't have it on their playlist unless it was under 4' 33".

And as for the mind-boggling conceit of a musical version of A Clockwork Orange, it couldn't possibly be worse than anything by Andrew fecking Lloyd fecking Webber.

YOU mean Fecking Andrew Fecking Lloyd Fecking Fecking Webber?

Wasn't a clockwork orange (the film) almost a musical anyway? Music was so crucial in it?

Oh gawds, I've stepped on a trigger plate.

CAGE!?!! SERIOUSLY!?!! ARGHHHhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

*cue sounds of running footsteps, a door closing and screaming of 'Lalalalalah' fading to black...*

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Originally Posted by Prospero

:Bowdown:Well when you come to London you can bathe in the reflected glory - but sitting alone in a room with me.

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With a offer like that how could a girl refuse?

:party:

I have a sneaking feeling that, just perhaps, you do find this offer resistible Miss Aeryn. But c'mon now - you know it would improve antipodean relations no end. I'll make you a nice cup of tea.

‪The Pogues - Goodnight Irene‬‏ - YouTube

but what kind of tea?

:P

but what kind of tea?

Miss Aeryn, read or see The Tempest and then join the dots: Prospero..Tea...

RobertLouis -it was Burgess himself who had the idea of scoring A Clockwork Orange for the stage. I doubt Lord Lloyd-Webber could make anything musically valid from it -for what its worth I went to the 3rd performance of Evita! in London whenever that was -Harold Prince, who staged West Side Story with Jerome Robbins, produced a great show. Shame about the music.

No-one has ever doubted that the Lloyd Webber stagings are a grand spectacle. Surely not enough. Did Guys and Dolls, Kiss Me Kate or My Fair Lady need grand stagings? They'd stand-up to a concert performance. And as you say Stavros - shame about the music. he sually manages one "memorable' song a how - memorable in that you can remember the tunes (and he seems to remember them too - and use melodies by other composers)

I am ambivalent on musicals -I was fortunate to have parents who were sufficiently interested in culture to get me to the theatre, ballet and opera by the time I was 11 years old. I was also taken to see Oliver! when I was I think 11 or 12 an age when I think its easy to impress -but it was a great show with some great songs, and still is -I was appalled on the one occasion I saw the BBC tv auditions with that semi-incoherent idiot on a throne gushing You could be Nancy!
I was also taken to see the film of South Pacific in the days when there was a live band before the film started -the film was controversial because of the mixed-race relationship that develops, but the songs are excellent, and I watched the film on tv last year I think it was, with a lot of pleasure. On the other hand, My Fair Lady, Mary Poppins, Sound of Music, do nothing for me. The King and I is a mixed bag, I was dragged to see it because my mother liked Yul Bryner; but Happy Talk is a wonderful song. I am unable to connect with Sondheim even though I appreciate his role in keeping the musical alive as a genre. Finally, and I dont want to sound like a London taxi driver, but aren't there just too many musicals on in the West End?

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Originally Posted by Stavros

but what kind of tea?

Miss Aeryn, read or see The Tempest and then join the dots: Prospero..Tea...

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good to see that went straight over my head like a F-111 on afterburn sigh.

I see said the blind man :geek:

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Originally Posted by Stavros

I am ambivalent on musicals -I was fortunate to have parents who were sufficiently interested in culture to get me to the theatre, ballet and opera by the time I was 11 years old. I was also taken to see Oliver! when I was I think 11 or 12 an age when I think its easy to impress -but it was a great show with some great songs, and still is -I was appalled on the one occasion I saw the BBC tv auditions with that semi-incoherent idiot on a throne gushing You could be Nancy!
I was also taken to see the film of South Pacific in the days when there was a live band before the film started -the film was controversial because of the mixed-race relationship that develops, but the songs are excellent, and I watched the film on tv last year I think it was, with a lot of pleasure. On the other hand, My Fair Lady, Mary Poppins, Sound of Music, do nothing for me. The King and I is a mixed bag, I was dragged to see it because my mother liked Yul Bryner; but Happy Talk is a wonderful song. I am unable to connect with Sondheim even though I appreciate his role in keeping the musical alive as a genre. Finally, and I dont want to sound like a London taxi driver, but aren't there just too many musicals on in the West End?

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I'm ambivalent too, Stavros, although I have a hankering for those with a strong story, and if it's dark and controversial like Carousel, all the better. In addition to my early introduction to oratorio by two very musical parents, I also met a lot of Rogers and Hammerstein/Hart, Lerner and Loewe etc musicals through their involvement in amateur theatricals. Because of that, Oklahoma still has a special thrill for me, as does West Side Story - Sondheim's first book to Bernstein's music, I think.

My goddaughter has done quite a few west-end productions in the chorus, usually the more esoteric ones, like the frankly amazing adaptation of Wedekind's Spring Awakening, Rent etc. I'd rather risk one of those than see yet another revival, anything by Andrew Feckin' Lloyd Feckin' Webber makes me nauseous, and the various concoctions built around pop songs like Mama Mia, Queen etc make me want to kill someone, they are so awful in every possible way.

So yes, far too many musicals in the West End, but Kate is taking me to see her in Parade at the Southwark Playhouse in two weeks, and I'm sure to enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

My goddaughter has done quite a few west-end productions in the chorus, usually the more esoteric ones, like the frankly amazing adaptation of Wedekind's Spring Awakening, Rent etc. I'd rather risk one of those than see yet another revival, anything by Andrew Feckin' Lloyd Feckin' Webber makes me nauseous, and the various concoctions built around pop songs like Mama Mia, Queen etc make me want to kill someone, they are so awful in every possible way.

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LOL well awful they might be but at least they are keeping the theatre alive, wouldn't you agree? They may well be the equivalent of fast food, but the good thing is that a fair number of people are introduced to the theatre world via fast food and once they get tired of the cardboard munching they move on to something more hearty and nutritious for the soul :)

Well that's the theory anyhow lmao!!

x

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Originally Posted by Miss Aeryn

LOL well awful they might be but at least they are keeping the theatre alive, wouldn't you agree? They may well be the equivalent of fast food, but the good thing is that a fair number of people are introduced to the theatre world via fast food and once they get tired of the cardboard munching they move on to something more hearty and nutritious for the soul :)

Well that's the theory anyhow lmao!!

x

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Reluctantly, I have to agree, Aeryn, at least as far as keeping theatres open is concerned. As I've said, I'm very selective about musicals that I'd be prepared to see, but I tend to be a lot more daring when it comes to straight theatre (which isn't as opposed to gay theatre, of course). The reviews in the quality press are fairly reliable guides too.

What's the theatre scene like where you are? The State Theatre in Sydney is one of the most stunning theatres I've ever seen.

I have to agree: once a decline sets in I think it would be hard to stop, although I don't believe there is any evidence that, for example, long running shows like The Lion King and Mamma Mia subsidise revivals of Pinter and Beckett. Also, I think that as an introduction to the theatre for children and young people, musicals are ideal -in today's climate when the attention span is so limited, the stop-start structure of a musical is ideal: however I would prefer musicals on original themes, rather than being a loose collection of songs by the same band/person: Evita was at least original, even if it had little to do with the real Eva Peron. I was taken to the theate and ballet when I was 10, and the opera when I was 11, which also included Gilbert & Sullivan: great for an 11 year old but by the time I was 16 I thought G&S passe.

Live music, and if possible, participation through singing, dancing or playing an instrument is priceless: I sang in the church choir and it was thrilling, exciting and one of my most treasured memories. I aso think that a personal experience of music enables people to distinguish between good musicianship and the rest, regardless of the genre. I don't care if its Wagner, Gilbert & Sullivan, Kylie Minogue or I Am H-A-P-P-Y -the alternative is silence, a very dull life indeed.

Is anybody else here enjoying the proms season on Radio 3, BBC4 and occasionally BBC2?

The Brahms Concert on Friday night featuring the 3rd symphony and the 1st piano concerto with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe and Bernard Haitink conducting was simply sublime. The symphony in particular was the finest rendition I have yet heard.

In the late 1970s I used to work with a Havegal Brian enthusiast; if you have ever met one you will realise that even being obsessed with Delius cannot compare to the Brianistas who are convinced he is the most neglected genius of British music. He had every symphony on tape that had ever been broadcast. These days I suspect only the Proms could do the Gothic (or ' das Siegeslied') but while it was brave -or foolish- to, perform it, it was a sad waste of resources. I can't remember which Brian symphonies I liked, it might have been the 6th, but overall his work is not something I would actively pursue.

I haven't been able to listen to as many Proms as I would like. Although I liked Prokofiev's concerto for turntables and orchestra, it would have been so much better without the turntables, a worthless gimmick that failed in whatever it was supposed to achieve. I feel ambivalent about Haitink. To me he has an astonishing ability to transform beautiful and dynamic music into something bland and lifeless, yet the best Mahler 4 I heard was at the Concertgebouw with the same man conducting.

I bought Yuja Wang's cd of Rachmaninov's piano concerto no 2 and the Paganinni rhapsody a while ago, and its one of the best recordings of those perennial favourites I have ever heard; she has real sparkle in her playing, although I don't know how one pianist can sound so different from another. Her Bartok last Tuesday was brilliant -in fact, so far this and the National Youth Orchestra Proms were the ones I have enjoyed most.

Saw a musical called Parade at the Southwark Playhouse last night with my goddaughter, who knew several of the cast from her own background in musical theatre. Played in traverse, so very close to the action, and in the vaults, with the trains from London Bridge rumbling overhead.

I have to be persuaded to go to musicals - I hate the contrived pop group lyrics like Queen and Rod Stewart with a passion, am bored by endless revivals of supposed classics from the canon, and "spectacles" like the Lion King or Phantom (indeed anything by the dreaded ALW leave me stone cold.

But this was very, very different. It was a revival of a 1998 musical, book and score by Jason Robert Brown, based on a true story, which concerns the lynching, in Georgia 1914, of a New York Jew falsely accused of the rape and murder of a young girl. Dark, terrific score and coruscating lyrics superbly delivered by a young and very committed cast.

If you're in London, I urge you to see it. Not in the West End, so not west end prices - our seats cost £16 each. And an excellent pre-show dinner for £12 each directly overlooking the Thames on a sunny evening. Perfect.

I play it cool
and dig all jive
Thats the reason
I stay alive
My motto is as
I live and learn
is dig and be dug
In return.

The beat poets are reborn courtesy of Buck Johnson. Do you wear a black beret, smoke Gitanes and listen to Juliette Greco?

Black beret, yes. I like cool and funky hats.

The artist Richard Hamilton has died at the age of 89; he is remembered as a central force in the so-called 'Pop Art' movement of the 1960s, which in his case was the creation of multi-surface images which used paint, collage and photography simultaneously. I used to see his work as a regular visitor to the old Tate Gallery in London, and was never once impressed, neither by the indidivual works, nor by his style. I am not a renaissance reject, I do like contemporary art -Bridget Riley is one of my favourite artists of all time and if I had the money I would commission a work from her. Hamilton never did it for me. In fact, I see his work as a precursor to the self-advertisements of Tracy Emin and Gilbert/George, that one-way route to indifference.

I await the opinions of BM's with eager anticipation....

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Originally Posted by Stavros

The artist Richard Hamilton has died at the age of 89; he is remembered as a central force in the so-called 'Pop Art' movement of the 1960s, which in his case was the creation of multi-surface images which used paint, collage and photography simultaneously. I used to see his work as a regular visitor to the old Tate Gallery in London, and was never once impressed, neither by the indidivual works, nor by his style. I am not a renaissance reject, I do like contemporary art -Bridget Riley is one of my favourite artists of all time and if I had the money I would commission a work from her. Hamilton never did it for me. In fact, I see his work as a precursor to the self-advertisements of Tracy Emin and Gilbert/George, that one-way route to indifference.

I await the opinions of BM's with eager anticipation....

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I suspect your tongue is so firmly in your cheek, Stavros, that if you were to hold your breath as well you'd only last about three minutes.

FWIW I agree with your assessment of Hamilton. One of those strange contradictions who managed to be influential without at the same time creating any worthwhile art of his own.