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Kick 'em all out. When children refuse to play nice, you take away the toy. There is no kind of adult thinking going on in Palisraelistine. They want to act like brats, treat 'em like brats. This joint tantrum has been going on throughout recorded history, it's disrupting the entire world, & it's long past time to stick them in the corner.
True Dat, homieQuote:
Originally Posted by worldbro
I've had some answers to this..and because I think you already know what some of those answers are ..and you probably are already prepared to argue otherwise..and since that could be a thread on it's own..i'm gonna have to cop-out on this one.. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
If you believe none of those countries already exist and that, in fact - they are all secular governments- then it would seem to me that there are no other secular governments that are comprised of the Jewish faith (all other major faiths seem mostly represented).Again..why not let Israel have theirs....why would they then have to be represented by a non-secular government..when according to you- none of the other existing governments in the world are non-secular. That would mean that they would have to be held to a higher standard than any other country, just to have a right to exist. Sure, it's costing lives...but it cost lives to create almost all of the other nations of the world also.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Sorry if I was unclear Fred. I didn't say none of those countries exist. I said the one that's predominately Jewish and grants equal citizenship rights under the law to persons of all faith does not exist; i.e. Israel is not such a nation.
have you ever heard about a palestinian terrorist , who killed a mother and her two 8 and 5 old kids in her bed while she tried to protect them?
you probably never heard of it , why? the answer smells like..........oil.
I know it did happen because my ex wife was next door with MY 2 kids, they were very lucky to stay alive , lucky me.
I am also against loss of life , innocent life , so instead of saying what is wrong , try to give a practical solution.
try not to forget that for them suicide bombing , killing as many non muslims as possible , even by flying airplanes on tall buildings, are promised a place in heaven for doing it , with 100 young female virgins....
did you ever ask yourself why all the arab countries with billions of oil $ never help their poor palestinians brothers?
thank god that you are so far away from these radical muslims..........oops , not anymore after the 9/11
Well , those of you that believe that Obama will fix said problems that coincide with the conflict between Isreal and Palistine, wait until you see results. Don't just start saying that he will fix them.
Change is great, when it happens.
Okay.I understand now...I thought you were going into another direction there.. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Hamas terrorists kill innocent 'Palestinians' in Gaza.........
see the big celebration on the 9/11....
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a5e_1231434273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo
Quote:
Sure. So has Catholicism and Protestantism. Should we even discuss the barbarisms that were committed in the name of sanctifying lands in the name of Christ? Cutting off the hands of Arawak Indians for failing to find gold for the church? Should we talk about the inquisition? The witch trials? Manifest destiny? Colonialism? Slavery? All done in the name of Christ..Give me a fucking break. If its a comparison of religions, certainly the violence and callousness of Christianity compares when it comes to sheer brutality. - Mandy
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But sure, you demonize 4 million Palestinians based on their religion and ignore the horrifying injustices and violence being forced upon them by the Israeli state with US weaponry. It's their religion, not the fact that they were forcefully expelled from their homes, locked in prison camps, and repeatedly tortured and abused for the past 60 years....No way, its just their crazy religion, because those crazy Arabs don't share our enlightened way of thinking. Why do you think I refer to that line of thinking as imbecilic? Because without a heavy stream of indoctrination any adult, and certainly any child could easily see that as racist drivel. - Mandy
I'm not sure why you think I have advanced the notion that "its a comparison of religions." I don't think I've put forward that idea, and I'm not too sure why current events should be thought of in that way. Okay, it would be interesting to talk about the many horrible acts that have been committed in the name of other religions throughout history (Have you ever read Ludovic Kennedy's "All In The Mind: A Farewell to God"? He's excellent on this topic.) and I'll happily do so. But why bring that up here - unless one is arguing that horrible things have been done in the name of other religions, things which compare (to use your term) to those done in the name of Islam. Well, okay then. Islam's just as bad as Christianity ever was. You'll get no argument from me on that score. The question is: is it any worse - are such things still happening today in the name of Islam?
We appear to agree then, that Islamic forces have, throughout history, tried to bring dar al-harb - the House of War - under Islamic rule, and that some horrific things have been done in the name of Islam. Can I just add here that I do not consider myself to have been "indoctrinated" in any way, nor do I think that I have "demonized" anyone. As I said earlier, I've become interested in Islam in recent years, so I've gone to the trouble of reading a little bit about that ideology (Islam is obviously not a race, and any accusations of racism fall flat for this reason). I mentioned the attempt by Sulieman the Magnificent to take Malta, and from there, invade mainland Europe. I mentioned the slavery practiced by Muslim rulers and pirates which, let me tell you, matches anything in the history of the world for brutality and inhumanity. (See Giles Milton's "White Gold." It's just mind-blowing!) There is much more that could be said on this topic, obviously - it's just as interesting as the witch trials - which occurred in my country too btw. Oh aye! (See link.)
I'm interested in the connection (if there is one) between Islamic teachings and the use of "terrorism" such as suicide attacks in order to achieve certain goals - and I am interested in what those goals might be, and to what extent (if any) they tie in with Islamic teachings. I think this is a reasonable (and understandable) position to take. I certainly don't see how being interested in what's happening in the world around you, being quite well-read (I'll blow my trumpet a little bit here) and actually visiting some of the historical sites one has read about in order to help put what you've read in context equates (to use your term) to indoctrination or imbecility. (I had to throw that in there. :wink: )
There many be several necessary conditions for one's becoming a suicide bomber/terrorist. There have been enough well-off, well-educated people who have done so now, to make any simple connection between poverty or lack of education and terrorism highly unlikely. Nevertheless, these may be a factor of some kind, in some situations. I wouldn't shut the door on that notion altogether. Maybe, as you suggested, poverty and lack of education or opportunity plays a part in some people "going off the deep end" for Islam. I refer again to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who in her book "Infidel" says that after Sept. 11th she looked at what Islam actually taught and she found that when Mohammad Atta and the likes of Osama bin Laden or Ayman al-Zawahiri say they are acting in accordance with Islamic teachings, they are telling the truth. (Atta was a blatant misogynist btw: see Jane Corbin's "The Base.")
As everyone knows, Ayaan Hirsi Ali is living under the threat of death, because she has spoken out against Islam. She is not the only person who has been persecuted for doing so: Robert Redeker, Oriana Fallaci, Michel Houllebecq, Channel 4, there's quite a list. We all know that Theo van Gogh was murdered by a religious fanatic for criticising Islam - and have you seen what Mohammad B has said since? He's definitely (to use your phrase) gone off the deep end with his religion. And his religion, the same as everyone else who would like to see Ayaan Hirsi Ali lying in the street with a knife in her, is ... well, we all know what his religion is, don't we?
I was at work one day not long ago and one of my colleagues ran into the room and said that "they" had bombed Glasgow Airport, "they" had driven a jeep filled with gas bottles and nails into the front door and tried to blow it up. No one needed to ask who "they" were. We all knew.
When you have things like that happening, together with the many other acts of Islamic terrorism that have occurred in Europe post-9/11, I think it is perfectly reasonable for any citizen of a Western European country to wonder what is happening, and to try to find out.
And although there have been many Islamic terrorist attacks throughout Europe, and throughout the world too, since that one incident in America seven years ago, I wonder how people would think if they had to endure such terrorist attacks every day. I try to imagine that .. every day ... then I think what it would be like to live in Israel.
Reread this CLUSTERFUCK I think you embarrassed yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo
Another informative and helpful post from what's-his-name there.
You focus on minutae and misread the posts that I've written. I don't see the struggle in Israel/Palestine as a religious one, I see it primarily as an anti-colonial struggle. One with settlers, classic racial disparities, and severe human rights violations. And just like other anti-colonial struggles, when a modicum of justice is never achieved for oppressed peoples, the result is religious fanaticism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccolo
As for the term imbecilic, that was used in reference to the racist terminology that was used to describe Palestinian people, and even more so for those who would lump 4 million men women and children all together as terrorists.
If you wish to endlessly show us all how much history and philosophy you've read, thats fine, but perhaps you should just address the brunt of my arguments rather than trying to set up straw arguments. I'm an atheist, I've suffered tremendously at the hands of religious zealots, and I certainly have no wish to defend any religious system. But I think that reducing the conflict in the occupied territories to a religious struggle is deceitful and immoral.
No one has yet to address any of the things I wrote, perhaps because they are not really in dispute, rather it would be easier for people to endlessly talk about the horrors of suicide bombers and the evils of Islam (both of which are certainly many).
Okay then, that's fair enough, why don't we just set aside the "imbecile" thing as your response to the "raghead" kind of thing that was going on elsewhere in the thread.Quote:
You focus on minutae and misread the posts that I've written. I don't see the struggle in Israel/Palestine as a religious one, I see it primarily as an anti-colonial struggle. One with settlers, classic racial disparities, and severe human rights violations. And just like other anti-colonial struggles, when a modicum of justice is never achieved for oppressed peoples, the result is religious fanaticism.
As for the term imbecilic, that was used in reference to the racist terminology that was used to describe Palestinian people, and even more so for those who would lump 4 million men women and children all together as terrorists.
If you wish to endlessly show us all how much history and philosophy you've read, thats fine, but perhaps you should just address the brunt of my arguments rather than trying to set up straw arguments. I'm an atheist, I've suffered tremendously at the hands of religious zealots, and I certainly have no wish to defend any religious system. But I think that reducing the conflict in the occupied territories to a religious struggle is deceitful and immoral.
No one has yet to address any of the things I wrote, perhaps because they are not really in dispute, rather it would be easier for people to endlessly talk about the horrors of suicide bombers and the evils of Islam (both of which are certainly many). - mandy
For my own part, I deliberately mentioned some of the books I've been reading on this topic to address the comments you made, so far as I was concerned, and also, to see if you had read any of those books, because you do, as I already said, appear to be quite well read, and I just wondered if you might have actually read any of them. You never know - Roger Crowley's one in particular is quite recent, and has had some good reviews. As a matter of fact I saw it on the shelf in my local bookshop yesterday (and thought of you, awww ..)
I'll just respond quickly here to the rest of your post, because I've got to be heading out the door in a minute: I'm thinking again of Mill's argument for freedom of speech: as you say, you and I appear to be coming at this current situation from different angles, and that's fine. As I've said before, that's partly why I enjoy taking part in threads like this: other people bring what they know to the table, and you (hopefully) learn something that you didn't know about before. And (back to Mill) if different people put forward different views, then a larger, usually more complex picture can begin to emerge, and who knows, maybe the truth is out there in that larger, complex picture ... somewhere.
Edit: Got back home again & thought I'd add something to this post. I notice you mentioned earlier that there were loads of Christians who wanted to turn their countries into theocratic states, but I would have to say that isn't an issue so far as European countries are concerned. America I'm not so sure about! (Could one not turn your original argument around, and say that it is folly to scream about the "wackos" in the US who would like to turn your country into a theocracy, while ignoring the very real dangers posed by Islam in the world today?)
I'm not clear about your position on Islam: you agree that if one looks back through history, one will find plenty bad things to be said about Islam, as bad as anything that could be said about Christianity, and you argue that "going off the deep end with religion" leads to people carrying out acts of "religious fanaticism." Or as we tend to say, terrorism. Well, ok then.
Wouldn't it be correct to say "going off the deep end" of Islam? And to talk of "Islamic fanaticism"? After all, the people you are talking about don't become (for example) Buddhists, and like many of the Tibetan monks who have been jailed by the Chinese, try to find compassion for others, no matter what their behaviour is like.
We've all seen plenty examples in recent years of people going off the deep end of Islam. We all know what that can lead to. Again I'll say that there might have been one big terrorist attack in America seven years ago, but there have been many more around the world since, and one can only imagine what it would be like having to deal with terrorist attacks every day.
On one hand then, you seem to be arguing that Islam can be as cruel and evil as any other religion has ever been, and that Israelis have had to deal with people "going off the deep end" of Islam, which leads to "fanatical" Muslims committing terrorist attacks upon Israeli citizens.
On the other you seem terribly reluctant to acknowledge that Islam has anything to do with the whole situation.
Isn't it possible that it just might be a factor here? And how can one say for sure until one looks at what Islam actually teaches? And at what it's followers have said, and done, in the past?
That's an interesting video, yosi.Quote:
Originally Posted by yosi
Mandy, you spoke about how one's opportunities are reduced in Hamas controlled territory, and that this leads to people going off the deep end with Islam. I wonder to what extent Hamas limits the opportunites of the people it "represents"?
I wouldn't just take that video as authoritative, I don't know who made it or anything, although the events seem to be real enough, Israelis certainly wouldn't be shouting out the Takbir as they round up their own citizens. It raises a good question though - if as you say povery and lack of opportunity are necessary conditions for one's going on to become a suicide bomber, then to what extent is Hamas responsible for creating those conditions?
What do you think?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a5e_1231434273
If Russia was shooting rockets into Alaska I bet it wouldn't be more than a few hours before we were at war, but if Israel defends itself the antisemites come out of the woodwork.
I don't have time to reply to this entire thread, nor am I going to attempt to do so, but I iwll respond to the last post I've read...
Give me a fucking break, zukkobaby. The world is decrying Israeli actions for a number of reasons, chief amongst them being:
1. Israel's heavy-handed retaliation - The Israelis have come out and said that enough is enough and that they are tired of being shot at and bombed by militant factions within Palestine and even Lebanon for the last umpteen years. Israel has responded to rockets with a veritable cornucopia of weaponry in an attempt to "punish" Palestinians for a) supporting Hamas b) continuing to lob rockets into Israel despite the significantly more deadly retaliatory strikes and c) a ground invasion to root out the enemy on an effective level.
2. Israel has not only stopped aid organizations from reaching the imperiled civilians in this conflict, they have cut off supplies and power to a number of clinics and hospitals. Additionally, after they DID set up three-hour ceasefire agreements in order to facilitate care of the injured, they then struck numerous buildings with foreign aid workers inside of them as well as a UN aid convoy.
3. Israel has flat out ignored the UN's most recent call for a cease-fire and some kinda of agreement, truce. They are hard-lining their stance with (what seems reasonable to me) a general view that so long as the enemy keeps attacking, they will do the same. Furthermore, Hamas, while being part of Palestinian governance, is recognized as a terrorist organization by a number of countries and has not only called for the destruction of the Zionist state, but is also would only seem to gain from any concessions that Israel would have to make which is unfortunate...negotiating with terrorists never ends up well.
4. OVERKILL! The Israelis subscribe to the belief that if you wrong them, they will visit that hurt back upon you that you will remember the last time they fucked you up and made you their bitch. A few rockets over the last few months with some suicide bombings (which all violated a cease-fire agreement) has brought them to the brink of flattening everything Palestinian and they WILL pay back the damages visited upon them tenfold.
It's not like Israel is playing with kid gloves, so they're not wholly innocent here. They also aren't wholly guilty as they have shown tremendous restraint up until now and it seems that they've had enough. THAT is why the world is pissed, not because they are retaliating, but HOW they are retaliating
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Originally Posted by Niccolo
here's a recent perspective: http://www.nypost.com/seven/01092009...ain_149286.htm
Interesting article, fred. The author made a good point there. I saw an Israeli politician on Sky News last night saying that Hamas is not a nationalist organisation, it is a jihadist organisation. I also read an article by Andrew Bostom, a doctor who started to research Islam and its history after 9/11. (Here's his website.) He quotes a Hamas MP called Yunis al-Astal as saying, "Very soon, Allah willing, Rome will be conquered, just like Constantinople was, as was prophesized by our prophet Muhammad. Today, Rome is the capital of the Catholics, or the Crusader capital, which has declared its hostility to Islam, and has planted the brothers of apes and pigs [i.e., Jews, Koran 2:65, 5:60, and 7:166, and other foundational Muslim texts] in Palestine in order to prevent the reawakening of Islam - this capital of theirs [Rome] will be an advanced post for the Islamic conquests, which will spread through Europe in its entirety, and then will turn to the two Americas, and even Eastern Europe. I believe that our children or our grandchildren will inherit our Jihad... " (Source.)Quote:
People who call Israel's actions "disproportionate" upset me - they just don't have a clue. What would be a proportionate response? For us to shoot unmanned missiles targeted at civilians every day? (NY Post article)
If what that Israeli politician and Dr. Bostom say is true, then some important questions arise, which ought to be considered: What kind of enemy is Israel facing? What do they want? What are they capable of? Who supports them? Have we in the West ever faced a similar enemy, and if we did, then what measures did we employ in order to defeat them?
It's worth mentioning again that so far, although plenty people attacked kittyKaiti personally for claiming that Muhammad was a warlord, a paedophile, and had committed terrorist acts - not one person has attempted to disprove those assertions. And we all know why - they can't.
Again I'll say that so far as Muslims are concerned, Muhammad is "the ideal man" and they are bound to imitate him if they wish to live what they consider to be a moral life.
Again I'll say that although the earlier parts of the Koran contain some verses apparently promoting tolerance, once Muhammad went to Medina he showed that he had a real bloodthirsty streak, and showed no mercy at all to those who crossed him.
And again, I'll say that the principle of abrogation means that the later verses of the Koran override the earlier verses, meaning that Muslims are bound to follow those verses of the Koran which tell Muhammad's followers to do all kinds of nasty things to nonbelievers. As Muhammad himself did after the Hijra.
I noticed in one of her posts Mandy said that the religion which people were "going off the deep end" of just "happened to be Islam" as if it didn't really matter much if one became a Buddhist or a Muslim, but of course it does matter - it matters a great deal. Just read the holy texts of each of those two religions, and that's painfully clear for anyone to see.
And if Hamas is not just a nationalist organisation but a jihadist organisation, then obviously, that matters too.
It matters a great deal.
:arrow:
Sorry to say it.. But I am so into the hell of tired of those Abda labbas...
They have been fighting there since?????? Anyone whos remember ???
it is a glorious thing to rid the world of muslims =they are the cockroaches of humanity.another holy crusade is needed and to scour the middle east clean would be a a great deed in gods eyes praise allah. or our house[world] will be over run with cockroaches
Didn't Hitler say that about the Jews?
Unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by russtafa
Hes only dickriding so kaiti will like him.Hes a lowlife.For those who are muslim stay strong. I personally am christian but the hate people of islam tradition take more redicule than SOME jewish people have from WW2Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel17TS
Whether it's parked on the street, dropped from an airplane, fastened to a rocket, shot from a cannon, or strapped to someone's chest, detonating a bomb in a populated area is an act of terrorism. The motive is always political. The rhetoric surrounding the act is irrelevant. The beliefs or even the identities of the perpetrator & victims are irrelevant. The political objective is irrelevant. The past acts of anyone are irrelevant. Retaliation is just a fancy word for vengeance, & it's self-perpetuating.
This intrafamily feud between the Israelis & Palistinians dates back to the argument over which son of Isaac should rule the cave they were living in & whether the elder son had sold that birthright to the younger for a bowl of soup. 5000+ years of mindless bickering & bloodshed over who Mom liked better. This would be entertaining if these fucks weren't constantly dragging everybody else into their personal squabble.
Just kick 'em out. All of 'em. Bring in the bulldozers & make the whole place uninhabitable. All claims to the land of Abraham are hereby revoked in perpetuity. It doesn't matter where they go, as long as they go. The Sea of Galilee is 1000 ft below sea level & the Jordan River flows downhill to the Dead Sea from there. Sounds like a great place to store the world's toxic & nuclear wastes. Right of return? Only if you like the idea of your kids being born with flippers instead of limbs, & sterile.
Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all. There's no clean hands anywhere over there, & I'm sick of listening to all the sniveling about which bad guy is the bad guy.
Actually, you can take Hitler's speeches & swap out the interchangeable target, Jews, with Mexicans, blacks, homosexuals, Irish, Italians, Chinese, Japanese, Armenians, Kurds, Muslims, or even Christians from a Roman point of view. Dollars to donuts it's word for word the same speech that Agamemnon used to get the Greeks all worked up against the Trojans or the one that the Pope used to kick off the crusades. It's the same rhetoric used by Bill the Butcher. A hate campaign is a hate campaign through the ages. They're all the same. Just pick your paranoia of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by SXFX
"If Mexican drug violence spills across the U.S. border, Homeland Security officials say they have a contingency plan to help border areas that includes bringing in the military."
I wonder if the US will be just as criticized as Israel... probably not. People are much more interested in being antisemitic than being pro Palestinean.
Hamas just like Hezbollah in Lebanon a few years ago are monsters. Why do you think there are as many civilians casualties as there are. They care nothing for human life, not even their people, so they operate near the schools and hospitals and neighborhoods so those people will be shields. People here criticize without knowing how miserable it is to live in South Israel in range of the rockets, and the attacks were brought on by the addition of newer rockets that have longer range and create more damage, now 1/8 of the population are in the range of the rockets.
I hope the Israelis reduce them to Ash.....years of putting up with the Hamas bullshit would deserve some serious payback I reckon.
ill ad another thought.every country where muslims are is a dump .every western country where there are there is a high percentage of muslims there is a high crime rate ,riotes,protests and a belief that they can inflict there customs and religion on that country.the jews dont do that. i live in australia and we have indonesia,malaysa right up the top of australia and laying claim to half of australia as a greater islamic state. australian jails are full of lebanese muslim criminals at a dispraportionaly percentage=usualy for crimes of violence,and they love rapeing aussie women "giveing it to them leb style".and no im not a lowlife i dont break the law or harass women and call them sluts becawse they dont wear a burka or insist on the swiming pools being segragated so their women can swim alone
Only a lowly educated person like yourself would say such things about a religion BASED on PEACE.Quote:
Originally Posted by russtafa
religions are NOT bad. People choose to be bad on their own accord.
Actually religions ARE bad: they encourage people to act without question, to believe without reason and to propagate and displace all other ways of knowing. Some religions claim to be based on peace, but every religion known to man has been based on intolerance. It's time the human race grows up and throws away old superstitions.
GTFO you underage piece of shit. You're an idiot, like alot of the people in this thread. I was refraining from posting anymore in this thread but your bullshit needed to be addressed. I never said we should kill all the Muslims. All I fucking said, out of this entire thread, was that I hate all religion and hate Islam the most because it is the only religion that hasn't learned to STFU and leave people the fuck alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by ef9hatchman
For the fucktard that called me racist. I never said I hate Arabs. Arab is a race. I have no problem with them. Islam is an ideology. It is not racist to hate an ideology. Otherwise, I'd be racist for hating Communists and totalitarianists. Fuck off you uneducated fuck. Stop bitching because I hate religion.
Religion is a cancer and has been proven evil and the cause of all the world's problems. If you don't see how organized religion is destructive and corrupt, you are an idiot. You are brainwashed. All religion is evil. Islam is just the worst of it, up there with Christianity and Scientology.
Your opinion to say religion is bad, I understand what ya mean about intolerance I think Kaiti took my tolerance over with her Grammar and shitty life beliefs (Hooked on phonics) it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Trish, its not just people believing things.Hopefully people have good Morals, and the willpower to think things through correctly.
im sorry for being lowly educated and not understanding about this so called religion based on peace=in malaysa sodomy is a jail sentence,the woman usually not the man is stoned for adultry and the word jihad is commonly used.i dont dislike other religions=budhist,jewish,hindu ,oh and all those religions seem to be haveing trouble with islam. but its always islam that seems to be suffering predudice from the others. PEACE=BULLSHIT
LOL grammar? My grammar is near perfect. I can't say the same about yours though. And shitty life beliefs? What belief is that? That all religion is evil? How is that shitty? You're the one that believes in a magical sky man that created everything and watches the world tear itself a part because of his own bullshit mistake, every so often stepping in to commit genocide. Keep on worshipping your magical terrorist man and keep giving away all your money to the Pope. I hope you feel special.Quote:
Originally Posted by ef9hatchman
Not my opinion, it's the conclusion to be drawn from the content found in all the religious texts of the world, and from the actions throughout history (including the present day) of those who practice religion. I hope people have "good morals" too. But belief in a religion is not requisite for being a moral person. Too often religion justifies immoral behaviors and this is precisely because religion is antithetical to reason and thinking "things through". Religion teaches faith, the opposite of reasoned, critical thinking, the opposite of subjecting one's beliefs to openly verifiable tests. Religion is the bane of civilization and if we do not put away our silly superstitious religions they will eventually destroy us.Quote:
Your opinion to say religion is bad
Flying Spaghetti monster
hey sorry about my spelling . i wish muslims didnt exist but then i suppose some other bunch of nasty violent intolerant bastards would replace them
Its very interesting to simply remain silent and let others speak their mind. They often do more damage to themselves and expose their own ignorance, bias or downright stupidity then I ever could by engaging in debate.
So please continue, thankfully the views expressed are not that of most Americans or Westerners I know, regardless of their religions.
"The kindest word in all the world is the unkind word, unsaid."
Too often the choice to not follow religion is the justification of immoral behaviors as well. I've met many non-religious people that did something immoral to--more or less--prove the point that God doesn't exist. Not all, of course, but it's one example. My point is just that it goes both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
That's not at all true. Religion at its core teaches one to think things through, to be reasonable, because at the opposite end of the spectrum is consequence, good and bad. Good consequence can come from thinking things through and bad consequence can come from not thinking things through. Good consequence can also come from not thinking things through and bad consequence can come from thinking things through too much. But consequence is only found in morality (those who are immoral...for example, serial murderers...serial rapists...do not fear consequence because they subscribe to a different set of morals, or have none at all).Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Absolutely. But "love" also teaches faith, the opposite of reasoned, critical thinking. My ex was a manipulative, egotistical, drunk slut with the tendencies of a pedophile. She broke my heart like no woman imaginable. Critical, reasonable thinking should lead me to the decision to not let this new person in my life because based on my own openly verifiable testing (i.e. my relationship history), I have a habit of picking women with the absolute worst possible qualities. I've known this new person for eight years and hadn't seen her in five. I've been in love with her since the moment I met her, but now that we're both grown and have seemingly put away childish things, I'm ready to take what we both acknowledged we never should've let go of in the first place (each other). And I'm ready to do so without the baggage of what any sane, rational person would guard themselves from because I'm going on the faith of what I know about her and what I've always known about her. She is completely unlike any woman I've ever known and she makes me better and I have faith she will continue to make me better. And I, to her.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
My point here is just that love teaches faith, but you don't have to believe in religion to believe in love. However, in some ways, love itself is a religion. You submit yourself to the idea of something unseen, something that, to this day, has not really been scientifically proven beyond much more of anything than several theories and mostly unverifiable "tests". We choose believe in it when things are good, when things are bad and everything else in between. I suppose it is then fair to call love a "silly superstition" also, but 'tis one I am okay with believing in if for no other reason than, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Seriously. :)
Religion isn't the bane of civilization. Intolerance and non-compassion toward differing opinions is. That's what has always separated us as a society and that is what will continue to separate us. You'll find intolerance and non-compassion in the religious and non-religious alike.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Please please please do not think I'm trying to tear you down or pick on you. I'm just speaking from my own experiences. Others are more than welcome to disagree, but if I've been disrespectful in anyway, my sincerest apologies as that was not my intention. Also, I apologize for going off topic but I thought the idea of compassion and tolerance was relative to what's not happening in Gaza/Israel.