An outsider watching the US health care debate

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09-10-2009
duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Locally to me, Nataline Sarkisyan was in the hospital down the street from my house in need of a liver transplant that Cigna constantly denied and it was only after KABC here in Los Angeles covered her story and her dire need for the transplant or she would die that Cigna finally relented and approved the transplant, Nataline died hours later from complications of Liver Failure.

Transplants are denied in countries with socialized medicine. It's not just the insurance companies that do that.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/toron...53906-sun.html

http://www.thesudburystar.com/Articl...%20SUN%20MEDIA

Certain drugs are denied to them as well.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle4474425.ece
09-10-2009
duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Seems there are several arguments all at once.

We spend TRILLIONS of dollars a year on health care period. Single Payer would spend about a 1/3 of that to cover everybody.

Not going to happen.

No other industrialized country with a health care system worth anything spends as little as 5% of GDP on health care. You may (think you can) cut it BY a third, but you aren't going to reduce it TO a third.
09-10-2009
duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Now, the problem is Insurance Companies, Medical Supply Companies and Big Pharma.

In other countries, the cost of drugs is CONTROLLED by the Government, you wonder why drugs are so cheap in Mexico? Because its REGULATED. Drugs in Sweden, Denmark, Britain, Canada even Switzerland are all REGULATED.

Keep that point in mind.

Keep this point in mind - Those countries rely on the US to do their research in pharmaceuticals.
09-10-2009
duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Now its totally unacceptable for the so-called "Best Country and Richest Country" in the World to have between 30-50 million people who for whatever reason don't have Health Insurance. 22,000 people die a year because of lack of coverage or "not having enough" coverage (under insured). Also 61% of the Bankruptcies are Medical Related.

The actual number, when you subtract out those eligible for Medicaid who have not applied, those who can afford insurance and do not get it and illegal aliens is more more 15 million. far too many, but not nearly as bad as you claim.

I'd like to see citations on the other stuff quoted here.
09-10-2009
raybbaby

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Now its totally unacceptable for the so-called "Best Country and Richest Country" in the World to have between 30-50 million people who for whatever reason don't have Health Insurance. 22,000 people die a year because of lack of coverage or "not having enough" coverage (under insured). Also 61% of the Bankruptcies are Medical Related.

The actual number, when you subtract out those eligible for Medicaid who have not applied, those who can afford insurance and do not get it and illegal aliens is more more 15 million. far too many, but not nearly as bad as you claim.

I'd like to see citations on the other stuff quoted here.

Why? You'll only twist and misrepresent that too. The facts are obviously not going to sway you. Clearly the death panels currently called the board of advisors at your favorite insurance co. have given you all the "truth" you will be willing to hear.
09-11-2009
fred41

Quote:

Originally Posted by raybbaby

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Now its totally unacceptable for the so-called "Best Country and Richest Country" in the World to have between 30-50 million people who for whatever reason don't have Health Insurance. 22,000 people die a year because of lack of coverage or "not having enough" coverage (under insured). Also 61% of the Bankruptcies are Medical Related.

The actual number, when you subtract out those eligible for Medicaid who have not applied, those who can afford insurance and do not get it and illegal aliens is more more 15 million. far too many, but not nearly as bad as you claim.

I'd like to see citations on the other stuff quoted here.

Why? You'll only twist and misrepresent that too. The facts are obviously not going to sway you. Clearly the death panels currently called the board of advisors at your favorite insurance co. have given you all the "truth" you will be willing to hear.

Actually he's cited his own "facts"..some of which, right or wrong , have yet to be refuted.

..and how about we stop labeling everyone that disagrees with the administrations ideas of government healthcare..as automatically being in the pocket of "big insurance" and "big Pharmaceutical"....that's just childish.
09-11-2009
duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by raybbaby

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Now its totally unacceptable for the so-called "Best Country and Richest Country" in the World to have between 30-50 million people who for whatever reason don't have Health Insurance. 22,000 people die a year because of lack of coverage or "not having enough" coverage (under insured). Also 61% of the Bankruptcies are Medical Related.

The actual number, when you subtract out those eligible for Medicaid who have not applied, those who can afford insurance and do not get it and illegal aliens is more more 15 million. far too many, but not nearly as bad as you claim.

I'd like to see citations on the other stuff quoted here.

Why? You'll only twist and misrepresent that too. The facts are obviously not going to sway you. Clearly the death panels currently called the board of advisors at your favorite insurance co. have given you all the "truth" you will be willing to hear.

I don't have any ties to any private insurance company other than having vehicle insurance.

Frankly, I'm open to socialized medicine - I'm just not in favor of trotting out false or misleading data to get there.
09-11-2009
Solitary Brother

People need to realize that Obama is executing a corporate agenda.
This whole bruhaha is benefiting the insurance companies.
Let me ask you this:Do you really think that the 250-300 million dollars he raised(a record) was all donated by Joe Sixpack??
Your fucking flying if you do.
The insurance companies are going to win BIGTIME no matter WHAT plan passes.
As it stands now the insurance companies will make a KILLING without the
much ballyhoo'd "public option".
Next year Obama is going to grant amnesty for the zillions of illegals in this country BECAUSE THE CORPORATIONS say so.
They call the shots.
You are FUCKED running.

<EOM>
09-11-2009
raybbaby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solitary Brother

People need to realize that Obama is executing a corporate agenda.
This whole bruhaha is benefiting the insurance companies.
Let me ask you this:Do you really think that the 250-300 million dollars he raised(a record) was all donated by Joe Sixpack??
Your fucking flying if you do.
The insurance companies are going to win BIGTIME no matter WHAT plan passes.
As it stands now the insurance companies will make a KILLING without the
much ballyhoo'd "public option".
Next year Obama is going to grant amnesty for the zillions of illegals in this country BECAUSE THE CORPORATIONS say so.
They call the shots.
You are FUCKED running.

<EOM>

LMAO! Why are the insurance companies so dead set against it? $1.4 million a day in lobbying, not to mention the campaign of misinformation, fear, and "astro-turf" protest groups. I support HR 676 myself, but saying the ins. companies are big winners in this is a stretch.
09-11-2009
Rogers

Quote:

Originally Posted by raybbaby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solitary Brother

People need to realize that Obama is executing a corporate agenda.
This whole bruhaha is benefiting the insurance companies.
Let me ask you this:Do you really think that the 250-300 million dollars he raised(a record) was all donated by Joe Sixpack??
Your fucking flying if you do.
The insurance companies are going to win BIGTIME no matter WHAT plan passes.
As it stands now the insurance companies will make a KILLING without the
much ballyhoo'd "public option".
Next year Obama is going to grant amnesty for the zillions of illegals in this country BECAUSE THE CORPORATIONS say so.
They call the shots.
You are FUCKED running.

<EOM>

LMAO! Why are the insurance companies so dead set against it? $1.4 million a day in lobbying, not to mention the campaign of misinformation, fear, and "astro-turf" protest groups. I support HR 676 myself, but saying the ins. companies are big winners in this is a stretch.

Having organizations in a health system whose raison d'être is to make a profit (and as fat a one as possible) also leads to corrupt doctors, and the corruption of medicine and science. Of course, trying to explain things like this to right-wingers, who have a rather simplistic view of life at best, is like trying to reason with a brick wall.
http://www.ct.gov/AG/cwp/view.asp?a=2795&q=414284

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