The Kinda Girl You Bring Home to Mom...

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Originally Posted by Ecstatic

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Originally Posted by TrueBeauty TS

The only way a guy and a TS can legally get married is if she had the full SRS (she would have to be Post-op) and had her birth certificate changed to "female" by the courts.

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Not quite true, TrueBeauty. Here in Massachusetts same sex couples can indeed be legally married; doesn't matter if one of them is a pre-op TS and the other an otherwise straight male. Of course, the Massachusetts law caused and is continuing to stir trouble throughout these United States, and it quite possibly cost Kerry the election this past November, but it is indeed fully legal here. Many states also honor same sex marriages performed in Massachusetts (though some have not, and the heat is just starting). Yes, technically is is seen as "same sex" marriage, but that's really irrelevant since the point of the law is NOT that same sex couples can marry (which is true), but that the sexual ID of the couple is NOT relevant to whether they can marry in Massachusetts. However, all the news stories and personal anecdotes I've heard thus far have related to gay and lesbian couples; I don't know if there's been any pre-op TS/male marriages in Mass. as yet, only that it is legal for them to marry.

Other countries are even ahead of Massachusetts, including as I understand it Canada and much of Europe. I believe that in the UK now a pre-op TS can still legally change her driver's license to read "female." That hasn't happened here...yet.

Unfortunately, you are correct about the remaining 49 states. Sigh.

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OK, I guess we both know more about our own states. Because in CA, a Pre-Op CAN legally get a drivers license that says "female" on it.

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Originally Posted by Felicia Katt

sorry to be the dark cloud around anyone's silver lining, but in several states, Courts have invalidated marriages between men and post operative transsexuals. In other states, they have refused to permit post ops to adopt or ruled against them on custody issues, strictly because of their TS status.

Perhaps in time the so-called Dark Ages will be thought of as including our own.
Georg Christoph Lichtenberg
(1742 - 1799)


Felicia

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As I said because society says somethnig or it's past into law doesn't make it right.

[quote="Hugh Jarrod"]

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Originally Posted by LBCDO

Better yet have the TS played by a real TS.

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I really dont know of any current day TS actors, and I doubt the idea will work with a real TS because then she is like hte "novelty" piece

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Originally Posted by TrueBeauty TS

OK, I guess we both know more about our own states. Because in CA, a Pre-Op CAN legally get a drivers license that says "female" on it.

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That's good to hear. I didn't know that (though actually my point was about Mass, I did mistakenly think that such was the case throughout the US). Now if CA would wrap its collective head around same sex marriage, real progress would be made. Props to the mayor of San Francisco for bucking the state to do just that, though it was overturned by the state.

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Originally Posted by LBCDO

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Originally Posted by ONEWORLD

IF THE FIRST ACCOUNTS OF GAY WEDDINGS WERE PICTURES OF GURLS LIKE VANITY AND DANIELLE GETTING MARRIED TO STRAIGHT DUDES; THERE WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN AN UPROAR OR BACKLASH…

THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NOTHING BUT SYMPATHY AND PHONECALLS ON “HOW CAN I GET ME ONE”? LOL.

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That is very very true. Problem is, that would "out" some girls, and it would take pioneers. It soudns easy on screen, but damn, i know some passable girls that are living as GGs and they would definately NOT want to be "outed". But I know some who can care less and would be willing to do something like that.

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I THINK YOU’RE MISSING MY POINT…

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE GURLS THAT ARE WILLING TO “STEP UP” TO THE ALTAR AND GET MARRIED LEGALLY; AFTER ALL, YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE ALREADY TAKEN THE BOLD & COURAGEOUS STEP TO CHANGE THEIR GENDER/ IDENTITY IN THE 1ST PLACE…

WITH THE STIMGA REMOVED, A BETTER QUESTION IS HOW MANY MEN WOULD TAKE THE PLUNGE; SHIT, IT’S HARD ENOUGH GETTING MEN TO COMMIT TO GG’S, LOL…

BUT, I’M SPEAKING OF SOCIETY’S REACTION BASED ON MEDIA COVERAGE OF THE WHOLE GAY MARRIAGE PHENOMENON LAST YEAR…FOR THE MOST PART, WE SAW COUPLES OF LIKE IDENTITY GETTING HITCHED AT THE COURT HOUSE…

HOW WOULD HAVE MIDDLE AMERICA REACTED TO PICTURES OF A VANITY OR A JASMINE INTERNATIONAL BEING MARRIED TO A MAN…MOST OF THE COUNTRY HAS NEVER BEEN CONFRONTED WITH THE IMAGES OF PASSABLE TS’S…THEY’RE USED TO RUPAUL AND THE LIKE …

FURTHERMORE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MAINSTREAM ACCEPTANCE OF GAY CULTURE; WE’RE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE EMBRACING OF THE GAY WHITE MALE…

SEX & THE CITY, WILL & GRACE, QUEER EYE, QUEER AS FOLK, ETC…

THE GAY WHITE MALE IS NOT FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHTS OF THE TRANSGENDERED…AND WE KNOW THE LESBIANS DON’T GIVE A SHIT, LOL…

THE TRANSGENDERED NEED THERE OWN VOICES & PERSONALITIES…

THEY NEED THERE OWN CARSON KRESSLEY’S, SEAN HAYES’S, ELLEN DEGENERES’S, ETC…

BECAUSE YOU WILL NEVER HEAR ANY OF THESE PEOPLE UTTER A WORD ABOUT TRANSEXUALS…

[quote="LBCDO"]

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Originally Posted by Hugh Jarrod

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Originally Posted by LBCDO

Better yet have the TS played by a real TS.

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I really dont know of any current day TS actors, and I doubt the idea will work with a real TS because then she is like hte "novelty" piece

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True but it would take someone to make that 1st step.

Here in Toronto (Canada) same sex marriage is legal. But I haven't heard of even one t-girl taking advantage of it, it's pretty much been all guys marrying guys and girls marrying girls.

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Originally Posted by ONEWORLD

I THINK YOU’RE MISSING MY POINT…

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE GURLS THAT ARE WILLING TO “STEP UP” TO THE ALTAR AND GET MARRIED LEGALLY; AFTER ALL, YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE ALREADY TAKEN THE BOLD & COURAGEOUS STEP TO CHANGE THEIR GENDER/ IDENTITY IN THE 1ST PLACE…

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No, i totally understand what you are saying, but like I said, i dont think I know many "passable" girls that are willing to "out" themselves like that
because then they are in the public eye, no longer passable. They are "that transvestite from channel 5". I know some passable TSs that are with their man and only the man knows, not his family. I understand that it takes a pioneer, onne courageous one, many of these extremely passable girls live as females, have relationships as females, and are cautious abotu who they let know about their past. Its one thing to say that we need pioneers, but what if their bosses, mother in laws, landlords, mechanics, gardnerers all see that broadcast and they get treated differently? It takes a courageous individual.

But dont get it twisted either. There is a lot that males can do to fight for TS rights as well. We can march, get our ass on the news, write letters, publicly display outrage just as much as anyone else. I agree with yo totally about the position of the gay white male and the benefits that come with that position, but all of those benefits didnt come just from that group fighting for themselves. It was a fight in general and they were scene as recognized. What I cant understand is, if the GLBT community is so big, how come that group didnt represent at the polls for the past election?

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Originally Posted by lbcdo

No, i totally understand what you are saying, but like I said, i dont think I know many "passable" girls that are willing to "out" themselves like that
because then they are in the public eye, no longer passable.

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ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY THAT THE GURLS IN PAGEANTS, BALLS, AND IN PORN WOULD BE TOO SHY TO WITHSTAND THE SCRUTINY AND MEDIA COVERAGE OF GETTING MARRIED?…

IT SEEMS LIKE YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND THE PSYCHOLOGY OF THE TRANSEXUAL…

THESE GURLS, BY NATURE, CRAVE ATTENTION AND THRIVE IN THE SPOTLIGHT…

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Originally Posted by lbcdo

I know some passable TSs that are with their man and only the man knows, not his family. I understand that it takes a pioneer, onne courageous one, many of these extremely passable girls live as females, have relationships as females, and are cautious abotu who they let know about their past. Its one thing to say that we need pioneers, but what if their bosses, mother in laws, landlords, mechanics, gardnerers all see that broadcast and they get treated differently? It takes a courageous individual.

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I ALSO KNOW THESE GURLS…

BUT THESE ARE NOT THE GURLS THAT I’M REFERRING TOO…

I’M SPEAKING OF GURLS THAT ARE ALREADY IN THE PUBLIC EYE TO A CERTAIN DEGREE…

YOU DON’T THINK A GURL THAT GRABS CHINGY’S DICK ON CAMERA ISN’T READY FOR PRIMETIME, LOL…VANITY, FOR EXAMPLE, ALREADY HAS A FOLLOWING AND A CERTAIN NAME RECOGNITION; SHE’S PASSABLE & ATTRACTIVE…SHE AND GURLS OF HER ILK COULD EASILY CHANGE OR ATLEAST SWAY OPINION IN THE GAY MARRIAGE ISSUE…

SIMPLY PUT, ATTACHING THE RIGHT FACE AND BACKSTORY TO AN ISSUE CAN INCREASE YOUR CHANCES OF SOFTENING THE OPPOSITIONS STANCE AND CHANGING OPINIONS…A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THIS IS ELIZABETH GLASER OR MAGIC JOHNSON WITH HIV/ AIDS…THERE IMAGES DID A LOT TO CHANGE PEOPLES PERCEPTIONS OF AIDS IN THE 80’S AND 90’S…

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Originally Posted by lbcdo

But dont get it twisted either. There is a lot that males can do to fight for TS rights as well. We can march, get our ass on the news, write letters, publicly display outrage just as much as anyone else.

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YOU SEEM TO GIVE THE GURLS TOO LITTLE CREDIT AND THE FELLAS WAAAAYYY TO MUCH…

SURE THERE IS A LOT THAT WE CAN DO, BUT THE QUESTION IS WHAT WILL WE DO?…

NOTHING. MOST MEN ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO KEEP TRANSEXUALS AS “THE BEST KEPT SECRET”, LOL…THESE DUDES DON’T MIND COMING TO SITES IN SECRET, OR ORDERING UP AN ESCORT WHEN NEEDED…MOST OF THESE GUYS DON’T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYTHING BUT SATISFYING THEIR URGES; AND THEN THEY WONDER WHY THEY GET SO MUCH SHADE WHEN THEY TALK TO THE GURLS BUT I DIGRESS YOU SEEM TO HAVE A GENUINE CONCERN, SO THIS DIATRIBE IS NOT ABOUT YOU, BUT BOTTOMLINE: IT IS NOT IN A MAN’S SELF-INTEREST TO HELP TRANSEXUALS BECOME MAINSTREAM…

IF TRANSEXUALS EVER BECAME MAINSTREAM, WHOA…MOST OF THESE DUDES WOULD BE RIGHT BACK TO SQUARE ONE…AS THEY WOULD BE JUDGED ON THEIR LOOKS AND HAVE TO WINE & DINE THESE GURLS LIKE GG’S, NOT TO MENTION, THE COMPETITION THEY WOULD HAVE FROM OTHER STRAIGHT GUYS, LOL…

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Originally Posted by lbcdo

I agree with yo totally about the position of the gay white male and the benefits that come with that position, but all of those benefits didnt come just from that group fighting for themselves. It was a fight in general and they were scene as recognized.

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I DISAGREE TOTALLY…

AND THAT’S ENTIRELY UNTRUE…

TOO HIS CREDIT, THE GAY WHITE MALE HAS LED THE FIGHT IN THE GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT SINCE IT’S INCEPTION IN THE 60’S, PIGGYBACKING THE BLACK CIVIL RIGHTS AND WOMEN’S LIBERATION MOVEMENTS, AND HE IS NOW ENJOYING SOME OF THE FRUITS OF HIS LABOR; THOUGH STILL VERY LIMITED…HE HAS SUCCESSFULLY DROPPED A LOT OF THE “STEREOTYPICAL” IMAGES FROM HIS MESSAGE AND HAS MADE HIS IMAGE SYNONYMOUS WITH BEING WELL-DRESSED, CLASSY, AND CULTURED…

I’M NOT BEGRUDGING THE GAY WHITE MALE AT ALL; I’M JUST URGING TRANSEXUALS TO REALIZE THAT ANY BENEFITS THAT THEY RECEIVE ARE GONNA BE FROM THEIR OWN WORK…

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Originally Posted by lbcdo

What I cant understand is, if the GLBT community is so big, how come that group didnt represent at the polls for the past election?

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…BUT THEY DID REPRESENT…

THEY DID WHAT EVERY MINORITY GROUP DOES WHEN THEY ACHIEVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SUCCESS…

THEY FORGET WHERE THEY COME FROM AND INCREASINGLY VOTE REPUBLICAN.

GAYS, BLACKS, HISPANICS, ETC…ALL VOTED IN HIGHER RAW NUMBERS AND PERCENTAGES FOR REPUBLICANS THIS YEAR…
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The majority of t-girls (generally speaking) are free spirits. That said, they don't want jack shit to do with a real relationship, until they get the chop of course. Then things change once they see they can't make money of their cock anymore.