17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

What the fuck is an anti-racist!?!?!? Someone who advocates equality among humans? Someone who respects the basic rights of every other human? People can become apologists for just about any repugnant act, belief, or philosophy but one should just embrace their inclinations - why even try to justify it? You're just a bigot and a racist Trilisser. Accept it. And don't bother trying to justify it to people who have more sense, respect, and understanding of the human condition than you do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trish

Have you never read of black men and woman being dragged to death from the backs of pick up trucks?

---

Yes, I have. But in the country I live in the situation is different and I would dare to say with 99.999 % certainty that not a single black man or a woman has been killed here for being black. In fact, I would say that my country is safer for a lone black man (or a woman) to wander around anywhere than any African country or any US state. Even the local skinheads do not pose a threat unless totally drunk.

So your previous post referred entirely to multiculturalism, liberalism, conservatism, racism and "anti-racism" in your country?

Broncofan, it seems our cultural backgrounds are very different. The political atmosphere is my country is such that a fellow painted as a "racist" by the anti-racists would not be even invited to any U.S. "racist" pow-wow. I know plenty of people who e.g. do not want immigrants from Africa, yet not a single one of them would harm an African for just being African.

The reason why I painted such a negative picture of "anti-racists" is that in my country that group is a group of people who generally do not tolerate anyone dissenting with them. Most of them are Green and many of them are diehard Communists. This very group, by the way, is often very pro-Palestinian and thus anti-Jewish. And one of their primary targets is the freedom of speech.

For example, one activist was sentenced to 2 years and 4 months in prison for "defamation, inciting against a group of people and insulting the peace of religion". Yet, a drunk driver who killed an 11-year-old girl and caused lifetime injuries to her 16-year-old sister got only 2 years and 2 months. And our anti-racists are perfectly happy with this. Again: a jail sentence for having an opinion and daring to write it on the internet. So indeed my patience is very thin with this anti-racist group.

Regarding that girl with a swastika tattoo, would it have helped if she had swastika on her left arm and a star of David on the right?:D

I have to say that though I have a been a fan of the Tza'hal since I was 13 or so, I do not like certain organizations like the one in which Abe F. is involved in. Plus my wake-up alarm call on my phone is this (the very version): Hatikva-The National Anthem of Israel - YouTube

Tim Minchin: Peace Anthem For Palestine - YouTube

You're so opaque about your background. I don't know if you're Israeli, European, etc. I disagree that because some leftists are pro-Palestinian they are anti-Jewish. Some may be anti-Jewish but not because they're pro-Palestinian.

I am sincerely hoping that you are not Israeli and complaining about immigrants from Africa. If a country wants to have a tight immigration policy that's quite different from barring entrants from certain regions because you think people specifically from that region are undesirable.

I agree with you that laws making racist incitement illegal do challenge freedom of speech. However, none of those laws could be passed in this country.

I think what runningdownthatdream said about anti-racists is helpful. Regardless of how fervent or zealous some may be in their views, what is it that they support? Equality before the law? It is much harder for that ethic to corrupt the legal process than its opposite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trilisser

Broncofan, it seems our cultural backgrounds are very different.

---

How do I know that? I don't know what your background is. You're indicating you're Jewish or Israeli. If you are really Jewish, then you can tell me why with our cultural history you think some discrimination is okay? I'm not saying being Jewish is a glass house, but if you are not strongly opposed to racism, it might as well be.

Broncofan, I am Finnish. I do assume you are a citizen of the U.S.?

You ask that do I see anything wrong with the idea of equality before the law. No, I do not. However, in my country the situation has become such - thanks to these career anti-racists - that in practice minorities are more equal than the majority. Our capital city has an employment policy stating that a representative of a minority should be hired even if his qualifications for the job are slightly lower than the qualifications of the majority applicant. Yet, the anti-racist crowd is perfectly happy with this example of outright racial discrimination.

And is it a co-incidence that virtually all cases involving that notorious "peace of religion" clause involve cases of criticizing Islam? One member of parliament was convicted for breaching this clause for he wrote that Islam sanctifies child molesting as Muhammad shared the bed with a 9-year-old girl and to Moslems anything Muhammad did is holy and thus to be emulated. This conviction is shamelessly exploited by the anti-racist crowd who paint him a downright criminal. Yet, another member of parliament was convicted for causing a death as he fall asleep while driving and he killed an innocent bystander. This member has suggested that sharia law be allowed to be adopted by the local Moslems. Hence he is the poster guy for the anti-racists.

Trust me, most of the pro-Palestinians here are card carrying leftists who hate Israel. They do proclaim to be pro-Semites, but this seems to be apply only when it is a convenient tool to bash Germans. One of the leading pets of local anti-racists is a Palestine born Arab woman who recently moved to the Netherlands after she out-cried how intolerable my country had become. This lady's reaction to Israeli citizens losing their homes to rockets launched from Lebanon was "They should go to a hotel, the Jews are so rich anyway". This same lady took part in some televised debates also accompanied by the leader of the local Jewish congregation. While the latter maintained his cool composure and rational argumentation throughout the debate, the former reeked of hatred. And she is loved by anti-racists.

Zimmerman Flees Miami, 'Bounty' on His Head

Killer of Trayvon Martin was chased by angry crowd, says TMZ

George Zimmerman is on the run: Trayvon Martin's killer attracted an angry crowd while hanging out at a beach in Miami last week and ended up fleeing the city with a bounty on his head, TMZ reports. As the story goes, Zimmerman gave an interview on Tuesday with Univision and Fusion (saying he's homeless and has PTSD) before catching rays with his brother, girlfriend, and her child. Then an angry crowd forced them back to the hotel with someone yelling about a $10,000 bounty on his head. The next day Zimmerman gave an interview with CNN and fled the city.

Is there a real threat? In this Black Panthers video, one leader claims the bounty runs to $1 million. And Time reports that in his CNN interview, Zimmerman said he has "a lot of people saying that, you know, they guarantee that they’re going to kill me and I’ll never be a free man.

http://www.newser.com/story/182523/z...gn=rss_topnews

zimmerman caught in WEB OF LIES

Zimmerman Has Zilch, Spends $3K a Month

Travon Martin Foundation gets new home


Almost a year after his acquittal in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman doesn't seem to have much in the way of a life, according to paperwork filed this month as part of his divorce case. The 30-year-old says he has no home, no job, no income, and nearly no assets apart from his 2008 Honda pickup, the Orlando Sentinel finds. But according to his financial affidavit, he still spends $3,304 a month, including $200 for psychological counseling—and $100 on vacations. He currently pays no rent.

Zimmerman, who owes his lawyers $2.5 million, has just $650 in the bank, according to the court filing, which makes no mention of the $100,000 he made by selling a painting on eBay earlier this year. Meanwhile, at Florida Memorial University, Trayvon's parents were at a ceremony late last week to welcome the Trayvon Martin Foundation they founded to its new home, reports the Miami Herald. The foundation focuses on helping families affected by violent crimes. The teenager's death "galvanized the nation," his father said at the ceremony. "It’s just proof that positive things come out of tragedy. Even though he’s not here, we know he’s looking down on us," he said.

http://www.newser.com/story/189210/z...k-a-month.html

Judge Throws Out George Zimmerman's Lawsuit Against NBC

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — A Florida judge on Monday dismissed the defamation lawsuit filed by George Zimmerman against NBC and three reporters, saying the former neighborhood watch leader failed to show the network acted with malice.

Judge Debra Nelson said the malice standard was appropriate because Zimmerman became a public figure after he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford in February 2012, generating a national conversation about race and self-defense laws.

Zimmerman "voluntarily injected his views into the public controversy surrounding race relations and public safety in Sanford and pursued a course of conduct that ultimately led to the death of Martin and the specific controversy surrounding it," said Nelson, who presided over Zimmerman's criminal trial last summer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5543711.html

George Zimmerman said I WILL KILL YOU!

ORLANDO, Fla. — A driver says George Zimmerman threatened to kill him, asking “Do you know who I am?” during a road confrontation in their vehicles, a police spokeswoman said Friday.

The driver, whose name hasn’t been released, told Lake Mary police officers that a truck pulled up to his car Tuesday and the driver yelled, “Why are you pointing a finger at me?”

The truck’s driver then asked the man, “Do you know who I am? I will kill you,” the man told police officers, said Officer Bianca Gillett, a police spokeswoman.

The man said he recognized the truck’s driver as George Zimmerman. The man pulled into a nearby gas station and called police officers, but the truck was gone by the time they arrived, Gillett said.


http://nypost.com/2014/09/12/george-...ill-me-driver/
http://nypost.com/2014/09/12/george-...ill-me-driver/
http://nypost.com/2014/09/12/george-...ill-me-driver/
http://nypost.com/2014/09/12/george-...ill-me-driver/

TWO NEW NEWS ARTICLES ABOUT ZIMMERMAN

guns get you into more trouble then they get you out of

At Home With the Zimmermans

Family keeps 'go bags' to flee, uses code names: Amanda Robb


The Zimmerman family isn't big on public life these days: They live in an undisclosed location in Florida, and to bring a GQ reporter to the rental house, they wanted her blindfolded. Ultimately, they nixed the visit, but Amanda Robb still interviewed them, and offers a portrait of their lives since what they call "the incident": the shooting of Trayvon Martin. The family—George's parents, Gladys and Bob, and his siblings, Robert and Grace—live in constant fear of attack. They watched the Ben Affleck film Argo "to learn how to live like CIA," Robb writes. That includes code names and color-coded threat warnings, as well as "go bags" packed in case they need to flee.

Meanwhile, they're "deeply in debt," with George owing lawyers $2.5 million; his parents have spent nearly $27,000 on their hidden residence and hotel rooms while still paying a mortgage on their empty house. Robert now sees himself as the "Zimmerman in charge of rebranding" the family. One idea, which hasn't panned out, was to make George into a reality-TV sensation. Robert also offers an interesting tidbit about his childhood: Bob regularly told his kids that "guns will get you into more trouble than they will ever get you out of," Robert says. As for George, they don't see him much, though he calls. He currently fears federal civil rights charges over the shooting: "He's worried that if FBI agents come and kick in his door, he's probably gonna shoot a few of them," his father says. Click for the full piece
Zimmerman Family Values
http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-...-family-values


http://www.newser.com/story/196545/a...immermans.html


----- ---------- --------- ------------ ---

Zimmerman Family Values

Until his little brother, George, shot and killed an unarmed black teenager on the sidewalk of a Florida gated community more than two years ago, Robert Zimmerman Jr. was "the family fuckup." He used the phrase with me a lot, but the first time was in October 2012, at a dark back table at the Algonquin Hotel's Blue Bar in Manhattan, six months after what all the Zimmermans call "the incident." He was downing a double gin and soda, and he was wearing a Hugo Boss suit, "diamond" earrings from Kohl's, and the remnants of airbrush concealer from a quick appearance on Fox News's Geraldo at Large. He went on to name all the ways he was a lousy namesake for his father, Bob, a former Army sergeant, and a disappointing son for his mother, Gladys, a fierce, devoutly Catholic first-generation immigrant from Peru. "Unemployed. College dropout. With a DWI and a boyfriend," he said, listing his sins. (The boyfriend was a big problem for Gladys, somewhat less so for Bob.) But then, overnight, George had become "the Wreck-It Ralph of America," and Robert—articulate, sweet-natured, maybe in over his head—was thrust into the role of family savior. "You know what that means?" he said, ordering a second gin and soda. "Zimmerman in charge of rebranding

So Robert got to work, defending his brother in the media dozens of times over the next year. The circumstances may have been grim, but the small doses of celebrity could be fun. He had both Greta Van Susteren and Sean Hannity in his phone contacts. He braved HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher, appearing on the show shortly before the first anniversary of the night that George shot Trayvon Martin. Unlike with the news channels, he got paid this time: $800. It was the only income Robert earned that whole year. He had a great time doing the show and an even better one afterward over drinks with fellow guest Donna Brazile, an African-American political operative who managed Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign. "I miss black people!" he told her.

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-...-family-values

Attorney: Man shot at George Zimmerman in self-defense

LAKE MARY, Fla. —
The attorney for a Seminole County man accused of shooting at George Zimmerman during a road rage incident on Monday said he opened fire in self-defense.


http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...medium=twitter

Zimmerman wounded in shooting

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/loc...hooting/gCSg6/

'My very first pistol was a cap'n'ball Colt
A cap'n'ball Colt
Soon found out...
It'll get you into trouble but it can't get you out..

Then I went and bought myself a Colt 45
A Colt 45
Called a 'peacemaker' but I never knew why...

...Mama says a pistol is The Devil's right hand'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Plaything

'My very first pistol was a cap'n'ball Colt
A cap'n'ball Colt
Soon found out...
It'll get you into trouble but it can't get you out..

Then I went and bought myself a Colt 45
A Colt 45
Called a 'peacemaker' but I never knew why...

...Mama says a pistol is The Devil's right hand'

---

The longer I live, and thats a pretty long time, I see these old sayings representing profound truth.

Somewhere in the Bible, Fear is called "a tool of the devil". The recent news of killings involving police, and the Zimmerman case, all involve Fear from the person doing the killing. In my city, police drove up and killed 12 year old Tamir Rice, next door to a recreation center. A tool of fear is to focus on the most negative of possibilities. I just learned on an incident in Chicago a couple of years ago. It has made recent news because the policeman was just acquitted of the charges against him. I'm not sure if he was on duty, or 'in plain clothes, and an unmarked car. He killed a young woman who was walking with three males, after one of the men pulled out a cell phone, and pointed it at him, which he claimed to have mistook for a gun. His acquittal was because his actions did not meet the charges filed by the prosecutor. A pistol allows someone to react to fear,the fastest way.

Speaking of Fear, in the Zimmerman case, I say that it was reasonable that Trayvon felt fear from Zimmerman following him. Thus, if he was banging Zimmerman's head, it was because Zimmerman created a climate of fear, in following him, even after he ran. The defense strategy involved lessening the possibility that Travonn could have be scared, because he was a future criminal. So there is Fear, and 'reasonable fear'.

@Peacemaker I say, that the gun was called a peacemaker, because the concept was about preventing violence. Solve all issues peacefully, or the 45 was the last resort.

Emergency workers talk about George Zimmerman leaving the hospital


http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/raw-...spital/vDR7jW/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natina

Attorney: Man shot at George Zimmerman in self-defense

LAKE MARY, Fla. —
The attorney for a Seminole County man accused of shooting at George Zimmerman during a road rage incident on Monday said he opened fire in self-defense.


http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...medium=twitter

Zimmerman wounded in shooting

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/loc...hooting/gCSg6/

---

Matthew Apperson's Alleged Shot at George Zimmerman was in Self-Defense



http://www.newser.com/story/206723/l...f-defense.html

http://www.newser.com/story/206671/g...-incident.html

Lynch mobs are (unfortunately) so interesting to watch...

When they succeed, we see how some view extra-judicial 'justice', and when they fail, we see how they will pounce at any opportunity to exploit weakness.

I have no particular love for George Zimmerman, though I recognized early on that he would walk free (just as the Baltimore cops will and for similar reasons, again, mark my words).

In the last series of breathless posts from natina, we see one such member of the mob seemingly gleeful with news that a person had been shot... yet we do not see from her or anyone else the follow-up, that the admitted shooter has been arrested and charged by the local PD.

Quote:

---

"After conducting numerous interviews throughout the week, detectives determined that Mr. Apperson did intentionally fire his weapon into the vehicle occupied by George Zimmerman without provocation," Gillett said in a statement.

---

Which is it? Either George Zimmerman was so amazingly smart to point a gun at his attacker and quickly roll up his passenger side window before ducking to avoid getting hit... or Matthew Apperson was so dumb to shoot through a tinted window towards where he figured the head of his target would be.

Seriously, which is more likely?

Why were any of these assholes carrying a gun?

Bobvela once again proves what an obnoxious piece of trash he is. The guilt of George Zimmerman's attacker does not sanitize Zimmerman's actions since the Martin killing. He has been accused of abusing two women (both alleged threats include accusations that he threatened them with a gun). In this case, the man who shot at Zimmerman claimed that George had threatened to kill him several months earlier and he attempted to file charges against Zimmerman but did not have any witnesses. It seems unlikely to me that three people have had such a vendetta against Zimmerman that they decided to make up stories about him, including that he made extremely creepy verbal threats that demonstrate his lack of character (threats of the "do you know who I am" variety are an example of Zimmerman trading on his reputation as a dangerous man rather than even maintaining the pretense of innocence).

In the Baltimore case, the police officers were overcharged. If it was a rough ride, that would more likely support manslaughter than second degree murder. The charges did not the last I checked have factual support because I don't think it's known when Gray suffered the injuries. However, if one of the police officers decides to cooperate it could be trouble for the other officers. I imagine something illegal did take place or a man would not have suffered a broken neck in custody. I am just not sure when or how it happened….and if there's a conspiracy of silence, you can't convict people based on their presence when someone was injured, because it's possible only some of the officers were responsible or that the officers are guilty of different crimes.

Anyhow, Bobvela is pretending that Zimmerman has had trouble since the Martin trial because of a lynch mob atmosphere. Very sorry, but the woman and her father who accused him of pointing a shotgun at them were not part of any lynch mob….and of course, everyone knows why you decided to use the phrase lynch mob…

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trish

Why were any of these assholes carrying a gun?

---

Good point. Zimmerman benefited from the lack of information (and living witnesses) available to convict him in the Martin case. He has since benefited from victims who were reluctant to come forward and in this case, a previous threat the victim (and now assailant) could not substantiate. Anyone who does not think the man has a serious character disorder at this point has one themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by broncofan

Good point. Zimmerman benefited from the lack of information (and living witnesses) available to convict him in the Martin case. He has since benefited from victims who were reluctant to come forward and in this case, a previous threat the victim (and now assailant) could not substantiate. Anyone who does not think the man has a serious character disorder at this point has one themselves.

---

I always thought that the female cousin, who stated that he sexually abused her was significant. Now look at it. It's the same pattern as outlined by broncofan. No witnesses 2. he reportedly ingratiated himself with her parents, so that she was reluctant to come forward, until much later. One additional thing; he collected money for his legal defense, then hid it from the court, then did not pay his attorneys. I still don't understand how his wife was convicted of lying, and not him when they discussed it together on the phone, while he was in jail. And it was not admissible for his court trial. If he lied to the court about finances, its not a big stretch that he would lie about the details of his encounter with Trayvon. And not that I think about it, his becoming a neighborhood watch person could have easily been part of his pattern of cloaking negative intentions. He did not think enough of his duties to follow guidelines, and not carry weapon nor pursue someone. Wasn't he a captain or something, who should have been knowledgeable? Good thing he failed at becoming a police officer.

He has killed one man, and threatened to kill three additional people (he also threw a champagne bottle at a woman's head which I did not count in that tally). Bobvela says it's a lynch mob atmosphere, which is to indicate that the public does not want to give him a fair chance and people have a vendetta against him. But the people he has had altercations with were not motivated to lie about him out of solidarity with Trayvon Martin. With the exception of Apperson, they were people he knew and threatened. Why would this Apperson guy go to the police several months earlier with a tale about Zimmerman threatening to kill him? I don't see what his motivation was to make that up.

I do not know exactly what happened in the Martin situation, but it's obvious that Zimmerman likes to pretend to be more important than he is, and likes to make threats. There's no reason to believe his version of events is anything but self-serving. I did not know about the sexual abuse yoda…that's another interesting biographical fact for Zimmerman.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobvela

I have no particular love for George Zimmerman,

---

I was thinking about this line. It's not like you to use understatement, so I think it's more likely you are being literal. You have no love for him, but that doesn't rule out general affinity for, or identification with.

I do notice that you seem to be more concerned with any rush to judgment against Zimmerman than with the civil rights of any of his victims. What have you said about the woman whose head he targeted with a champagne bottle? Does she deserve any defense? How about the other women he threatened?

If he lied to the court about finances, its not a big stretch that he would lie about the details of his encounter with Trayvon. And not that I think about it, his becoming a neighborhood watch person could have easily been part of his pattern of cloaking negative intentions. He did not think enough of his duties to follow guidelines, and not carry weapon nor pursue someone. Wasn't he a captain or something, who should have been knowledgeable? Good thing he failed at becoming a police officer.[/QUOTE]

By no means am I sticking up for Zimmerman.

However, the neighborhood watch thing wasn't really a neighborhood watch. They didn't go out on 'patrol' with each other. They didn't wear windbreakers and carry walkie-talkies and whistles and flashlights or anything like that. It was more of an after the fact thing to tell each other about burglaries that had happened and such. GZ was the head of the gossip group. Today, it would be a Facebook page for the residents of the neighborhood and he'd be one of the administrators.

So, he didn't break any neighborhood watch rules as far as carrying his gun while he was 'on patrol', or 'pursuing' since he was never 'on patrol'. None of the residents went 'on patrol'. He had a gun permit, like plenty of other people in Florida do, and he was driving in his car. There was no evidence presented at trial that he went 'on patrol' on his own, like 'Oh, yeah that creepy guy drives around and around doing laps around the neighborhood all the time, middle of the night, etc.'

He's a liar, for sure, about the money. Too bad they didn't punish him for it. Too bad it wasn't admissible at trial, so the jury would have known.

Do you feel that people have a right to follow others, if they feel that person is exhibiting 'suspicious behavior'? Zimmerman claimed that Martin was "looking around". But is that in itself, suspicious behavior? I think many would argue, that someone following you is suspicious behavior. And especially if the person being followed, attempts to evade the follower.