The evidence presented by Zimmerman. Martin was dead, so he couldn't testify.Quote:
Originally Posted by dderek123
It's a damn shame Martin didn't survive, then he could go to jail for attempted murder, right? Or would it be attempted manslaughter.? haha
Woah you're right that is a crazy claim, vigilanteism isn't what people need. Just look at what's going on in Egypt. Also agree with you on the concealed carry laws. It shouldn't be so easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
So you are happy with blowing quite a bit of tax payer dollars on a case that was unwinnable and gave the Martin family a false sense of hope? Good to know!Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
So? Nothing is inherently wrong with profiling... or are you saying he 'racially profiled'? In which case you would be contradicting yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Just 'profiled'? You probably do it 100+ times a day without even thinking about it. Which outfit goes best with the shoes you want to wear? Profiling! Am I in the mood for soup or salad with my lunch today? Profiling! This car salesmen strikes me as kinda sleazy. Profiling! Someone is banging your head into the sidewalk and you fear for your life? Profiling!
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word you are using.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
GZ ignored the police? When? And don't say the dispatcher because they are not only not police... but have as much legal authority to give orders as you do. Doubly so when their statement of "we don't need you to do that" was simply a CYA (cover your ass) move... and response being "Ok", not "screw you! I'm going to go shoot me someone!"Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Yes... I am advocating for the mass killing of teenagers... but only in gated communities. You got me!Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
There are about as many firearms in this country as it has people in it... good luck with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Given the fact that not long ago... the courts threw out the concealed handgun band in Illinois and forced the state to pass a CPL law... things are not going your way.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Of course why let facts get in the way of your clearly emotional ranting? In places that have loosened the requirements to legally carry a weapon... violent crime rates actually go down.
It will be very interesting to watch what happens in the war-zone that is Chicago as a result of the new law.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Stand your ground doesn't really apply here. In most states you have the right to use lethal force in order to prevent injury or death... the circumstances that must be in place vary from place to place, stand your ground simply does not require you to attempt to retreat or hide... something GZ was unable to do when he was mounted by TM and being repeatedly assaulted.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Did I miss a memo from the Sanford Police Department that gave GZ carte blanche to do such a thing? No... you still clearly do not understand what the meaning of vigilantism.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
I stand by what I said... ALL of our neighborhoods... gated or not would be better off if more people kept an eye out on the goings on and reported things that were off.
Again you are focusing on a specific emotional aspect and ignoring the larger picture:
- Many people throughout the country who have organized or non-organized neighborhood watch programs.
- Many people report suspicious activity about things happening to the police.
- Many people are free to walk where they have the legal right to be, even if that direction is in the same direction as someone else who may or may not be up to something.
- Many people carry legal or illegal weapons on their persons for the purpose of self-defense.
Which of the first three are you against? Because those are part of what was happened that night... & TM was just unlucky to run into and assault someone that #4 applied to.
You must be ignoring the testimony from the witnesses for the prosecution which corroborated the evidence presented by Zimmerman.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
While you laugh... there is an unfortunate aspect to that where if GZ wasn't armed that evening... TM may have caused worse injury or even death to GZ. If caught, he would be just another incarcerated black youth. While yes, TM would still be alive, but his family would still be suffering because of his actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
If GZ hadn't been armed he would have wussed out. There never would've been a confrontation, the police would've questioned Martin on what he was doing in the neighborhood and let him go his way. There would have been no crime committed because none was in progress or planned to begin with and no one would be dead. Instead, GZ carried a concealed gun and that made all the difference.
Really? How do you know that?Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
A sad thing about anti-gun bigots like you is you do not understand how the minds of those of us who carry.
You assume that when we do so we have a sense of power and invulnerability and use that feeling to do things we wouldn't otherwise (not unlike a bit of liquid courage when at a bar and trying to work up the nerve to ask someone out)... which is true for a small number of people.
Most of us treat carrying a weapon the way we do wearing shoes or carrying a wallet... as just part of our normal daily routine and just make sure we have it and do not give it a second thought until entering a place we know we cannot carry (assuming we know).
Think of how much the average guy keeps in his wallet (or women and their purse)... do they need all of that stuff every day? Nope... but would just prefer to have it on hand 'just in case' but don't give it much thought until they need their Space Camp ID card for some random reason.
Liar. If you want to get into hypotheticals... had TM not doubled back and assaulted GZ... TM would be alive today. Your insistence on blaming GZ for acting legally (but perhaps stupidly (which on it's own is not illegal)) but ignoring the criminal act of TM that directly lead to his death is pathetic and once again demonstrates you do not care about facts... you just care about blood.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
One might've hoped you would treat a gun with more caution and respect than you would a pair of shoes. It seems those who admit to carrying concealed firearms are hotheads prone to calling those who oppose them with ideas and reason "liars" and "bigots". Can people like that really be trusted with firearms? Instead them have shoes and wallets.Quote:
Most of us treat carrying a weapon the way we do wearing shoes or carrying a wallet
Wait you mean to tell me that a 17 year old would've beatin a 28 year old man to death lol gosh you conservatives.....Quote:
Originally Posted by bobvela
What a sad fucked-up country. Too many guns people, and not enough controls.
Would tighter control on gun-carrying have prevented this tragedy? Don't know, nobody does, but there can be no doubt that a culture in which carrying guns is entirely accpetable, concealed or otherwise, breeds a certain attitude.
You can have no idea just how incredibly alien and bizarre the whole set-up appears from the perspective of a country with some of the tightest gun control laws in the world.
And I know I'm safer here.
The shoes I am wearing cost ~$40 and can do little harm... the revolver in my pocket cost ~$500 and can do a great deal of harm if misused... so yes, steps are taken, but the latter does not give me some 'steel courage'Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
You again don't seem to understand the meaning of words. When you make a factually incorrect statement, one that you either know to be untrue... you are by definition a liar. Should I refer to you as a cucumber instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
What are anti-gay marriage advocates often called? Close minded? Hate filled? Bigoted? Why? Because they are intolerant of the views of others. You repeatedly show yourself to be quite intolerant of the views of those of us who safely and legally carry weapons and hurt no one... and seem to wish to stop us. What does that make you again?
Sadly for you... it's not up to you as I've been licensed to carry a good number of states... and do. No issues yet, odd that eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
I wasn't there. Were you? I'm just going based on the Q of what if GZ had not ended the fight as he did? Do you know how long TM would have gone for? Given the screams from GZ in the 911 calls... TM hadn't found a reason to stop yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silcc69
You clearly are unaware of the degrees of controls that exist today... not to mention the very real legal liabilities such an has every time they go anywhere. In some states a store owner placing a small sign can make the carrier into a felon (if found to be carrying)... other states are less restrictive.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
Why not focus then on the attitude in the war zone that is certain parts of Chicago where hundreds are injured or killed every year... and by guns owned and used by people who are not complying with existing laws & controls.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
To each country their own then.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
Gee, should we say that those who oppose the freedom to hire hit men for murder are intolerant bigots? How about those opposed to the phlogiston theory of combustion; are they bigots? Hey, about those who oppose the freedom to own children; bigots? Or those opposed to the carry of concealed firearms in public places because of the increased risk of accidental injury or death to innocent bystanders. Those people are bigots too, eh? Talk about knowing the meanings of words! You need to look up "bigotry."
I'm pretty sure your mind is just part of the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobvela
If GZ hadn't been armed he would have wussed out. There never would've been a confrontation, the police would've questioned Martin on what he was doing in the neighborhood and let him go his way. There would have been no crime committed because none was in progress or planned to begin with and no one would be dead. Instead, GZ carried a concealed gun and that made all the difference.
Yes, really. It's the most like hypothesis. You know it is.Quote:
Really? How do you know that?
No, you assume. I wasn't making any assumption about how people like you think. I merely going on what Zimmerman's own lawyer said about his client. He was afraid for his life. If his pants are full of shit, you must acquit. Haven't we all seen enough of Zimmerman to know he's a wuss who self-confidence depends on the gun he carries?Quote:
A sad thing about anti-gun bigots like you is you do not understand how the minds of those of us who carry. You assume ...
I've already said, I'm not blaming GZ. I blaming concealed carry. Subtract the gun from this scenario and everything comes out fine.Quote:
Your insistence on blaming GZ for acting...
Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Concealed carry may have saved Zimmerman's life. How far would have "the boy child" gone with punching and hitting GZ's head on the concrete?
I have held back posting on this thread waiting for the actual facts and court trial to happen. There are no winners with this event and Martin loss his life. The jury was able to focus on what happened in the court room and make their decision. Zimmerman went into the trial after over a year of spinning-of-facts, altered voice recordings, claimed to be a racist, call a white/ Hispanic (what?), etc. The local police and prosecutor saw it for what it was- self-defense. Not until the usual race and hate mongers came to town (news media, Jackson, Sharpton, Black Panthers, Obama, Holder, DoJ) did this get ramped-up with a special prosecutor appointed.
Unfortunately for Martin he chooses to fight a man with a CPL and used his firearm it to end the assault. He could have continued walking to where he was staying. Instead he came back to confront Zimmerman.
Neighborhood watches have been going on for years. Around my house we are more aware than ever with crime on the rise. Section 8 housing has brought a lot of the bad elements into the area. Guess what, they walk down the street (our sidewalks are fine) with their hoodies pulled way over their heads, and slowly go by cars looking into the windows. They are ‘scouting’. Later that night the window gets knocked-out and items get taken. Cities are cutting back on staff so when you call to report that a strange guy is scouting cars maybe they’ll send a cop in 45 minutes or so. The next day the cops come and make the report for the stuff stolen. Two of these thugs were ‘greeted’, told we’re onto what they’re doing, cops have been called, and get the fuck out of our neighborhood. B&E’s, even some broad daylight hold-ups have been happening. As GZ said, “they always get away”.
Now where is the outrage over all of the killing in Chicago? Oh, that’s Holder’s old stomping grounds.
STORY #1
40 YEARS SENTENCE for zimmerman like antics
Texas man gets 40 years in stand-your-ground case
HOUSTON -- Retired Texas firefighter Raul Rodriguez, armed with a handgun and video camera, had claimed he was standing his ground and had no choice but to use deadly force when he fatally shot his unarmed neighbor after confronting him about a noisy party.
A jury decided otherwise Wednesday, sentencing Rodriguez to 40 years in prison for killing the neighbor, Kelly Danaher, a 36-year-old elementary school teacher. Prosecutors said they are hopeful the punishment will stop others from settling matters with violence and trying to use Texas' version of a stand-your-ground law as a defense.
"I think it sends a clear message that this was not a case of stand-your-ground," said prosecutor Kelli Johnson. "And I think from his behavior, his intent, the provocation ... shows that this had ... nothing to do with self-defense."
Rodriguez, who faced up to life in prison for the 2010 killing, will be eligible for parole in 20 years. Jurors deliberated about five hours Wednesday before reaching their verdict. The same jury convicted him of murder on June 13.
His reference to standing his ground was similar to the claim made by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who is citing Florida's stand-your-ground law in his defense in the fatal February shooting of an unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin. Rodriguez's case, however, was decided under a different kind of self-defense doctrine.
During closing arguments earlier Wednesday in the trial's punishment phase, Johnson referenced Zimmerman but told jurors that case was different from what Rodriguez was convicted of doing.
In a 22-minute video he recorded that night, Rodriguez can be heard telling a police dispatcher "my life is in danger now" and "these people are going to go try and kill me." He then said, "I'm standing my ground here," and fatally shot Danaher and wounded the other two men.
STORY #2
Oklahoma City pharmacist Jerome Ersland gets life; judge refuses to suspend any prison time
A judge Monday refused to cut any time off the life term of a pharmacist convicted of murder for fatally shooting a robber.
“It's injustice of a monumental proportion,” Jerome Jay Ersland, 59, said after his formal sentencing.
His lead defense attorney, Irven Box, asked that Ersland be given probation for life. Oklahoma County District Judge Ray C. Elliott refused, saying he saw no reason to suspend any of the sentence.
“I'm going to appeal,” Ersland told a large throng of news reporters and cameramen as sheriff's deputies led him in chains to a jail elevator.
The judge's decision means Ersland likely will die in prison unless he wins on appeal, the law is changed or a governor grants clemency. Under current law, Ersland will have to serve more than 38 years before he is eligible for parole.
Box called the jury verdict a tragedy. He said the outcome “more than likely” would have been different if jurors could have heard witnesses and testimony disallowed by the judge.
“We really strongly believe that we didn't play on a level playing field,” he said. “We believe that we have a lot … of issues to appeal from.”
A jury in May chose the life term as punishment. Ersland was convicted of first-degree murder for fatally shooting an unarmed robber inside the Reliable Discount Pharmacy in south Oklahoma City two years ago.
Prosecutors said the fallen robber, Antwun “Speedy” Parker, 16, was unconscious from a shot to the head when Ersland got a second gun and shot him five more times. Prosecutors at trial called the final shots an execution. Ersland said he was defending himself and two female co-workers. He claimed the masked robber was getting back up.
A second robber, Jevontai Ingram, had fled already. Ingram, then 14, did have a gun.
2 other men sentenced
Also Monday, another judge sentenced the two men who planned the drugstore robbery. Both were convicted in May of first-degree murder for Parker's death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
MORE INFO FOR STORY #1
fire fighter pulls a zimmerman over loud music
Firefighter Shoots, Kills Neighbor Over Loud Music - YouTube
MORE INFO FOR STORY #2
OKC pharmacist guilty of murder for killing injured robber
Jay Ersland, a pharmacist from Oklahoma City, has been convicted of murder after he killed a robber during a holdup at his business in 2009.
The defense argued that it was self-defense, but Ersland had shot the robber, chased after his accomplice and came back into the store, where he unloaded his gun into the injured suspect, who was lying on the floor.
From the Daily Oklahoman:
Prater played for jurors again a security camera recording of the shooting. He stopped it at points, telling jurors the pharmacist turned his back to the downed robber to get a second gun to shoot the robber again.
“It's a human trait. You don't turn your back on something you're afraid of,” Prater said.
http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_sc...ed-robber.html
Ersland Charged With Murder in Pharmacy Shooting - YouTube
Nice post.
Some food for thought:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME
ZIMMERMAN IS A LYING SACK OF SHIT!
THOSE INTERVIEWS HE DID WHERE HE KEPT CHANGING HIS STORY IS PROOF.
florida will take care of zimmerman and the civil lawsuit will make him broke
the police said zimmerman could of avoided the incident in several ways
zimmerman created a hostile scary enviroment
the better way #1
Detective faulted George Zimmerman for not avoiding confrontation with Trayvon Martin.
ARGUMENT FOR NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE
Neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman missed two opportunities to try to peacefully approach Trayvon Martin before he fatally shot the unarmed teenager, according to an investigator's report released Tuesday.
"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern," investigator Chris Serino wrote in an arrest warrant affidavit.
The affidavit was filed more than two weeks after the shooting when the Sanford Police Department was being criticized for not having arrested Zimmerman. Serino's March 13 affidavit recommended Zimmerman be picked up for manslaughter, but a special prosecutor assigned to take over the case upped the charge to second-degree murder.
The documents released Tuesday are part of the public pre-trial records .Zimmerman, 28, maintains he feared for his life and shot Martin in self-defense under Florida's "stand your ground law." He said he fired the fatal shot only after being ambushed and brutally attacked by the 17-year-old.
The deadly encounter occurred in a gated Sanford, Fla., neighborhood where Zimmerman lived and Martin was staying with a family friend. Zimmerman called 911 to report Martin as a suspicious person walking through the area. He told the operator Martin was "up to no good" and "has his hand in his waist band."
In the report released Tuesday, police say Zimmerman contradicted himself by saying that he was initially fearful of Martin but later got out of his vehicle and followed after the teen.
"His actions are inconsistent with those of a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject," Serino wrote.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...192523670.html
the better way #1
Investigator: Zimmerman missed opportunities to defuse situation
(CNN) -- George Zimmerman failed to identify himself twice during a confrontation with Trayvon Martin and missed opportunities to defuse the situation that led to the death of the teen, a detective says in a newly released report.
Zimmerman, who served as a neighborhood watch volunteer, is charged with second-degree murder in the February 26 shooting death of Martin, 17, in Sanford, Florida.
Martin's family and civil rights activists said Zimmerman, who is white and Hispanic, racially profiled Martin and ignored a 911 dispatcher's advice not to follow him.
Also released Tuesday was an unredacted capias request, a request that someone be taken into custody, prepared by the lead police investigator in the case, Christopher Serino.
"Investigative findings show that (Zimmerman) had at least two opportunities to speak with (Martin) in order to defuse the circumstances surrounding their encounter," Serino wrote in the report. "On at least two occasions (Zimmerman) failed to identify himself as a concerned resident or a neighborhood watch volunteer."
The detective also said Zimmerman's actions "are inconsistent with those of a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject."
In the same report, Serino wrote that Zimmerman's injuries were "marginally consistent with a life-threatening violent episode as described by him."
Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's defense attorney, said it will be up to a judge and jury to interpret what Serino's report means to the case.
"I don't want to get into a battle with investigator Serino's report considering what he believed after it seems he made the decision that charges should be filed," O'Mara said Tuesday.
"The lead detective made the determination at least on two different occasions Zimmerman had opportunity to defuse the situation. When he got out the car, he could have at least said, 'I'm a neighborhood watch volunteer' to defuse the situation and it's likely Trayvon Martin would be living today," Crump said.
"The lead detective today got demoted.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/27/justic...ss_igoogle_cnn
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95racer
For me it comes down to if you believe that Zimmerman was telling the truth. However it seem like details of his story changed. Also there was the incident for which his wife is still charged over lying to the court regarding his finances. It impossible to believe that he was not working with his wife to cheat the system.
That seems to be evidence that he lied, or supported someone else lying.
It seems illogical that a past domestic violence, or whatever it was, was not able to be used as evidence of past behavior. Isn't that stuff a matter of public record? And it goes directly to the matter of violent intent. Much was made over Trayvon's marijuana use, but my understanding that Zimmerman, had been prescribed medications. Side effects of medications are public knowledge. Why should this information be excluded from the decision making process, once he took someone's life? He had to have had a diagnosis, to have been given prescriptions. How hypocritical is to use drugs as a possible cause of behavior for Martin, but excluded from evidence of the person that killed him?
By the way, does anyone know if it is legal to follow people, besides Florida? If it's only a matter of public safety, shapely young women or even a decent sized child could be able to commit a crime? So then, I could follow people around, for the sake of crime prevention. Then of course, I would get a legal permit to carry a gun, too. The future looks bright for us perverts, I mean, concerned citizens, responsible gun owners.
We would not be human, if we did not fell outraged over the killing in Chicago. We are human beings. But we also have the right to be outraged at someone who admits killing someone, to walk free without even having to submit to a drug test. People these days have to summit to drug tests for practically everything, including driving a vehicle. Zimmerman had been driving a vehicle, plus he killed someone. But I do suppose that killing a Black person, is not that big of deal to be inconvenienced. It's not like he made a sudden lane change, or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by 95racer
You statement is like saying, that if most White women who are raped, are raped by White men, including family members, You should not care that much if one was raped by a Black man. After all the 'real important'
issue is the rape done by fellow Whites. Yet, recent history there is records of Whites burning aown entire Black towns, over an alleged rape rumor, or brutally murdered over an improper remark, in the case of Emmit Till.
Black Americans are the most incarcerated population on planet Earth. And this woman had a court protection order against the person whom she fired the warning shots for.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...warning-shots/
Zimmerman's still a punk.
What started out as a bunch of paranoia driven stupid that got out of hand, has now become a state sanctioned lynching. It'll be interesting to see how fast he cashes in by lending his name to a ghost writer who'll fill up a volume with a list of cliches about standing one's ground, or myths about the enforcement powers of the neighborhood watch.
Just a few pics from my Instagram...
Shoes or wallet DON'T kill ...........Quote:
Originally Posted by bobvela
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1243409/th...NYDN-570.jpg?7
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ef=mostpopular
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ef=mostpopular
Justice Department To Review George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin Case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ef=mostpopular
I've criticized the media in this case for their poor performance of just reporting the facts. If the Prosecution 'had a good day', then report it. If the Defense 'had a good day', then report that, too. Don't pretend that the Defense never put up a case.
Stephen A. Smith of ESPN, a network which revolves around sports, and not politics, said he was angry at the verdict at first, but them he looked at the testimony for himself, without the filter of the media, via youtube, and he understands the verdict.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67WhBlXssUA
As I said in another thread, you are one confused self-loathing White man, natina. Does Zimmerman remind you of you? Is that really why you want him dead? How ironic would it have been for you to be one of the victims of that flash mob robbery attack right by you last night?Quote:
Originally Posted by natina
He had his trial, he was found not guilty. Move the fuck on.Quote:
Originally Posted by natina
She can't. Race obsession/confusion is her bread and butter. She enjoys dividing people.Quote:
Originally Posted by maddygirl
Zimmerman had his State trail, he was found innocent of murder and cannot be retried for that crime. Though he can still be sued in civil court (which imo the Martins should pursue) , and tried for civil right violations in Federal court (which imo Holder should not pursue). I agree that the issue is no longer (or should no longer be) about Zimmerman. Public discussions (imo) would be better off to focus not on Zimmerman but on the legal, legislative and social issues that played into the tragic scenario the led to Trevon's death, namely 1)Stand Your Ground laws that (whether they figure into the trail or not) encourage violence in situations where violent resolution can be averted; 2) the relative non-regulation of firearms that exists in this country; 3) the proliferation of firearms and the love some Americans seem to have for them.
She's just like the mainstream media.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino Velvet
Trayvon martin has the right to stand his ground with a brick if that was true from a man motivated by his failure to become a police officer. A wanna be cop scares you and lies about the encounter. A jury believes the lies and the perpetrator does not testify because the lies will come forefront.
the VERICT WAS NOT FAIR! A innocent child was killed because some one armed and without police proper training never identified hisellf as a concern citizen and escalated a hostile situation.
Wire's' David Simon: 'If you stand your ground with your fists and you're black, you're dead'
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertai...,5375295.story
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino Velvet
No denial or response, natina/Nathan??? Just the thumbs down, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino Velvet
Tavis Smiley Challenges O'Reilly On Black Crime: Let's 'Arm Every Black Person' See What NRA Thinks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW4VT-C_XcE
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddygirl
Read the story of Emmit Till. He was a Black 14 year old, who was brutally murdered by Whites for making a suggestive remark to a White woman. It took decades to get some justice, as they were acquitted for murder. There were/are many cases such as this, which took decades after Blacks were murdered my
Whites. so you you suggest that people, should not fight injustice. It's okay that children are murdered by anyone?