-
Judge to consider lesser charges for George Zimmerman
Judge to consider lesser charges for George Zimmerman
The Florida judge in George Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial will decide Thursday whether she will allow the jury to consider lesser charges – manslaughter and aggravated assault – when they begin deliberations on Friday.
The prosecution has requested that Judge Debra Nelson consider the lesser charges for Zimmerman, 29, the neighborhood watch volunteer charged with the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, 17. Convicting Zimmerman of second-degree murder would still be an option for the jury.
The state is scheduled to deliver closing arguments at 1 p.m. on Thursday; the defense will present its closing arguments on Friday morning.
If convicted of second degree murder, Zimmerman could face up to life in prison. Zimmerman did not testify on his own behalf during the trial.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...id=msnhp&pos=1
-
jury can consider MANSLAUGHTER as a verdict now!
After days of courtroom drama, 6 jurors deliberate Zimmerman's fate
CNN) -- After 14 days of witness testimony and arguments on both sides, the fate of George Zimmerman now rests with six women.
These jurors began their deliberations around 2:30 p.m. Friday, after Judge Debra Nelson read a lengthy list of instructions. They have three options: convict Zimmerman of second-degree murder in Trayvon Martin's death, convict him of manslaughter or find him not guilty. The judge approved the manslaughter option on Thursday, over the defense's vehement objection.
"All of us are depending on you to make a wise and legal decision," Nelson told the jurors.
The start of deliberations capped yet another emotional day in a case that has captivated many nationwide
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/12/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
All hell is going to break loose.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
I hope not, it would just play right into the storyline Fox and friends are trying to weave.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Prosecutions EXPLOSIVE Common Sense Rebuttal To Defense Closing Arguments. Zimmerman Trial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSn-yiTbI6o
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ben in LA
All hell is going to break loose.
Nah. Just half. Satan has a boatload of stupid to deal with, & can't keep up.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
George Zimmerman trial: Prosecutor blasts Zimmerman's self-defense claim during closing arguments
Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda portrayed Zimmerman as a "wannabe cop" who profiled Martin -- who he said was a boy only several weeks past his seventeeth birthday -- as a criminal. But he told the jury that it was Martin, not Zimmerman, who had reason to be in fear that evening.
"Who started this? Who followed who? Who was minding their own business? Of the two, who was the one that was armed?" de la Rionda asked the jury.
Martin, he said, would "no longer walk this Earth" because of Zimmerman's incorrect assumptions about the teen.
Playing Zimmerman's videotaped re-enactment of the altercation, de la Rionda aimed to poke holes in Zimmerman's self-defense story, saying the 29-year-old lied about following Martin.
Zimmerman claimed he got out of his car to find an address to give to non-emergency dispatchers, de la Rionda argued, but pointed out there was an address close by he could have offered without walking further into the neighborhood.
Zimmerman also claimed not to know the names of the streets in his community, de la Rionda said, though there were only three streets and he had lived there several years.
"If he's not doing anything wrong in following an individual, why does he have to lie about it?" de la Rionda asked.
The six jurors will have three options when they start deliberations as early as Friday: guilty of second-degree murder, guilty of manslaughter and not guilty.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...ing-arguments/
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL PROSECUTION CLOSING ARGUMENT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoyynTUiGcs
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
savannahguy
Justice
Not yet.
Once Bernie De La Rionda, John Guy but especially Angela Corey are disbarred... then we will be closer.
Malfeasance cannot be excused, especially when so blatant.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
So in Florida it's now ok for a vigilante to shoot an innocent black kid.
Words fail me.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
robertlouis
So in Florida it's now ok for a vigilante to shoot an innocent black kid.
Words fail me.
I agree. A shameful and shaming verdict.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Prospero
I agree. A shameful and shaming verdict.
Self-defense is a shameful act? Good to know how you think.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobvela
Self-defense is a shameful act? Good to know how you think.
Self-defence??? Listen to yourself.
How is shooting an unarmed juvenile self-defence?
Asshole.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
robertlouis
Self-defence??? Listen to yourself.
How is shooting an unarmed juvenile self-defence?
Asshole.
First... it's spelled 'self-defense', not 'self-defence'.
Moron.
Lets walk through it slower as clearly haven’t graduated from special-ed yet.
While TM was not carrying a gun or knife... the testimony does indicate he was using weapons... in the form of his fists and the ground. So much for being unarmed.
While TM was not yet 18... there are 17 year olds who are emancipated or have even enlisted in the military. Just because he is not 18 does not mean he is not responsible for his own actions.
If as the testimony suggests... that TM was running (or skipping) away from GZ... either you believe that GZ is such a fantastic runner (something no one claimed in court) that he caught up to TM who was running for out of fear or for his life... or that either TM hid and waited for GZ to approach... or doubled back.
It’s either #2 or #3… TM made the choice to confront. Stupid? Yup. Was it stupid for GZ to get out of his car and see where TM was going? Probably (doubly so with what we now know)… neither of which are illegal.
Unfortunately it seems that TM attacked GZ… and after screaming for help after multiple blows… GZ defended himself against the assault which most people (if in that situation) would reasonably believe could cause them significant injury or death.
Like it or not… the jury reached the correct verdict given the evidence presented.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
You are just plain wrog Bobvela. Probably a racist to judge by your remarks. And as for spelling Bobvela, you are a fool... do you not realise the English language has many words spelt and pronounced differently on different sides of the Atlantic. By the way we spell the word to describe you as arsehole... but it means the same as your own word asshole.
Staggering that such people exist.... if your unarmed son had been gunned down by this murderer perhaps you'd feel differently.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Zimmerman is not guilty of murder according to Florida law. I firmly believe that once someone has been found not guilty, or once someone has serve their time, they should be allowed to continue with their lives and be integrated back into society. So I hope will be the case with Zimmerman. This is not to say Martin’s family shouldn’t pursue civil action against Zimmerman. But the legal charge of murder has now been settled; and Zimmerman is not guilty.
When a prosecutor loses a case in court it clearly doesn’t mean the case should never have gone to court. Not only the prosecutor but the public and the grand jury saw the need to settle the issue of fault in this particular shooting in a court of Florida law. Had there been a serious investigation from the beginning, and had Zimmerman been arrested on the night of the shooting, this case would not have gotten a tenth of the public attention it now has. I think is was right to have a trail, to clarify what happened that tragic night, to give the Martins some closure and to give Zimmerman the opportunity to clear his name, which he has.
Yet clearly something is still amiss. An boy was walking through a neighborhood, armed with only a box of skittles. A self professed and armed vigilante views him as a suspicious character and calls 911. The police virtually ask the vigilante to back off (had they only made their request literal). He doesn’t; the vigilante confronts the boy and a scuffle ensues. The boy is shot and killed. The vigilante has lesions on the back of his head. The only thing that is clear is that if the police had got to the boy first, no one would’ve been injure, no one would be dead.
So what is wrong with this picture?
Florida’s stand your ground law.
In actual practice it’s protecting more drug dealers, gang bangers and thugs than ordinary citizens. In a street shoot out between two gangs, any surviver can claim and does claim he fired his weapon in self-defense. Of course the paradox is the dead were firing thei weapons in self-defense too.
The Zimmerman case underscores the tragedy of stand your ground laws because neither Zimmerman nor Martin were drug deals, gang bangers nor thugs. Both may have been acting in self-defense, but the law only protects the survivor who shoots, not the survivors of the dead who were shot.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
I would want my guilt to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt if I were on trial, and so would you.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Very well put Trish. Now the family will pursue a civil suit. Which they stand a much better chance of winning. That's how the law works.
A thousand newspapers will be writing about this, but locally - the N.Y.Daily News put it pretty well:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1398206
George Zimmerman verdict: Jury's decision unsatisfying but respectable given the circumstances
Although Zimmerman bears moral guilt for the killing of Trayvon Martin, the prosecution fell short of establishing beyond a reasonable doubt the 'ill will, hatred, spite or an evil intent' necessary for second-degree murder under Florida’s penal code..(read on by hitting the link..it's a good article)
It could have easily went either way on the Manslaughter count...(personally, as I may have previously stated, I wouldn't have been at all surprised if the jurors would have been hung on the second count. I believe,that if they had twelve jurors, as they do in most states with a charge of this importance, they might have argued about the second count for an even longer time...and may not even have been able to come to a verdict on it ..though I'm sure the court would have pushed for one)..but ultimately, when the jury focused on what the evidence shows,may have happened in that short period of time on the ground, they didn't think the state met their burden of proof - of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, as charged to them by the court. That's the law.
In my mind,Zimmerman did a stupid thing - being armed, but not really being physically prepared to take on the challenge of single handedly guarding his community against real or imaginary culprits. It seems like Martin may have avoided altercations also, because it does seem, according to the timeline, that he actually came back and confronted Zimmerman....after all that,we will never know what would have happened if Zimmerman didn't have a gun. Would Martin just have beat his ass and left him there to lick his wounds,or would he have been harmed much worse...or would they have just wrestled until the police arrived.
We'll never know.
But someone is dead and because of that , some people will never be satisfied by the jury's verdict. Totally understandable because of the emotions involved...but again - that's the law.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Prospero
You are just plain wrog Bobvela.
Really? Care to explain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Prospero
Probably a racist to judge by your remarks.
And you probably rape children for fun.
See how easy it is to make things up?
Or would you like to support your claim?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Prospero
And as for spelling Bobvela, you are a fool... do you not realise the English language has many words spelt and pronounced differently on different sides of the Atlantic.
By the way we spell the word to describe you as arsehole... but it means the same as your own word asshole.
So much name calling but still no specific proof of your claim that I am a racist. Again we see the quality of your arguments. Doubly so in the context of what was said above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Prospero
Staggering that such people exist.... if your unarmed son had been gunned down by this murderer perhaps you'd feel differently.
Maybe, however I am raising my son to be smart enough not to do stupid things like getting into fights... especially under circumstances which could lead to his death.
Many people carry weapons... legally or not... and unless you know your target is unarmed or that you can prevent the use of the weapon... you are a fool.
It's the same reason he's being raised to know that while he may have the right of way vs a car... the car will still win any collision and that he should be careful anytime walking across a road.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Maybe, however I am raising my son to be smart enough not to do stupid things like getting into fights... especially under circumstances which could lead to his death.
Things like never carrying a box of skittles through a gated neighborhood wearing a hoodie. Who'd a thunk that'll getcha kilt.
Quote:
It's the same reason he's being raised to know that while he may have the right of way vs a car... the car will still win any collision and that he should be careful anytime walking across a road.
So should he be run over in a cross walk enjoying his right of way, it would be wrong to hold the driver responsible. Just question him and let him go without charges.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Martin was crossing through peoples yards. Not walking along the street. Zimmerman was suspicious of that and decided to follow him.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Read this on another forum. Just copied and pasted his post.
"I present to you the facts. I also included my opinion at the end but you can feel free to ignore that part.
Who:
- George Zimmerman: - 29 Years Old - Hispanic Male - Insurance Fraud Investigator - Spearheaded a Neighborhood Watch program after a string of burglaries. - Lives in a gated community in Sanford Florida. - Record of Assaulting a Police Officer
- Trayvon Martin: - 17 Years Old. - Black Male. - Student - Suspended from school for Vandalism - Participated in and refereed illegal MMA fights. - Lives in Miami Gardens, Visiting father's France's house in Zimmerman's neighborhood.
- Rachel Jeantel - Trayvon's Friend. Originally claimed to be his girlfriend. - Was on the phone with Trayvon during the moments leading up to the shooting. - Originally claimed to be 16. That's why she was not featured before the trial. She is actually 19. - Ms. Jeantel has offered a few variations of events. For simplicity we will use the version she gave during the trial.
Where:
Sanford Florida. Gated community where Zimmerman lives as well as Tracy Martin's fiancé.
When:
February 26, 2012 between 7pm and 8pm. It was raining and getting dark.
What:
-Trayvon was visiting his fathers fiancé.
-Trayvon went to the gas station to get skittles and iced tea.
-Zimmerman notices Martin walking through people's yards.
-Zimmerman calls the non emergency line for the Local PD.
-Zimmerman describes Martin to dispatch and requests a police officer.
-Zimmerman says These Fucking Punks always get away.
-Trayvon notices Zimmerman watching him as tells Jeantel it is a creepy ass cracker.
-Trayvon continues to walk through people'a yards.
-Zimmerman gets out his his car in order to follow Trayvon and see why he is traveling through people's yards.
-Trayvon tells Jeantel "The nigga still following me"
-Trayvon begins to run towards his fathers finances house.
-Zimmerman begins to run in order to keep sight of Trayvon.
-Dispatcher hears wind noise and asks Zimmerman what he is doing.
-Zimmerman states he observing the subject and trying to find an address for the PD to intercept Trayvon.
-Dispatch tells Zimmerman "We don't need you to do that"
-Zimmerman stops and loses sight of Trayvon.
-Zimmerman heads back to his car.
-Trayvon tells Jeantel that he lost Zimmerman and he is right outside his fathers finances house.
*Up until this point Zimmerman's story and Jeantel's testimony match. Now the stories diverge.*
Zimmerman's Version: - As he is walking back to his car Trayvon approaches him and asks, "You got a problem?!" - Zimmerman says "No" - Trayvon says "You do now" - Trayvon attacks Zimmerman and smashes his head into the sidewalk. - Zimmerman draws his weapon while Trayvon is on top and fires into his chest killing him.
Jeantel's Version: (From Trial) - Trayvon is outside his Fathers finances house. - Trayvon suddenly says, "Oh Shit" - Jeantel hears Zimmerman say, "What you doing here?" - Jeantel then says she hears a bump and wet grass sounds and the phone goes out.
My opinion: - Jeantel's version doesn't make sense. If Mr. Martin was already at his Father's finances house then the altercation would have occurred there and not over a hundred yards to the north towards Zimmerman's SUV.
I think what happened was Trayvon doubled back and went looking for Zimmerman. After all he didn't feel he was doing anything wrong and would've been pissed that a white guy was following him as wanted to teach him a lesson.
I think we had two hot headed individuals that both had opportunities to walk away.
Unfortunately they didn't and one was killed.
I believe that Zimmerman had every right to simply observe Trayvon and call the police.
Unless we can prove that Zimmerman walked up to Trayvon and started a physical confrontation with him then his claim of self defense should be upheld.
Just because Trayvon was annoyed that a (what he thought was) white guy was following him does not give him the right to use any physical force.
It all comes down to who threw the first punch. Based on witness testimony and the layout of the neighborhood I believe that Trayvon doubled back and went looking for Zimmerman."
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
Things like never carrying a box of skittles through a gated neighborhood wearing a hoodie. Who'd a thunk that'll getcha kilt.
Yes, because GZ saw a person wearing a hoodie and visibly carrying skittles and said “I think I'm going to go kill him!”
I'm sorry, but no matter how often they are referenced... the hoodie, skittles & tea are irrelevant to this case as nothing more but an albatross. They existed, but were no more contributing factors than the position of the moon or the date on the calendar.
An uncomfortable truth about this case, is that our neighborhoods would be far better off if we had more people acting like GZ and fewer acting like TM.
No, I'm not saying people should go around shooting hoodie wearing people, nor that people like TM deserve to die. Think for a moment about what lead up to the death of TM without the emotional charging.
On the one side you have a person who took a proactive role in trying to make their community a better place by keeping an eye out for things that didn't seem right, calling them into the police.
On the other side, you have a person who assaulted someone who apparently asked them what they were doing there.
Is it wrong to hope for neighbors who keep an eye out and don't sucker punch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
So should he be run over in a cross walk enjoying his right of way, it would be wrong to hold the driver responsible. Just question him and let him go without charges.
First... I would hope that he wouldn't be 'enjoying his right of way' without taking steps to make sure he was/is safe in the first place. Just because the sign says walk doesn't mean you are safe to walk across.
Second... unlike you, I am not out for blood for blood sake. It would depend on the circumstances involved. Unless there was immediate evidence of alcohol, negligence or malice being involved... no, indefinite detention would not be called for. Unless a crime is strongly suspected (and even then only of certain types) or there is an immediate need to arrest... the police will often release the person involved as they gather more information... which is exactly what they did in the GZ case.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Racism. When two minorities go to court and one loses.
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dderek123
Martin was crossing through peoples yards. Not walking along the street. Zimmerman was suspicious of that and decided to follow him.
Better bring your handgun, yard cutter-throughers are known to be murderers. Better safe than sorry. You never know when you might need to stand your ground.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
He was suspicious. Would I have been? Most likely not, I probably wouldn't have even bothered following him. Carrying a gun around is wrong? Well that's a whole different issue.
I think they were both knuckleheads and this unfortunate event could have been avoided. A guilty verdict beyond a reasonable doubt was really hard to attain since there are a lack of witnesses and Jeantels version of the events wasn't believable. That's about it.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dderek123
Racism. When two minorities go to court and one loses.
To paraphrase a tweet I saw last night:
A black man is shot by a Hispanic man, who is acquitted by an all woman jury... but it's still the fault of racist white men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dderek123
and Jeantels version of the events wasn't believable.
Admitting to quite a few lies while on the stand can cause that... doubly so when some of those perjurious lies were instrumental in the bringing of the charges.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dderek123
He was suspicious. Would I have been? Most likely not, I probably wouldn't have even bothered following him. Carrying a gun around is wrong? Well that's a whole different issue.
I think they were both knuckleheads and this unfortunate event could have been avoided. A guilty verdict beyond a reasonable doubt was really hard to attain since there are a lack of witnesses and Jeantels version of the events wasn't believable. That's about it.
Yeah...and I'm glad so far everything is mostly calm...I think a lot of that stems from the given facts of this case, as seen by people that actually followed it, and realized how hard it was to be to get a guilty verdict in this case.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Two guys:
one is walking home from the local store.
one is looking for trouble with a gun.
You don't need to be a mind reader to figure this one out.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
DDerek Zinnerman was white/Hispanic not just Hispanic.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
buttslinger
Two guys:
one is walking home from the local store.
one is looking for trouble with a gun.
You don't need to be a mind reader to figure this one out.
The evidence presented in court suggests that's not how it went. I'm not a mind reader but I still know how to read. haha
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bruce Wayne
DDerek Zinnerman was white/Hispanic not just Hispanic.
Thanks for the info. So did race still have an affect on the outcome of the court case? I believe stereotyping probably had more influence.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bruce Wayne
DDerek Zinnerman was white/Hispanic not just Hispanic.
And President Barack Obama is white/black... yet he is generally only called 'black'.
Why then is it important to point out the whiteness in half of the roots of Zimmerman but not Obama?
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Zimmerman is not guilty. I'm good with that. It's good that he had a trial. I make no claims about racism in this case, though it's clear Zimmerman profiled the boy he killed. But the claim that
Quote:
our neighborhoods would be far better off if we had more people acting like GZ and fewer acting like TM.
is crazy. Really? More vigilantes ignoring the police and killing more teenagers will make our gated communities even better? What we really need is less guns, no more concealed carry, an end to stand your ground laws and no more public sanctioned vigilantism.
-
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dderek123
The evidence presented in court suggests that's not how it went. I'm not a mind reader but I still know how to read. haha
..again I agree. When the case was first reported I had a different viewpoint...but the evidence changed my mind on a few things.
I think maybe a discussion on guns and changing some laws (maybe) would once again be appropriate...but that's about it.
