Re: 2024 USA Election: Wishin' and Hopin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stavros
Re the Aurora link, quote
"However, American Immigration senior fellow Aaron Reichlin-Melnick said online that "millions of people on ICE's non-detained dockets have been here for decades."Alex Nowrasteh, of the Cato Institute public policy think tank added that the ICE report on illegal criminal convictions covers decades and not just the last few years."".
So that includes the years when Trump was President?
Has Aurora been 'taken over' by Venezuelan gangs? Do they stop people in the street and rob them? Visit residents in groups of five with guns to rob them?
At what point does a problem become a catastrophe -and when, and now did the Mafia/Cosa Nostra arrive in the US?
I had a feeling someone what is going to mention that part of the article.
It would be helpful if the person from Cato Institute gave us breakdown so we could know what percentage have been here for decades vs a few years.
Aurora may have not been taken over by Venezuelan gangs as you so sarcastically put it, but the fact that they are here is what the problem is. Especially when you take into consideration that fear of criminal gangs is supposedly one of the reasons why many Venezuelan migrants came to the United States to begin with.
When Biden was running for reelection, I always believed that if he lost it was going to be because of the two "I" issues, Immigration (Although it should be referred to Migration) and Inflation. That belief has not changed now that Kamala Harris has become the Democratic nominee.
It doesn't matter what took place during previous administrations in regards to immigration. We are talking about what has happened since the Biden-Harris administration took office in 2021 and the influx of migrants that started coming to this country since then. Instead of handling the problem, this is pretty much what we heard from the administration and their supporters:
2021- "The border is secure"
2022- "There isn't a border crisis".
2023- "Only Congress can do something about the border". (Yes I know about the bill that failed because of Trump's interference)
Cut to 2024 - Biden- "I'm taking executive action to handle the border crisis" (which BTW is similar to the word catastrophe).
Re: 2024 USA Election: Wishin' and Hopin'
Ok I was being sarcastic, but in truth I think that Immigration legal, Immigration illegal, Migration etc has become not just a toxic political problem, but one that does not appear to have a reasonable solution, and this is as true of the US as it is with the UK, and to some extent the Mediterranean.
I cannot really offer a reasonable response, other than to say that what I think is different from years past is the volume of people moving in a short space of time. This excludes those Haitians who have been admitted and seem to have found work and a degree of stability in places like Springfield, Ohio going back more than 5 years, which is why I find that aspect of the Trump/Vance hate machine so truly bad. Isn't this the kind of immigration that the US is supposed to welcome? Those leaving a distressed environment who go to the US, and work and pay taxes, etc? Have they been a curse on Ohio, or a blessing?
Germany took in over 1 million Syrians, Turkey even more. Israel has made the best part of 2 million homeless in Gaza, the potential homeless in Lebanon in one week is now approaching 1 million, or a 5th of the population, and there are significant displacements in Sudan, all of this without adding in the chronic failures in Honduras and El Salvador feeding the march North to the US. If it was the other way round, how many Israelis would be looking for an exit to the US, indeed, how many have already abandoned Israel for the US, which they could do owing to dual nationality, American relatives, and so on?
I accept that with such numbers there is a crisis of politics, but if the crisis at its root is not in the US, what can the US do about it whether it is is Trump or Biden in charge? After all, Harris went to Central America to deal with it at source, and evidently came back with nothing.
One smallish point, because here Farage goes on about it -most of these migrant/immigrant people are young and healthy so they don't cause much strain to health services.
But I guess they can work for less than the minimum wage, they must have accommodation problems when they first arrive, and if they have children, schooling and related issues. But is it impossible for the US to absorb 'newcomers' over time, say 1-5 years? How many scare stories have there been since the 19th century over 'too many' Hungarians, Italians, Chinese -name your people- 'coming here'? Over time, they are absorbed into the workforce, most get jobs, most find somewhere to live. Most are not escaped criminals or mentally ill, and most American victims of rape and murder are raped and murdered by other Americans.
And if freedom has any meaning, should all of us be free to live wherever we choose?
Immigration in the UK became a toxic issue in the late 1960s early 1970s as East African Asians were expelled from Kenya and Uganda, and because they had British passports issued when those African countries were still part of the British Empire, they could not be stopped from entering. Hysteria in the press, blatant racist filth in the media, a crisis in Govt which led to an Immigration Act in 1971 in an attempt to 'control' it. In the end, c30,000 came over a period of 5 years; of whom not a few became millionaire business successes, one of their children a prominent (but corrupt) Member of Parliament. In other words, it was a crisis, we got over it, the immigrants were successful, nobody now talks about it.
At the very least, I would hope people reject the horrible, nasty rhetoric of Trump and Vance, that they at least try, and try again for a reasonable solution that doesn't play to fear and loathing. Because it won't stop, whatever happens in Govt in the US (or the UK). Sorry I can't be more positive.
Re: 2024 USA Election: Wishin' and Hopin'
Food for thought...
With the exception of Trump, Democrats have been in the White House for 12 out of the last 16 years.....
Re: 2024 USA Election: Wishin' and Hopin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blackchubby38
Aurora may have not been taken over by Venezuelan gangs as you so sarcastically put it, but the fact that they are here is what the problem is. Especially when you take into consideration that fear of criminal gangs is supposedly one of the reasons why many Venezuelan migrants came to the United States to begin with.
Some things never seem to change in the USA.
"The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists.
These undesirables were Irish."
https://www.history.com/news/when-am...refugee-crisis
Regardless of what should have been done on the border, the alleged link between immigrants and crime (which you seem to be endorsing) does not appear to be supported by evidence. Obviously a single case does not establish a general problem. In fact, the available evidence suggests that the crime rate among unauthorised immigrants is lower than that of the general population.
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/...n-citizen-rate
I'm sure they never mention this in the NY Post, but it's also a fact that the biggest recent increase in crime in the US occurred in 2020 when Trump was President. Crime rates have been declining since 2021.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-relea...ion-statistics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate
Re: 2024 USA Election: Wishin' and Hopin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
filghy2
Some things never seem to change in the USA.
"The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists.
These undesirables were Irish."
https://www.history.com/news/when-am...refugee-crisis
Regardless of what should have been done on the border, the alleged link between immigrants and crime (which you seem to be endorsing) does not appear to be supported by evidence. Obviously a single case does not establish a general problem. In fact, the available evidence suggests that the crime rate among unauthorised immigrants is lower than that of the general population.
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/...n-citizen-rate
I'm sure they never mention this in the NY Post, but it's also a fact that the biggest recent increase in crime in the US occurred in 2020 when Trump was President. Crime rates have been declining since 2021.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-relea...ion-statistics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate
Yeah, I don't need the history lesson when it comes to immigration in the United States. I know it chapter and verse.
I'm also not endorsing a link between immigrants and crime. I'm giving an update on one story and the other is relevant to an issue in the upcoming election. Its not my fault that the New York Post is one of the few news organizations that isn't behind a paywall.
When it comes to immigrants and crime. The problem isn't with the ones that are here looking for a better a life. It is the ones that were criminals before they came to the United States and are continuing to do so once they got here. Which is once again the issue. Those are the ones that shouldn't have been allowed to cross the border.
Speaking of which, how do you think a migrant from Venezuela who came here seeking a better life feels when they know that some of the people who are responsible for them leaving their country in the first place, wind up being in the same facilities as them.
Finally, in regards to the recent increase in crime. What happened in 2020 that played a part in that happening? The pandemics and lockdowns. Which is further evidence that if it wasn't for Covid, there is a good chance Trump would have been reelected.
Re: 2024 USA Election: Wishin' and Hopin'
But that just returns us to the maddening question: why do so many Americans think Trump -and the people associated with him- would be good for the USA? Most everyone knows Trump is a liar, and most, I am sure, know he is, to use that American phrase, a 'dumbass'. But he is not Ronald Reagan, not even GW Bush, so I remain puzzled at the appeal of such an angry, spiteful, crude individual who seems to think revenge should be the main driver of policy. And yet, the majority of Americans who did vote in 2020, as in 2016, voted Democrat not Trump, so while this might shift the ultimate decision to the Electoral College rather than the people, Trump remains somewhere near the top. And what Covid did was expose the simple fact that Trump, and his White House team, were incompetent at management, or worse, that they presided over the death of a million Americans and did not, and do not seem to care about that. Science, like democracy is Bullshit, Nick Fuentes is a dinner guest, Tucker Carlson America's only public intellectual, Elon Musk the Visionary Commander of Comms.
And we return to that other unanswered question -if Trump were to encourage the Supreme Court to send crucial decisions to the State, declining to get involved, what would be the purpose of Congress? And why not make the Presidency merely a ceremonial position?
Four more years of Trump and the 'United States' might become 50 independent ones, with the scary prospect that were Trump to put it to voters half of the current 50 would say Aye. It would be like Brexit, the one outcome that was the least expected takes the US into a new era -of chaos, with violent hated at its core, and Trump making millions if not billions from whatever tacky merchandise he can make, having raided the Treasury for his own benefit, and either imprisoned his rivals, or used the courts to bankrupt them.
The furore over criminals entering the US illegally and staying is thus used as the wedge to prise apart the Union. Or maybe the truth is that the South never changed, they never lost the Civil War, just a heap of battles; they just retreated in a 'stand down and stand by' mode, waiting for their Messiah to return and lead them to ultimate victory, and send the Blacks back to Africa.
The future's bleak, the future's orange.
Re: 2024 USA Election: Wishin' and Hopin'
A win for the Globalist ran Democrats will be a disaster for the US , i do get the people over there have had their brains frazzed by the media into believing on one side Trump is the devil and in the other he is the Messiah.
A classic example of just how brainwashed people have become is when the same people who rushed to get the vaccine refused point blank to get it when he was in power, insanity but we're living in a Clown World now where rapists and murderers are being let out of prison to make room for people who are worried about the crazy rise in crime statistics since our politicians rolled out the red carpet for anyone with a pulse who isn’t a British citizen
Re: 2024 USA Election: Wishin' and Hopin'
^^Premier League novel writing at its finest
Quote:
A Saturday afternoon in November was approaching the time of twilight, and the vast tract of unenclosed wild known as Egdon Heath embrowned itself moment by moment
‘Return of the Native’ byThomas Hardy (with a little help from Monty Python)
Re: 2024 USA Election: Wishin' and Hopin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JDunn
A classic example of just how brainwashed people have become is
.....believing that only two parties exist........
Re: 2024 USA Election: Wishin' and Hopin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JDunn
A win for the Globalist ran Democrats will be a disaster for the US , i do get the people over there have had their brains frazzed by the media into believing on one side Trump is the devil and in the other he is the Messiah.
A classic example of just how brainwashed people have become is when the same people who rushed to get the vaccine refused point blank to get it when he was in power, insanity but we're living in a Clown World now where rapists and murderers are being let out of prison to make room for people who are worried about the crazy rise in crime statistics since our politicians rolled out the red carpet for anyone with a pulse who isn’t a British citizen
I don't understand the point about vaccines, and after 200 years of immunology, a science that has transformed global health, I am amazed anyone can ignore the science to make some lame political point that, if extended into practice, would reverse those gains and lead people to infection, misery and possibly death.
As for the 'rapists and murderers...being let out of prison', this is explicitly not part of the Govt's policy, and is something that about 10 seconds of a google search would confirm (other search engines being available),
"Fact check: Early prison release to exclude serious violent and sexual offenders - PA Media
And anyway, this thread is not about politics in the UK but the US elections.
The disaffection with 'Globalism' that is a key feature of the Trump campaign has grown since 2008 and the supply chain crisis since Covid, but is rooted in something quite different, namely Economic Nationalism. What is most fascinating about this is how Conservatives in the US have, in effect, abandoned the Free Market economics of Ronald Reagan, who was President when as JD Vance once put it 'all those jobs were shipped to Mexico' through NAFTA.
What Economic Nationalism does is reinforce the concept of the 'Nation' as the fundamental unit of identity, with the difficulty of knowing who belongs in this 'Nation' -but if you look at the French version, Marine Le Pen has stated 'there is no longer a left or a right, there is only Globalists and Patriots', a revision of the old racist, anti-Semitic slogan 'La France aux Français', which in a mangled form was key to the racist element in Brexit.
It is also known as the politics of failure, which is why Trump represents a crisis for the US as neither he nor his supporters share the same fidelity to the Constitution and what it represents as most other Americans. There is a lot riding on this election.
