Is Tgirl a better word - and should that become the norm?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

No honestly I have no issue with them saying that, here is why.

I don't presume to know 100% what it's like to be a woman, just like I don't presume to know what it's like to be post-operative. At this moment in my life, because I'm non-op I will never know it. It's why when I speak to post-operative trans-women it fascinates me. I even sometimes yearn for that side of life, however I just don't feel the surgery is up to par for my liking.

I know I'm a transsexual woman and what I deal with. I know a 100% what being a transsexual is about. That's what I DO KNOW.

I am a woman in my mind, but I think I miss out on things a cis woman deals with. Just like many women I have spoken to who can't have babies they feel like they are missing on something about being a woman.

It's not a superiority thing..it's about knowing that trans-women/men identify as the opposite sex they were born and crossdressers, transvestites, drag queens are typically CIS people that do it part time. They live as men and are happy that way. They are typically treated like any other man as long as nobody knows.

A transsexual doesn't have that luxory, but what we do have is contempt and confusion from mainstream society thinking we do it for sexual purposes, fetish, laughs, and financial purposes. That's what we get..so you really don't understand why it would annoy us??

---

Great post Kelly.

Not to mention a genetic woman IS RIGHT when she says she isn't like us.

Genetic women don't have to deal with dysphoria..ridicule for being something society deems they aren't...labeled the freak/secret...the list goes on.

I think the closest thing women can compare to our problems is when talking to some of my BBW porn friends are the bbw chasers and how society treats fat women even award shows..that would probably be the closest thing women can have to compare our situations..I was shocked to hear how similar the way they are treated by men.

We are different that's just truth..maybe in the future with technology we will have the possibilities of babies etc or a way to find out if a transsexual is a transsexual from birth.

WHO KNOWS...but all I do know is I'm not a crossdresser, transvestite, drag queen and we are not the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

I would like to know how we are the same Krissy?? Other than that we were all born genetically male...

---

We are human.
We both live on Earth.
We both breath oxygen.
We both have hearts.
We both have feelings.
We both have minds.
We both face fears.
We both face insecurities.
We both have dreams.
We both have hopes.
We both desire love.
We both desire to be loved.

Do I need to go on?

What you're really asking is this... (you're just too scared put it in writing):

Krissy, aren't you [just] a CD? Why are you comparing yourself to me, a full-fledged, perfect Transsexual?

*sigh* This is where such conversations always devolve.

This is my problem with the academic, Transsexual community. This is always your fallback position when challenged because you have not thought out the beliefs you espouse. The "just", although implied, also implies superiority, by default.

Because I have chosen to this point in my life, not to alter my body and continue to live as male, you make a leap in judgement that I cannot possibly be Transsexual.

On one hand, you think that spending money on surgeries, taking hormones, and living "as a woman" makes you one (THIS IS IMPORTANT - SO THINK ABOUT THIS: people cannot see what you think, so that is irrelevant to the discussion). Largely, genetically born women would wholly disagree with you... and in fact, call you a male... which you would take as a "slur".

On the other hand, you've no problem doing that exact same thing to someone who truly and actually FITS the definition of Transsexual on the inside but has no outward appearance of it. Instead you judge the outward appearance for the inward person.

Which one is more right? Neither. That is my point.

Academic Transsexuals need to stop "judging" who is Transsexual or not and instead focus on educating the public about why THEY ARE HUMANS... not freaks of nature... not sexual deviants... not deserving of pity... but smart, educated, HUMANS that have a place in today's society.

I will state this plainly - ANY Trans-Activism that does not start with the premise that we are all human and equally deserving of respect is doomed to fail because there is no argument that I've come across to make a valid point for Trans-equality otherwise.

This is purely a numbers game for me. Transsexuals lack the votes and numbers to accomplish anything. Period. That is just simple math. They must get some fucking humility and ask for help. This is the way the Transgender community (and all other communities) can help the Transsexual one and why the two must unify.

Honestly I had no idea you were/are a crossdresser..so again you are putting issues you had in your past on me...

Krissy I don't even know what your talking about I never said hormones, surgeries etc make you a woman or even a transsexual...

I said it has everything to do with what's going on between the ears..

You sweetheart must have had a lot of issues in your past with other trans-women that you are putting words in my mouth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

No honestly I have no issue with them saying that, here is why.

I don't presume to know 100% what it's like to be a woman, just like I don't presume to know what it's like to be post-operative. At this moment in my life, because I'm non-op I will never know it. It's why when I speak to post-operative trans-women it fascinates me. I even sometimes yearn for that side of life, however I just don't feel the surgery is up to par for my liking.

I know I'm a transsexual woman and what I deal with. I know a 100% what being a transsexual is about. That's what I DO KNOW.

I am a woman in my mind, but I think I miss out on things a cis woman deals with. Just like many women I have spoken to who can't have babies they feel like they are missing on something about being a woman.

It's not a superiority thing..it's about knowing that trans-women/men identify as the opposite sex they were born and crossdressers, transvestites, drag queens are typically CIS people that do it part time. They live as men and are happy that way. They are typically treated like any other man as long as nobody knows.

A transsexual doesn't have that luxory, but what we do have is contempt and confusion from mainstream society thinking we do it for sexual purposes, fetish, laughs, and financial purposes. That's what we get..so you really don't understand why it would annoy us??

---

Kelly,

please, Please, PLEASE stop and think about what you just said.

You just stated that you don't care if women (and by default men, since they would have even more reasons than women to do such things) disparage, mock, and act in a bigoted manner towards Transsexuals because you are unable to relate to them 100%.

You have just given a blank check to all manner of bigotry. Congratulations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Kelly,

please, Please, PLEASE stop and think about what you just said.

You just stated that you don't care if women (and by default men, since they would have even more reasons than women to do such things) disparage, mock, and act in a bigoted manner towards Transsexuals because you are unable to relate to them 100%.

You have just given a blank check to all manner of bigotry. Congratulations.

---

You know what I'm fine with that. Do you wanna know why?? You didn't say mock, disparage etc..

You said women who say they are NOT LIKE a transsexual..which is true..

Bullying someone on their personal choices and the way they live their life if it's not breaking the law or hurting anyone is wrong on all accounts.

I don't feel I'm bullying when I say we are different...

I don't presume I will ever change everyone's mind. It is something I dealt with long ago. If I worried about every person in society including other trans-wome that deemed me not a woman, a freak, an abomination I'd be a walking crazy person. Which I feel many trans-women are because they try so hard to fit in and need the validation from mainstream society. When I worry about people that actually want to learn about us and may have an open mind to treat us as the men and women we are! This is why I get annoyed with word transgender, because the media use it for every genetic born male in a dress. It confuses the masses that read the article. It's why I'm thrilled girls like Janet Mock, Laverne Cox, and Carmen Carrera are getting so much tv time in people's homes to understand the differences.

I am not sure what you are so worked up about.

All I know is AGAIN...A crossdresser, drag queen, transvestite are different than a transsexual. You can debate all you want, my opinion will not change. They are CIS people they do not suffer from GENDER dysphoria..The body does not make you what you are! What's in between the ears does..

I prefer to refer to you gals as "special ladies", not "Trans, Tranny, TG, TS or etc."!!! I am open to using the term or terms that are most comfortable and respectful to you. I will defer to you to advise me as to what you like best.:shrug

Oops I hate my iPhone WHAT not when

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

Honestly I had no idea you were/are a crossdresser..so again you are putting issues you had in your past on me...

Krissy I don't even know what your talking about I never said hormones, surgeries etc make you a woman or even a transsexual...

I said it has everything to do with what's going on between the ears..

You sweetheart must have had a lot of issues in your past with other trans-women that you are putting words in my mouth.

---

Look Sweetheart,

You're misreading or not understanding my post... (The "you" is "Transsexuals" not you, personally)

I said (the bold is important like I stated) those things are the only outward markings of being a woman that you have. Unless you're Jamie, you don't wear a T-shirt around that says "Tranny" on it... or maybe you do? Therefore, you have only outward markings that people perceive as "female" to let the world know that you are identifying as a "woman" as opposed to a "male". Thus the public perception of you is based upon those things... not what you think about yourself. Thus "thinking" or "knowing" you are Transsexual is completely irrelevant.

Anyway:

On one hand, you say it is "between your ears" if you are or are not Transsexual. (You have admittedly said that, yes?)

On the other hand you say (paraphrasing here) "I (and I am assuming you mean, "Transsexuals are..." am different from all CD/TV/DQ". (You have admittedly said that, yes?)

You have yet to say the two can co-exist in the same body.

Just say that if you believe it and suffer the wrath of the academic Transsexual crowd who vastly disagrees with you. This is, perhaps, the single-most important point that Transsexual and Transgender individuals must agree on and thus why I push back on it so much.

That will end the conversation right there and put you down, at least in my book, as reasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Look Sweetheart,

You're misreading or not understanding my post... (The "you" is "Transsexuals" not you, personally)

I said (the bold is important like I stated) those things are the only outward markings of being a woman that you have. Unless you're Jamie, you don't wear a T-shirt around that says "Tranny" on it... or maybe you do? Therefore, you have only outward markings that people perceive as "female" to let the world know that you are identifying as a "woman" as opposed to a "male". Thus the public perception of you is based upon those things... not what you think about yourself. Thus "thinking" or "knowing" you are Transsexual is completely irrelevant.

Anyway:

On one hand, you say it is "between your ears" if you are or are not Transsexual. (You have admittedly said that, yes?)

On the other hand you say (paraphrasing here) "I (and I am assuming you mean, "Transsexuals are..." am different from all CD/TV/DQ". (You have admittedly said that, yes?)

You have yet to say the two can co-exist in the same body.

Just say that if you believe it and suffer the wrath of the academic Transsexual crowd who vastly disagrees with you. This is, perhaps, the single-most important point that Transsexual and Transgender individuals must agree on and thus why I push back on it so much.

That will end the conversation right there and put you down, at least in my book, as reasonable.

---

I had surgery Krissy for MYSELF...so I could look in the mirror and see the WOMAN I believe I am.

I am still having surgeries to gain the look I feel I should appear as.

FOR ME..so when I look in the mirror I'm not CRYING or DEPRESSED that all I see is a man or man features.

Something Crossdressers do not DEAL WITH..they want to look like woman for fantasy or fetish.

We want to appear as the women we ARE..so we are happy not only with ourselves but also get treated as the women we ARE..

So I am not quite clear what you are talking about.

At the end of the day a CROSSDRESSER, A DRAG QUEEN, A TRANSVESTITE...are NOT like US!! There is no SUPERIORITY saying that.

You are the one that comes off SUPERIOR...NOT I..

Do I feel a transsexual can be crossdresser?? No...I don't..

Do I feel a transsexual can be a drag queen? Yes, I do..because it's a job..female impersonation is a job..Do I feel more transsexuals would be pageant girls and/or strippers if they could make a living that way? YES, I feel that drag is an outlet for them.

Do I feel transsexuals are transvestites?? NO..I don't know any transsexual that gets off wearing panties/pantyhose

I think you have a chip on your shoulder..


I don't feel they can co-exsist in the same body..

I stated what I thought just because someone enjoys being a woman doesn't always mean they are a transsexual.

A transsexual is someone that identifies as the OPPOSITE SEX they were BORN..

Plain, simple, and easy..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

We are human.
We both live on Earth.
We both breath oxygen.
We both have hearts.
We both have feelings.
We both have minds.
We both face fears.
We both face insecurities.
We both have dreams.
We both have hopes.
We both desire love.
We both desire to be loved.

Do I need to go on?

...

I will state this plainly - ANY Trans-Activism that does not start with the premise that we are all human and equally deserving of respect is doomed to fail because there is no argument that I've come across to make a valid point for Trans-equality otherwise.

This is purely a numbers game for me. Transsexuals lack the votes and numbers to accomplish anything. Period. That is just simple math. They must get some fucking humility and ask for help. This is the way the Transgender community (and all other communities) can help the Transsexual one and why the two must unify.

---

:iagree:
I agree that appealing to our shared humanity is the most effective form of advocacy. I and think that showing are selves as people has made things better in recent years. I also agree that the decision to or not to transition is a personal and complicated one. I am not a "professional advocate", but I have helped one of my friends who is more politically active try to get slightly better services for homeless gender non-conforming people, after one of our friends was severely beaten outside a shelter. I have many friends who have detransitioned (temporarily or permanently) mostly for economic reasons, related to employment discrimination. And others who live and work as male for only those reasons. I have no issues people who choose not to transition. Its a hard road that is not right for everyone. People who have not gone down that road, in my opinion do not have the experience to lead others though it, but they can be great advocates and allies.

I hope I bring a little more light and little less heat here,
Crystal

Most crossdressers don't want to help us..they vote Republican and are Republican.

So not quite sure of the UNITY there lol

Edited by me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

You know what I'm fine with that. Do you wanna know why?? You didn't say mock, disparage etc..

---

Kelly,

I'm not worked up. We're still having a discussion. I'm not angry. I'm not mad. I've cursed once for emphasis and it wasn't at you. I still respect you as an individual. I'm not anything but trying to make some points.

Maybe I have a very, VERY basic misunderstanding of your personal goals here so let me ask this:

Do you think (MtF obviously) Transsexuals are women?
Do you think that there should be men, women, and Transsexuals or that there should just be "men" and "women"?

Because it kinda seems like you're not really sure... which I think is pretty much the entirety of the fight Transsexuals want. Treat them like women. They are women. Don't label them as "other" since they are women.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

Most crossdressers don't want to help us..they vote Republican and are Republican.

So not quite sure of the UNITY there lol

---

Can I have your data to back up that claim?

If you don't have any... retract the statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Can I have your data to back up that claim?

If you don't have any... retract the statement.

---

All the crossdressers I have met at parties or interacted with online have been Republican..

A big portion of my fan base are crossdressers TBH, because most of my earlier roles were as a top. They want the sissification etc.

I get crossdressers yelling at me constantly for my views and are PURE REPUBLICANS..

And all the ones I met at rallies, support groups, and conventions were also REPUBLICAN..

I don't think voting Republican does the TRANS-COMMUNITY any service and I even had crossdressers tell us transsexuals to shut up and don't ruffle feathers.

The list goes on...

Krissy you are just trying to argue to argue now..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Edited by me.



Kelly,

I'm not worked up. We're still having a discussion. I'm not angry. I'm not mad. I've cursed once for emphasis and it wasn't at you. I still respect you as an individual. I'm not anything but trying to make some points.

Maybe I have a very, VERY basic misunderstanding of your personal goals here so let me ask this:

Do you think (MtF obviously) Transsexuals are women?
Do you think that there should be men, women, and Transsexuals or that there should just be "men" and "women"?

Because it kinda seems like you're not really sure... which I think is pretty much the entirety of the fight Transsexuals want. Treat them like women. They are women. Don't label them as "other" since they are women.

---

I feel we are women, but I think we are TRANS-Women.

We are a different type of woman, because our femininity happens up stairs the outside is a plus.

Where as a CIS woman are women by society standards and scientific standards.

I think society puts too much emphasis on body and private parts to be honest.

Which I feel is what you are doing, because you are adamant in saying we relate to one another.

We only relate to one another by being born genetically male..the rest ends there...as far as gender identity goes.

Look Krissy the simple fact is you don't get it. And the reason you don't get it is that you aren't a transsexual. It's OK honey really. I didn't get it too well either before I transitioned.

From the other side of the fence I look back and wonder how I could have been so blind about it despite the fact that I WAS transsexual even though I hadn't transitioned yet. The answer is that I simply lacked the life experience living as my true self to fully comprehend what that would mean. At the time I had also not spent years on HRT, and I promise you that hormones WILL change your brain. But beyond that I had not given up the privileges and security that are part and parcel of being an outwardly hetero male in this society. I hadn't gone through the struggles of a legal name change, hadn't dealt with the misogynist behavior of men towards women, hadn't dealt with the mess that medical care becomes when you are born with male genitalia but live your life as a woman. In short I had no concept of what it was to live my life as a woman or as transitioned transsexual until I actually lived it. Because of that I was completely unqualified to determine questions like, "Is the word tranny offensive?" And I was utterly unsuited to speak for the experience of transsexual women.

I don't think transvestites or cross dressers are less then what I am I just think that they are different from what I am. They have a different life experience and are better able to advocate for their group then I would ever hope to be. I certainly believe that some of them really are transsexuals and that one day they may transition, but until they start that journey they have no place speaking for me or any other transsexual.

You are not less then or inferior to me or to Kelly or Bella or any other transsexual woman, you are simply different from us.

Edited by me. Context is not changed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

Do I feel a transsexual can be crossdresser?? No...I don't..

Do I feel a transsexual can be a drag queen? Yes, I do..because it's a job..female impersonation is a job..Do I feel more transsexuals would be pageant girls and/or strippers if they could make a living that way? YES, I feel that drag is an outlet for them.

A transsexual is someone that identifies as the OPPOSITE SEX they were BORN..

---

Good grief.

Kelly... surely you MUST realize how insanely irrational this is.

A crossdresser cannot be Transsexual but a Drag Queen CAN? WTF???

I suppose the next questions would logically be:

Can a Crossdresser be a Drag Queen? To which you would logically, in fact HAVE to answer "NO" (because then crossdressers could indeed be Transsexual)

Likewise I could also ask, "Well then, can a Drag Queen be a crossdresser?" Which again, you would have to answer "NO" (for the same reason).

Both of those answer are pure silliness. Crossdressers and Drag Queens overlap all the time. I think that is indisputable.

Simply put, you, in fact, having already stated in writing that you were once a Drag Queen, must include them as being possibly Transsexual since you now claim the title yourself. It's not hard to see what you're doing. You're unwilling to admit you were ever a crossdresser so you substitute Drag Queen for the title... which really, and I mean this with all due respect, is utterly laughable. Just be honest and say, "Yes, I was once lived my life as a male and wore women's clothing. In that respect I am like you. Please add that to the list of things that make us similar even though I am not willing to publicly admit it."

This is insanity and I don't really feel we can continue a conversation if this is your point of view because you're not being honest and / or rational.

Anyway, like I said, I'm not mad. I think you have a good heart. Confused on some issues, but you have taken the time to write and I think that is worth something.

Thanks for the discussion, which I have enjoyed, and I wish you a good rest of your day and good luck with your book.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msbhaven

Look Krissy the simple fact is you don't get it. And the reason you don't get it is that you aren't a transsexual. It's OK honey really. I didn't get it too well either before I transitioned.

From the other side of the fence I look back and wonder how I could have been so blind about it despite the fact that I WAS transsexual even though I hadn't transitioned yet. The answer is that I simply lacked the life experience living as my true self to fully comprehend what that would mean. At the time I had also not spent years on HRT, and I promise you that hormones WILL change your brain. But beyond that I had not given up the privileges and security that are part and parcel of being an outwardly hetero male in this society. I hadn't gone through the struggles of a legal name change, hadn't dealt with the misogynist behavior of men towards women, hadn't dealt with the mess that medical care becomes when you are born with male genitalia but live your life as a woman. In short I had no concept of what it was to live my life as a woman or as transitioned transsexual until I actually lived it. Because of that I was completely unqualified to determine questions like, "Is the word tranny offensive?" And I was utterly unsuited to speak for the experience of transsexual women.

I don't think transvestites or cross dressers are less then what I am I just think that they are different from what I am. They have a different life experience and are better able to advocate for their group then I would ever hope to be. I certainly believe that some of them really are transsexuals and that one day they may transition, but until they start that journey they have no place speaking for me or any other transsexual.

You are not less then or inferior to me or to Kelly or Bella or any other transsexual woman, you are simply different from us.

---

Well said hon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Edited by me. Context is not changed.



Good grief.

Kelly... surely you MUST realize how insanely irrational this is.

A crossdresser cannot be Transsexual but a Drag Queen CAN? WTF???

I suppose the next questions would logically be:

Can a Crossdresser be a Drag Queen? To which you would logically, in fact HAVE to answer "NO" (because then crossdressers could indeed be Transsexual)

Likewise I could also ask, "Well then, can a Drag Queen be a crossdresser?" Which again, you would have to answer "NO" (for the same reason).

Both of those answer are pure silliness. Crossdressers and Drag Queens overlap all the time. I think that is indisputable.

Simply put, you, in fact, having already stated in writing that you were once a Drag Queen, must include them as being possibly Transsexual since you claim the title yourself. It's not hard to see what you're doing. You're unwilling to admit you were ever a crossdresser so you substitute Drag Queen for the title... which really, and I mean this with all due respect, is utterly laughable.

This is insanity and I don't really feel we can continue a conversation if this is your point of view.

Anyway, like I said, I'm not mad. I think you have a good heart. Confused on some issues but you have taken the time to write and I think that is worth something.

Thanks for the discussion and I wish you a good rest of your day.

---

Drag Queen is a job.

Cross Dressing is a fetish.

Transsexual is a state of mind.

A transsexual can start out as a part time cross dresser, get work as a Drag Queen and eventually transition to full time as a fully accepted transsexual female (that's my term of course not a society one).

Cross dressers can be drag queens but a TRUE cross dresser is not a transsexual and will never transition to full time status.

Transsexuals can work as drag queens but are not defined by their job title.

Hope this helps your understanding.

BTW these are my opinions only and may differ from those of Kelly or other transsexuals

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Edited by me. Context is not changed.



Good grief.

Kelly... surely you MUST realize how insanely irrational this is.

A crossdresser cannot be Transsexual but a Drag Queen CAN? WTF???

I suppose the next questions would logically be:

Can a Crossdresser be a Drag Queen? To which you would logically, in fact HAVE to answer "NO" (because then crossdressers could indeed be Transsexual)

Likewise I could also ask, "Well then, can a Drag Queen be a crossdresser?" Which again, you would have to answer "NO" (for the same reason).

Both of those answer are pure silliness. Crossdressers and Drag Queens overlap all the time. I think that is indisputable.

Simply put, you, in fact, having already stated in writing that you were once a Drag Queen, must include them as being possibly Transsexual since you claim the title yourself. It's not hard to see what you're doing. You're unwilling to admit you were ever a crossdresser so you substitute Drag Queen for the title... which really, and I mean this with all due respect, is utterly laughable.

This is insanity and I don't really feel we can continue a conversation if this is your point of view.

Anyway, like I said, I'm not mad. I think you have a good heart. Confused on some issues but you have taken the time to write and I think that is worth something.

Thanks for the discussion and I wish you a good rest of your day.

---

You don't read a CROSSDRESSER is TYPICALLY A STRAIGHT MAN!

SOMEONE THAT IDENTIFIES AS A WOMAN WAS NEVER EVER A CROSSDRESSER EVER!!!!!!!

Just because they didn't take PILLS or get SURGERIES doesn't mean they aren't TRANSSEXUALS..

Many transsexuals are part timers that other girls may consider crossdressers, but consider them TRANS-WOMEN JUST LIKE MYSELF. DO YOU KNOW WHY?? BECAUSE THEY DEAL AND THINK THE SAME WAY I DO..

You need everything in black and white..everything has to go in perfectly to be one or the other.. which is not the CASE...

Again let me re-state what I said earlier JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE GETS USED TO THE IDEA OR LIKES THE SATISFACTION THEY GET FROM BEING THE OPPOSITE SEX DOES NOT MAKE THEM A TRANSSEXUAL! NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY LOOK..HOW MANY SURGERIES HAVE..THE LIST GOES ON.

This is why we have PSYCHOLOGIST and more to deal with TRANSITION. So they know that we are making the right and SANE choice for US..

You count a crossdresser a crossdresser obviously just because they aren't on the road to transition. When I know plenty of men that I stated earlier that are too scared to take the leap, because of either society/family reasons or financial reasons. I still count them as transsexuals. If those individuals voted and the men and women that were into us voted we would be unstoppable.

You on the other hand are silly..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Edited by me. Context is not changed.



Good grief.

Kelly... surely you MUST realize how insanely irrational this is.

A crossdresser cannot be Transsexual but a Drag Queen CAN? WTF???

I suppose the next questions would logically be:

Can a Crossdresser be a Drag Queen? To which you would logically, in fact HAVE to answer "NO" (because then crossdressers could indeed be Transsexual)

Likewise I could also ask, "Well then, can a Drag Queen be a crossdresser?" Which again, you would have to answer "NO" (for the same reason).

Both of those answer are pure silliness. Crossdressers and Drag Queens overlap all the time. I think that is indisputable.

Simply put, you, in fact, having already stated in writing that you were once a Drag Queen, must include them as being possibly Transsexual since you claim the title yourself. It's not hard to see what you're doing. You're unwilling to admit you were ever a crossdresser so you substitute Drag Queen for the title... which really, and I mean this with all due respect, is utterly laughable.

This is insanity and I don't really feel we can continue a conversation if this is your point of view.

Anyway, like I said, I'm not mad. I think you have a good heart. Confused on some issues but you have taken the time to write and I think that is worth something.

Thanks for the discussion and I wish you a good rest of your day.

---

You don't read a CROSSDRESSER is TYPICALLY A STRAIGHT MAN!

SOMEONE THAT IDENTIFIES AS A WOMAN WAS NEVER EVER A CROSSDRESSER EVER!!!!!!!

Just because they didn't take PILLS or get SURGERIES doesn't mean they aren't TRANSSEXUALS..

Many transsexuals are part timers that other girls may consider crossdressers, but I (me, myself and I) consider them TRANS-WOMEN JUST LIKE MYSELF. DO YOU KNOW WHY?? BECAUSE THEY DEAL AND THINK THE SAME WAY I DO..

You need everything in black and white..everything has to go in perfectly to be one or the other.. which is not the CASE...

Again let me re-state what I said earlier JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE GETS USED TO THE IDEA OR LIKES THE SATISFACTION THEY GET FROM BEING THE OPPOSITE SEX DOES NOT MAKE THEM A TRANSSEXUAL! NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY LOOK..HOW MANY SURGERIES THEY HAVE..THE LIST GOES ON.

This is why we have PSYCHOLOGIST and more to deal with TRANSITION. So they know that we are making the right and SANE choice for US..

You count a crossdresser a crossdresser obviously just because they aren't on the road to transition. When I know plenty of men that are in fact transsexuals that I stated earlier that are too scared to take the leap, because of either society/family reasons or financial reasons. Yes, I still count them as transsexuals. If those individuals voted and the men and women that were into us voted we would be unstoppable.

You on the other hand are silly..

Drag queen is a job I don't see much difference in a crossdresser and a drag queen when they live as a men and enjoy their life as a man but dress here and there for whatever reason. But when a transsexual does DRAG she is still a TRANSSEXUAL..just like when an UNTRANSITIONED MALE who identifies as a woman is STILL A TRANSSEXUAL even if she does not TRANSITION EVER..she was never A CROSSDRESSER..because a CROSSDRESSER is someone who is happy living as what they were born as! It's not hard to understand...

I think you are the one that's confused sweetheart, not I...

A drag queen is a job..female impersonation is a job..many of these gay men don't even enjoy dressing up they get out of it asap after the show..but they like the $$ and the admiration that comes with it. Many trans-women do drag to not escort and to do pageants, because many want to be a pageant girl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

Krissy you are just trying to argue to argue now..

---

How in god's green earth is asking for data for something you said trying to "argue" ? I'm interested in how you came up with that conclusion.

Are you saying we should all just be able to spout off anything we want and not be questioned for it?

C'mon, Kelly. I just asked you for the data. That's all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

You don't read a CROSSDRESSER is TYPICALLY A STRAIGHT MAN!

SOMEONE THAT IDENTIFIES AS A WOMAN WAS NEVER EVER A CROSSDRESSER EVER!!!!!!!

Just because they didn't take PILLS or get SURGERIES doesn't mean they aren't TRANSSEXUALS..

Many transsexuals are part timers that other girls may consider crossdressers, but I (me, myself and I) consider them TRANS-WOMEN JUST LIKE MYSELF. DO YOU KNOW WHY?? BECAUSE THEY DEAL AND THINK THE SAME WAY I DO..

You need everything in black and white..everything has to go in perfectly to be one or the other.. which is not the CASE...

Again let me re-state what I said earlier JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE GETS USED TO THE IDEA OR LIKES THE SATISFACTION THEY GET FROM BEING THE OPPOSITE SEX DOES NOT MAKE THEM A TRANSSEXUAL! NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY LOOK..HOW MANY SURGERIES HAVE..THE LIST GOES ON.

This is why we have PSYCHOLOGIST and more to deal with TRANSITION. So they know that we are making the right and SANE choice for US..

You count a crossdresser a crossdresser obviously just because they aren't on the road to transition. When I know plenty of men that I stated earlier that are too scared to take the leap, because of either society/family reasons or financial reasons. I still count them as transsexuals. If those individuals voted and the men and women that were into us voted we would be unstoppable.

You on the other hand are silly..

Drag queen is a job I don't see much difference in a crossdresser and a drag queen when they live as a men and enjoy their life that way. But when a transsexual does DRAG she is still a TRANSSEXUAL..just like when an UNTRANSITIONED MALE who identifies as a woman is STILL A TRANSSEXUAL even if she does not TRANSITION EVER..she was never A CROSSDRESSER..because a CROSSDRESSER is someone who is happy living as what they were born as! It's not hard to understand...

---

You give far more credit then even I would give my pre transition self and that shows a generosity of spirit that should convince most people you don't view yourself as superior or better than others. I have mad respect for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

You don't read a CROSSDRESSER is TYPICALLY A STRAIGHT MAN!

---

I DO READ AND A DRAG QUEEN IS TYPICALLY A GAY MALE!
(Want the data to back that claim up?)

Kelly,

You're missing the point completely. I am not saying "ALWAYS"... I said "CAN".

Extrapolate:

Gay men (the Drag Queen) can be Transsexual.
Straight men (the Crossdresser) cannot be Transsexual.

This is what you've just said. Does that make ONE OUNCE of sense at all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

I DO READ AND A DRAG QUEEN IS TYPICALLY A GAY MALE!
(Want the data to back that claim up?)

Kelly,

You're missing the point completely. I am not saying "ALWAYS"... I said "CAN".

Extrapolate:

Gay men (the Drag Queen) can be Transsexual.
Straight men (the Crossdresser) cannot be Transsexual.

This is what you've just said. Does that make ONE OUNCE of sense at all?

---

No I did not say that Krissy..

I said crossdressers, drag queens, and/or transvestites that IDENTIFY AS CIS PEOPLE are not TRANSSEXUALS..the are not like US..

They identify as what they were born! Plain and simple.

To me a transsexual is someone that never felt comfortable in their own skin..they knew upstairs there was something wrong.

I'm sure like MSbhaven said she looks back now and thinks how did ever not know. I'm sure it was always there it just took some time to get out. I would not ever deem crossdresser, even when she thought she was at the time!

Sorry about it.. that's how I feel.

Being a transsexual is state of mind..point blank..thee end..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msbhaven

Look Krissy the simple fact is you don't get it. And the reason you don't get it is that you aren't a transsexual. It's OK honey really. I didn't get it too well either before I transitioned.

From the other side of the fence I look back and wonder how I could have been so blind about it despite the fact that I WAS transsexual even though I hadn't transitioned yet. The answer is that I simply lacked the life experience living as my true self to fully comprehend what that would mean. At the time I had also not spent years on HRT, and I promise you that hormones WILL change your brain. But beyond that I had not given up the privileges and security that are part and parcel of being an outwardly hetero male in this society. I hadn't gone through the struggles of a legal name change, hadn't dealt with the misogynist behavior of men towards women, hadn't dealt with the mess that medical care becomes when you are born with male genitalia but live your life as a woman. In short I had no concept of what it was to live my life as a woman or as transitioned transsexual until I actually lived it. Because of that I was completely unqualified to determine questions like, "Is the word tranny offensive?" And I was utterly unsuited to speak for the experience of transsexual women.

I don't think transvestites or cross dressers are less then what I am I just think that they are different from what I am. They have a different life experience and are better able to advocate for their group then I would ever hope to be. I certainly believe that some of them really are transsexuals and that one day they may transition, but until they start that journey they have no place speaking for me or any other transsexual.

You are not less then or inferior to me or to Kelly or Bella or any other transsexual woman, you are simply different from us.

---

No, Honey... you don't get it.

I have stated publicly, ON THIS BOARD, now that I identify as "transsexual". It is you and your ilk (I know that sounds bad, but for lack of a better word) who refuse to come off of your lofty thrones and bestow the title upon me... which is fine and not my point (and really, I could care less, regardless of what it sounds like). I am strong enough not to need yours or anyone else's validation for myself as a person.

Why am I still not afforded the title? Because I still "live" as a male. Big whoopie. Why should the way you live matter at all if it is "in between the ears" as Kelly postulates. Because I haven't spent thousands of dollars altering my body and instead have chosen to provide a solid and financially viable future for myself I cannot be Transsexual?

Let me ask you this question. If, tomorrow, I went out and changed my name, and started living 100% full time as a woman, are you in fact, saying that suddenly that would "make me Transsexual" and I would be welcomed with open arms by you, by Kelly, and by everyone else? I would suddenly be one of you, instead of one of them?

I would guess no. Y'all would come up with some other silly reason. Oh, you're just modifying your body... you still THINK like a man, and thus you are. Oh, you're too old... you can't be Transsexual unless you've transitioned by the time you're 23. Oh... etc. etc. etc.

Like I have already stated... I could care less about labels and what people think about me. Which is why I put it all out there... everything... my life story out there to read. I don't care. I am who I am and as I get older, I realize that I want to do something that is apart from myself and will live beyond me.

What I care about now is unifying the Transgender umbrella and fighting towards a common goal instead of this backbiting and undermining. Nothing will ever get accomplished otherwise... for all this talk Transsexuals do about wanting equality... I see few involved in the porn industry actually doing anything about it. I am... and it starts with trying to unify this fractured and broken community, which I'm beginning to realize now... is not going to happen on this board.

That's fine. There are other avenues and methods to pursue. I wish I could move forward with the support of some voices here but minus those, I'll still continue with my plans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

No, Honey... you don't get it.

I have stated publicly, ON THIS BOARD, now that I identify as "transsexual". It is you and your ilk (I know that sounds bad, but for lack of a better word) who refuse to come off of your lofty thrones and bestow the title upon me... which is fine and not my point (and really, I could care less, regardless of what it sounds like). I am strong enough not to need yours or anyone else's validation for myself as a person.

Why am I still not afforded the title? Because I still "live" as a male. Big whoopie. Why should the way you live matter at all if it is "in between the ears" as Kelly postulates. Because I haven't spent thousands of dollars altering my body and instead have chosen to provide a solid and financially viable future for myself I cannot be Transsexual?

Let me ask you this question. If, tomorrow, I went out and changed my name, and started living 100% full time as a woman, are you in fact, saying that suddenly that would "make me Transsexual" and I would be welcomed with open arms by you, by Kelly, and by everyone else? I would suddenly be one of you, instead of one of them?

I would guess no. Y'all would come up with some other silly reason. Oh, you're just modifying your body... you still THINK like a man, and thus you are. Oh, you're too old... you can't be Transsexual unless you've transitioned by the time you're 23. Oh... etc. etc. etc.

Like I have already stated... I could care less about labels and what people think about me. Which is why I put it all out there... everything... my life story out there to read. I don't care. I am who I am and as I get older, I realize that I want to do something that is apart from myself and will live beyond me.

What I care about now is unifying the Transgender umbrella and fighting towards a common goal instead of this backbiting and undermining. Nothing will ever get accomplished otherwise... for all this talk Transsexuals do about wanting equality... I see few involved in the porn industry actually doing anything about it. I am... and it starts with trying to unify this fractured and broken community, which I'm beginning to realize now... is not going to happen on this board.

That's fine. There are other avenues and methods to pursue. I wish I could move forward with the support of some voices here but minus those, I'll still continue with my plans.

---

So wait are you a crossdresser or a transsexual??

Obviously you're transsexual, because you're seem so vehement on being called a crossdresser.

A transsexual again has nothing to do with surgeries or hormones! That's just an added bonus to transitioning.

Transitioning has nothing to do with age or any of the non-sense you are putting on us..

Inside Krissy do you feel as woman or do feel as a man?

I've been an activist since I was 16...

Again Krissy I had no idea you were a crossdresser in the first place so I don't know where your attitude and putting words in my mouth is coming from.

Edited by me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msbhaven

Transsexual is a state of mind.

---

This one statement undermines the entirety of your post.

If Transsexual is a "state of mind" (only) then it can be changed.

In fairness, I will give you a chance to revise that, or clarify. Otherwise I will continue. Ready. Set. Go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Edited by me.



This one statement undermines the entirety of your post.

If Transsexual is a "state of mind" (only) then it can be changed.

In fairness, I will give you a chance to revise that, or clarify. Otherwise I will continue. Ready. Set. Go.

---

There is no reason to edit it

Being a transsexual is identifying as the opposite of what you were born..


We wouldn't know that unless we had BRAINS..everything we do..everything we think..everything we believe..everything we know has to do with the upstairs.

Being a transsexual is a state of mind it's all to do with the upstairs..the need for surgeries, hormones, and the other has to do with our brains telling us we need these things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Edited by me.



This one statement undermines the entirety of your post.

If Transsexual is a "state of mind" (only) then it can be changed.

In fairness, I will give you a chance to revise that, or clarify. Otherwise I will continue. Ready. Set. Go.

---

I beg your pardon. In an attempt to over simplify it so you couldn't legalize your way around the concept I misspoke. You are correct state of minds are changeable. Let me try again then. Transsexualism is an incongruity between what the brain identifies itself as and the physical body that contains said brain.

That being said, an un transitioned transsexual simply lacks the life experience to dictate to or speak for a transsexual who has been through transition and lives their life as their self identified gender. Just as I can not speak for post operative transsexual woman because I lack their life experience it is wrong for you to attempt to speak for somebody like myself because you lack the life experience that qualifies you to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

So wait are you a crossdresser or a transsexual??

Obviously you're transsexual, because you're seem so vehement on being called a crossdresser.

A transsexual again has nothing to do with surgeries or hormones! That's just an added bonus to transitioning.

Transitioning has nothing to do with age or any of the non-sense you are putting on us..

Inside Krissy do you feel as woman or do feel as a man?

I've been an activist since I was 16...

Again Krissy I had no idea you were a crossdresser in the first place so I don't know where your attitude and putting words in my mouth is coming from.

---

Kelly,

Look into that dripping vat of honey you're standing in and figure it out. Figure it out.

And what activism where you engaged in at 16 and have continued since then? I'm not being snotty... truly curious.

Well, it seems like Kelly and Msbhaven disagree on what "Transsexual" is. Hmmm... surprise, surprise. One says there is no need to change the stated definition and then the other one changes it. Hmmm... Two equally vocal Transsexuals can't agree on a definition and then put forth ones that are inherently different in meaning.

You two Dears put your heads together and come up with one definition that you both agree on, mmmk? Then get back to me and we'll take it from there.

Thanks Honeys!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Kelly,

Look into that dripping vat of honey you're standing in and figure it out. Figure it out.

And what activism where you engaged in at 16 and have continued since then? I'm not being snotty... truly curious.

---

I laugh at this..I'm not even going to respond after this.

My activism is out there...whether I did by serving on a board...partaking at events..helping girls get into school as females like I did MYSELF in El Paso, Illinois as a FEMALE with 2500 people..I just rejoined activism on the front lines again with NCTE..

I help young transitioners all the time with my blog. I help the men that are into us.. the list goes on sweety..

So please do not try to invalidate me..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

No, Honey... you don't get it.

I have stated publicly, ON THIS BOARD, now that I identify as "transsexual". It is you and your ilk (I know that sounds bad, but for lack of a better word) who refuse to come off of your lofty thrones and bestow the title upon me... which is fine and not my point (and really, I could care less, regardless of what it sounds like). I am strong enough not to need yours or anyone else's validation for myself as a person.

Why am I still not afforded the title? Because I still "live" as a male. Big whoopie. Why should the way you live matter at all if it is "in between the ears" as Kelly postulates. Because I haven't spent thousands of dollars altering my body and instead have chosen to provide a solid and financially viable future for myself I cannot be Transsexual?

Let me ask you this question. If, tomorrow, I went out and changed my name, and started living 100% full time as a woman, are you in fact, saying that suddenly that would "make me Transsexual" and I would be welcomed with open arms by you, by Kelly, and by everyone else? I would suddenly be one of you, instead of one of them?

I would guess no. Y'all would come up with some other silly reason. Oh, you're just modifying your body... you still THINK like a man, and thus you are. Oh, you're too old... you can't be Transsexual unless you've transitioned by the time you're 23. Oh... etc. etc. etc.

Like I have already stated... I could care less about labels and what people think about me. Which is why I put it all out there... everything... my life story out there to read. I don't care. I am who I am and as I get older, I realize that I want to do something that is apart from myself and will live beyond me.

What I care about now is unifying the Transgender umbrella and fighting towards a common goal instead of this backbiting and undermining. Nothing will ever get accomplished otherwise... for all this talk Transsexuals do about wanting equality... I see few involved in the porn industry actually doing anything about it. I am... and it starts with trying to unify this fractured and broken community, which I'm beginning to realize now... is not going to happen on this board.

That's fine. There are other avenues and methods to pursue. I wish I could move forward with the support of some voices here but minus those, I'll still continue with my plans.

---

OK so we are redefining the parameters of the conversation then I suppose. So you identify as transsexual, congratulations. When do you plan to transition? Why haven't you started transition? How much of your time do you spend as Krissy? Do you do anything besides porn shoots as Krissy? What steps have you taken to facilitate transition? Have you be to a therapist for a diagnosis? When do you plan to start HRT? Have you started legal proceedings to legally change your name? Have you started facial hair removal?

All of these questions need answers if you expect people to take your claim of transsexulism seriously.

Just for the record, I've never spent one dime on surgery (don't have the dimes to spend on it) and even if I did it would be about looking younger for me not more feminine (GRS excluded of course). I work a regular 9 to 5 job as my female self and I started transition after I was in my 30s. My one regret is that I didn't start sooner and that I hid it from so many people for so much of my life. I spent my time in front of the camera to feed my ego, spent my time on cam to earn a pay check until a day job came my way, and even was an escort when I wasn't sure if I would ever be hired by anybody as myself. I once thought the same way you do, the same way most pre transition transsexuals do and I'm not trying to insult you because I was brutally insulted when I was first starting out by more then one person. But until you have lived it, you just can't get it the way a girl like myself does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Kelly,

Look into that dripping vat of honey you're standing in and figure it out. Figure it out.

And what activism where you engaged in at 16 and have continued since then? I'm not being snotty... truly curious.

---

.

My activism is out there...whether I did it by serving on a board PRIDE...partaking at events..Speaking at colleges...speaking at conventions..helping girls get into school as females like I did MYSELF in El Paso, Illinois as a FEMALE with 2500 people it's out the there interviews are everywhere..I just rejoined activism on the front lines again with NCTE..

I help young transitioners all the time with my blog Secretkelly.com. I help the men that are into us.. the list goes on sweety..

I didn't get into porn till I was 26...STEVEN can tell you that...

The first scene I did was for TSSEDUCTION

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msbhaven

OK so we are redefining the parameters of the conversation then I suppose. So you identify as transsexual, congratulations. When do you plan to transition? Why haven't you started transition? How much of your time do you spend as Krissy? Do you do anything besides porn shoots as Krissy? What steps have you taken to facilitate transition? Have you be to a therapist for a diagnosis? When do you plan to start HRT? Have you started legal proceedings to legally change your name? Have you started facial hair removal?

All of these questions need answers if you expect people to take your claim of transsexulism seriously.

Just for the record, I've never spent one dime on surgery (don't have the dimes to spend on it) and even if I did it would be about looking younger for me not more feminine (GRS excluded of course). I work a regular 9 to 5 job as my female self and I started transition after I was in my 30s. My one regret is that I didn't start sooner and that I hid it from so many people for so much of my life. I spent my time in front of the camera to feed my ego, spent my time on cam to earn a pay check until a day job came my way, and even was an escort when I wasn't sure if I would ever be hired by anybody as myself. I once thought the same way you do, the same way most pre transition transsexuals do and I'm not trying to insult you because I was brutally insulted when I was first starting out by more then one person. But until you have lived it, you just can't get it the way a girl like myself does.

---

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=84544

Guess you should maybe get to know who you're talking with before you open your mouth?

So, I will answer all of your questions following your answering of this one. So, your latest definition is the one you want to use... you don't want to further enhance, change, or alter it? I'm asking for a very pointed reason so think it over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Well, it seems like Kelly and Msbhaven disagree on what "Transsexual" is. Hmmm... surprise, surprise. One says there is no need to change the stated definition and then the other one changes it. Hmmm... Two equally vocal Transsexuals can't agree on a definition and then put forth ones that are inherently different in meaning.

You two Dears put your heads together and come up with one definition that you both agree on, mmmk? Then get back to me and we'll take it from there.

Thanks Honeys!

---

It's not so much that we disagree dear it's that Kelly is more tolerant then I am. She is willing to give people a pass that I am no longer so quick to grant. I respect her tremendously for it but I've grown tired of pre transition transsexuals trying to say they are just like me when in fact they aren't. That aren't by life experience and they aren't by level of commitment to who they are inside. I think it's great that Kelly can see that potential in certain pre transition individuals. Her experience with that group has been far better then mine apparently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyShore

.

My activism is out there...whether I did it by serving on a board PRIDE...partaking at events..Speaking at colleges...speaking at conventions..helping girls get into school as females like I did MYSELF in El Paso, Illinois as a FEMALE with 2500 people it's out the there interviews are everywhere..I just rejoined activism on the front lines again with NCTE..

I help young transitioners all the time with my blog Secretkelly.com. I help the men that are into us.. the list goes on sweety..

I didn't get into porn till I was 26...STEVEN can tell you that...

The first scene I did was for TSSEDUCTION

---

OK, wasn't really asking all that but, thanks for the brief history.

How's that definition coming along...? You willing to stick with yours too (you may want to get together with Msbhaven because you both have fairly different definitions of "Transsexual"... and it really should be a pretty easy to answer since you both claim the title and thus should readily know how to define yourselves... and, you've been an activist since you were 16 and all)?