Good for you. Now go deal with your fires.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
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Good for you. Now go deal with your fires.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
2 images which sum up the thick, narcissistic, bloated, orange bigot in this crisis perfectly...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
Attachment 1243585
Attachment 1243584
i really can not understand some people: you have the world (the whole world itself) in front of you that is facing a crisis and let me only tell you one thing... Negate it is not going to fade this problem away...
I can only tell you one thing to you who live in the US: do not believe that this situation is going to be solved in few weeks like your president is telling you... the death count will go on for months ...
and even if the governement will stop to update you in one week or 2 about this situation the people will keep dying for Covid-19 until there is a Vaccine or a Therapy (a cheap one that most of the people can afford) or until there will be so many persons infected to have a believable herd immunity...
Truth is most people were downplaying the problem because Chinese communist party wasn’t being truthful. The Chinese who did try to sound warning alarms were muzzled or were disappeared.
How sad is it when someone has to check up and see who has
up or down voted their post and comments.
All of that was known in January. The R value of the virus was known, the case fatality rate was known, and the fact that China couldn't contain it despite taking extreme measures. Most people were downplaying the problem because Trump (and Fox News) did not listen to epidemiologists who were nearly unanimous in the threat this posed and he was downplaying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota87
Everyone knows China was not transparent about what was going on in late December. By January everyone including the public had access to information about the virus as they published its genome sequence. We had our first case in this country in January. We had one of the lowest rates of testing per capita of any industrialized country throughout February when community spread was taking place.
As for travel bans which someone mentioned. A travel ban might delay the amount of time it takes to deal with your first case, though the virus spreads to countries that you haven't banned travel with who can then enter your country. The fact is we have 532,000 cases in the U.S. and counting and they didn't all come from foreigners (I'd wager more than 99% didn't). It was community spread once we had our first case and we did nothing to mitigate it.
African1 and drongo are definitely dumbing up this thread. You haven't downvoted my posts yet but you can go ahead and do that. Why make light of there being fires in someone's country?
What is it with Trump supporters and figuring things out long after it's useful? People can see who votes on their posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
I am going to respond in two parts, because like a woman 👩, you put a lot of innuendos in your sentences. Anyway, he is part 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
I don't need to figure out things about how this forum works. I am rarely here. My visits usually follow a cyclical trend. I guess the Corona Virus brought me back. So unlike you my friend, I am not glued to HA jizzing 24/7. So there are things I don't know and don't need to know about the mechanics of VBoards. Because I don't care.
Now more importantly, I am not insecure like you. I can care less if every members downvoted every message I write. I don't need to go to my settings like a Teenage Girl and see who rated me. It's probably important to you and that's OK. I will stop rating your posts because I don't need a human life on my conscience
Wow. So three paragraphs to explain why you didn't figure out what everyone else did about three years ago. Also, you seem to have me confused with filghy because you didn't rate any of my posts. Can't wait for part 2. Riveting stuff;Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
Now here is part 2:Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
Who told you I am a Trump Supporter? I just wrote two days ago that I sit in the Middle. I actually voted for Hillary in 2016. I also supported her in 2008. I am glad I was wrong in both instances because I can only imagine her handling of China and the Travel ban imposed on February 6th. And also as Obama turned up to be a good president with few shortcomings nonetheless. You can even read my posts from 2012 where I used to debate Republicans here and defend Obama because I felt most the criticism labeled against him was in essence, in its deep core racial. But let's be honest, the US is doing just fine. People are going to die from this. Anyone who believes Chinese death figures, well they are not very smart.
The fact is: China Lied and People Died. I put this squarely on China who decided to send 5 MILLION AMBASSADORS OF DEATH around the world. Trump did the unthinkable and shut down all travel from China. He was attacked by the NYTimes, CNN, MSNBC and every major media outlet out there. I will post clips in a later post to remind everyone. Sleepy Joe Biden called his actions Xenophobic. Now the media, like China is trying to rewrite History. At least watch some of the videos I posted. Only one or two are from SkyNews Australia. And all videos are backed by evidence. Now the Travel Ban could not have been imposed had Trump not won the Supreme Court Case in his Travel ban on Syria, Yemen, Lybia, Iran, Somalia and Sudan. It made it easy to implement new travel bans. Maybe a blessing in disguise.
Now the only problem, we should have shut down travel from Europe too. But because of Chinese lies, no one knew the extent of the danger until Italy (a democratic and open country) started reporting the correct figures. China acted like the virus can be controlled. But Italy told us the truth and then the World woke up. By then, it was too late.
Didn't the WHO and China kept saying there is no human to human contagion way until the end of January?!!!! And even when we closed Chinese fights to the US, WHO criticized the decision!!! How do you answer to that? And please don't mention FoxNews again, because (1) I don't work for them, and (2) I couldn't care less about them.
We have 560,000 cases in this country. Travel bans are helpful, but when the virus was already out of China, a travel ban without testing is useless. This is especially true when we already had cases in the U.S. in January. Every other country had to deal with a lack of transparency from China and some did it well and others did it poorly. The guy who compared Covid-19 to the flu in March did it poorly.
Countries that put into place social distancing restrictions as soon as they had community spread have fewer deaths per capita than we do. This includes Canada, Australia, and Norway. But there are many others if you'd like to take a look. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Trump would not have needed the previous Supreme Court case to be able to shut down travel from a country during an epidemic. The previous case was only contested because Giuliani and others made it clear that the motive for their ban was based on the Muslim population of the selected countries. Additionally, you mentioned the first amendment in a previous post which you also don't understand. You don't have a first amendment right to post on a private forum because the entire bill of rights only proscribes government conduct.
I actually think you're a Trump supporter or you wouldn't possibly be able to think he did a competent job. In late January the characteristics of the virus were known, including how transmissible it is, the case fatality rate, and even the genome sequence. It was not only sequenced in China, but French scientists sequenced it before the month of January ended.
We also have reports of hospital workers who had to wear trash bags to work and re-sterilize masks for weeks on end. The President has a tool called the Defense Production Act which allows him to have any manufacturer make these things. He preferred to let front-line health care workers not have equipment than to invoke it. But yeah sure, being the leader of the richest country in the world and endangering health care workers by not providing them the right equipment is a sign of competence.
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status...44477547753473
Here is a graph showing the curves of other countries. As a helpful hint, a flatter curve is a good sign.
He wrote this on March 12 and is exactly right. A ban can help but it's not sufficient. How does a travel ban stop the spread of a virus that is already in your country? We already had community spread at this point. We now have more cases than any other country.Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
Holy shit. A New York Times tourism reporter wrote something on February 5th, which definitely means it's not the President's fault that our country, the wealthiest in the world, had among the lowest test rates per capita in the industralized world while a pandemic was sweeping our country. Great work.Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
There you go again with the lowest test rates per capita. This is claim is a strange and crazy as Trump trying to seal off the Southern Border with a wall and using the example of Israel border with Egypt as an example. Yea a border that is 150 miles long and still cannot be 100% secured.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
I swear some people must brain-dead when regurgitating the news. America is a vast country. You cannot compare it to S. Korea where 60% of the population live in the Capital Seoul, or Germany, a country the size of New Mexico. We are at 3 million tests, More than any country by far. S.Korea has 500k, yet the media is not satisfied. Besides why do you need to test a bunch of rednecks scattered around the countryside when they only meet once or twice a year during a holiday. NYC and the big metropolitan areas testing is going well.
This is why I am starting to see the bias in the left. An establishment I belonged to for so long.
Why no comments on this? or it it too much to handle?Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
And the NYT opinion page reflects the view of the editorial board. I just don't have time to sip through more articles but they were behind as well.
You not being on the left is not a loss to anyone . If you want to control community spread you have to have a high percentage of tests in every area there is an outbreak. We have outbreaks now in every region of the country. South Korea tested people when they were actually able to perform contact tracing. We now are doing better per capita than we were but it matters when you test. If you wait for a disease to get out of control and then test, it is a lot less useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
I read about 40% of people who take a test in New York test positive. This is a sign that even now testing is not very good. Your President is going to be judged by how well he controlled outbreaks, not by what Sean Hannity and you have to say.
The reason I didn't mention your wall of articles is that it looks like you copied it from someone else and I'm not able to see them or the dates. President Trump comparing covid-19 to the flu in March isn't made better by other people doing it in February. Your argument is that it's okay if he's incompetent as long as some other people were.
Further, you didn't respond to a single part of my argument on the last page. How does a travel ban help when you already have thousands of undetected cases in your country? How does it help when you have more cases than the countries whose people you're banning?
I gotta say this made me laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
I don't understand this thing about calling it: "Your President". I understand if the other guy said it since he is Australian or I don't know where the hell he is from, but you my man. You are an American. Whether you like it or not, HE IS YOUR PRESIDENT TOO. So please don't be silly!Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
What a convenient way to run away from a topic! I need to remember to use this in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
It does help because it stops new cases from adding up to the load. It stops from having to trace new infections or having new pockets of infection spur up. This is the same thing as isolating patients. A patient can deal with his own virus load, but if they have other patients next to them, breading on them, giving them more virus loads, then their immune system may succumb. This is why HIV-positive patients are discouraged from having sex with other HIV-positive partners without protection. Your system does not need new loads to deal with, the same way the US does not need new infections from other countries now. Better seal off you territory andQuote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
We have yet another self-proclaimed independent who won't say a bad word about Trump, is only interested in creating smokescreens and refuses to engage in any meaningful discussion. This is Mr Fanti all over again. At least Mr Fanti didn't stoop to juvenile insults. And the aptly-named drongo seems like peejaye all over again - he's been busy down-voting my posts for months now because I called him out for calling people 'faggot'.
He's the President but I didn't vote for him and frankly I don't believe you when you say you didn't. That was my way of saying you're a partisan where my only interest is in seeing him do a competent and professional job. If he did that I'd give him credit.
He doesn't even seem to know that viruses are treated with anti-virals rather than antibiotics. He told people at one point he thought a vaccine would be available to the public in a few months. I watch him and look for hope that he can handle this crisis and instead I've heard him spout some of the dumbest shit ever.
In your second quote box you seemed to erase the part where I explained that other people being wrong doesn't absolve the leader of this country when he is. I prefer not to have a pre-packaged list of headlines without the articles themselves or even visible dates that's intended to make a point you won't even articulate. That is what propaganda often looks like.
Your third paragraph doesn't make much sense. Sure, shut down travel but the point is that it's not sufficient. It's not even the most important factor, especially when your country has the most cases in the world. As for tracing new infections, we didn't do much of that. Have you looked at a map of our infections lately? I wanted him to do an effective job. At this point, what is the point of mentioning the travel ban? He didn't do a good job of controlling the virus that got into our country pretty damn early.
Didn't I just criticize Trump wall and how crazy that is?!!!! This tells me you are not a serious debater as either you don't read people's responses before you start defecating yours, or you suffer from ADHD and hence cannot focus nor comprehend stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
Trump's approach to covid-19 has been to erect barriers not to people but to a virus carried by people who were already in this country in January. It is the most harebrained part of what you're defending. A virus that spreads at an exponential rate was in this country spreading exponentially in January and you and orange fuckface are talking about how banning Chinese travel and calling the virus the Chinese virus was the no nonsense approach we needed. Maybe we needed to do something about the virus spreading within our own borders. Yay? Nay? What do you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
Let me ask you: we have 560,000 cases in this country. What percent do you think is from community transmission and what percent from people coming in on airplanes and boats?
Wow, I can't believe how hard it is for you to say MY President. I din't vote for him, yet I can say it. As I can easily say Bush was MY President, and Clinton before him was MY president. Now you can believe whatever you want. I am and was honest in my answers. If I am lying in a forum where no one even knows my real ID, then I am lying to myself and I lack respect for myself. Which let me assure you: is very fucking far from reality. I wouldn't spend all this time debating you if I didn't (1) enjoy it, and (2) I thought it was worthy. So why lie?Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
Anyway, let us not forget he is a Businessman and not a Biology major. I think Trump always tries to emulate Reagan, and Reagan was no genius. Yet the country fared well under his Presidency. What this country truly needs in a leader who is a cheerleader for it. This country can run on autopilot as witnessed many times in the past when we had gridlock between Congress and the White House. It was built to run on auto-pilot by few genius men and we are thankful to them. This Covid-19 storm shall pass. So don't worry. 😉
Logarithmic..The Function is a Log(x).Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
Why are you so keen to embarrass yourself? A logarithm is the inverse to an exponential. A graph in logarithms is just a way to present something that grows exponentially. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LogarithmQuote:
Originally Posted by african1
I'll respond to this in the morning. I don't think we only need a cheerleader. Though if we only did need a cheerleader and we could run on autopilot during a crisis Trump might have been the right guy. But alas, it matters who he appoints, who he takes advice from, the things he tells the public, and the decisions he makes.Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
A few points-Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
1) The US did not ban flights from China, it imposed travel restrictions, which is how 40,000 Americans were able to return Stateside from China -were any of them infected?
2) The first case of the Coronavirus outside China was reported in Thailand on the 13th of January and the human-to-human form of the infection was confirmed by the WHO on the 20th of January, the same day that the first case was reported in South Korea, and in the USA, in the State of Washington. This led the President to state of the viral infection- "We have it totally under control. Its one person coming in from China".
If you take January 20th as a key date, consider the difference in the responses of the Governments of South Korea and the USA (with the UK just as sloppy as the US)
Within a week of its first confirmed case, South Korea’s disease control agency had summoned 20 private companies to the medical equivalent of a war-planning summit and told them to develop a test for the virus at lightning speed. A week after that, the first diagnostic test was approved and went into battle, identifying infected individuals who could then be quarantined to halt the advance of the disease.
A week after that, the Wall Street Journal published an opinion article by two former top health policy officials within the Trump administration under the headline Act Now to Prevent an American Epidemic. Luciana Borio and Scott Gottlieb laid out a menu of what had to be done instantly to avert a massive health disaster.
Top of their to-do list: work with private industry to develop an “easy-to-use, rapid diagnostic test” – in other words, just what South Korea was doing.
It was not until 29 February, more than a month after the Journal article and almost six weeks after the first case of coronavirus was confirmed in the country that the Trump administration put that advice into practice. Laboratories and hospitals would finally be allowed to conduct their own Covid-19 tests to speed up the process.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ealth-disaster
see also
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ti...d19-responses/
The point here is that whatever the newspapers were reporting, or Fox News broadcasting, or Joe Biden saying, only one man is President at one time when decisions -real decisions- must be made.
On balance, it is clear: the President failed to grasp the importance of this viral infection, and as a resut the US lost control of the political agenda and more crucially, the public health agenda, aggravated by the fact the US does not have an integrated public health service such as exists in Europe.
3) Epidemics and Pandemics appear to have a timeline, but that is only with regard to recorded cases. Even now there is no absolute proof that the infection began in the Wet Market in Wuhan, though I am not sure if there is any proof either that a 'leak' from a laboratory in Wuhan is the source. There are now claims there may have been cases in the Wuhan area earlier in November which at the time were thought to be a bad case of 'flu. The origins are thus as obscure now as they were for years with regard to HIV/AIDS, even today there is a dispute as to the nature of HIV and some scientists dispute it eve exists.
I do not state this to diminish the role played by the Wet Market or the consumption of the meat of obscure or endangered species, this happens in China and also happens in Africa. It may be that a Coronavirus of this type has existed for some time but has been dormant, or it may have merged with another viral infection, such as 'flu to become what is now known as Covid 19. What this has done is expose the dangers to humans of eating species that are not normally part of the human diet, it is not as if most Chinese eat bamboo rat or dog, and there are moves to end the farming of bamboo rats in particular- (warning, photos in this link)
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...a-wildlife-ban
4) The WHO appears slow to respond because a) it did not know at first what the illness was, b) it worked on the basis it could be contained in China, and c) the WHO cannot simply declare the existence of a Pandemic until there are cases in more than one country that do constitute a pandemi.
5) I take issue with this claim: "China who decided to send 5 MILLION AMBASSADORS OF DEATH around the world".
-China does not and will not benefit economically from a Pandemic that stops production at home and trade abroad. It does not benefit politically from a deliberate strategy of infection that is equivalent to a declaration of war; and it does not benefit socially owing to the restrictions this places on the movement and contacts of its own population.
-China when it lies, does so to protect the Party, Chernobyl is the model here. The ony excuse they have is that neither they nor the WHO knew in December just how virulent this illness is, and how easily and quickly it can be spread.
Indeed, it is because viral infections cannot be controlled in their early stages that biological warfare has been so rare, other than the use of chemical weapons in limited areas in the form of bombs which have chemical reactions but not viral infections. Every case of a viral infection that has spread from one source to become first an epidemic and then a pandemic, be it the Plagues that wracked Europe between the 13th-19th century, the Typhoid epidemic in the US in the 20th century along with the Global Influenza Pandemic that erupted in 1918, every one begins in obscurity, and because of this, carriers who have not been identified as carriers are free to spread the illness, which is how Covid 19 has spread across the world.
Testing and control in advance of a vaccine have been crucial to the different outcomes in, say, South Korea and the US.
What this viral infection has exposed is the different ways in which Goverments have acted, and as I suggested before, there was a time when key actors did not want to believe this was serious enough to merit the policies that have since been imposed. It is the classic case of the boy shouting 'Fire!' in the cinema, and nobody taking any notice, because they don't see fames, and don't smell smoke.
And now we are burning, and the smoke is in our lungs, and our loved ones are dead.
You may not have heard, but Australia is also a vast country. We've tested 1.4% of the population compared to less than 0.9% in the USA. https://virusncov.com/ We have had strict restrictions across the whole country for 3 weeks now and we have only 2 deaths per 1 million population compared to 67 deaths per million in the USA.Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
Canada, another vast country right next door to you, has tested 1.1% of the population and has 19 deaths per million population. Doesn't that suggest to you that something's gone wrong in your country?
Incidentally, only 20% of South Korea's population lives in Seoul. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul Maths is clearly not your strong point.
At a time when millions of people are having to be on their best behaviour it’s appalling to see one or two on this thread behaving in the worst possible manner. They’ve been banned.
This illustrates the problem very well. I also want to point out that while big cities are the hardest hit, every state has an outbreak and it's maybe even more critical to get adequate testing to states in the early stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
When a state has a few dozen cases, local health officials can find asymptomatic cases and mild cases by contact tracing and have those people isolate. We have an outbreak in every state, in most counties in every state, and testing bottlenecks everywhere. Even the .9% figure is misleading because we are allocating a lot of tests to places that already have very bad outbreaks.
What he was suggesting is that local health authorities not have the testing to control their outbreaks until it's a big problem. That is why even very capable governors have had difficulty acting quickly enough. You cannot control something you don't know the severity of. As I said, we were at least two weeks too late everywhere.
Nothing illustrates better what Trumpism is. Early on there were promises that he could restore us to greatness. Now we hear that all we need is a cheerleader and someone to do nothing in office. So what if people die who would not have died? So what if other countries did a much better job of handling this? So what if he doesn't know the most basic things he's talking about and is saying things that make health officials' jobs harder. The important thing is that he boasts afterwards and is a cheerleader for himself and the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by african1
It always starts with promises he'll do a great job and ends with a shoulder shrugging exclamation "well who cares if he didn't".
But previously the shrugging was accompanied with, "Just look at your 401(k)!" Not hearing much of that now.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
Completely agree. And taking no responsiblity for his poor handling of the crisis and blaming everyone else when things go wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
Yep, was just about to post this...Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightHawk 2.0
Attachment 1243764
"like a woman" - a little sexism there too.
I don't normally step into these threads but I took once look at the top of this page with Stavros responding to someone who is so factually incorrect (and probably here to just sow discontent) that I was about to ban them. Thanks for taking care of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rodinuk