Anyone else find this F*ed Up

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Originally Posted by Coroner

Look, Bella, I´m familiar with your conflict with Seanchai, so I can assume where your arguments are partially coming from.

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I figured you'd say that, but your comment ignores the fact that if I wanted to make this about my issue with Steven, I wouldn't be this judicious about it. I would sensationalize the situation to serve my own needs. I don't see me doing that here, do you?

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Originally Posted by Coroner

I have no reason to defend Seanchai but you´re contradicting yourself by putting something in my mouth that I never wrote.

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Actually, I asked you if you felt that transsexuals were merely sex objects. I never accused you of saying it yourself. For someone who complains about someone else's lack of articulation, you seem to be understanding very little of what you're reading.

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Originally Posted by Coroner

It´s arguable whether the nature of those pics is wrong or putting their boy names online but the thread author did it in a completely dilletant and immature way.

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Really? I thought she just made an observation and was fairly reserved in her personal judgments considering a lot of things that are written around here. :wiggle:

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Originally Posted by Coroner

This is a porn forum and these girls worked in porn. This is how I remember them without disrespecting their human values, although I never had the opportunity to meet them.

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Again, what we do is just a job. I obviously can't speak for the dead, but having been in porn or not, I personally doubt they would have wanted to be remembered that way exclusively, but as a whole person.

~BB~

woow.some of these stories/comments were obviously cut and paste jobs from local newspaper articles.others though seem to be little more than gossip and hear say.
its more than unfortunate that the only way we can honor/remember these girls is through nudity.im sure alot of these girls were more than just porn and escorting.
i now understand the concern my uncle had with me doing such photo shoots.once you done them you have no control over the pictures or how they are used.

1. There are NO NUDES of any of the dead girls on this site of any of the deceased. The most you can see is a nipple. So whoever is sensationalising this and to what ends, they're wrong.

2. The only time a real name is published is when it's a direct copy and paste from a newspaper - as this same information is often posted on site's like this, then I don't see why anyone has an issue. Also by showing the actual report it helps the veracity of the report and how the media reports on these deaths.

3. The website is : Fallen Angels and Lost Devils - The Website to Honour and Inform About Performers and Producers in the Adult Transgender Industry Who Have Died.

This site does just what it states. With no other source to do this, this site serves as a memorium to those performers and producers, many of whom have been friends of mine personally.

The photos chosen are ones that we own that I feel represented the model well as a performer in the industry as well as being a good portrait of them.


The saddest thing is that many of the girls on that site didn't deserve what happened to them as much as some other people I could mention. How long before someone from a forum like this, just pushes someone else a little too far and ends up on it?

The fact, that I'm going to have to write another one today.

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Originally Posted by seanchai

1. There are NO NUDES of any of the dead girls on this site of any of the deceased. The most you can see is a nipple. So whoever is sensationalising this and to what ends, they're wrong.

2. The only time a real name is published is when it's a direct copy and paste from a newspaper - as this same information is often posted on site's like this, then I don't see why anyone has an issue. Also by showing the actual report it helps the veracity of the report and how the media reports on these deaths.

3. The website is : Fallen Angels and Lost Devils - The Website to Honour and Inform About Performers and Producers in the Adult Transgender Industry Who Have Died.

This site does just what it states. With no other source to do this, this site serves as a memorium to those performers and producers, many of whom have been friends of mine personally.

The photos chosen are ones that we own that I feel represented the model well as a performer in the industry as well as being a good portrait of them.


The saddest thing is that many of the girls on that site didn't deserve what happened to them as much as some other people I could mention. How long before someone from a forum like this, just pushes someone else a little too far and ends up on it?

The fact, that I'm going to have to write another one today.

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Steven is correct - media and news outlets always disgrace a transsexual. They refer to them by the male pro-noun and always out their birth given name. Even if legally changed. I have seen many girls who had their names legally changed who were either murdered, raped, abused, or died by natural causes or car crash. They always seem to find their male names and use the pro-noun they were born. Most make the excuse, because not everyone will know them by their new "CHOSEN" identity.

I actually interviewed a media reporter in Florida, when I was the secretary of St. Pete PRIDE. That was one reason they gave. Another few reason she gave is their viewers have the right to know, and lastly it's respectful to the person's family. She left it at that, and wouldn't budge on her judgement. Even if it's highly disrespectful to the person who passed.

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Originally Posted by seanchai

The photos chosen are ones that we own that I feel represented the model well as a performer in the industry as well as being a good portrait of them.

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I think our point here is that the latter is far more important than the former. Saying 'a porn-star died' is like saying 'a plumber died' or 'a hairdresser died,' except that plumbing and hairdressing doesn't carry a stigma as adult modeling does. In either case, it reduces a person to a one-dimensional figure. Sure, some girls may like to be remembered accordingly in part, but I still suspect that most did porn so that they could live their lives, not be remembered as not much more than a naked (or even half-naked) model (or worse) after they die.

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Originally Posted by seanchai

How long before someone from a forum like this, just pushes someone else a little too far and ends up on it?

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Typical, tasteless, blame-the-victim mentality. What are you trying to say here? That it's OK to kill someone if they push your buttons? You're a sick man, Steven. :fu:

You really should just keep quiet around here. Don't you have your own forum that you surreptitiously converted into an altar for your brand? Do you really need two? :geek:

~BB~

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Originally Posted by BellaBellucci

I think our point here is that the latter is far more important than the former. Saying 'a porn-star died' is like saying 'a plumber died' or 'a hairdresser died,' except that plumbing and hairdressing doesn't carry a stigma as adult modeling does. In either case, it reduces a person to a one-dimensional figure. Sure, some girls may like to be remembered accordingly in part, but I still suspect that most did porn so that they could live their lives, not be remembered as not much more than a naked (or even half-naked) model (or worse) after they die.

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You are an arse.
If "Plumber's Weekly" or "Hairdresser's Express" ran those features, then it doesn't make them one dimensional. It's clear what this site states.

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Originally Posted by BellaBellucci

Typical, tasteless, blame-the-victim mentality. What are you trying to say here? That it's OK to kill someone if they push your buttons? You're a sick man, Steven. :fu:

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No I'm not saying it's ok. I'm saying there are some people who may be unhinged enough to take attacks off-board. It's got nothing to do with pushing MY buttons.

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Originally Posted by BellaBellucci

You really should just keep quiet around here. Don't you have your own forum that you surreptitiously converted into an altar for your brand? Do you really need two? :geek:

~BB~

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As do you Bella, yet you also pollute elsewhere with your stink and ire.

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Originally Posted by seanchai

You are an arse.
If "Plumber's Weekly" or "Hairdresser's Express" ran those features, then it doesn't make them one dimensional. It's clear what this site states.

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If a story in 'Plumber's Weekly' concentrates solely on a deceased person's ability to plunge, for instance, then yes it does make them one-dimensional. OK, I'll admit that the photos aren't completely tasteless, but they are questionable at the very least, and if you really want to honor the memories of the girls who have passed, you should tone them down a bit and combine them with a few personal words about the girls in question. Spend a few minutes to locate and talk to people who knew them and add their personal touches, then your site won't seem so exploitative and one-sided. I actually don't even really think it was your intention to exploit anyone with the site, but you have to admit, it's a very sloppy memoriam that really focuses solely on the work aspect of these girls' personalities. Remember, those who were killed or committed suicide (read: a disproportionately large number) weren't victims of porn, they were victims of transsexuality. That fact should feature more prominently on the site.

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Originally Posted by seanchai

No I'm not saying it's ok. I'm saying there are some people who may be unhinged enough to take attacks off-board. It's got nothing to do with pushing MY buttons.

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Yeah, well, just keep in mind that tact isn't exactly your strong suit. Sometimes the things you say can easily be taken as threats, and your statement just a minute ago certainly qualified.

~BB~

uh oh.....

What is truly fucked up - is the many cases where nothing is done or reported. There are plenty of transsexual deaths where the attacker was let off easy or unexplained. They barely do an investigation.

Truth be told most transsexuals are killed by their lovers.