DADT Temporarily upheld by appeals court

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Originally Posted by BellaBellucci

Obama is a puppet of the military-industrial complex, just like his predecessors. Never forget that hope and change always get swallowed up whole by reality and bureaucracy. That said, Obama could end this with a mere stroke of a pen and by the same way it began - executive order. Congress shouldn't go anywhere NEAR this issue and what's worse is that Obama's passing the buck and it should stop with him. He's Commander in Chief.

But from a political standpoint, the Dems, fearing a lost cause next month, may be setting up their wedge issues for 2012. Smart politics. Terrible governing.

~BB~

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What she said. + Obama really just pays lip service to LGBT issues. He could care less.

If he really wanted to do something about that he would simply issue an executive order telling the millitary not to enforce DADT. Truman did it and in so doing was able to integrate the millitary at a stroke. Congressional action came latter. That's what a leader does.

I voted for a black Truman and instead we got someone who acts like a legislator and does not want to make the tough decisions himself. With Obama the buck stops somewhere else.

No one has a right to be in the military. That said, I served with several soldiers who i knew were gay. We stayed in the closet. Well somewhat. Because we were good troops, did our jobs, and didn't openly advertize. No one outed anyone. Some not so upstanding troops did get outed. But there were also straight guys that got run out anyway possible. If you weren't a stand up person you had to be delt with.

We need to allow anyone qualified to be in the military serve in the military. We all want to serve and defend our way of life. I would do it all over again. The way I did it, or out in the open. I would prefer to see it a non issue.

As far as the current President goes. He could just sign the order and end it. But being he is not a leader he won't. I don't know who is pulling his strings, but someone is.

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Originally Posted by SarahG

Women are only allowed to serve in LIMITED CAPACITIES. They're not treated the same as men. They are not eligible for draft, they are not allowed into front line combat positions. They are treated as second-rate soldiers in our military. Period. They have never in the history of our military been treated the same as men. Not today, and not tomorrow.

Gays on the other hand... as long as they help perpetuate the denial they can serve and are treated the same as their peers. A gay woman is treated like a straight woman. A gay guy is treated like a straight guy. Until that is, they come out of the closet, demand their spouses be treated the same, or have someone with an axe to grind hostilely out them to their SO's. Or something like that.

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Sarah, I just need to correct one statement you made, underlined in bold print above. Although I can't speak for the Army, the USMC does have women on the front lines. I speak from parental experience, in that my daughter is a Marine that served in both Iraq and Afghanistan, having just returned.

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Originally Posted by CORVETTEDUDE

Sarah, I just need to correct one statement you made, underlined in bold print above. Although I can't speak for the Army, the USMC does have women on the front lines. I speak from parental experience, in that my daughter is a Marine that served in both Iraq and Afghanistan, having just returned.

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It's sort of been a shadow integration, women are being placed in units on patrol due to cultural issues that have come to light over the years in the middle east theaters. The military finds that to have a woman present to handle female civilians on house raids, patrols, and such tends to deescalate potential problems. If a man is arrested or questioned in abeligerent manner on front of the female members of his family it can be a taken as a personal insult to his pride and cause negative repercussions. In many cases, having a female service member present to escort the female civilians to a diffrent room in the house eases tension and male posturing that has led many indigenous males to be faslely arrested for what is missinturpreted as being uncooperative or what not. I have no problem with females in front line units, as long as they can pull their own weight.

On a diffrent note, I am a soldier in the Oklajoma Army National Guard. Oklahoma is an interesting state when it comes to gay rights. I live in Tulsa which ,at the time of the last census, has the highest percapita gay population in America. At the same time though, we only have two major cities and only a few moderatly sized towns where gay populations can live in relative peace. Ther are a LOT of redneck country folk in the guard! Even before I got into any of this people would haras me, calling me gay or whatever because they saw all "city folk" as potential gays. My favorites were being called gay for having and using a large vocabulary and buying custom fitted suits! Most "gay" men in the military aren't openly recognizable as gay, there are few flamers, drama "queens", or what ever other classifications you want to give, there is a large number that don't even consider themselves gay. I'm a member of that group myself, I recognize that I do gay things from time to time but by and large most of who I am is a masculine guy. It just so happens that women tend to not like me so much and that I just happens to be more successful with the side of the species that has a penis.

My point in a round about way of putting it is that no matter what people on this board say, and I know it's a big point of contintion, as the line from some movie puts it, "You can wash a hundred windows a day but sucking one cock makes you a cock sucker, not a window washer, for life.". The rest of the world, especially the military doesn't have "rules" as to what is or isn't gay. If it involves two people with penises and they are engaging in something intimate, then it's gay. So I'd just like to put it out there that, as a soldier that would be perceived as a gay man in the closet by anyone that knew. It was nice that for a week, my life couldn't be ruined just because at the end of the day the person I love that lies next to me and keeps me warm just happens to have been born a man.

Can someone please enlighten me back in the drafts days if you were drafted and you said that you were gay would you not be allowed to join the military or what? That is something i'm very curious about.

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Originally Posted by Silcc69

Can someone please enlighten me back in the drafts days if you were drafted and you said that you were gay would you not be allowed to join the military or what? That is something i'm very curious about.

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http://www.kcatlett.net/alda/images/Klinger8.jpg

~BB~

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Originally Posted by BellaBellucci

http://www.kcatlett.net/alda/images/Klinger8.jpg

~BB~

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Lol, he was just trying to get a section 8 for being crazy! Why else would he wear womens clothing?.... Lol. Un the final episode he even got married to a nice Korean woman.

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Originally Posted by gieric

Lol, he was just trying to get a section 8 for being crazy! Why else would he wear womens clothing?.... Lol. Un the final episode he even got married to a nice Korean woman.

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Well, yeah, but that's sort of my point. They didn't let him out!

Yeah, I know, he wasn't gay, but it's still funny IMHO. Fucking Klinger! :lol:

~BB~

Anyone who has served in the military knows exactly what demographic our young men and women are pooled from. Most are from small towns that are conservative in nature. The problem is the maturity level in which those young men and women posses. At that young age, and coming from that background, few are able to deal with having a gay Mariner, Soldier, Sailor, or Airmen serve with them in a mature manner. Personally, I think gays should have the right to serve openly in the Armed Forces. I think Americans make to big of an issue out of labels and sexuality. Yes, I am an American and yes, I served in the Armed Forces....for ten years.