The Kinda Girl You Bring Home to Mom...

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Originally Posted by ONEWORLD

IF THE FIRST ACCOUNTS OF GAY WEDDINGS WERE PICTURES OF GURLS LIKE VANITY AND DANIELLE GETTING MARRIED TO STRAIGHT DUDES; THERE WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN AN UPROAR OR BACKLASH…

THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NOTHING BUT SYMPATHY AND PHONECALLS ON “HOW CAN I GET ME ONE”? LOL.

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That is very very true. Problem is, that would "out" some girls, and it would take pioneers. It soudns easy on screen, but damn, i know some passable girls that are living as GGs and they would definately NOT want to be "outed". But I know some who can care less and would be willing to do something like that.

I just picked up the local ATL adult free magazine today [XCitement] and they had an article on the AVN awards. They had photos of all these adult performers, one being Vanity. Not in the writeup, picture or anything did they mention she was a TS. I think that if the issue is raised in a sensible way through different outlets, then it may increase public acceptance. See, there are TONS of people who like TSs.

Want an indicator? Im not that old, but Ive been using computers for the past 14 years, solidly. I remember the BBSs that had 20,000 of XXX pictures, and 10 of those were TS porn. Usually the TS stuff had MORE if not the same amoutn of downloads as everything else. Was the market not there? I doutn that it was simply supply. Go to your local adult video store and look at the videos at the video booth. We all know that usually the Gay videos dominate the shelves, but lately Ive noticed the TS movies have as many TS videos playing as the gay and straight movies. Hmmm... What about the TS movies moving from Fetish to its own Transexual section? HOw many TSs are in your average free adult newspaper?

See, the admirers are there. Its just the ones that are willing to "Come out the closet". But thats is understandibly hard for some when you have shows that do things distrastefully like Jerry Springer. But if we had more shows like Maury who arent making the girls look like freaks, then maybe thats a small step. Naw, Maury can do better. He does all these shows on obese kids, people with disabilities, wives being treated wrong, but never anything showing sympathy for someone gay or transgendered; at least that I can recall off the top of my head. See, its too taboo.

We have all types of movies like Ace Ventura and Billy Madison with small jokes on TSs. How about we get a film with a "manly man" like hmm... George Clooney or Brad Pitt acting with a JLO or Eva Mendez and then we find out that the female role is really a TS? To my knowledge we have no TS actors, but how about a movie where being a TS/Gay isnt the main focus? Or people are crossdressing to get into a sorority or hide from someone, whatever the case? Hell, with all the actors that I know for FACT are serious tranny chasers on the low, Im sure someone would take the role.

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Originally Posted by LBCDO

We have all types of movies like Ace Ventura and Billy Madison with small jokes on TSs. How about we get a film with a "manly man" like hmm... George Clooney or Brad Pitt acting with a JLO or Eva Mendez and then we find out that the female role is really a TS? To my knowledge we have no TS actors, but how about a movie where being a TS/Gay isnt the main focus? Or people are crossdressing to get into a sorority or hide from someone, whatever the case? Hell, with all the actors that I know for FACT are serious tranny chasers on the low, Im sure someone would take the role.

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There is one that I recall, I don't remember the movie name, but it was a James Bond one, quite old. Roberta Close, someone whom I look up to starred in that, she was unknown and no one thought anything of her, until a British newspaper outed her, and that spoiled her movie career.

Theres loads of things on her if you do a search on google.

[quote="ONEWORLD"]

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Originally Posted by LG

IF THE FIRST ACCOUNTS OF GAY WEDDINGS WERE PICTURES OF GURLS LIKE VANITY AND DANIELLE GETTING MARRIED TO STRAIGHT DUDES; THERE WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN AN UPROAR OR BACKLASH…

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Well then it wouldn't be gay. Unless they were marrying each other. A man marrying a man, or a woman marrying a woman is gay. So a TS marrying a TS would be gay.

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Originally Posted by LBCDO

We have all types of movies like Ace Ventura and Billy Madison with small jokes on TSs. How about we get a film with a "manly man" like hmm... George Clooney or Brad Pitt acting with a JLO or Eva Mendez and then we find out that the female role is really a TS? To my knowledge we have no TS actors, but how about a movie where being a TS/Gay isnt the main focus? Or people are crossdressing to get into a sorority or hide from someone, whatever the case? Hell, with all the actors that I know for FACT are serious tranny chasers on the low, Im sure someone would take the role.

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Better yet have the TS played by a real TS.

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Originally Posted by Chica

There is one that I recall, I don't remember the movie name, but it was a James Bond one, quite old. Roberta Close, someone whom I look up to starred in that, she was unknown and no one thought anything of her, until a British newspaper outed her, and that spoiled her movie career.

Theres loads of things on her if you do a search on google.

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Chica, I think the film you're thinking of is the 1981 production For Your Eyes Only, the 12th Bond film and 5th for Roger Moore, and the transsexual involved was not Roberta Close but Tula (stage name for Caroline Cossey, who began life in 1954 as Barry Cossey and had her SRS in 1974). Tula worked as a model and actress from 1979 to 1986, but her acting career was severely disrupted when the News of the World outed her as a transsexual following the release of the movie. Apparently no one in the movie production knew that she had once been he, and it caused quite a stir and led to the urban legend, still in active e-mail circulation, that one of the "Bond girls" with whom Moore had a "steamy love scene" was a transsexual. In fact, her role was very small, as one of 10 pool girls who are shown in one scene with Moore; he never interacted with her in the movie. Playboy, once the story was out, included Tula prominently as a "Bond girl" in one issue (feeding the urban legend) and later, in one of it's most daring, controversial, and highly criticized pictorials, featured Tula au naturale by herself (many subscribers, who were turned on by her beauty, where subsequently disgusted when they found out she was a transsexual--of course, we all know that says far more about their own fears, repressions and conflictions than it does about her).

Caroline attempted to marry the Italian Count Glauco in 1983, but the marriage was blocked by legal complications (under English law she was still considered male). She was married in 1989 to Elias Fattal in London, but Fattal quickly left her following their honeymoon, and the marriage was then annulled by the High Court (the ruling specified that the bride and groom had not been female and male). Caroline has written about her life, first in the 1982 book, Tula: I Am a Woman and then in My Story, her 1991 autobiography. Last I heard she had resumed her modelling career and finally successfully married a Canadian, David Finch.

I'll bet John Lennon never anticipated Tula when he sang "She's the kind of a girl / who makes the News of the World / yeah you could say she was attractively built"!

As far as I know, Roberta Close, another beautiful and successful transsexual who has had a strong career as a model and actress, has never appeared in a James Bond film. She was only 17 when For Your Eyes Only was filmed, and did not have her SRS until 1989. From what I've read, she was happy as a pre-op girl but decided on her SRS following pressure from photographers and agents. I don't know if it's true, but I've read that once she became a woman, she regarded menstruation as an important aspect of womanhood and started to wear tampons stained with chicken blood to simulate her monthly period. She was in fact once voted the most beautiful woman in Brazil, and counts among her lovers and admirers (at least according to her kiss-and-tell autobiography Muito Prazer, Roberta Close (Much Pleasure), published in 1998) Robert DeNiro, George Clooney, Eddie Murphy, and Francis Coppola. She married Roland Granacher, a Swiss manager, in 1993, though they separated in 2000.

[quote="Hugh Jarrod"]

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Originally Posted by ONEWORLD

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Originally Posted by LG

IF THE FIRST ACCOUNTS OF GAY WEDDINGS WERE PICTURES OF GURLS LIKE VANITY AND DANIELLE GETTING MARRIED TO STRAIGHT DUDES; THERE WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN AN UPROAR OR BACKLASH…

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Well then it wouldn't be gay. Unless they were marrying each other. A man marrying a man, or a woman marrying a woman is gay. So a TS marrying a TS would be gay.

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No. It doesn't matter what the people look like. If the straight guy and the (pre-op) TS were getting married, it would still be considered "gay". The law only cares about what genitals people have. Not what they look like, how they live in society, what their chromosones are, what their hormones levels are, etc...


The only way a guy and a TS can legally get married is if she had the full SRS (she would have to be Post-op) and had her birth certificate changed to "female" by the courts.

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Originally Posted by TrueBeauty TS

The only way a guy and a TS can legally get married is if she had the full SRS (she would have to be Post-op) and had her birth certificate changed to "female" by the courts.

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Not quite true, TrueBeauty. Here in Massachusetts same sex couples can indeed be legally married; doesn't matter if one of them is a pre-op TS and the other an otherwise straight male. Of course, the Massachusetts law caused and is continuing to stir trouble throughout these United States, and it quite possibly cost Kerry the election this past November, but it is indeed fully legal here. Many states also honor same sex marriages performed in Massachusetts (though some have not, and the heat is just starting). Yes, technically is is seen as "same sex" marriage, but that's really irrelevant since the point of the law is NOT that same sex couples can marry (which is true), but that the sexual ID of the couple is NOT relevant to whether they can marry in Massachusetts. However, all the news stories and personal anecdotes I've heard thus far have related to gay and lesbian couples; I don't know if there's been any pre-op TS/male marriages in Mass. as yet, only that it is legal for them to marry.

Other countries are even ahead of Massachusetts, including as I understand it Canada and much of Europe. I believe that in the UK now a pre-op TS can still legally change her driver's license to read "female." That hasn't happened here...yet.

Unfortunately, you are correct about the remaining 49 states. Sigh.

Hugh Jarrod wrote:

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LG wrote:

IF THE FIRST ACCOUNTS OF GAY WEDDINGS WERE PICTURES OF GURLS LIKE VANITY AND DANIELLE GETTING MARRIED TO STRAIGHT DUDES; THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AN UPROAR OR BACKLASH...

Well then it wouldn't be gay. Unless they were marrying each other. A man marrying a man, or a woman marrying a woman is gay. So a TS marrying a TS would be gay

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No, I didn't say that. And even though I don't appreciate being misquoted, I do actually kind of agree with ONEWORLD who did write it.

Let's not get into the whole "am I gay for liking transexuals?" debate again. If you're talking about preops, especially, half the world would consider you gay and legally you would be entering into a same-sex marriage even if you didn't consider yourself gay (and I don't, but I would date Danielle Foxxx or Vicky Richter in a New York minute) and would be illegal in some countries and US states.

Some postops have dated eligible bachelors (who no doubt got a lot of stick for it) and names like Roberta Close, Caroline Cossey, Bibi Anderson and Jenny Hiloudaki come to mind. But I have never heard of any male celebrity openly dating a preop (which is a shame for two reasons- firstly for them , because many of them- from the reports that filter through- actually like t-girls, and secondly for us, because if Eddie Murphy actually came out and said: "Yeah, I like shemales, got a problem?" it would make it seem more 'OK' for me to do so as well) .

I think it will be a while before transexuals themselves are in the mainstream, before their rights are fully recognized, before the porn moves out of the fetish category and the adult video store guys don't snigger when I buy a Rogue Adventures DVD- who knows; they may enjoy it if they give it a shot. It will be a while before it's 'okay' to openly date a transexual and not be considered gay or deviant (what's more, many people still consider gays as deviant). It will be a while before men can look at a woman like Harisu, Jenny Hiloudaki and especially a beautiful preop like Vaniity and say to their friends 'I'd do her!' (and still have friends the next day). The day is coming though and one day one prominent male will stand up and say "Hey, I'm dating a beautiful preop transexual" If he's brave he might even admit to being topped. And then things will change. And then the world will finally see how many of us admirers there really are...

Until then, increase the peace

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Originally Posted by LG

Hugh Jarrod wrote:

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LG wrote:

IF THE FIRST ACCOUNTS OF GAY WEDDINGS WERE PICTURES OF GURLS LIKE VANITY AND DANIELLE GETTING MARRIED TO STRAIGHT DUDES; THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AN UPROAR OR BACKLASH...

Well then it wouldn't be gay. Unless they were marrying each other. A man marrying a man, or a woman marrying a woman is gay. So a TS marrying a TS would be gay

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No, I didn't say that. And even though I don't appreciate being misquoted, I do actually kind of agree with ONEWORLD who did write it.

Let's not get into the whole "am I gay for liking transexuals?" debate again. If you're talking about preops, especially, half the world would consider you gay and legally you would be entering into a same-sex marriage even if you didn't consider yourself gay (and I don't, but I would date Danielle Foxxx or Vicky Richter in a New York minute) and would be illegal in some countries and US states.

Some postops have dated eligible bachelors (who no doubt got a lot of stick for it) and names like Roberta Close, Caroline Cossey, Bibi Anderson and Jenny Hiloudaki come to mind. But I have never heard of any male celebrity openly dating a preop (which is a shame for two reasons- firstly for them , because many of them- from the reports that filter through- actually like t-girls, and secondly for us, because if Eddie Murphy actually came out and said: "Yeah, I like shemales, got a problem?" it would make it seem more 'OK' for me to do so as well) .

I think it will be a while before transexuals themselves are in the mainstream, before their rights are fully recognized, before the porn moves out of the fetish category and the adult video store guys don't snigger when I buy a Rogue Adventures DVD- who knows; they may enjoy it if they give it a shot. It will be a while before it's 'okay' to openly date a transexual and not be considered gay or deviant (what's more, many people still consider gays as deviant). It will be a while before men can look at a woman like Harisu, Jenny Hiloudaki and especially a beautiful preop like Vaniity and say to their friends 'I'd do her!' (and still have friends the next day). The day is coming though and one day one prominent male will stand up and say "Hey, I'm dating a beautiful preop transexual" If he's brave he might even admit to being topped. And then things will change. And then the world will finally see how many of us admirers there really are...

Until then, increase the peace

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Didn't mean to misquote anyone just screwd up when removing all but the quote. However just because society says its so doesn't always mean it is.

sorry to be the dark cloud around anyone's silver lining, but in several states, Courts have invalidated marriages between men and post operative transsexuals. In other states, they have refused to permit post ops to adopt or ruled against them on custody issues, strictly because of their TS status.

Perhaps in time the so-called Dark Ages will be thought of as including our own.
Georg Christoph Lichtenberg
(1742 - 1799)


Felicia