Thought for the Day

Watching the proceedings of the House Committee on Jan 6 -I have watched all of it so far- I was struck yesterday by the outrageous John Eastman, who managed to maintain the fiction that Pence had legal means to either discount the electoral college votes or suspend the process of certification even when he knew it was, well, fiction -the question being, how did this man ever get into the Oval Office?

He strikes me, along with Sidney Powell and Lin Wood, as an ambulance chaser, though he clerked for the elderly and portentously slow Judge Luttig, but I then I assume lots of other lawyers have. From what others say, Eastman stayed in place because he was telling Trump what the idiot wanted to hear, given Trump has never read the Constitution and doesn't understand it even when it is explained to him, but how did he get there? As it appears Rudolph Giuliani is a partner in this crime, was it Giuliani who brought Eastman into the process? Looks like they are both going to need some special counsel, IF the DoJ finally decides to prosecute.

As for Cry-Baby Trump, he is apparently mad at being ignored by the Committee and wants to appear. Even Eastman I think would say, 'Don't think that's a good idea, boss' -but it would be fun to watch, no? If it were not for the very real violence with which Trump is associated -he has brought more violence into public life than any other President- this would have been a farce. But it's deadly serious.

Don't know if Saul could have done a better job than Eastman, but maybe Better Call 911 on these guys.

Trump lawyer John Eastman sought presidential pardon after January 6 | January 6 hearings | The Guardian

One other thing -what's this thing for Prayer Americans have? Who cares what prayers are said, as if in citing them the public are moved to tears on the side of Republicans who for 4 years before Jan 6 were 'in the loop' as far as Trump goes?

We have a problem in the UK with the Empire, as few people can agree on how to define it, judge it, remember it, or teach it. Compare our problem, which at best means removing statues of people locals know little or nothing about, to the Rape State of Texas, as a warning of where this segment of the US is heading to- it may not become law, but is redolent of the times in which extremists are moving from the fringe to the centre ground of politics-

"Racial justice advocates on Thursday denounced a proposal by a panel of Texas educators to describe slavery as "involuntary relocation" in the state's revised second-grade social studies curriculum as part of an effort to comply with a law restricting how the United States' history of white supremacy is taught.
The Texas Tribune reports a working group of nine educators proposed the change as the Texas State Board of Education considers curriculum changes in the wake of the passage of what critics have called the "white discomfort" law."
Texas Panel Denounced Over Attempt to Rebrand Slavery as 'Involuntary Relocation' (commondreams.org)

You know, I can't help but to think this some sort of poetic justice.

NYC man accused of smearing feces on woman’s face has own face scalded with boiling water in jail


www.yahoo.com/news/nyc-man-accused-smearing-feces-130655670.html

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Originally Posted by blackchubby38

You know, I can't help but to think this some sort of poetic justice.

NYC man accused of smearing feces on woman’s face has own face scalded with boiling water in jail


www.yahoo.com/news/nyc-man-accused-smearing-feces-130655670.html

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Completely agree it is.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Watching the proceedings of the House Committee on Jan 6 -I have watched all of it so far- I was struck yesterday by the outrageous John Eastman, who managed to maintain the fiction that Pence had legal means to either discount the electoral college votes or suspend the process of certification even when he knew it was, well, fiction -the question being, how did this man ever get into the Oval Office?

He strikes me, along with Sidney Powell and Lin Wood, as an ambulance chaser, though he clerked for the elderly and portentously slow Judge Luttig, but I then I assume lots of other lawyers have. From what others say, Eastman stayed in place because he was telling Trump what the idiot wanted to hear, given Trump has never read the Constitution and doesn't understand it even when it is explained to him, but how did he get there? As it appears Rudolph Giuliani is a partner in this crime, was it Giuliani who brought Eastman into the process? Looks like they are both going to need some special counsel, IF the DoJ finally decides to prosecute.

As for Cry-Baby Trump, he is apparently mad at being ignored by the Committee and wants to appear. Even Eastman I think would say, 'Don't think that's a good idea, boss' -but it would be fun to watch, no? If it were not for the very real violence with which Trump is associated -he has brought more violence into public life than any other President- this would have been a farce. But it's deadly serious.

Don't know if Saul could have done a better job than Eastman, but maybe Better Call 911 on these guys.

Trump lawyer John Eastman sought presidential pardon after January 6 | January 6 hearings | The Guardian

One other thing -what's this thing for Prayer Americans have? Who cares what prayers are said, as if in citing them the public are moved to tears on the side of Republicans who for 4 years before Jan 6 were 'in the loop' as far as Trump goes?

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The Attention Seeking Orange Clown can throw all the tantrums he wants,but the January 6 Committee will be better off not having him appear before them and turning the hearings into political theater and clown show.

Has anyone tried to calculate the number of lawyers who have done work for Trump? He is well known for his obsession with litigation -not quite the same as an obsession with the law, as much of his litigation seems designed to deter the process of law- but often when I browse stories about his latest excursion into the court, the name of the lawyer is new.

Has he broken an American record?

What do Americans want?

Trump says the Federal Dept of Education should be scrapped if the curriculum is going to teach children to 'hate America', to suggest or dictate that Men can be Pregnant, that it is a 'Marxist' project. Just as one -I forget if he was a Senator or a House Rep- said it was right to 'return' Abortion to the States so they can decide.

But then a Referendum in Kansas showed people want Abortion in their State. And is it the case that American parents do not want their children to be taught what Slavery was, how it began, developed and ended? Do parents in the former Confederate States want their children to be taught that the South never surrendered, that Appomattox was 'fake news'? Do most Americans want to reverse the right of same-sex couples to marry?

In reality, what has been happening is a Rejection of Federal Govt by Republican States, and further, an attempt to diminish or render irrelevant both houses of Congress -States Rights becoming State Power or State Autonomy. This apparent rejection of Federalism can be found in statements by Senator Graham, assuming his views to be worth reporting.

But the key question is, if Americans, individuals or parents, are asked directly what they want, would it expose Republicans holding power in office, but minority views on policy? This would mean, in effect, a tyranny of the minority in those States where, for example a Republican controlled legislature is enforcing laws the citizens don't want. Or in some cases I guess people's views may be even more extreme.

Should every State hold referendums on policy?

Lindsey Graham argues gay marriage rights should be left up to states (yahoo.com)

Just when you thought the House of Representatives can not sustain another ignorant jerk to sit alongside LB and MTG, along comes Bo, and apparently it is not satire...

This Interview With A Guy Running For Congress Who Thinks 'Banana Republic' Refers To The Store Feels Like An 'SNL' Skit | Digg

Let's give a rousing shout to Scott Morrison, the wizard of Oz.

'I am Scott Morrison, Prime Minister of Australia, and Minister of Home Affairs, and Minister of Health and Resources, and Minister of Finance, and the Treasury.'

Scott is a bloke, mate. And he has five brains. Where is he now?

What strikes me about this and similar reports, is the lack of compassion the State authorities have for the woman in distress. Are they Christians? It's just so horrible.

Louisiana woman faces ‘horrifically cruel’ abortion choice over fetus missing skull | Abortion | The Guardian

Whereas this Republican does have compassion. But what may be most important about the case of a pregnant 19-year, is that a serious medical decision is in reality being made by lawyers, not doctors. How very American!

GOP State Rep. Rethinks Abortion Bans After Hearing Doctor's Story (yahoo.com)

Is this not a clear violation of the Oath of Office he has taken? Are there not means by which this man can be thrown out of office or even prosecuted?

"In a December 2020 meeting with Christian nationalists, State Sen. Doug Mastriano prayed Congress would "rise up" on January 6 and "disregard" Pennsylvania's election results, according to a video published by Rolling Stone on Friday.Mastriano — the Republican candidate for governor in Pennsylvania — participated in a Zoom meeting held by Jim Garlow, a former megachurch pastor associated with the New Apostolic Reformation, a far-right Christian movement. According to Rolling Stone, Garlow believes the Bible should dictate how the US government works, a Christian nationalist principle."
Pennsylvania governor candidate Doug Mastriano prayed Trump would 'seize the power' ahead of January 6, video shows (yahoo.com)

Are there no laws in Texas and Florida that govern the Governors use or abuse of taxpayer's money? Looks like abuse to me.

"On Wednesday night, DeSantis ordered a pair of charter flights—booked using $12 million of taxpayer money—to carry around 50 migrants to Martha’s Vineyard, a posh Massachusetts island that doesn’t have proper facilities to care for a migrant influx. The migrants involved were flown from Texas to Florida, where they spent no time on the ground, before being flown north, NPR reported.
...
DeSantis’ stunt reportedly cost $12 million—more than $200,000 per migrant—while Texas has spent $14 million since Sept. 7 on busing migrants".
Texas Gov Greg Abbott Dumps Busloads of Migrants in Front of Vice President Kamala Harris’ D.C. Residence (thedailybeast.com)

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Are there no laws in Texas and Florida that govern the Governors use or abuse of taxpayer's money? Looks like abuse to me.

"On Wednesday night, DeSantis ordered a pair of charter flights—booked using $12 million of taxpayer money—to carry around 50 migrants to Martha’s Vineyard, a posh Massachusetts island that doesn’t have proper facilities to care for a migrant influx. The migrants involved were flown from Texas to Florida, where they spent no time on the ground, before being flown north, NPR reported.
...
DeSantis’ stunt reportedly cost $12 million—more than $200,000 per migrant—while Texas has spent $14 million since Sept. 7 on busing migrants".
Texas Gov Greg Abbott Dumps Busloads of Migrants in Front of Vice President Kamala Harris’ D.C. Residence (thedailybeast.com)

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Whatever it is, something has to be done about the migrant situation at the border. These are just a collection of the headlines about the three cities that Governor Abbott has been sending busloads of migrants to over the past few months:

NYC:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/14/n...nyc-adams.html

nypost.com/2022/09/14/city-council-leaders-back-mayor-adams-push-to-put-migrants-to-work-in-nyc/

Washington D.C.:

www.cnn.com/2022/08/12/politics/bowser-pentagon-migrants-assistance/index.html

Chicago:

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-14/illinois-issues-emergency-disaster-order-to-help-asylum-seekers

www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/asylum-seekers-bused-to-chicago-now-being-sent-to-other-illinois-communities/article_6e7a99d0-3074-11ed-8f83-e3ebb4692694.html

On the one hand you make a fair point about border control, to which there are numerous complex solutions which cost money, but also require a degree of diplomacy with the states of Central and Southern America that I don't think the Biden Administration has focused enough attention on.

But consider the view that as Texas, by GDP is the second richest State in your Union, why spend millions of tax dollars busing migrants out of the State, when it can fund their residence in Texas? When the migrants were dumped in Martha's Vineyard, the locals provided food, clothing and shelter. Is Texas incapable of providing the same?

And this from Pope Gregory who wanted to replace the Constitution of the USA with the Holy Bible?

"But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”
Luke 14:13-14

"If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you."
Leviticus 25:35.

If the USA is to become a Christian Theocracy, is it too much to expect Americans to behave like Christians?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-BC6Fdb-p4Not surprised at all that Arizona Sinema said that she and Senate Minority and Kentucky Mitch McConnell share the same values,because that's her friend and has voted and sided with Republicans more than her own party ,including keeping the filibuster in place and receiving handshakes from Republicans. Krysten Sinema is really a republican masquerading a democrat,who doesn't give a damn about the constituents that voted for her.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/04/u...documents.html Not surprised at all the MAGA King Donald Trump asked the US Supreme Court to intervene in review of Top Secret Records that he illegally took to Mar a largo,that were seized by the FBI,because he thinks that all because he put three justices on the Supreme Court,that they are going to rule in his favors and let him the records that don't belong to him back,but he's going to be in for a very rude awakening.

There's a major difference between the Democrats and the Republicans when it comes to asking for donations from Voters. The Democrats beg and plead and use celebrities to ask for donations,meanwhile the Republicans use divisive headlines to ask for donations. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...raising-emails

How about this from Republican Jim Marchant who wants to be Secretary of State in Nevada -

"Addressing the crowd of Trump supporters, Marchant then went on to pledge that he and his band of election deniers would secure a Trump victory in two years’ time.“When I’m secretary of state of Nevada, we are going to fix it, and when my coalition of secretary of state candidates around the country get elected we’re going to fix the whole country, and President Trump is going to be president again in 2024."
Nevada secretary of state contender pledges to secure Trump victory in 2024 (yahoo.com)

In other words, Nevada, your votes don't count, because we are counting the votes, and Trump has won!

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Originally Posted by KnightHawk 2.0

There's a major difference between the Democrats and the Republicans when it comes to asking for donations from Voters. The Democrats beg and plead and use celebrities to ask for donations,meanwhile the Republicans use divisive headlines to ask for donations. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...raising-emails

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When a Billionaire pleads for money you wonder why even his supporters don't scratch their heads and say 'Ain't you got any?'.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

When a Billionaire pleads for money you wonder why even his supporters don't scratch their heads and say 'Ain't you got any?'.

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Completely agree,Billionaires should be using their own money to pay for and run their campaigns,instead of begging and pleading to their supporters for money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stavros

How about this from Republican Jim Marchant who wants to be Secretary of State in Nevada -

"Addressing the crowd of Trump supporters, Marchant then went on to pledge that he and his band of election deniers would secure a Trump victory in two years’ time.“When I’m secretary of state of Nevada, we are going to fix it, and when my coalition of secretary of state candidates around the country get elected we’re going to fix the whole country, and President Trump is going to be president again in 2024."
Nevada secretary of state contender pledges to secure Trump victory in 2024 (yahoo.com)

In other words, Nevada, your votes don't count, because we are counting the votes, and Trump has won!

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Jim Marchant is another delusional candidate living in an alternate world and parroting the Big Lie.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/12/polit...xes/index.html

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Originally Posted by broncofan

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/12/polit...xes/index.html

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Can Trump's lawyers be held accountable for false statements and even be struck off or have their licences to practice taken away?

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Originally Posted by Stavros

On the one hand you make a fair point about border control, to which there are numerous complex solutions which cost money, but also require a degree of diplomacy with the states of Central and Southern America that I don't think the Biden Administration has focused enough attention on.

But consider the view that as Texas, by GDP is the second richest State in your Union, why spend millions of tax dollars busing migrants out of the State, when it can fund their residence in Texas? When the migrants were dumped in Martha's Vineyard, the locals provided food, clothing and shelter. Is Texas incapable of providing the same?

And this from Pope Gregory who wanted to replace the Constitution of the USA with the Holy Bible?

"But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”
Luke 14:13-14

"If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you."
Leviticus 25:35.

If the USA is to become a Christian Theocracy, is it too much to expect Americans to behave like Christians?

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Well the Biden Administration did tell the migrants not to come. Obviously they didn't get the message.

If the Biden Administration and further more Congress don't want to address the border crisis with the countries of Central and South America and expect local governments to provide food, clothing, and shelter to migrants while many of them go through the asylum process, the least the federal government can is send financial aid to the those governments before their resources run out.

New York Faces Record Homelessness as Mayor Declares Migrant Emergency

http://https://www.nytimes.com/2022/...-response.html


Yes Texas is the second richest state in the union. But at the last count about 2 million migrants have crossed the border this year and even they can't be expected to provide for that many people, some of whom won't be able to work at least for 6 months. Considering the fact that NYC has only been sent 19,000 of them, I think its safe to assume that a majority of that number are still residing in Texas and are being provided for.

Look I have empathy for anyone who wants to come to this country in search of a better a life. But the situation as it stands now is unsustainable. There is only so much any local government can do before they reaches a breaking point.

For example:

Migrants bused to NYC hotel going door-to-door asking for help

http://https://nypost.com/2022/10/09...king-for-help/

Or:

‘It’s scary for me’: Struggle of migrant kids in NYC schools with few Spanish speakers

https://nypost.com/2022/10/13/migran...gual-teachers/

But I think the Biden Administration finally got the message:

Gov. Kathy Hochul, Mayor Eric Adams laud Biden administration's move to limit migrants crossing Southern border

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news...uthern-border/

Thanks for your response and the links. I wonder what Kamala Harris has been doing, as I understand Biden tasked her with Border issues. I am therefore disappointed that there seems to be no dialogue or policy framework between the US and Central American states to reach a rational means of reducing immigration, though it might be that crime and disorder is so endemic in Honduras, for example, that even the Govt can't deal with it, or may be part of the problem.

That so many people want to leave oil-rich Venezuela is a damning indictment of the incompetence of that Govt, though I doubt even a rapprochement with Maduro would help as, again, it is the endemic corruption and bad government that has infiltrated so many levels of society that Exit, rather than either Voice or Loyalty is the option, to borrow Hirschmann's terms.

That said, and I take your point about Texas, I think the trafficking of migrants is a cruel, and expensive stunt, and distracts from the need for a more holistic policy. Should every State in the Union agree to take a proportion of migrants? Would that lessen the burden for 'frontline' States, or run into trouble if certain States refuse to participate?

I should also point out the UK doesn't have a coherent policy either, with Asylum Seekers -not migrants- being sent for processing to Rwanda, a policy so cockeyed and expensive one wonders who created it, and if they could be asked to pay for it. The link does explain the policy in some detail, but is worth reading for all that.
Q&A: The UK’s policy to send asylum seekers to Rwanda - Migration Observatory - The Migration Observatory (ox.ac.uk)

Herschel Walker makes a fool of himself during last night's debate againist Raphael Warnock,by flashing a police badge claiming that he worked for law enforcement,and was chastised by the moderator for pulling that stunt. With all of his skeletons and despicable things being revealed about him,the Republicans are still defending and standing by him,but i am not surprised at all,because this is who the Republican Party has become over the last 7 years,when they let embraced someone who is as toxic as the Maga King Donald Trump is. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/14/u...mentsContainer

I was getting my car inspected about ten miles East of Pittsburgh in what is Trump country. While sitting in the small waiting room wearing my mask a woman engaged me in conversation about her newest pet conspiracy theories. She was reading a book that claimed every part of the food supply chain was damaging her health, from real concerns about antibiotic use in livestock feed, to unreasonable concerns about the pasteurization of milk. She told me she drives 60 miles to get her beef a particular way, drinks raw milk which the fda and cdc says is dangerous and leads to lots of foodborne illness, and eats eggs that come right out of a chicken's butt (I didn't argue with her about where the eggs come from).

When I responded to be nice and not disagree with anything she was saying she told me she couldn't hear me because of my mask, which she said does nothing but is good if it makes me feel better. Anyhow, I went into the parking lot and walked around for an hour and a half, and took my car home. People seem to be hooked on scientific sophistry and anti-establishment crackery. Had I told her the FDA and CDC think drinking unpasteurized milk is dangerous it would only make her guzzle more of it.

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Originally Posted by broncofan

People seem to be hooked on scientific sophistry and anti-establishment crackery. Had I told her the FDA and CDC think drinking unpasteurized milk is dangerous it would only make her guzzle more of it.

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Stay safe, for The Angle of Death is coming, and coming for you. Do watch the video, it's a hoot.

Pro-Trump rally speaker says that 'angel of death' is coming for Lindsey Graham and Democrats before end of the year | Business Insider India

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Originally Posted by broncofan

I was getting my car inspected about ten miles East of Pittsburgh in what is Trump country. While sitting in the small waiting room wearing my mask a woman engaged me in conversation about her newest pet conspiracy theories. She was reading a book that claimed every part of the food supply chain was damaging her health, from real concerns about antibiotic use in livestock feed, to unreasonable concerns about the pasteurization of milk. She told me she drives 60 miles to get her beef a particular way, drinks raw milk which the fda and cdc says is dangerous and leads to lots of foodborne illness, and eats eggs that come right out of a chicken's butt (I didn't argue with her about where the eggs come from).

When I responded to be nice and not disagree with anything she was saying she told me she couldn't hear me because of my mask, which she said does nothing but is good if it makes me feel better. Anyhow, I went into the parking lot and walked around for an hour and a half, and took my car home. People seem to be hooked on scientific sophistry and anti-establishment crackery. Had I told her the FDA and CDC think drinking unpasteurized milk is dangerous it would only make her guzzle more of it.

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There are a lot of people who spurn large-scale farming for various reasons, including environmental and animal welfare. The problem is that avoiding the supply chain makes feeding yourself an expensive and inconvenient process. There's no way the world can feed itself without large-scale farming.

I guess this particular conspiracy only harms those who believe it, but the problem is that once people start to believe in government/corporate/media conspiracies they reject the idea of any authoritative source of knowledge. Ironically, they can then start to believe things they read in murky corners of the internet, without considering what those people's motives might be or how their claims have been tested.

It's amazing how many people assert as fact that surgical masks do nothing. Do they think medical staff have been acting out some form of pointless cosplay all these years?

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Originally Posted by filghy2

once people start to believe in government/corporate/media conspiracies they reject the idea of any authoritative source of knowledge.

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I agree with you that this is a big problem but I think an additional problem is that people don't understand that experts provide a benefit because they can condense a complex subject but what they say is verifiable. They are choosing to "trust" or "take the word" of people with no expertise over people with expertise but with even a little bit of concern trust is not necessary.

A layperson can go to the cdc website and see the statistics on foodborne disease in those drinking unpasteurized milk. They can learn how a controlled trial works and even if they can't calculate confidence intervals can look at treatment arm v placebo for side effects and effectiveness. They don't want to because they're hooked on believing that the establishment is lying to them.

As for masks one reason they get away with that is because testing them has not been easy. The attempts at controlled studies I've seen have showed them to be effective, though imperfectly.

It's too late for the Republicans to denounce the MAGA King Donald Trump now,because for over 6 years they enabled his eradicate and despicable behavior,and let him abused his power and do whatever he wanted,and let him get away with it. And had two opportunities move on from him,by impeaching and indicting him,but didn't do it because they were afraid of losing their seats in the House Of Representatives and Senate.

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Originally Posted by KnightHawk 2.0

It's too late for the Republicans to denounce the MAGA King Donald Trump now,because for over 6 years they enabled his eradicate and despicable behavior,and let him abused his power and do whatever he wanted,and let him get away with it. And had two opportunities move on from him,by impeaching and indicting him,but didn't do it because they were afraid of losing their seats in the House Of Representatives and Senate.

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They won't bother denouncing him, because that would require admitting fault. They'll just start backing DeSantis and ignore him. (But they'll still block attempts to hold Trump accountable as much as they can.)

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Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo

They won't bother denouncing him, because that would require admitting fault. They'll just start backing DeSantis and ignore him. (But they'll still block attempts to hold Trump accountable as much as they can.)

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Completely agree the Republicans won't bother to denounce the MAGA King Donald Trump,because they'll be admitting that they are at fault for enabling his eradicate behavior,and also agree they'll start backing Ron DeSantis,while blocking attempts to hold Donald Trump accountable.

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Originally Posted by KnightHawk 2.0

Completely agree the Republicans won't bother to denounce the MAGA King Donald Trump,because they'll be admitting that they are at fault for enabling his eradicate behavior,and also agree they'll start backing Ron DeSantis,while blocking attempts to hold Donald Trump accountable.

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Exactly, because it is not about policies, or principles, only power. All those Republicans who loathe and detest Trump had the opportunity to get rid of him in the second Impeachment trial, and chose power over principle, because they don't have any. They can at one and the same time dismiss Trump and embrace DeSantis, or Haley, or anyone if they think they will win. And what do they do with this power when they get it? Enrich themselves, take away citizen's rights, and fail at the key issues that concern people -crime, education, housing, the border, etc. Is it any wonder people become disillusioned with politicians?

A few weeks ago someone in the Republican Party posted a tweet celebrating their three cultural heroes; "Kanye. Elon. Trump". That one doesn't look like it will age well.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Exactly, because it is not about policies, or principles, only power. All those Republicans who loathe and detest Trump had the opportunity to get rid of him in the second Impeachment trial, and chose power over principle, because they don't have any. They can at one and the same time dismiss Trump and embrace DeSantis, or Haley, or anyone if they think they will win. And what do they do with this power when they get it? Enrich themselves, take away citizen's rights, and fail at the key issues that concern people -crime, education, housing, the border, etc. Is it any wonder people become disillusioned with politicians?

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Completely agree that it isn't about policies or principles,and the Republicans had another opportunity to move on from Donald Trump doing the Second Impeachment Trial by impeaching and convicting him,and prevent him from running for office. but chose party over country. No not at all,because politicians will say what people want to hear to get elected and go back on what they promised their constituents.

I think it has been underestimated how much damage right-wing media has done to public health in the United States and around the world. Polio was nearly eradicated because of the efforts of Sabin, Salk, Koprowski, and many other great scientists. In the last couple of years we saw an unprecedented effort to create vaccines in this country, with unprecedented speed and success in such a short timeline and we've now seen an almost equally unprecedented effort to vilify vaccine makers, to vilify public health experts, and to spread lies about covid and vaccines. What will vaccination rates be for polio and measles in the future? What will they be for emergent diseases given this campaign of propaganda against the most effective tool we have for priming our immune systems against infectious diseases and saving lives?

It has taken several years to demonstrate to many of these folks that hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin do not treat covid. How many studies did they demand be conducted? Republicans used up hours of airtime promoting ivermectin, a drug that was not better than placebo in clinical trials, when paxlovid, which had an 89% effectiveness against severe disease, was available. Ignorance kills. Their ignorance did kill tens of thousands of Americans and will continue to.

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Originally Posted by broncofan

I think it has been underestimated how much damage right-wing media has done to public health in the United States and around the world. Polio was nearly eradicated because of the efforts of Sabin, Salk, Koprowski, and many other great scientists. In the last couple of years we saw an unprecedented effort to create vaccines in this country, with unprecedented speed and success in such a short timeline and we've now seen an almost equally unprecedented effort to vilify vaccine makers, to vilify public health experts, and to spread lies about covid and vaccines. What will vaccination rates be for polio and measles in the future? What will they be for emergent diseases given this campaign of propaganda against the most effective tool we have for priming our immune systems against infectious diseases and saving lives?

It has taken several years to demonstrate to many of these folks that hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin do not treat covid. How many studies did they demand be conducted? Republicans used up hours of airtime promoting ivermectin, a drug that was not better than placebo in clinical trials, when paxlovid, which had an 89% effectiveness against severe disease, was available. Ignorance kills. Their ignorance did kill tens of thousands of Americans and will continue to.

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I came across a useful argument today -if one person says it is raining outside, and another says the sun is shining, can both be right? The solution is to look out of the window, but for some time now, allegedly for reasons of 'balance', climate change deniers are allowed to make claims which are the opposite of climate scientists. Do vaccines work, or do they not work? The answer is there, in recorded history, yet anti-vaxx voices can insist that they have the data to prove their point, or in some cases do not but 'are convinced' they are right. If someone tells you masks don't work, ask why doctors and nurses in an opeating theatre wear them- should they dispense with the masks and gowns and operate in jeans and a t-shirt?

To be contrary is fundamental to the agenda -Democrats are wrong, on taxes, welfare, immigration -indeed, wrong about everything, so whatever they say must be depicted as wrong, and it doesn't even matter if they are wrong, because there is no alternative other than to swing 100% the other way and say Republicans are right, when most people, even those who are a bit dumb, know the truth is never that easy.

Trump made it easy, because there is only one way of looking at things- his view is the only view. The tragedy is as you say it, in the actual experience of pregnant women denied an abortion they need, not want. The corollary of this is that those Republicans who insist on a woman carrying a pregnancy to full term, even if the foetus is not viable for medical reasons, are inflicting a form of cruelty on that woman that would be a crime in any other context, and I think this has repulsed a lot of people.

But consider who else has opposed Polio vaccines -the Taliban and the Haqqani Network in Pakistan, the same people who claim vaccines exist to sterilize their women, a plot by the evil West. If the media can stop fisting the truth by giving equal weight to right and wrong arguments, and clearly put the Republicans and anti-Vaxx campaigners in the arms of the Taliban, then I think, or hope, we can all move on from the damage you so identify as a genuine threat to life.

Not surprised at all by the MAGA King Donald Trump announcement that he's running for President in 2024 ,because he wants too prevent Ron DeSantis and other Republicans from challenging him in a primary,and thinks that it will prevent Attorney General Merrick Garland from pressing charges and prosecuting him for the January 6th Attack on the US Capitol and stealing classified documents that he took to Mar-a-largo and thinks he's above the law,and his enablers will defend him and actions. He and his enablers are going to be in for a very rude awakening. https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-whit...ry?id=92820500